State Highway 290 Expansion

[KinkaidAlum]

Dr. Food and Chan nailed it. Follow the money.

Additionally, what good is commuter rail without the supporting urban network to go along with it?

[TheNiche]

Follow the money.

No, you follow the money.

If you or Dr. Food can bring any evidence of financial impropriety to light, that's something I'd really like to see. I'm sure that there are plenty of others that'd like to take some shots at Culberson or any of his compatriots on Capitol Hill, as well.

So, are you guys merely speculating libelously, or are you coming from an informed position?

[RedScare]

No, you follow the money.

If you or Dr. Food can bring any evidence of financial impropriety to light, that's something I'd really like to see. I'm sure that there are plenty of others that'd like to take some shots at Culberson or any of his compatriots on Capitol Hill, as well.

So, are you guys merely speculating libelously, or are you coming from an informed position?

It is quite amusing reading your zealous defense of Mr. Culberson, while remembering your attacks on other politicians and government agencies.

Carry on.

[TheNiche]

It is quite amusing reading your zealous defense of Mr. Culberson, while remembering your attacks on other politicians and government agencies.

Carry on.

My attacks are not unfounded circumstantial ad hominems.

And I don't like all of what Culberson does...actually, I really don't understand the necessity or value of commuter rail as opposed to P&R service. I think it is a waste of money and I oppose it for reasons I've stated at length over and over on this forum. That doesn't mean on the one hand that there isn't a method to Culberson's apparent madness (by which I'm referring to his track record), or on the other hand that he's engaged in some kind of financial impropriety. From where I sit, he does seem to pass the sniff test. Having said that, I'd very much welcome evidence to the contrary.

[RedScare]

Perhaps to you your attacks seem fair. To others, not so much. The fact is, you, like everyone else (including me), filter the relative worth and integrity of politicians and government agencies through your own political filter. If you largely agree with their political slant, you find them to be largely ethical. If you do not, you find them to be sleazy, unethical or incompetent. Your opinion that John Culberson is on the up and up is largely based on your agreement with his political leanings. That is fine. However, to suggest that others are unfairly attacking Culberson, while implying or outright stating that you never do so, is laughable.

The fact is, they merely said follow the money. You responded that Culberson is following the wishes of his constituents. Even if that was all there was to it, he is STILL following the money...only in this case, it would be the money from his constituents.

BTW, your equating "follow the money" with "financial impropriety" is changing the argument. Being influenced by campaign contributions is not illegal, or even necessarily unethical.

[TheNiche]

Perhaps to you your attacks seem fair. To others, not so much. The fact is, you, like everyone else (including me), filter the relative worth and integrity of politicians and government agencies through your own political filter. If you largely agree with their political slant, you find them to be largely ethical. If you do not, you find them to be sleazy, unethical or incompetent. Your opinion that John Culberson is on the up and up is largely based on your agreement with his political leanings. That is fine. However, to suggest that others are unfairly attacking Culberson, while implying or outright stating that you never do so, is laughable.

To that end, they're welcome to call me out on any ad hominems I might throw into an argument. That's not going to be remarkably common, however, because as far as I'm concerned, anyone who uses that approach to try and win an argument is only exemplifying that they cannot win by reason alone, and I don't want to be that guy. It'd be a personal embarrassment.

There's also a very good reason why I mostly just argue issues, concepts and ideas, rather than the processes by which specific individuals in government might carry them out. Talking about individual politicians gets very frustrating because they say what they want their constituencies to hear rather than what they themselves think. It's all a power game, and it's hard for an outside observer to know who is really going to be on your side and when.

The fact is, they merely said follow the money. You responded that Culberson is following the wishes of his constituents. Even if that was all there was to it, he is STILL following the money...only in this case, it would be the money from his constituents.

To be clear on where I'm coming from, Dr. Food made the accusation that Culberson must be getting money from deep-pocketed entities (not necessarily constituents) that stood to benefit from construction of the highway or commuter rail. KinkaidAlum then stated that Dr. Food nailed it and then said to follow the money.

[KinkaidAlum]

Niche-

You're a very capable person. Just do a search on-line and you'll see a lot of dots that need to be connected like the following;

Q: What do the National Association of Realtors, National Association of Home Builders, National Auto Dealers Association, Michael Stevens Interest (suburban apt. builders), Williams Brothers Construction, Walter P. Moore and Associates, Tribble + Stephens, Weekley Properties, Association of Builders and Contractors, KBR, JGI Outdoor Advertising, and Weingarten Realty Investors all have in common?

