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Another Giant Cross


Montrose1100

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Has anyone actually seen this since it's gone up? I'm not sure how they got 6 stories in the article. It doesn't look much taller than their existing three story building right behind it. It's barely noticeable - at least compared to what Sagemont put up.

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If you're at 610 and Interstate 10--which is kind of a mess right now due to the new ramps of 610 coming in and all that--it's not exactly a pristine area, and one example is that huge IKEA sign down there. There was a picture (not sure if the link still works on HAIF), but it looks east toward Interstate 10 from Memorial City in the 1960s, and it was already rather "junky" looking. Furthermore, it's known even within Christian denominations that Baptist establishments tend to be more ostentatious-looking (see: Southern Baptist University in Dallas), so it's not fair to dismiss crosses or religion in this case.

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I'm proud of the cross. God forbid we build something offers hope and peace. Nobody objects to billboards with a fetus on it promoting abortions or neon porn signs. Houston is in the bible belt. Religion is part of who southerners are historically. If you don't like the way things are done here, then you don't have to stay here. There is nothing worse than an outsider coming to MY city telling me how I should live. I think the crosses should be bigger. 

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wxman, it's MY city too.  It's a wild guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if I've lived here longer than you (not that it should matter).

 

My experience is that ads with fetus pictures tend to be on the anti abortion side.  

 

I'll make you a deal.  I won't try to tell you how to live; all I ask in return is that you grant me the same courtesy.

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Kind of ironic to talk about crosses on Good Friday.

 

I don't have a problem with the giant crosses. The cross means different things to people. I prefer to see it as symbolic of the intersection of our spiritual (vertical, reaching up to Heaven) nature and our human (horizontal) nature. I believe we are spiritual beings and the cross can help remind us that we can live our best life by applying spiritual principles. 

 

But of course the cross is also an instrument of torture and capital punishment, so I guess it's good that we don't see giant electric chairs or hypodermic needles alongside the freeway.

 

 

 

 

 

   

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I'm proud of the cross. God forbid we build something offers hope and peace. Nobody objects to billboards with a fetus on it promoting abortions or neon porn signs. Houston is in the bible belt. Religion is part of who southerners are historically. If you don't like the way things are done here, then you don't have to stay here. There is nothing worse than an outsider coming to MY city telling me how I should live. I think the crosses should be bigger. 

The problem is it doesn't offer hope and peace to all.

 

Personally I don't like the perception. If I felt that Houston was any way in the Bible Belt I wouldn't live here. We have a lot of everything here, and I am all for freedom of religion and speech so I'm not going to go petition against a cross or anything. especially for a religiously affiliated hospital or church. though I do get annoyed by the half torn down building with a huge sign that says "is jesus your lord?" with words partially fallen off too (gulf freeway northbound between 8 and 610). that's just an eyesore...

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When it's thrusted at you repeatedly & often by so called "Christians" telling you that your going to burn in hell because god hates you, makes them neither a symbol of hope or comfort. Knowing that they are from extreme fringes, is the only comfort. But, it can be frightening. Sorry, but that is almost always the very first memory and impression that I get when I see a cross. Perhaps if more main stream churches changed their tune and made them more welcoming to all, without treating me like I was deseased, or second class or just deserving of pity, then I'm sure I would have a different impression.

Is there hope for this?

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When it's thrusted at you repeatedly & often by so called "Christians" telling you that your going to burn in hell because god hates you, makes them neither a symbol of hope or comfort. Knowing that they are from extreme fringes, is the only comfort. But, it can be frightening. Sorry, but that is almost always the very first memory and impression that I get when I see a cross. Perhaps if more main stream churches changed their tune and made them more welcoming to all, without treating me like I was deseased, or second class or just deserving of pity, then I'm sure I would have a different impression.

Is there hope for this?

Don't get Westboro confused with real Christianity. If you take a look at where it is on Google Earth, you'll find a large house (frat house sized) with a pool, basketball court, and no parking. (this far suggests "cult" or at least "someone claiming to be a church to avoid taxes")

On the contrary, many real Christian churches preach that God loves everybody, even though you're a sinner (as we are all).

