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Yeah some of the tenants are still in there. I wonder if they are building this in phases? Then again they could be starting demolition on these buildings while the tenants leases expire on the others. I mean Cafe Express left that building because of this project.

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Was jogging on Kirby just a while ago and saw that they have finally fenced off the building that used to have Cafe Express and a smaller tenant above them. I wouldn't be surprised if demolition started within the next couple weeks!

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Kirby%20Website%20(aerial).jpg

 

Kirby%20Website%202%20(street).jpg

 

Very nice update! They took off that stupid looking cloud thing with the building name on it lol and it looks like they either moved are totally took out the escalator! This is a wonderful development and hopefully its sets an example for the rest of the area to follow.

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Just drove by and saw several men erecting signs for the project on Kirby @ West Main and Kirby @ Steele. Leasing info. for the office building was on the sign with a few other things but didn't catch a good look.

 

Oops, sorry, meant Colquitt not Steele St.

Edited by KinkaidAlum
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...yeah because they are just bulldozing everything just for the fun of it, right?

 

yeah, that's NEVER happened before <_<

 

i'll spare you the lecture on why demolishing existing structures - especially if the proposed development gets delayed - is in the developers financial favor.

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From someone who works in the industry.....grow the F up people. Oh woe is us! Freakin pathetic...

 

you're the only one being dramatic here... i was just making a comment about the project's likelihood.

 

whether you want to hear it or not a lot of these projects will get shelved. it's a reality. it's fact. get used to it. no one is looking for pity; rather we're trying to shed some insight. need you reminding that this is the GOING UP section.... discussing whether or not these projects actual GO UP is a fairly relevant topic.

 

i have better things to do than go in cirlces talking about projects that will never see the light of day... ymmv though.

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you're the only one being dramatic here... i was just making a comment about the project's likelihood.

 

whether you want to hear it or not a lot of these projects will get shelved. it's a reality. it's fact. get used to it. no one is looking for pity; rather we're trying to shed some insight. need you reminding that this is the GOING UP section.... discussing whether or not these projects actual GO UP is a fairly relevant topic.

 

i have better things to do than go in cirlces talking about projects that will never see the light of day... ymmv though.

 

Look if you want to waste your time talking about all the numbers of ways a project will never get built, never will see the light of day then go ahead my friend.

 

Lol Urbanizzer will be out of the job with that attitude. Oh what would he do with his day!

 

I'll be over here talking about what we can build, what we might build, what we should, could, would build, what they say we couldn't build, but we did it anyway, and could never be built.....but would be awesome if it did.

 

So I agree with you. Lets better utilize our time to discuss this project which is currently being built and will see the light of day because as I see it....it's still "going up". The day it gets put into your dreaded 'canceled column' we will mourn the lose of what could have been great....and then quickly discuss the fabulous future of what will be next.

 

Also technically a large portion of these projects might not see the light of day, there are thousands that never leave boards that most people here never ever hear about, but that makes them unworthy of discussion? Unworthy of our attention? Unworthy of inspection/analysis? Unworthy of our time? I don't know if you have noticed, but architecture is a business of potential, hypothetical, theoretical. We don't deal in absolute's or guarantees (the insurance company does that :P). I'm sorry that it's not a sure thing from which you feel like you can properly waste your time on. Because we all know that when you are on the internet you are doing something that isn't wasting your time... Why are you on an architecture forum then? That's just baffling.

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From someone who works in the industry.....

Luminare, I'm sorry, but you're saying you work in the real estate industry or oil industry? If it's the real estate industry, what swtsig is saying is very consistent with what everyone in the CRE industry is worried about right now.. if not publicly, internally they are. CBRE released a (internal?) report literally today (12/11/2014 now) how they have a positive view of the United States real estate market as a whole (lower oil prices = more consumer spending, possibly increased spending on buying homes and on renovations); however, Houston is now one of the very dark spots. Doesn't matter if oil prices recover shortly... this drop has spooked many investors. 2015 is going to be a tough year. We'll have all these continued construction projects, but don't expect much newer development to materialize. It's a hard truth to shallow... your remarks are very similar to the same comments I saw in this forum in early September 2008 and, during that time, I doubted all the naysayers. I don't think it will be that dramatic at all but a slowdown is absolutely in our midst. Though this project is beautiful, it probably won't make it through. But here's hoping for the best!  :)

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Luminare, I'm sorry, but you're saying you work in the real estate industry or oil industry? If it's the real estate industry, what swtsig is saying is very consistent with what everyone in the CRE industry is worried about right now.. if not publicly, internally they are. CBRE released a (internal?) report literally today (12/11/2014 now) how they have a positive view of the United States real estate market as a whole (lower oil prices = more consumer spending, possibly increased spending on buying homes and on renovations); however, Houston is now one of the very dark spots. Doesn't matter if oil prices recover shortly... this drop has spooked many investors. 2015 is going to be a tough year. We'll have all these continued construction projects, but don't expect much newer development to materialize. It's a hard truth to shallow... your remarks are very similar to the same comments I saw in this forum in early September 2008 and, during that time, I doubted all the naysayers. I don't think it will be that dramatic at all but a slowdown is absolutely in our midst. Though this project is beautiful, it probably won't make it through. But here's hoping for the best!  :)

 

How is that with anticipated 70,000-60,000 additional jobs in that year?