A: These groups have all given enough money from their PACs to be listed in the all time top 100 donors to John Culberson.

[TheNiche]

Niche-

You're a very capable person. Just do a search on-line and you'll see a lot of dots that need to be connected like the following;

Q: What do the National Association of Realtors, National Association of Home Builders, National Auto Dealers Association, Michael Stevens Interest (suburban apt. builders), Williams Brothers Construction, Walter P. Moore and Associates, Tribble + Stephens, Weekley Properties, Association of Builders and Contractors, KBR, JGI Outdoor Advertising, and Weingarten Realty Investors all have in common?

A: These groups have all given enough money from their PACs to be listed in the all time top 100 donors to John Culberson.

I don't see much evidence of anything nefarious going on as it pertains to commuter rail. Actually, I'd think that the National Auto Dealers Association, Williams Brothers, JGI, Weingarten, and probably other of his campaign donors would prefer a highway-only solution.

Even if there were a pro-commuter rail donor, accusations of impropriety are still only circumstantial ad hominems.

[plumber2]

Speaking about DrFood's comment, many businesses now have operations in northwest Harris (such as Hewlett-Packard on 290). Also the Pakistan consulate is over there. In other words, not everyone in NW Harris commutes long distances.

VicMan, look at a map. HP is on 249.

DrFood is just making observations and coming to a conclusion. I happen to have done the same about this congressman last year during the Hurricane Ike recovery. Culberson drove up to a group of National Guardsmen handing out supplies at Tully Stadium. Asking what he could do for them or if they needed anything, one of the guardsmen said that they could sure use a hamburger. Well, he got on the radio and made a big deal out of these men not being taken care of and acting as if something unpatriotic was going on. He pleaded on several radio stations for food to be brought to these first responders. The guy was clearly using this opportunity to campaign. BTW, so much food was delivered to these poor guys, they themselves became overwhelmed and the whole seen became disruptive to the task that they were directed to do. They had to ask some organization to come get all of the food and take it to some place that could use it, for they were not set up to hand out food. Relief organizers were confused as to how this happened. Thank John Culberson, the grandstander.

[CDeb]

So wait a minute, I'm confused.

Is commuter rail bad now because Culberson is supporting it?

That seems to be the tone I'm getting from some of these posts.

[KinkaidAlum]

No, commuter rail is an excellent PART of an overall transit plan that should also include highways, tollroads, improved local roads, expanded bus service AND light rail in the city.

And Niche, the point of my posting the large business PACs that support Culberson is to show why HE MIGHT have not been the biggest supporter of lightrail in the past. Additionally, I think many large builders also realize that communites out 290 face a huge disadvantage right now due to the traffic congestion. Being able to offer the region's first commuter rail would be a nice marketing tool...

[TheNiche]

No, commuter rail is an excellent PART of an overall transit plan that should also include highways, tollroads, improved local roads, expanded bus service AND light rail in the city.

I suspect that if you asked him, Culberson would voice agreement with that statement. Whether he means it is another matter, but insofar as he's backing that viewpoint in congress, what do you care?

And Niche, the point of my posting the large business PACs that support Culberson is to show why HE MIGHT have not been the biggest supporter of lightrail in the past. Additionally, I think many large builders also realize that communites out 290 face a huge disadvantage right now due to the traffic congestion. Being able to offer the region's first commuter rail would be a nice marketing tool...

He is a supporter of both light rail and commuter rail right now, even though his repeat donors would seem to have a stake in highway-only solutions to mobility issues. I'm sorry, but something isn't adding up here. Is it not plausible that Culberson is merely supporting something that his constituency wants? Or is it possible, perhaps, that the likes of KBR and Williams Brothers are going to donate lots of money to him regardless of his stance on rail-related projects in Houston, TX because he has a spot on the appropriations committee? There is insufficient evidence to conclude rail-related impropriety.

[Furious Jam]

I don't remember the public voting for a 290 expansion.

I sure hope our representatives will specifically exclude Houston from any more highway funding until we have a chance to vote on whether or not we want to expand 290.