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On the contrary, many real Christian churches preach that God loves everybody, even though you're a sinner.

 

Which is fortunate for their parishioners, since that describes pretty much all of humanity.  As a side note, many non Christian (and for that matter, non Abrahamic*) faiths also subscribe to a higher being with all encompassing love and understanding.

 

 

*As a friend describes it, Judaism = 1.x, Christianity = 2.x, Islam = 3.x, since all three go back to the same original scriptures and worship the same deity.

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IronTiger I understand that Westboro is what it is, like I mentioned. Fringe. It's just that how I'm a sinner is always brought up while everyone else's sins are just excused as in "but we all sin". It is as if my sin is somehow way worse that it needs to be separated.

There are many, smaller churches in Houston, and elsewhere, that are very welcoming and inclusive. But these churches are not building giant crosses to draw people to them and attention to themselves. Does anyone in this forum believe that any of the organizations building these crosses along the frontage roads, in our suburbs, invite my longtime partner and I to participate and the same levels and in the same ways that straight/married members of the church would? ...Without first calling specific attention to my special sin? And...if they did, would not half of the people sitting in the pews get up and leave?

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IronTiger I understand that Westboro is what it is, like I mentioned. Fringe. It's just that how I'm a sinner is always brought up while everyone else's sins are just excused as in "but we all sin". It is as if my sin is somehow way worse that it needs to be separated.

There are many, smaller churches in Houston, and elsewhere, that are very welcoming and inclusive. But these churches are not building giant crosses to draw people to them and attention to themselves. Does anyone in this forum believe that any of the organizations building these crosses along the frontage roads, in our suburbs, invite my longtime partner and I to participate and the same levels and in the same ways that straight/married members of the church would? ...Without first calling specific attention to my special sin? And...if they did, would not half of the people sitting in the pews get up and leave?

You actually bring up a very interesting point and one of the problems in churches today.

The first is that no church should ever shame someone for their sin (we are not in the Middle Ages, and I wouldn't like a church that does that either). A church should focus on forgiveness, not condemnation.

The second thing is that it's always difficult for anyone to be told that what they are doing is wrong, whether it's true or not.

The third thing is that many churches choose to gloss over less comfortable topics (this covers a wide range of things) and only focus on the "Jesus loves you" type sermons. This is unfortunate because it causes many to miss the point. Many churches choose to be more "inclusive" simply to avoid controversy.

The fourth thing is that in the issue of homosexuality, there are two opposing forces at work: one side that sees it as some kind of "special sin" and one kind that doesn't have an issue with it at all. Sadly, the largest churches tend to be one kind or the other.

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*As a friend describes it, Judaism = 1.x, Christianity = 2.x, Islam = 3.x, since all three go back to the same original scriptures and worship the same deity.

Not entirely, Islam's view of who Allah is is rather different (Allah doesn't love unconditionally unlike the Jewish/Christian God Yahweh, won't necessarily fulfill a covenant, and a few other significant differences), and it diverges at the point of Isaac and Ishmael (who is God's chosen lineage? It depends on if it's Islam or Judaism/Christianity). Christianity diverges from Judaism regarding Jesus, the Messiah.

In Christianity, Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, and also God Himself through a concept called the Trinity, which involves three persons and one God somehow (it's complicated). Jesus died on the Cross to pay for humanity's sin (Good Friday, today) and rose from the Cross three days later (Easter). The Second Coming is when Jesus returns to Earth not to forgive (as the First Coming was) but to judge.

In Judaism, Jesus is not the Messiah and simply a man, as Jesus was underwhelming and not who they expected, and Easter, the Trinity, and the entire New Testament isn't the Word.

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Not entirely...

 

Well, yeah.  The 1.x, 2.x, 3.x is obviously a gross oversimplification, the point being that all three go back to Abraham.  

