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Ultimately, this project may or may not happen

Quit being such suckers all the time and think for yourselves for once. It's really pathetic to blindly accept someone's opinion on the internet as something that can't be questioned.

Thank you for the only two possibilities in the universe.  :P

 

Why have you been such an anti-swtsig? Does he work for your competitor or something? If someone provides some insider information, and we have hopes that it will be true, doesn't make us Sheeple. If swtsig was alluring us into a cult, he would be proven wrong in time. Many have tried this before. There were several posters a few years ago that pulled renderings out of their magic hats and promised glitz (Skye, Rise, and Edge), that proved to be absolutely nothing.

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We got a lot of great projects in the past year. Hoping that this one (Kirby Thor) and others continue as planned (Hines Market Square for example).

Slow down isn't fun to think about, but life goes on and we will see more things happen. I think M-59 or Bridgeview whatever seems unlikely as does the 41 story market square office.

My oil company thinks worst case scenario 2 years of low oil prices.. Worst case (so they say, and I'm inclined to believe them)

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Slow down isn't fun to think about, but life goes on and we will see more things happen. I think M-59 or Bridgeview whatever seems unlikely as does the 41 story market square office.

My oil company thinks worst case scenario 2 years of low oil prices.. Worst case (so they say, and I'm inclined to believe them)

 

Exactly. Hopefully most of these projects just get delayed for some time. 

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This unfortunately is the nature of the oil industry and the cyclical economy Houston has to deal with. We have been extremely fortunate to have had the growth that has come over the last two years. Its been widespread and has added a whole new texture to the fabric that is Houston. We have seen astronomical development in every segment of our city. We are in the process of creating two wonderful additions to the inner city that will contribute to the quality of life in Buffalo Bayou and Herman Park. New museums are getting ready to start construction, a new arts center in Midtown a concert hall in Sugarland. The med center is set to build three new hospitals. Downtown  will actually have a much larger segment of residents that will continue to grow and help develop a sense of community in the heart of our city. We are going to get at least two new skyscrapers that will contributes to our ever expanding skyline and the uber development of the East side around the convention center will make that side of town seem electric. I guess what I'm trying to say is its been a really good run and it looks like now its time for a breather. 

It's just part of our culture that we have these swings. The good thing is that we have quite a few very interesting projects to watch while things slow down and maybe by the time this wave of construction is coming to an end oil will be up again and the next wave will come in.

I think everyone just needs to appreciate all this activity but understand that every aspect of the growth process is integral to the other. 

The more information we receive from any of our members should be processed as helpful information. 

This is an open forum and I always thought as a whole this group was above the pettiness that seems more appropriate on some of the political sites out there.

I appreciate everyones opinion but lets try and be open to everyones knowledge. You might even learn something.

 

Very well put. Houston is hitting a development phase that older cities hit almost 150 years before. The great thing is that because of the most recent wave of new development, I really see the core of how Houston continues to build, to completely change. It's a very exciting time as we begin to see the influence many of these denser more urban developments have on their neighborhoods. A perfect example is Rice Village, which is overhauling its entire design.

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Ultimately, this project may or may not happen, but the demo is a lot more reassuring than any free, unsolicited 'analysis' that swtig or anyone else anonymously brings to the internet. Someone is spending actual cash on the demo (that is a good sign) - all swtsig brings is another irresponsible opinion that means nothing to people who are actually putting this project together. No one is consulting with swtig on this project and he is just as much in the dark as anyone else who surfs the net.

Not saying that demo automatically = construction. And he is very right when he says that demos happen all the time without a project coming to fruition. But I would put a hell of a lot more faith in what the developers are doing than anything I read from swtsig or anyone else that has nothing better to do than to post at HAIF all day long.

Quit being such suckers all the time and think for yourselves for once. It's really pathetic to blindly accept someone's opinion on the internet as something that can't be questioned.

 

What exactly is "irresponsible" about this statement?

