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Could Ferguson MO happen here?


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I honestly have no beef with the police having a few military weapons. Because we really don't have civilian militia's anymore it kind of makes a little since for someone to have it in case of an emergency. On the other had you don't want them having to much because then you literally have a standing army in your own town or city which is very alarming!

 

For insurrection we have the National Guard. We don't need police armed like military.

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For insurrection we have the National Guard. We don't need police armed like military.

 

This. Militarizing the police can only end badly, since they will want to use the new toys whenever possible. I see no reason to have a fully automatic rifle in every police car - that's what SWAT teams are for on the exceedingly rare occasions where something other than shotguns and pistols are required.

 

I am also getting tired of police officers referring to citizens as civilians. Unless the police officers are active duty military, they are civilians too.

 

As for the situation in Ferguson, the sort of unrest that occurred there doesn't happen instantly, but is the result of tension that has built up over time, and finally comes to a head due to some triggering event.

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voting, while never more pointless, has never been easier, amounting to a trip to the grocery store in the weeks leading up to an election.

 

I'm left to conclude that if the blacks of Ferguson don't bother to vote, it's because they understand what the simpletons in the media do not: most problems don't have political solutions. Would that they did.

 

With all due respect, you're flat wrong.  

 

Unlike Texas, early voting does not exist in Missouri; instead, you have to get away between 7 AM and 7 PM on a Tuesday - that's a pretty big ask for someone with a lower income job (likely hourly - IF they can get the time off, it's a hit straight to a pocketbook that's undoubtedly already stretched), and probably other pressing obligations, like feeding the kids and/or going to the second job. As with many other municipalities (including Houston), the local elections stand alone, decreasing turnout further. Institutional disenfranchisement like this is unlikely to change in a place where the statewide executive director of a major political party refers to a voter registration drive as "disgusting." 

 

From one of my earlier links: 

 

Turnout is especially low among Ferguson’s African American residents, however. In 2013, for example, just 6 percent of eligible black voters cast a ballot in Ferguson’s municipal elections, as compared to 17 percent of white voters.

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While police militarizing has seemingly gone over the top, when I see people rioting, looting and burning buildings I want to see the police use every means at their disposal to protect innocent business and property owners, which by the way I believe the police up there showed remarkable restraint in reacting to the violent perpetrators that are no better then terrorists.

 

The people in New York peacefully protesting the death of Eric Garner I have empathy for, I have none for the people of Ferguson.  

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With all due respect, you're flat wrong.  

 

Unlike Texas, early voting does not exist in Missouri; instead, you have to get away between 7 AM and 7 PM on a Tuesday - that's a pretty big ask for someone with a lower income job (likely hourly - IF they can get the time off, it's a hit straight to a pocketbook that's undoubtedly already stretched), and probably other pressing obligations, like feeding the kids and/or going to the second job. As with many other municipalities (including Houston), the local elections stand alone, decreasing turnout further. Institutional disenfranchisement like this is unlikely to change in a place where the statewide executive director of a major political party refers to a voter registration drive as "disgusting." 

 

From one of my earlier links: 

 

Turnout is especially low among Ferguson’s African American residents, however. In 2013, for example, just 6 percent of eligible black voters cast a ballot in Ferguson’s municipal elections, as compared to 17 percent of white voters.

 

You're kind.

I am amazed Missouri is so thoroughly unpoliticized; they certainly are missing a trick. (I knew I liked it! - though I haven't been there since we buried my grandparents more than thirty years ago ...)

 

It is (perhaps?) worth noting that, among young black men, the particular group most concerned, much as we might all like to identify with them in a radical-chic sort of way, in these fatal police altercations - having a job that prevented you from going to the poll, could be considered a bargain at twice the price.

 

Black men have significantly lower employment rates than other demographic groups, but this wasn't always the case.  In 1969, the employment rates for men between the ages of 20 and 24 were about 77 percent for blacks and 79 percent for whites.  By 2012, the employment rate for young black men dropped to less than 50 percent, while young white men were about 18 percentage points higher at almost 68 percent. 

