yaga 31 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Discussions have begun with United and the foreign flag carriers at IAH to begin design and cosntruction of a completely new terminal to replace existing Terminal D. This was announced today at the State of the Airports presentation at the Greater Houston Partnership luncheon by City of Houston Aviation Director Mario Diaz. The vision for the project will be announced at another event this evening hosted by HAS. Specific details of the new terminal will be presented at next year's State of the Airports address in 2015. A few renderings were included in the presentation on slides 37 and 38 and the discussion of the new terminal begins on slide 10 in the presentation transcript.. The presentation and the transcript can be found on the link below: http://www.fly2houston.com/newsroom-Presentations 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wxman 883 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I'm kinda so-so on the new terminal. Still looks rather small for a major international airport. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Houston19514 4617 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I'm kinda so-so on the new terminal. Still looks rather small for a major international airport.You can tell how big it is going to be by looking at two preliminary renderings of portions of the proposed structure?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lockmat 2291 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I like the first rendering the best. Where is the new monument/statue sign going? Looks great! Also, the space port for Ellington is still on the table?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nativehoustonion 588 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I know United wants to start the north B concourse next year. Demolish it and build mainline gates that connect to Terminal C. Not sure but that will add another 50 gates. With a FIS in Terminal B. That will allow Turkish, Singapore, Air Canada, Lufthansa, Air China to access connections to United without going to Terminal D. I did not know they were going actually tear down Terminal D. But they do need something larger for the other carriers. We will know more next year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ArchFan 323 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 That's interesting to hear. My recollection is that construction of Terminal D was delayed long enough that once work was finally initiated, the 80s recession was already hitting Houston hard. Consequently, its scale was greatly reduced. Once Houston bounced back, long ago, it's been obvious that it is grossly inadequate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mab 1803 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) http://fly2houston.com/TerminalD Edited March 19, 2014 by Mab 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Montrose1100 3714 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 http://fly2houston.com/TerminalD WOW! What an upgrade! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
asubrt 754 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I'm unclear on the plan... are they going to build an additional international terminal in addition to this renovation? Because they are only increasing the gates from 12 to 15, which doesn't seem like enough. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Houston19514 4617 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 I'm unclear on the plan... are they going to build an additional international terminal in addition to this renovation? Because they are only increasing the gates from 12 to 15, which doesn't seem like enough. I don't think there is any plan for an additional terminal in addition to this renovation at least in the near term. Hopefully, it is planned for easy expansion. Note that the proposed plan is for 15 wide-body gates. While we currently have 12 (13?) gates, we cannot currently handle 12 wide-bodies. I think we can currently accommodate perhaps 7 wide-bodies at one time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HoustonBoy 225 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Wait, this doesn't look like a renovation? Does it say? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arche_757 837 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) I love how big of a deal everyone makes over preliminary stuff on this forum! You guys (I know everyone is excited and loves to see Houston construction updates/proposals etc. So do I!) but just relax a minute or two and wait to see what the actual renderings will be when they are formally announced as the "X Y Z Terminal at George Bush Intercontinental Airport" at a later date. My best guess of the two we can see - the first one is the terminus of on wing of the new terminal. The other rendering is of a commons area for waiting passengers. And my guess would be that if Terminal D is to be replaced, they would probably add 4-6 new gates to the original size of that old terminal. So we would be looking at what? 14-16 or so gates? About in line with what the worlds busiest in Atlanta did. Terminal F there has 14 gates. Edited March 19, 2014 by arche_757 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yaga 31 Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Part 1 Part 2 Details-15 wide body gates including 4 A380 gates (2 airlines currently in discussion with bringing A380 to IAH)- new terminal to replace existing terminal D and northern pier of terminal C- project to be completed in 6 phases- anticipated groundbreaking Summer 2015- completion in 2021 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