 

"As of a few weeks ago i was told this one was still moving forward but we've seen one hell of a decline in crude even since then... let's see what happens."

 

Not trying to pile on, but you just acknowledged that demos happen all the time without a project coming to fruition. I don't think anyone is "blindly accepting" what swtsig is saying either. It's not even a matter of opinion anyways. His comment comes off to me as a simple wait and see approach. I don't see what all the fuss is about here. Perhaps just a misunderstanding or lumping the tone of previous comments in with this one, but that would be...dare I say..."irresponsible." ;)

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This unfortunately is the nature of the oil industry and the cyclical economy Houston has to deal with. We have been extremely fortunate to have had the growth that has come over the last two years. Its been widespread and has added a whole new texture to the fabric that is Houston. We have seen astronomical development in every segment of our city. We are in the process of creating two wonderful additions to the inner city that will contribute to the quality of life in Buffalo Bayou and Herman Park. New museums are getting ready to start construction, a new arts center in Midtown a concert hall in Sugarland. The med center is set to build three new hospitals. Downtown  will actually have a much larger segment of residents that will continue to grow and help develop a sense of community in the heart of our city. We are going to get at least two new skyscrapers that will contributes to our ever expanding skyline and the uber development of the East side around the convention center will make that side of town seem electric. I guess what I'm trying to say is its been a really good run and it looks like now its time for a breather. 

It's just part of our culture that we have these swings. The good thing is that we have quite a few very interesting projects to watch while things slow down and maybe by the time this wave of construction is coming to an end oil will be up again and the next wave will come in.

I think everyone just needs to appreciate all this activity but understand that every aspect of the growth process is integral to the other. 

The more information we receive from any of our members should be processed as helpful information. 

This is an open forum and I always thought as a whole this group was above the pettiness that seems more appropriate on some of the political sites out there.

I appreciate everyones opinion but lets try and be open to everyones knowledge. You might even learn something.

 

Could not have said that better. Very well put and pretty darn classy too!

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What exactly is "irresponsible" about this statement?

 

"As of a few weeks ago i was told this one was still moving forward but we've seen one hell of a decline in crude even since then... let's see what happens."

 

Not trying to pile on, but you just acknowledged that demos happen all the time without a project coming to fruition. I don't think anyone is "blindly accepting" what swtsig is saying either. It's not even a matter of opinion anyways. His comment comes off to me as a simple wait and see approach. I don't see what all the fuss is about here. Perhaps just a misunderstanding or lumping the tone of previous comments in with this one, but that would be...dare I say..."irresponsible." ;)

 

ya the "irresponsible" comment really threw me for a loop.... i guess the dude has a hard-on for me something fierce. even when i'm simply pontificating on a development he spews a vitrol-laden rant about who knows what. i find it odd that he has "blindly accepted" my role as a complete fraud yet puts everyone else on blast (i guess?) for uhh.... allowing me to post? reading my posts?? not sure.

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Triton, while you may have been paying $100 to fill up your truck in summer of 2008, oil prices were no where near $100/barrel from 2004-2008. Prices mostly exploded after the shale revolution of 2009-2012 began.

 

I happen to be one of the forumers here who care both about the architecture AND economics of developments around the city. I work in single family residential development and we sell a good chunk of our homes to energy executives. I rarely post, but I certainly read others' posts every few days because I'm extremely interested in land planning, economics, development, and architecture and my lively hood depends on it.

 

What I've noticed is some of the younger posters here care little about the economics and are mostly skyscraper enthusiast.  However, some of the more seasoned super posters are so tainted by the oil bust of the 80's that it's always in the back of their heads that a bust is right around the corner. So my apologies if I came across as disrespectful to swtig with my 'negative nancy' comment.  Even though I may have overreacted, I'm sure he knows where I'm coming from when I said there's a negative tone to most (not all) of his comments.

 

I can appreciate both perspectives which is why I enjoy HAIF so much. It's great to keep economics in perspective but it's also good to see new blood in Houston that's not scared to death to develop big projects. That gun-shy attitude has held back investment in Houston for 20-30 years.