 

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/cepr-blog/addressing-chronic-black-male-unemployment

 

One wonders about that mayor, those 5 white city councilmen, the 94% of the police department: what's in it for them, what ranks of society they are drawn from (not the creme de la creme, one suspects). The rewards don't seem very great, prompting the suspicion that they are drawn to the conflict, and are carrying their own anger, about other things. That's practically another class issue right there.

But not one that attracts much notice.

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This really has nothing to do with race, but the DOJ and the feds were there from day 1 to make it about race, including FBI rats like Al Sharpton.  So yes, this kind of chaos can happen in Houston, we have plenty of race baiters here (remember Trayvon protesters blocking 288 traffic), and anywhere in America.  Your government will be working hard to make sure that it does.  So when you're all out in the streets stealing and rioting (because you can't help yourself, you're all victims), our militarized police in Houston will be brought in as our saviors, put in place martial law, and maybe kill some people, definitely attack people violently and indiscriminately. 

 

 

 

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Houston has a tolerance feel about it although ethnic groups tend to live in clusters as opposed to full integration. Another thread mentioned the days Herman Short ran HPD during the 60s-70s. Had things not changed, this city would have a very different climate.

Herman Short ran his department like the stereotypical Alabama state ... In 1970, when several policemen were accused of belonging to the Ku Klux Klan, Short told ... The Houston Police Department had only a handful of black patrolmen, and ...

books.google.com/books?id=zCsEAAAAMBAJ

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One wonders about that mayor, those 5 white city councilmen, the 94% of the police department: what's in it for them, what ranks of society they are drawn from (not the creme de la creme, one suspects). The rewards don't seem very great, prompting the suspicion that they are drawn to the conflict, and are carrying their own anger, about other things. That's practically another class issue right there.

But not one that attracts much notice.

 

It would be nice to be able to return to a time when having a decent job wasn't such a stretch.  The $1.60 minimum wage in 1969 would now be worth $10.50.  Henry Ford was excoriated for raising his workers' wages (granted, with all sorts of paternalistic oversight), but the idea was making those workers able to buy the cars they were building.

 

As far as the cop in question, his previous department was disbanded, largely because of tensions between the almost all white department and the almost all black community.

 

This really has nothing to do with race, but the DOJ and the feds were there from day 1 to make it about race, including FBI rats like Al Sharpton.  So yes, this kind of chaos can happen in Houston, we have plenty of race baiters here (remember Trayvon protesters blocking 288 traffic), and anywhere in America.  Your government will be working hard to make sure that it does.  So when you're all out in the streets stealing and rioting (because you can't help yourself, you're all victims), our militarized police in Houston will be brought in as our saviors, put in place martial law, and maybe kill some people, definitely attack people violently and indiscriminately. 

 

Wow. What color is the sky in your world?

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Herman Short was a bigot  ahole. Thank god he's still not around. 

 

Houston has a tolerance feel about it although ethnic groups tend to live in clusters as opposed to full integration. Another thread mentioned the days Herman Short ran HPD during the 60s-70s. Had things not changed, this city would have a very different climate.

Herman Short ran his department like the stereotypical Alabama state ... In 1970, when several policemen were accused of belonging to the Ku Klux Klan, Short told ... The Houston Police Department had only a handful of black patrolmen, and ...

books.google.com/books?id=zCsEAAAAMBAJ

 

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While police militarizing has seemingly gone over the top, when I see people rioting, looting and burning buildings I want to see the police use every means at their disposal to protect innocent business and property owners, which by the way I believe the police up there showed remarkable restraint in reacting to the violent perpetrators that are no better then terrorists.

 

The people in New York peacefully protesting the death of Eric Garner I have empathy for, I have none for the people of Ferguson.  

 

1. The abusive police response to peaceful protests created an unstable situation where looters and rioters prospered.

2. Your comment that you have no empathy for the people of Ferguson is a disgusting smear of many peaceful protesters who had nothing to do with rioting or looting.

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This really has nothing to do with race, but the DOJ and the feds were there from day 1 to make it about race, including FBI rats like Al Sharpton.  So yes, this kind of chaos can happen in Houston, we have plenty of race baiters here (remember Trayvon protesters blocking 288 traffic), and anywhere in America.  Your government will be working hard to make sure that it does.  So when you're all out in the streets stealing and rioting (because you can't help yourself, you're all victims), our militarized police in Houston will be brought in as our saviors, put in place martial law, and maybe kill some people, definitely attack people violently and indiscriminately. 