asubrt 754 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Ok so it's a "new terminal", but it's in the same place as Terminal D (and part of C), and Terminal D will remain operational while it is being built in different phases. I didn't realize that Terminal F in Atlanta only had 14 gates, so I guess 15 is plenty if they are all widebody gates. I've heard that when all the European carriers are in during the afternoon D is basically at capacity, but if we can only accommodate 7 widebodies at once, then that explains it. As for the 2 airlines discussing the A380, I would guess Emirates (almost certainly) and British Airways. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Houston19514 4617 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) ^ Yes, I mis-typed in my earlier post when I referred to it as a renovation (and now it won't let me edit). This is almost entirely new construction. The renderings look great! Mario (the HAS Director) has been so great for Houston's airports. If one watches the linked videos one can see he understands how to do great airport facilities in ways that no previous Houston airport director or employee has apparently understood. Edited March 20, 2014 by Houston19514 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nativehoustonion 588 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 How great very nice looking. Air France also wants to fly the Airbus 380 but there are 4 other carriers that want to expand here. I'm waiting when Terminal B north concourse starts with UAX flights and United Airlines new gates at Terminal B that will connect to Terminal C. With another 53 787 planes coming they need to park somewhere. The Airbus 350-100 will be based in SFO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arche_757 837 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 That is an amazingly lengthy timeline! 6 years! 7 total to completion from today! I'm always amazed at airport planning. The overall masterplans are quite in keeping with forecasted growth, the individual projects that make it to fruition are not. So this terminal will basically be large enough to handle the current capacity when its done in 7 years! Not to mention the fact there may be additional carriers working out of IAH at that time (adding need for additional capacity). But like someone else pointed out, I'll let Mario who runs the show (and his team) work on the logistics/costs/projections and just assume they must know what they are doing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ClutchCity 232 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 That is an amazingly lengthy timeline! 6 years! 7 total to completion from today!I'm always amazed at airport planning. The overall masterplans are quite in keeping with forecasted growth, the individual projects that make it to fruition are not. So this terminal will basically be large enough to handle the current capacity when its done in 7 years! Not to mention the fact there may be additional carriers working out of IAH at that time (adding need for additional capacity).But like someone else pointed out, I'll let Mario who runs the show (and his team) work on the logistics/costs/projections and just assume they must know what they are doing.I think they are taking into account that Hobby is getting 5 gates(which I doubt are wide-body) so IAH might as well just cater to the big, long distance flights hence the upgrades(and addition of 1 to 15?) to all wide-body and A380 gates. I'll admit I don't have extensive knowledge, but given what I've read/heard about the Houston Airport Systems work with Southwest on taking Hobby International and their continued efforts to get Ellington certified as a spaceport I am cautiously optimistic that they will do a great job with United rebuilding IAH into a world class airport. This will only strengthen Houston's economic vitality in the future! I've seen optimistic projections that Houston should keep chugging along at a healthy clip until at least 2020 so hopefully whatever great plans they have come to full fruition. :] Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arche_757 837 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Hobby serves just Southwest.. currently.IAH's new international terminal will presumably NOT serve much of United's int'l traffic out of Houston (I didn't watch the videos). It seems it will replace Terminal D and serve as the gates for BA, Lufthansa, KLM/Air France (one airline now), Singapore, Korean, Emirates, Qatar, Turkish, China and maybe some of the Mexican airlines? Air Canada flies out of A or B in express jets only - and only to Toronto (and maybe Calgary). I would expect they might expand service to include larger 737s at some point but who knows? United flies out of whichever gates at Terminals C & E can handle wide-bodied aircraft. 777s and 767s routinely dock at Terminal C and I've flown international out of E on United. I assume the long range plans are for United to build a new Terminal C with more capacity for larger aircraft (like E) and more gates in longer/more linear terminals - but I'm just talking and haven't a clue. Good to see them expanding here rather than contracting (which I figured they wouldn't). If anything Denver would be the major airport to see service contraction. Lack of population and increased range from small bodied planes seems to make that stop (as a HUGE airport) less practical. Of course Denver serves a touristee area during ski season. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slick Vik 456 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 By 2020 Hobby will have 10 international gates. I think Etihad is one of the rumored airlines they have a flight from Dallas to Abu Dhabi already. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nativehoustonion 588 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 United IAH is the largest hub. It can still grow at IAH. Even though the headquarters of 250 people moved to Chicago. They will make IAH their network with the 787 planes and are committed to build the Terminal B North Concourse. WN with 5 gates at Hobby will not effect United position since they have 30 gates right now. WN will not start flying till 2016. They are looking for the leisure travelers that want to go to CUN, SJD, CZM and so on. United will announce more flights from IAH as they receive more 787. