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People keep telling me Hardy was supposed to be a free road once the tolls paid for themselves. Is that true? Surely it paid for itself by now...

This was never true nor was it the same for the Beltway, which for a long time, up until 5-6 years ago was paying for the Hardy Toll Road because so few people used at the time. Now that the Woodlands is exploding in population and 45 is a parking lot at all times, it's now begun to pay for itself.

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According to Houston Freeways, the Hardy Toll Road didn't reach self-sufficiency until 2002. One of the big changes of how it started turning a profit was the airport connector in 2000.

 

Not to de-rail the convo, but this would be a perfect reason why I feel the TX-35 tollway would be successful.

 

288 + I 45 daily commuter overflow + if its built w/ a Hobby connector, airport traffic flow. And that's only going to go up when the new international terminal goes in.

 

Lord knows I'd never use the Hardy except for Friday afternoon trips to Dallas (maybe once per year) if they didn't have the Airport connector. I use the Hardy to get to airport if there is even a hint of traffic on 59 or 45. 

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Perhaps but there is a difference between construction costs and maintenance costs.

If I understand this whole scam correctly, the tolls were to fund construction costs. Not maintenance costs.

That doesn't make sense. They wouldn't find just construction without thinking of the additional maintenance costs there would be. That's just poor planning.
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That doesn't make sense. They wouldn't find just construction without thinking of the additional maintenance costs there would be. That's just poor planning.

In my limited accounting and finance experience, there is a difference. The two can be and usually are separated on the books.

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In my limited accounting and finance experience, there is a difference. The two can be and usually are separated on the books.

Obviously I didn't mean it like that, I meant that toll revenues would obviously go towards paying off construction and future maintenance as it would seem highly unlikely the planners or HCTRA wouldn't have thought of something as simple as that.

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Obviously I didn't mean it like that, I meant that toll revenues would obviously go towards paying off construction and future maintenance as it would seem highly unlikely the planners or HCTRA wouldn't have thought of something as simple as that.

The tolls weren't supposed to be used for maintenance, as far as I understand the situation. I understand that once construction costs were paid, the roads would be "free" - or at least as "free" as the interstate.

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How can the get away with this? This is robbery pure and simple!

Did the hctra hold their meetings/outreach in the middle of the day, when decent ppl are at work?

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The tolls weren't supposed to be used for maintenance, as far as I understand the situation. I understand that once construction costs were paid, the roads would be "free" - or at least as "free" as the interstate.

I've seen this said a few times before but I've never seen a source. Maybe they did, but I just don't buy it. They wouldn't willingly give up a source of income as big as this. They're a business, and they need more income to expand and continue to operate. Making this free just because it seems like a nice thing to do isn't a good enough reason.
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The tolls weren't supposed to be used for maintenance, as far as I understand the situation. I understand that once construction costs were paid, the roads would be "free" - or at least as "free" as the interstate.

 

 

I've seen this said a few times before but I've never seen a source. Maybe they did, but I just don't buy it. They wouldn't willingly give up a source of income as big as this. They're a business, and they need more income to expand and continue to operate. Making this free just because it seems like a nice thing to do isn't a good enough reason.

 

Once upon a time, the tolls were meant to pay for construction, and once the construction was paid for, the road would be free. Maintenance would just be a budget item like any other road.  

 

The toll booths were actually removed from the Dallas-Fort Worth Turnpike when it was paid for.  However, that was before the age of people going into a tizzy about anything called a "tax," revenue freezes, and that wonderful semantic device, the "user fee." Guess what, worshippers of St. Ron of Santa Barbara, if the government is requiring you to pay money, it's a tax regardless of what you call it. 

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Once upon a time, the tolls were meant to pay for construction, and once the construction was paid for, the road would be free. Maintenance would just be a budget item like any other road.

The toll booths were actually removed from the Dallas-Fort Worth Turnpike when it was paid for. However, that was before the age of people going into a tizzy about anything called a "tax," revenue freezes, and that wonderful semantic device, the "user fee." Guess what, worshippers of St. Ron of Santa Barbara, if the government is requiring you to pay money, it's a tax regardless of what you call it.

Like I said, I've seen this mentioned before but never an actual news article or source. And Dallas may have done that but that's not HCTRA. However, I do agree with your later points. The tolls we pay now are essentially the taxes governments didn't want to raise. They'll get their money somehow.

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The tolls weren't supposed to be used for maintenance, as far as I understand the situation. I understand that once construction costs were paid, the roads would be "free" - or at least as "free" as the interstate.

 

As is so often the case, you misunderstand the situation (or are simply making it up).  There was never a pledge or plan to make the Harris County toll roads toll-free.  Ever. 

 

It should also be noted that the excess money the toll road authority receives from tolls has been used to fund other (non-toll) projects in Harris County.

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Well I think most of us so do not want to pay additional fees to drive on the bloody freeway.

Ok so who's going to pay to build and maintain these free highways? TXDOT doesn't have enough money because the gas tax hadn't increased in over 20 years while newer cars go further miles on a gallon of gas which means less money spent on gas and less money goes towards the gas tax.
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As is so often the case, you misunderstand the situation (or are simply making it up).  There was never a pledge or plan to make the Harris County toll roads toll-free.  Ever. 

 

It should also be noted that the excess money the toll road authority receives from tolls has been used to fund other (non-toll) projects in Harris County.

 

Apparently at the time there was some literature put out that led people to believe the roads would be toll-free once they were paid off.

 

 

Steve Malouf now pays close to $200 a month in tolls.

"Makes me angry, really angry," he said.

Because Steve knows what we found downtown inside a building that looks on the outside like it should be torn down; newspaper accounts of the nasty political fight three decades ago over the idea of selling bonds to build toll roads. Seventy percent of you said OK, but all those cheering people...wonder if they'd be so excited today if they knew they had been scammed?

"You feel scammed?" we asked toll road driver David Sartis.

"Oh sure, of course," he said.

We found this brochure from the early days of the Toll Road Authority, printed just after we OKed building the West Belt and the Hardy Toll Road. The promise was simple: "When both roads combined have covered their costs, the roads will become free public highways."

"What'd you think would happen when we paid the roads off?" we asked Sartis.

"Well, you would think they'd take the toll booths away, right?" he replied.

Well, if you used the toll road today, you already know that didn't happen.

But the promise is there in black and white. They used it get us to vote.

 

 

http://abc13.com/archive/8671067/

 

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That's a brochure. Id like to see a direct quote from a HCTRA official. If this WAS true it would've been advertised a lot more than a simple brochure.

Come on Bigfootsocks, who woul WANT to pay extra to drive on a freeway? Especially around here?

I think the anawer to that is no one.

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