 

The 288 protest is precisely the example I cited earlier of police de-escalating a situation without the use of violence. The Ferguson police could take a lesson, and then maybe their town wouldn't have descended into chaos. Treat citizens like the enemy and they will become the enemy.

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Defend violence and mayhem  all you want. Good people wouldn't stand for it. I think we have better people here in Houston.

 

1. The abusive police response to peaceful protests created an unstable situation where looters and rioters prospered.

2. Your comment that you have no empathy for the people of Ferguson is a disgusting smear of many peaceful protesters who had nothing to do with rioting or looting.

 

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Defend violence and mayhem  all you want. Good people wouldn't stand for it. I think we have better people here in Houston.

 

I take it you didn't hear the statements from Ron Johnson and others in the police that most of the troublemakers arrested were from out of town.

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 am willing to give the news media the benefit of the doubt and not immediately attack them on mishandling the truth until that is proven or disproven. 

 

You shouldn't.

 

They prove time and again they are unable to provide accurate information.

 

The Boston Marathon bombing was real eye opening for me, I happened to be reading a forum at the moment it went off, and was listening to police scanners the whole time that it was going on. All media outlets were wrong over and over and over again. publishing un-vetted information which I knew was wrong just by having listened to what was unfolding on a police scanner.

 

I'm even getting to a point where I don't even want to listen to NPR any longer, they have continually been saying the police officer killed an unarmed teenager. The cop had a broken eye socket, and other injuries, that's why he was in the hospital. I'd have unloaded until they stopped moving too if my eye socket was broken, and likely, my vision would have been too bad to see when after a few shots the guy put his hands up.

 

I think it's deplorable that the media spins things the way they do and I won't waste my time with them.

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You shouldn't.

They prove time and again they are unable to provide accurate information.

The Boston Marathon bombing was real eye opening for me, I happened to be reading a forum at the moment it went off, and was listening to police scanners the whole time that it was going on. All media outlets were wrong over and over and over again. publishing un-vetted information which I knew was wrong just by having listened to what was unfolding on a police scanner.

I'm even getting to a point where I don't even want to listen to NPR any longer, they have continually been saying the police officer killed an unarmed teenager. The cop had a broken eye socket, and other injuries, that's why he was in the hospital. I'd have unloaded until they stopped moving too if my eye socket was broken, and likely, my vision would have been too bad to see when after a few shots the guy put his hands up.

I think it's deplorable that the media spins things the way they do and I won't waste my time with them.

Where do you get that his eye socket was broken? That was another rumor spread by Fox news. And Brown WAS an unarmed teenager. Last time I checked, he was 18.

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You shouldn't.

 

They prove time and again they are unable to provide accurate information.

 

The Boston Marathon bombing was real eye opening for me, I happened to be reading a forum at the moment it went off, and was listening to police scanners the whole time that it was going on. All media outlets were wrong over and over and over again. publishing un-vetted information which I knew was wrong just by having listened to what was unfolding on a police scanner.

 

I'm even getting to a point where I don't even want to listen to NPR any longer, they have continually been saying the police officer killed an unarmed teenager. The cop had a broken eye socket, and other injuries, that's why he was in the hospital. I'd have unloaded until they stopped moving too if my eye socket was broken, and likely, my vision would have been too bad to see when after a few shots the guy put his hands up.

 

I think it's deplorable that the media spins things the way they do and I won't waste my time with them.

 

You don't like how unreliable the media can be in developing situation, so instead you get your information from blogs and forums, or what? There was no broken eye socket, and I think you shouldn't post inflammatory information like that without sourcing it. http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/8/21/6054237/source-to-cnn-darren-wilson-didnt-have-a-fractured-eye-socket

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It would be nice to be able to return to a time when having a decent job wasn't such a stretch.  The $1.60 minimum wage in 1969 would now be worth $10.50.  Henry Ford was excoriated for raising his workers' wages (granted, with all sorts of paternalistic oversight), but the idea was making those workers able to buy the cars they were building.