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arche_757 837 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 SWA won't really affect UA at IAH. Some fares will change to places like Cozumel, Cancun etc but that's good. United still flies further and to many different other airports than SWA. Besides that United really needn't worry about SWA until that airlines starts ordering wide-bodied planes... AA up north still flies to more Latin American destinations than any other airline - that's the primary competition (of course AA is always seemingly in bankruptcy!) I still think its odd that IAH just doesn't go ahead and build a big new terminal over there near that east/west runway and those dumpy looking world flags statues and be done with it. Build new. Tear down/renovate Terminal D into United's widebody/int'l gates and be done with it. Instead they're dragging out the process 7 years and not greatly expanding anything in the interim. Seems like it will be a lot of headache for international passengers on other airlines out of IAH? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nativehoustonion 588 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Please access fly2houston.com and click Terminal B and the information is there what United is planning. The United and the city are now talking when to start the new terminal B north. WN will most likely have widebodies since they do not have first class. I checked flying from Chicago to Cancun and AirTran was $480.22 and United was $427.33 in late April. Wow $113.23 in taxes! They have old planes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arche_757 837 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Who is WN? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AVENSAB727 6 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 WN is the code for Southwest Airlines. Glad to see Terminal B north start happening soon, as well as the much-needed renovation and expansion of terminal D. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arche_757 837 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Yeah I looked it up. Seems odd that SWA wouldn't work, but I guess they need a two-digit code? Still really odd. And since this isn't an aviation forum perhaps we should drop some of the formal names since its confusing? That said, I don't think I see SWA using widebody aircraft unless it explores flying international (eg: Europe/Asia/South America) beyond what it is able to do with the current nextgen 737s. Doesn't seem like they would start now after all these years of using the 737s. Besides that, they're the largest and most profitable airline in the country (presumably one of the top 3-4 in the world?) and have done quite well just being what they are - a "low cost" airline that flies to a lot of cities. It is good to see the work moving from proposed to planned to under construction. IAH is a decent enough airport, but there are parts of it that need work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nativehoustonion 588 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Emirates is the most profitable airline in the world. it is owned by their government which pays most of their costs. United Airlines spent 7 billion on jet fuel last year. Emirates paid nada and have 100 777 on ordered. Sorry for the airline codes Emirates is EK. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AVENSAB727 6 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I wonder when Phase 3 of terminal B north will start? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nativehoustonion 588 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 They will announce it next year. I'm excited with another 50 gates! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slick Vik 456 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 SWA won't really affect UA at IAH. Some fares will change to places like Cozumel, Cancun etc but that's good. United still flies further and to many different other airports than SWA. Besides that United really needn't worry about SWA until that airlines starts ordering wide-bodied planes... AA up north still flies to more Latin American destinations than any other airline - that's the primary competition (of course AA is always seemingly in bankruptcy!) I still think its odd that IAH just doesn't go ahead and build a big new terminal over there near that east/west runway and those dumpy looking world flags statues and be done with it. Build new. Tear down/renovate Terminal D into United's widebody/int'l gates and be done with it. Instead they're dragging out the process 7 years and not greatly expanding anything in the interim. Seems like it will be a lot of headache for international passengers on other airlines out of IAH? It will affect UA a LOT regarding Latin America. Southwest is planning to hit South America eventually which will hurt United, particularly to Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Ecuador, and Colombia. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nativehoustonion 588 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Southwest does not have a plane that can fly to Brazil, Chile, Argentina. Please look at the range of their old 737s. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nativehoustonion 588 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Southwest does not have a plane that can fly to Brazil, Chile, Argentina. Please look at the range of their old 737s. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nativehoustonion 588 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 They could get there since they have no cargo department. LOL! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slick Vik 456 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 They could get there since they have no cargo department. LOL! I think southwest has cargo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arche_757 837 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Southwest can't fly to Brazil, Chile or Argentina with the current crop of airliners they have. Nor would anyone want to have a 6-9 hour flight in one of their 737s! I wouldn't! SWA flying from 5 gates to Central America from one airport won't be a huge blow to United. SWA flying from: Houston, Atlanta, New Orleans, Miami, Tampa etc. to Latin America would be a problem. And yes - I figured Emirates (or some other such government owned airline) was the wealthiest. Southwest must be among the top private airlines though. No doubt. And Dubai's airport is amazing. Never been, but the expansive terminal and the ability to almost accomodate any widebody at nearly every gate is impressive. Not that I ever have an interest in flying over there (don't like hot/dry weather). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arche_757 837 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Southwest does have cargo. And they do have some older planes. United flies a lot of newer aircraft compared to most of the other legacy carriers in the US. Quality, but that's from Continental and not the old United. SWA is investing in the nextGEN 737s (I think they are the launch customer). So they'll be getting a new fleet of planes and are currently buying planes from Boeing at a more continual rate than any other US airlines (at least last time I looked at the numbers in Airliner world). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nativehoustonion 588 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 They do not have cargo. How can they turn a plane around in 20 minutes. United has 35 Airbus 350-1000, 65 787, 100 737 Max, 73 737-90ERS, and 70 Emb175. What does Southwest has. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arche_757 837 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) As of February 2014, the Southwest Airlines fleet consists of the following aircraft. The average fleet age is 11.3 years. Fleet:Aircraft In Service Orders Options Passengers NotesBoeing 737 MAX 7 — 30 — TBA Scheduled to enter service in 2019Boeing 737 MAX 8 — 170 191 TBA Scheduled to enter service in 2017Boeing 737-300 122 — — 137143 Some retrofitted with electronic flight decksIn process of being retired Boeing 737-500 15 — — 122 In process of being retiredBoeing 737-700 393 52 36 143 Options convertible to -800 series.Boeing 737-800 53 64 — 175 All to be retrofitted with Split Scimitar Winglets Total 583(S) 318(Or) 227(Op) Why the disdain of Southwest? Its a locally run/owned airline unlike United. Edited March 20, 2014 by arche_757 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nativehoustonion 588 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Look who stock is higher not LUV. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arche_757 837 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 And historically Southwest has done better than United. The fleet isn't full of new launch planes (like the yet unfinished A351 or B789) but its a resonable airlines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nativehoustonion 588 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Thanks looks very good regarding the fleet. So WN is not getting the 737-Max until 2017? I cannot wait till the 787-900 coming soon. They will fly from IAH until they fly LAX-MEL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
arche_757 837 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I just generally like their customer service... but yes as something of an airliner nut (who didn't know WN = SWA!) I love the new generation launch planes. Will be nice to get the new 737s in service alongside the 787s. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nativehoustonion 588 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Thanks looks very good regarding the fleet. So WN is not getting the 737-Max until 2017? I cannot wait till the 787-900 coming soon. They will fly from IAH until they fly LAX-MEL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slick Vik 456 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 The range of 737 goes to Venezuela, Ecuador, Colombia, Panama, Nicaragua, Mexico, El Salvador, and the entire Carribbean. You can't tell me United isn't concerned about that. If it wasn't why did it try SO hard to block hobby from going international? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AVENSAB727 6 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 The range of 737 goes to Venezuela, Ecuador, Colombia, Panama, Nicaragua, Mexico, El Salvador, and the entire Carribbean. You can't tell me United isn't concerned about that. If it wasn't why did it try SO hard to block hobby from going international?Maybe because they were making planned capacity cuts...and needed to find an appropriate excuse to make the cuts. I can tell you United is not all that concerned.. they will compete with WN. No Big Deal. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slick Vik 456 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Maybe because they were making planned capacity cuts...and needed to find an appropriate excuse to make the cuts. I can tell you United is not all that concerned.. they will compete with WN. No Big Deal. They will but they will have to lower fares on those routes. Once there are 10 international gates at hobby then southwest will be able to lower fares at the routes they run, probably vacation destinations in the carribbean and mexico and possibly northern south america. I agree they were looking for an excuse to make cuts but at the same time they didn't want to lower any fare if they didn't have to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AVENSAB727 6 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 They will but they will have to lower fares on those routes. Once there are 10 international gates at hobby then southwest will be able to lower fares at the routes they run, probably vacation destinations in the carribbean and mexico and possibly northern south america. I agree they were looking for an excuse to make cuts but at the same time they didn't want to lower any fare if they didn't have to.Yeah, but I am sure UA will try to outmatch WN. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jt16 169 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Look who stock is higher not LUV.Huh? UAL has a lower market cap despite being a significantly higher market share of flights. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mfastx 535 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Terminal D is in dire need of an upgrade.. the quality of the terminal is much below the par set by other comparable international airports. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nativehoustonion 588 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 WN will also compete with America, Delta, Jet Blue, Copa, Avianca and so on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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