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Luminare, I'm sorry, but you're saying you work in the real estate industry or oil industry? If it's the real estate industry, what swtsig is saying is very consistent with what everyone in the CRE industry is worried about right now.. if not publicly, internally they are. CBRE released a (internal?) report literally today (12/11/2014 now) how they have a positive view of the United States real estate market as a whole (lower oil prices = more consumer spending, possibly increased spending on buying homes and on renovations); however, Houston is now one of the very dark spots. Doesn't matter if oil prices recover shortly... this drop has spooked many investors. 2015 is going to be a tough year. We'll have all these continued construction projects, but don't expect much newer development to materialize. It's a hard truth to shallow... your remarks are very similar to the same comments I saw in this forum in early September 2008 and, during that time, I doubted all the naysayers. I don't think it will be that dramatic at all but a slowdown is absolutely in our midst. Though this project is beautiful, it probably won't make it through. But here's hoping for the best!  :)

 

Thanks for the heads up on the release of the CBRE report Triton but I'm with Luminare on this one. I used to enjoy swtsig's posts because it was obvious that he/she worked in the CRE industry and was somewhat knowledgable of market conditions. However throughout this tremendous boom of the last couple of years, swtsig has repeatedly been 'negative nancy' more often than not. He comes across as someone too busy looking for signs of a bust to even enjoy the boom.

 

This is but one example earlier this year that he alluded to a major tenant/potential tenant abandoning space in the Samsung/Briarlake building in Westchase that he has yet to ever follow-up on with who he was referring to:

 

swtsig                                                          Full Member

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Posted Sunday, February 9, 2014 at 8:13 PM

brijonmang, on 08 Feb 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:snapback.png

Is this the Westchase project you alluded to as losing a major tenant in that west Houston core thread?

Negative. 

 

 

Maybe swtsig's career involves looking for signs of a slow down to insure that his employer is never surprised or caught off guard holding depressed real estate, but I have to take most of his doom and gloom comments with a grain a salt considering even in the best of times, he's overly cautious.

 

As for all the hoopla over oil price declines right now, I am concerned because Houston still runs on oil, but not overly concerned because its mostly self inflicted from the oil industry itself - a simple Saudi vs U.S. price war to maintain market share.

 

It's reassuring to remember that Houston still grew at a good clip from 2004-2008 when oil prices hoovered in the $50-$60 range and even more recently when natural gas prices have experienced historic lows. It's also important to remember that lower oil/natural gas prices will be a boon to many of the chemical projects that are set to start soon along the gulf coast that will employ thousands. Additionally, after a few years of moderate growth, the Texas Medical Center is set to start some significant projects.

 

Regarding oil specifically, if prices get low enough somebody will blink and cut production to stabilize prices. Sure there will be a slow down and some projects curtailed, but lets wait for those shoes to drop. I'll remain optimistic that even in slower growth times there will be a flight to quality and the best projects (ie. those around Upper Kirby, Downtown, Uptown, River Oaks District, City Centre, The Woodlands, and Sugarland) will still proceed in phases.

 

Apologies for the long post..., just my 2 cents.

Edited by 'Stonian
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I like this building(s). I think it is a good concept. That has value even if the market cools a bit. I hope this still is on track.

In terms of swtsig... I appreciate his insight. I don't really appreciate the way he chooses to communicate. But I'm an adult... No sense getting mad at an Internet personality.

As a young person, I prefer to wait and see how the market responds to everything. I have a hard time buying into a doom situation. In general, I feel strongly the city will continue to make positive steps forward and grow / add density / urbanize.