 

 

I'm not sure if you think it would be nice, or if you are being facetious, but I wouldn't look for it to happen since corporate America has figured out that keeping American workers in a perpetual cage match with newcomers, is a good way to tamp down costs.

 

"Savings passed on to the consumer," of course, of course.

 

Only little hitch is the malaise that seems to come with "consumer" being one's identity, but that will pass in time, I expect.

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What are they calling out of town?  LA? New Orleans? I'm not familiar with Ferguson but it seems to be a small bedroom community inside of Saint Louis. If there was a protest here in West University or Bellaire and people walked over from Houston would they be considered out of town? 

 

And yes I agree with you that the troublemakers were the minority but doesn't change the fact that a violent demonstration is not going to win over public sentiment.  If a peaceful protest is not possible then don't have one.

 

I take it you didn't hear the statements from Ron Johnson and others in the police that most of the troublemakers arrested were from out of town.

 

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You don't like how unreliable the media can be in developing situation, so instead you get your information from blogs and forums, or what? There was no broken eye socket, and I think you shouldn't post inflammatory information like that without sourcing it. http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/8/21/6054237/source-to-cnn-darren-wilson-didnt-have-a-fractured-eye-socket

It wasn't broken but his face was swollen.

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Where do you get that his eye socket was broken? That was another rumor spread by Fox news. And Brown WAS an unarmed teenager. Last time I checked, he was 18.

 

 

You don't like how unreliable the media can be in developing situation, so instead you get your information from blogs and forums, or what? There was no broken eye socket, and I think you shouldn't post inflammatory information like that without sourcing it. http://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/8/21/6054237/source-to-cnn-darren-wilson-didnt-have-a-fractured-eye-socket

 

ha, see, there we go, perfect example of bad reporting thus perpetuated. 

 

Anyway, I typically get my overview of news from NPR, and then if I want to find out more about it, I use reddit, or other. Typically, reddit is pretty accurate and the information, if inaccurate, gets vetted out pretty well. While a fox, CNN, whoever, they don't go back and clean up their inaccuracies because telling more stories that they think is breaking news is more interesting than actually updating inaccurate information.

 

I bet if I went back to reddit and found the thread about the eye socket, it would be well updated with accurate info, I just read it, and didn't go back for updates.

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I'm not sure if you think it would be nice, or if you are being facetious, but I wouldn't look for it to happen since corporate America has figured out that keeping American workers in a perpetual cage match with newcomers, is a good way to tamp down costs.

 

"Savings passed on to the consumer," of course, of course.

 

Not to get too far off topic, but I'm dead serious.  I also walk the walk, in that I pay my employees quite a bit more than the minimum wage I earned in similar jobs back when the earth was cooling.

 

It also doesn't have to cost the consumer more.  Costco pays more and treats its employees better than Sam's, and reaps the benefit in a more stable, more productive workforce, while remaining competitive on price.

 

To get closer back to the topic, Ferguson one of the many ring suburbs of St. Louis.  The city of St. Louis is not part of St. Louis County - they are completely separate.  Ferguson is actually between the city of St. Louis and Lambert, the primary airport.  The comparison to Galena Park is pretty much spot on, so, yeah, the "out of town" characterization begs the question "how far out of town?"

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How could anyone have believed the broken eye socket story?

 

Numerous videos exist from all sorts of angles showing the officer post shooting. He's seen walking around. Chatting with other officers. Waving off the EMS (pretty much indicating he didn't have severe injuries). He's finally seen hopping into his own vehicle and driving off. Pretty hard to do with a broken eye socket that was "so severe" it caused you to fire 6+ shots at an unarmed teenager wearing flip flops.

 

 

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How could anyone have believed the broken eye socket story?

 

Numerous videos exist from all sorts of angles showing the officer post shooting. He's seen walking around. Chatting with other officers. Waving off the EMS (pretty much indicating he didn't have severe injuries). He's finally seen hopping into his own vehicle and driving off. Pretty hard to do with a broken eye socket that was "so severe" it caused you to fire 6+ shots at an unarmed teenager wearing flip flops.

Well, it does prove one thing anyway--the media is getting things wrong about what happened. And before you say "Only FOX makes mistakes", no, no they don't. They all do, and it's foolish to think otherwise.

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