I also hope our representatives make us vote TWICE just to be sure we really want it...and they better be specific about the EXACT alignment of 290!!!

Sorry, Culberson remains a jackass in my book. I still steam when I think about his campaign signs saying "John Culberson Keeps His Word."

This is so funny because it's so true. Culberson is a tool in every sense of the word. I've seen him in action. Even he doesn't believe anything that comes out of his mouth. It's whatever the party, whatever the big donors want. Some big land owner must think this is a good idea for whatever reason. Culberson is the mouthpiece of the top 1% and anyone who thinks differently is a fool.

[TechnoG]

Keep in mind the plan is to also have 2 lanes in each direction of Hempstead Managed Lanes out to SH 99.

Yes, I'm aware of this too. My vanpool will be using those lanes some day. I'm just glad I don't have to drive the main 290 commuter lanes now since we use the current HOV lane. But I'm worried that by the time this whole 290 project is completed, it will be somewhat outdated and still overcrowded.

[Trae]

Isn't there already a multi-page thread on this?

Edit: Yep, there is: http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...showtopic=20349

[plumber2]

This is so funny because it's so true. Culberson is a tool in every sense of the word. I've seen him in action. Even he doesn't believe anything that comes out of his mouth. It's whatever the party, whatever the big donors want. Some big land owner must think this is a good idea for whatever reason. Culberson is the mouthpiece of the top 1% and anyone who thinks differently is a fool.

So that means 99% of us don't have mouthpiece. It doesn't seem fair does it?

[totheskies]

So I'm still confused... I really couldn't care less for Culberson, but in regards to 290 improvements, let's ask ourselves a couple of key questions...

1) How many people live along this corridor?

2) Of the possible options, which one is the most feasible to relieve congestion and plan for the future of US 290?

- lane expansion alone

- lane expansion with the incorporation of HOT lanes and Park and Ride service

- lane expansion with the incorporation of HOT lanes, Park and Ride service and commuter rail

I pick the last one. With over a million people and growing, US 290 needs all of these commuting options. Park and Ride is great, but commuter rail in combination with P&R is much better. It's all about increasing the options for everyone.

[jfre81]

I think the question here is whether Culberson is generally supportive of rail now that it's pretty obvious that people are willing to ride a flawed light rail system that supposedly goes "nowhere" or is he doing this to butter somebody's bread?

Even if it's the latter it's quite an about-face on the whole subject, no?

[TheNiche]

So I'm still confused... I really couldn't care less for Culberson, but in regards to 290 improvements, let's ask ourselves a couple of key questions...

1) How many people live along this corridor?

2) Of the possible options, which one is the most feasible to relieve congestion and plan for the future of US 290?

- lane expansion alone

- lane expansion with the incorporation of HOT lanes and Park and Ride service

- lane expansion with the incorporation of HOT lanes, Park and Ride service and commuter rail

I pick the last one. With over a million people and growing, US 290 needs all of these commuting options. Park and Ride is great, but commuter rail in combination with P&R is much better. It's all about increasing the options for everyone.

The first question needs to be more specific. By "along the corridor", do you mean within walking distance, within a mile, within a few miles, or generally speaking that they live closer to 290 than any of the other spoke freeways that lead into the central city?

The second question is missing an option from the multiple choices. There ought to be the option for "lane expansion with the incorporation of HOT lanes and commuter rail. If there is commuter rail which links in to the Northwest Transit Center and to the downtown area, then I fail to see the benefit in duplicating service with P&R services. The two ought to be considered mutually exclusive alternatives. And that also begs the question, what can commuter rail do that P&R cannot? In fact, might P&R be superior to commuter rail in a number of ways--including not only the quality of service, but also cost?

[VicMan]

I know HP's actually on 249, but it is still a part of the greater northwest Harris County area, which is centered along 290. People work in the U.S. 290 area, so the area deserves transportation solutions as much as the inner city does. I was referring to the first paragraph of his first post in the thread.

VicMan, look at a map. HP is on 249.