 

And for what it's worth, poke around enough in the Torah/Old Testament, and in parts of the New Testament, and you'll find more than a couple of instances of Yahweh not exactly being all warm and cuddly, either.

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Well, yeah.  The 1.x, 2.x, 3.x is obviously a gross oversimplification, the point being that all three go back to Abraham.  

 

And for what it's worth, poke around enough in the Torah/Old Testament, and in parts of the New Testament, and you'll find more than a couple of instances of Yahweh not exactly being all warm and cuddly, either.

Yes, what has been referred to as the "Old Testament God" can seem very extreme for the time and is difficult to see through a modern point of view, and reading the Old Testament can be rather confusing at times.

(As an aside, at what point is talking about mass transit more of a hot topic filled with rage, half-truths, obtuse examples, and numbers, while religion is far less of an issue? Such is the mysteries of HAIF)

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Personally, I am embarrassed to see the fad of giant religious icons take hold in Houston. I used to associate it with 3rd-world countries with low education levels.

I'm not knocking people for having the beliefs they have, but I think that putting stuff like this up doesn't get them the respect they apparently yearn for.

Well, religion and education rarely go hand in hand.

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I'll quote Bill Maher from his recent HBO "new rules" segment.

"For those atheists who get upset about seeing a cross or two in your town, get over it!. You're not a vampire for christ's sake, it's just a @*#!?""% cross. If you're that easily offended by the occassional cross here and there, you probably need to find another country to live in."

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plumber2 - Please don't take this as any personal attack but Bill Maher is a ******* idiot.

 

 

 

The issue I see it as is not the fact it's a cross, but a huge obnoxious statement piece. This one is no container tower cross (I-45 South). Of course anyone knows you expect to see a cross or two from a church.

 

As an atheist I have no quarrel with crosses. I know this may seem like the grounds for starting this topic... I have a huge respect for people, even if I think that most are brainless sheeple (religious or not). Of course I would support a detached cross for a church, but certainly not a HUGE one, especially in the city limits.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok people I really don't care about stuff like this either (im agnostic), but this is getting into something that is very wrong with america in general, and that is that we are so damn sensitive. Let them have their big ass cross. How does a hollow metal cross offend you honestly!? If you are offended by a cross then you probably have way more problems then just the cross. Let it go. The first amendment is there to help make us be more tolerate of other people, cultures, creeds, and faiths....not make everyone go into a corner and act like they are owed something, privileged, or if they can't have something then no one can have something. This is all very childish. 

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Ok people I really don't care about stuff like this either (im agnostic), but this is getting into something that is very wrong with america in general, and that is that we are so damn sensitive. Let them have their big ass cross. How does a hollow metal cross offend you honestly!? If you are offended by a cross then you probably have way more problems then just the cross. Let it go. The first amendment is there to help make us be more tolerate of other people, cultures, creeds, and faiths....not make everyone go into a corner and act like they are owed something, privileged, or if they can't have something then no one can have something. This is all very childish. 

2cyiczm.png

 

In all seriousness I'm not sensitive to points of views. However, I am extremely sensitive to blight, ranging from billboards along the freeways, telephone poles, and yes, giant crosses. I don't think that's childish.

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Slightly unrelated topic: didn't the COH make some ordinance in 2009 that banned a bunch of inflatables, like giant gorillas on car dealerships? I remember reading about that, and then one day, they all went away...

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Slightly unrelated topic: didn't the COH make some ordinance in 2009 that banned a bunch of inflatables, like giant gorillas on car dealerships? I remember reading about that, and then one day, they all went away...

They did seem to disappear over night. I wish they would also ban those tear drop shaped flags usually seen outside of no-contract cell phone company stores. Luckily I think that fad has passed.

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Slightly unrelated topic: didn't the COH make some ordinance in 2009 that banned a bunch of inflatables, like giant gorillas on car dealerships? I remember reading about that, and then one day, they all went away...

 

oh nooooo! Did the wacky arm-flailing inflatable tubemen survive D:

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