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The problem is not with swtsig's insight. We all appreciate his opinions because of the field he is in, but I don't care about real estate, the oil industry, etc.... I only care about one thing and that's Architecture and because this building is still scheduled to go up I think thats a topic worth discussing rather than all the industries that circle it because at the end of the day that's what this forum is about, Architecture. Everything else goes into it and it has too for it to get off the ground, but the fun thing about architecture is that it can be discussed without all those things and be touched on purely for architectures sake which I think is sometimes missed here. If I want to talk real estate then I will go somewhere to talk real estate. If I want to talk about oil then I will go somewhere to talk about oil. Hell architect's thrive on surrounding themselves with experts from other fields because by default we are generalist by nature. I really do appreciate swtsig's insight on the matter, but it's the timing of the insight. I mean the project literally just begun and already he foretells of it's impeding doom and that's a bit daft. Now if the project got canceled and you have insider info on why, how, and what then that's the perfect time to play that card, but why now? Why not shelve comments like that until they actually happen and for now discuss the actual project, the actual building?! This isn't for this thread either it should be for all of them. Just because you have the opinion at hand doesn't mean you have to use it. Many of these kinds of assessments are untimely and purely speculative. When the spaghetti hits the fan then we will deal with that then. By being a professional you should know when it is best to properly display your knowledge of a particular topic because since you do work in that field your comments hold weight!

Edited by Luminare
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Reality = doom and gloom

Got it.

However I find it humorous that the comment I made that sparked this conversation specifically mentioned that last I had heard this project was moving forward yet I'm getting reamed for simply questioning if that is still the case due to the economic environment. Not even predicting it wouldn't get built, just lobbing a harmless question and boom - here comes the cavalry. Never mind the fact that in the past week I've mentioned two very cool projects in the works that have had zero public run (to my knowledge at least).

I also find it humorous that just a couple of weeks ago I was labeled as the "Matt Bullard of HAIF" since I was a complete houston homer that had blinders on to houstonp problems in Houston Boom thread. This place is great.

One last thing - the reason I often come off as negative is bc very few people on here actually care about learning how these projects come together or the machinations involved to get a development moving forward. There's a real "head in the sand" mentality - as if you people believe that if you ignore complexities of financing and analyzing and budgeting a project - something every single project must go through - that somehow things will just magically work and you can gleam over photos of cranes and mat pours and soil samples. I get that this is an architecture board and that many of you simply don't care but it's funny to see the folks with almost zero frame of reference in development (and believe me I'm no expert) label those of us that do as "doom and gloom"

Oh Ya.... Stonian.... It was Samsung. Happy now?

Edited by swtsig
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I think that it's important to have the insight swtsig brings to this forum, and I'm sure we all appreciate it on some level. I understand that some people (including myself) don't care as much about the ins and outs of the way these projects happen as much as I'm sure some others do, but I certainly don't mind reading it...and then when I realize it's not my particular cup of tea, moving on. There are people on here who care very much about these things as well as the architecture and location parts of it. The same goes for oil prices. While they may not be directly the preferred topic of conversation, and I personally don't care to read some of it...it does have a place for discussion in this forum (although it can get to feel like too much at times, but that's just the nature of human beings on the internet). 

 

 

Edited by por favor gracias
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How is that with anticipated 70,000-60,000 additional jobs in that year?

 

As you quoted me, I said a slowdown was in our midst. Not a collapse. If it really is 60,000, the job growth just got slashed in half. Like I said, investors have been spooked. They are watching this fall closely. This funny stat keeps getting tossed around on this forum that only 40% of the Houston market is the oil industry... yea? What about the 60% that is indirectly affected by this drop... the real estate market, the construction market, the local banking/financing industry, the retail market where all those oil employees spend their hard earned cash...

 

 

 

Thanks for the heads up on the release of the CBRE report Triton but I'm with Luminare on this one.

I work for CBRE. People spend their lives developing that report. The stats were clear that a slowdown is ahead. It included the possibility of a substantial drop in the housing market.

 

 

 

swtsig has repeatedly been 'negative nancy' more often than not. He comes across as someone too busy looking for signs of a bust to even enjoy the boom.

I would have to disagree. Most people on this forum were quite positive about this market just 5 months back. Hell, I'm still bullish for the Houston market long term but it is so incredibly obvious that a slowdown will occur for 2015.

 

 

 

It's reassuring to remember that Houston still grew at a good clip from 2004-2008 when oil prices hoovered in the $50-$60 range

That's when oil was at its peak!! I remember paying $100 to fill up my truck during the summer of 2008.

 

 

 

There's a real "head in the sand" mentality - as if you people believe that if you ignore complexities of financing and analyzing and budgeting a project - something every single project must go through - that somehow things will just magically work and you can gleam over photos of cranes and mat pours and soil samples. 

:lol: I think you hit the nail on the head. This forum is more about design and less about the economics behind a project. Hell, economics 101 seems to go out the door on this forum most of the time. Everyone is just racing to build supertalls!! Forget economics, we should build a 300 story tower so we can say we are the tallest!!! YEAH!

 

It's okay. We can point back to these comments in a year, swtsig.  ;)

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