DrFood is just making observations and coming to a conclusion. I happen to have done the same about this congressman last year during the Hurricane Ike recovery. Culberson drove up to a group of National Guardsmen handing out supplies at Tully Stadium. Asking what he could do for them or if they needed anything, one of the guardsmen said that they could sure use a hamburger. Well, he got on the radio and made a big deal out of these men not being taken care of and acting as if something unpatriotic was going on. He pleaded on several radio stations for food to be brought to these first responders. The guy was clearly using this opportunity to campaign. BTW, so much food was delivered to these poor guys, they themselves became overwhelmed and the whole seen became disruptive to the task that they were directed to do. They had to ask some organization to come get all of the food and take it to some place that could use it, for they were not set up to hand out food. Relief organizers were confused as to how this happened. Thank John Culberson, the grandstander.

[jfre81]

The second question is missing an option from the multiple choices. There ought to be the option for "lane expansion with the incorporation of HOT lanes and commuter rail.

You know, I was sitting here thinking we didn't have enough concrete in this city.

If there is commuter rail which links in to the Northwest Transit Center and to the downtown area, then I fail to see the benefit in duplicating service with P&R services. The two ought to be considered mutually exclusive alternatives. And that also begs the question, what can commuter rail do that P&R cannot? In fact, might P&R be superior to commuter rail in a number of ways--including not only the quality of service, but also cost?

I think the benefit is to not having to widen 290 every decade. Some people can drive, some people can ride P&R which could start serving some suburb-to-suburb routes like 290 to HP (just to give an example) as opposed to being centered around getting people from the burbs to someplace in the city like downtown or TMC.

Let me say this right now - I despise going to the NW side for anything. I have not been on 290 in about a year, and I don't miss it. IMO there is worse traffic there than anywhere else in the area. If we don't start getting alternatives to driving, that's what the whole city will be like, and suffice it to say it would suck.

[TheNiche]

I think the benefit is to not having to widen 290 every decade. Some people can drive, some people can ride P&R which could start serving some suburb-to-suburb routes like 290 to HP (just to give an example) as opposed to being centered around getting people from the burbs to someplace in the city like downtown or TMC.

I'm not really clear on what you're saying.

Is it that you believe that commuter rail is superior for service to inner city destinations because the alternative (P&R buses serving those locations) would congest the HOT lanes or otherwise divert a sufficient amount of traffic back onto 290 to require that it be rebuilt in only a couple of decades as opposed to some longer period of time?

To be perfectly clear, it strikes me as being a given that 290 will be rebuilt and expanded, and that an HOT facility will be built in conjunction with that project. Additionally, it strikes me as obvious that P&R or commuter rail may be built; however, I question whether these alternatives, built in conjunction, may be duplicating the same kind of service at a higher expense, making them mutually exclusive options. And if it is the case that only one or the other are viable, and not both, then which of them is the better technology?

[jfre81]

I'm not really clear on what you're saying.

Is it that you believe that commuter rail is superior for service to inner city destinations because the alternative (P&R buses serving those locations) would congest the HOT lanes or otherwise divert a sufficient amount of traffic back onto 290 to require that it be rebuilt in only a couple of decades as opposed to some longer period of time?

I'm talking about providing alternatives to the generally one-car, one-driver paradigm that has been the norm for this city

To be perfectly clear, it strikes me as being a given that 290 will be rebuilt and expanded, and that an HOT facility will be built in conjunction with that project. Additionally, it strikes me as obvious that P&R or commuter rail may be built; however, I question whether these alternatives, built in conjunction, may be duplicating the same kind of service at a higher expense, making them mutually exclusive options. And if it is the case that only one or the other are viable, and not both, then which of them is the better technology?

OK. So could there be commuter rail and a HOV/carpool/P&R lane in addition to the regular ones? I guess you're envisioning something like the new I-10.

I'm not looking for duplicating service necessarily. You might send more of the P&R routes to areas not served by rail yet, connecting the burbs similar to the way DART connects the ones in the Metroplex (except we would have buses). Suppose the lines that go from the NW transit center that go downtown start going, say, down Highway 6 or the Grand Parkway, or up toward the HP campus. This will probably require some cooperation with certain municipalities, HOAs but if gas spikes again you might find people much more cooperative allasudden

I'm thinking it would be sort of like what METRO did with the bus routes along the Main/Fannin corridors with the existing LRT line. Some of the stations along that like serve as hubs for bus routes going out from there into places not served by rail, so it can give them a connection. I do this with the 14 Hiram Clarke line to the TMC transit center, which is one such bus hub. Another one is the P&R at South Fannin. Maybe a version of that along with a commuter rail running along 290 is what we could see.