 

NEWSFLASH: Houston is not the only city that goes through these real estate cycles. In fact only a handful of cities like NYC are diverse and stable enough to limit the extremes of cycles. It may be more pronounced here with our relationship to the energy industry but certainly not unique to Houston.

 

Our motto at my company is do well enough in the good times to carry us through the lean times, but surely the good times will come rolling around again. So just as there may be a bust around the corner, there may also be a boom coming right behind it!!!!   :)

Edited by 'Stonian
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Triton, while you may have been paying $100 to fill up your truck in summer of 2008, oil prices were no where near $100/barrel from 2004-2008. Prices mostly exploded after the shale revolution of 2009-2012 began.

 

I happen to be one of the forumers here who care both about the architecture AND economics of developments around the city. I work in single family residential development and we sell a good chunk of our homes to energy executives. I rarely post, but I certainly read others' posts every few days because I'm extremely interested in land planning, economics, development, and architecture and my lively hood depends on it.

 

What I've noticed is some of the younger posters here care little about the economics and are mostly skyscraper enthusiast.  However, some of the more seasoned super posters are so tainted by the oil bust of the 80's that it's always in the back of their heads that a bust is right around the corner. So my apologies if I came across as disrespectful to swtig with my 'negative nancy' comment.  Even though I may have overreacted, I'm sure he knows where I'm coming from when I said there's a negative tone to most (not all) of his comments.

 

I can appreciate both perspectives which is why I enjoy HAIF so much. It's great to keep economics in perspective but it's also good to see new blood in Houston that's not scared to death to develop big projects. That gun-shy attitude has held back investment in Houston for 20-30 years.

 

NEWSFLASH: Houston is not the only city that goes through these real estate cycles. In fact only a handful of cities like NYC are diverse and stable enough to limit the extremes of cycles. It may be more pronounced here with our relationship to the energy industry but certainly not unique to Houston.

 

Our motto at my company is do well enough in the good times to carry us through the lean times, but surely the good times will come rolling around again. So just as there may be a bust around the corner, there may also be a boom coming right behind it!!!!   :)

 

Oil hit its all time high of $147 a barrel in 2008.

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I enjoy getting my hopes high on possible Houston projects as much as the next Houston homer, however I'd rather want the truth based in reality.

Swtsig is a reservoir of information - for all kinds including positive, "negative" and realistic. I'll repeat it - he is HAIFs most valuable member. He gives you the truth, he doesn't lie, he doesn't tickle your ears. Just the facts - and facts no other HAIFer can provide (with the rare exceptions).

And this is not predominantly an architecture forum, regardless of the url address. It should be renamed Houston Development Forum. People here like architecture but there's no doubt they like the development more, at least as it relates to Houston. Do we like good architecture, no doubt, but most would take the average development over no development at all.

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as of a few weeks ago i was told this one was still moving forward but we've seen one hell of a decline in crude even since then... let's see what happens.

I find it hilarious that people are so offended by two comments made here.

1) Confirmation from a source (the person he talked to) saying it was MOVING FORWARD (a positive statement for ESL people).

2) a realistic comment anchored in current realities which happens to also echo concerns of other industry experts having been quoted publicly recently.

I fail to see the "negativity"

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Yeah, I remember paying $4.15 for a gallon of regular gasoline just outside of Brenham right after Hurricane Ike. Some places were price gouging at the time, but I do remember oil reaching its all time high during that time...and then it dropped like a rock at the end of 2008. Oil reached $147 in mid July 2008, and then dropped down below $40 in December before creeping back up...while the national average for the price of a gallon of unleaded gas in mid July 2008 reached $4.11, and then dropped all the way down to $1.66 by mid December 2008 before it started creeping back up also.