[musicman]

I think the benefit is to not having to widen 290 every decade. Some people can drive, some people can ride P&R which could start serving some suburb-to-suburb routes like 290 to HP (just to give an example) as opposed to being centered around getting people from the burbs to someplace in the city like downtown or TMC.

have you priced P&R in the last yr? i know the prices have increased dramatically to the point where riders are now driving. my supervisor said she quit taking it because for her the price has gone up more than 2x what she used to pay. she goes from cypress to clr lake and now currently drives because it is cheaper.

[TheNiche]

I'm talking about providing alternatives to the generally one-car, one-driver paradigm that has been the norm for this city

Actually, Houston is fairly well-regarded among urban economists for the ridiculously successful P&R and managed lane programs. In many respects, we've led the country in trying to create incentives for cost-effective suburban-to-urban mass transit. Granted, it isn't the coolest, most expensive, or high-profile solution. But it works!

OK. So could there be commuter rail and a HOV/carpool/P&R lane in addition to the regular ones? I guess you're envisioning something like the new I-10.

I'm not looking for duplicating service necessarily. You might send more of the P&R routes to areas not served by rail yet, connecting the burbs similar to the way DART connects the ones in the Metroplex (except we would have buses). Suppose the lines that go from the NW transit center that go downtown start going, say, down Highway 6 or the Grand Parkway, or up toward the HP campus. This will probably require some cooperation with certain municipalities, HOAs but if gas spikes again you might find people much more cooperative allasudden

I'm thinking it would be sort of like what METRO did with the bus routes along the Main/Fannin corridors with the existing LRT line. Some of the stations along that like serve as hubs for bus routes going out from there into places not served by rail, so it can give them a connection. I do this with the 14 Hiram Clarke line to the TMC transit center, which is one such bus hub. Another one is the P&R at South Fannin. Maybe a version of that along with a commuter rail running along 290 is what we could see.

I still don't really understand your reasoning, so lets isolate the issue.

Never mind that P&R service should be expanded to include more suburban locations. Whether we end up with P&R or commuter rail service to the inner-city destinations, we're going to agree about the need for suburb-to-suburb service, which presently does not exist.

The only destinations served by the four existing P&R locations along 290 are downtown, Greenway Plaza, and Uptown. Service to the Texas Medical Center is available, but only for those willing to transfer to light rail for the last segment of their trip. If commuter rail were implemented, it would eliminate the need for all existing P&R service. If P&R service is maintained to inner-city destinations, it eliminates the need for commuter rail. My question is whether P&R or commuter rail can better serve the inner-city destinations. Both is not an option.

have you priced P&R in the last yr? i know the prices have increased dramatically to the point where riders are now driving. my supervisor said she quit taking it because for her the price has gone up more than 2x what she used to pay. she goes from cypress to clr lake and now currently drives because it is cheaper.

How did she take P&R from Cypress to Clear Lake? That service isn't even offered.

[musicman]

How did she take P&R from Cypress to Clear Lake? That service isn't even offered.

yes it is. she went from cypress to downtown, got off the bus, walked over a block, and got on the outbound to clr lake.

[TheNiche]

yes it is. she went from cypress to downtown, got off the bus, walked over a block, and got on the outbound to clr lake.

Huh, I didn't even realize that they had outbound service in the mornings.

[musicman]

Huh, I didn't even realize that they had outbound service in the mornings.

all of them do. the buses have to go out and pick up passengers. but the price is cheaper going in the opposite direction of rush hr traffic.

[RedScare]

have you priced P&R in the last yr? i know the prices have increased dramatically to the point where riders are now driving. my supervisor said she quit taking it because for her the price has gone up more than 2x what she used to pay. she goes from cypress to clr lake and now currently drives because it is cheaper.

If everyone started driving, how come METRO is adding two buses to the Cypress P&R next week to relieve overcrowding?

http://www.ridemetro.org/SchedulesMaps/BusSched.aspx

[musicman]

If everyone started driving, how come METRO is adding two buses to the Cypress P&R next week to relieve overcrowding?

nowhere did i say everyone was driving. i will say though that my manager and another that were taking P&R no longer do because it is cheaper for each of them to drive.

EDIT: i definitely will get the prices she quoted me on tues. the amount of the increase was very surprising.