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ya the "irresponsible" comment really threw me for a loop.... i guess the dude has a hard-on for me something fierce. even when i'm simply pontificating on a development he spews a vitrol-laden rant about who knows what. i find it odd that he has "blindly accepted" my role as a complete fraud yet puts everyone else on blast (i guess?) for uhh.... allowing me to post? reading my posts?? not sure.

simply pontificating... interesting word combo

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I just don't see why the declining price of oil has to be brought up in every forum. We all know what's going on with oil prices and how they effect the market and projects. It doesn't need to be repeated over and over. I just read almost two pages of post that really have nothing to do with The Kirby Collection.

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Oil hit its all time high of $147 a barrel in 2008.

 

True, I guess I stand corrected 'somewhat', which is why I stressed 'from 2004-2008' when Houston experienced steady, consistent growth absent astronomical oil prices..

 

However, take a look at the historic price of oil and tell me there's no validity to what I'm saying. To single out a few months in 2008 when oil prices spiked to an all time high is disingenuous at best. Oil was around $20-$30/barrel in the run up to the 2004 Superbowl when re-development was occurring all around the city. In fact, save for those few months in 2008, prices ranged from anywhere from $30-$70 from 2004-2008, a time a great prosperity in Houston.

 

http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/crude-oil/all/

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True, I guess I stand corrected 'somewhat', which is why I stressed 'from 2004-2008' when Houston experienced steady, consistent growth absent astronomical oil prices..

 

However, take a look at the historic price of oil and tell me there's no validity to what I'm saying. To single out a few months in 2008 when oil prices spiked to an all time high is disingenuous at best. Oil was around $20-$30/barrel in the run up to the 2004 Superbowl when re-development was occurring all around the city. In fact, save for those few months in 2008, prices ranged from anywhere from $30-$70 from 2004-2008, a time a great prosperity in Houston.

 

http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/crude-oil/all/

 

The difference is that even in the earlier part of that timeframe, you had continually climbing oil prices combined with a strong national economy, something we don't have today. Credit was looser, making economic development easier.

 

Also, $50-60 oil a decade ago is not the same in terms of impacting employment growth as $50-60 oil now. There was more exploration to be done then in that price range; now there's very little exploration you can do at $50-60 that hasn't already been done.

 

Edited by H-Town Man
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I was on the bridge of tc jester near i ten going south and noticed that the skylines are literally merging. Kirby drive was directly ahead of us. How tall will these towers be? This project and the Hanover 40 story will just add to the skyline. If yall haven't see this view, it is incredible

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I was on the bridge of tc jester near i ten going south and noticed that the skylines are literally merging. Kirby drive was directly ahead of us. How tall will these towers be? This project and the Hanover 40 story will just add to the skyline. If yall haven't see this view, it is incredible

Kirby is growing into an amazing corridor. I wouldn't mind seeing 10-20 floor buildings start to fill in. This size project is great.
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I hope you can take a picture. New and emerging skylines are one of the best things to see on this forum. For example, the cool pics of Med Center density and Uptown we have been seeing lately.

I think the best view is actually on 59 over Kirby, right at dusk when the street lights are on. I'll try my best.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am delighted to hear this is moving forward. It is a lovely looking project. I am of the mind that density breeds density as neighborhoods become more walkable and more attractive to those who desire a more urban setting. Although it may take a few more years to come to fruition, I think the construction of this would ultimately bode well for the Hanover River Oaks tower.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Kirby Collection

Location: Upper Kirby, Kirby Drive between Colquitt and West Main

Developer: New York-based Thor Equities

Original plan: A mixed-use development with 67,000 square feet of retail, a 13-story office building and a 25-story apartment tower. Seven townhomes will line Lake Street.

Update: The company said it is seeking construction financing and will submit plans for a building permit in a couple weeks. "We really believe the Houston market is a strong one," said Melissa Gliatta, Thor's executive vice president. "We're betting big."

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/real-estate/article/Cracks-forming-in-commercial-real-estate-market-6037038.php#/0

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Highrise Tower changed the title to The Kirby Collection By Thor Equities

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