kylejack Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) The bungalows that are immediately adjacent to the museum building should not be demolished, as they play a primary role in the scalar relationship between the building and its original neighborhood context, which is central to the architectural experience.In fact, some of the surrounding bungalows originally sat on the museum building site. Renzo Piano and Dominique deMenil chose to have these houses moved (not demolished), in order to fill in vacant lots in the blocks around the museum site. What vacant lots? The blocks around the current museum site were....bungalows! Yes, bungalows in every direction from the current Menil Collection site, as well as bungalows on the current Menil Collection site. Yes, some of the adjacent bungalows are already gone (ie where the Cy Twombly Gallery is located). You've already said things that I know are false, so I'm going to need citations on future claims. There were bungalows on the Cy Twombly site definitely as late as 1981 (the same year Piano was hired, and a decade after Rothko Chapel had already replaced existing bungalows), and Dominique de Menil was buying up land in these blocks in the 1980s. If the bungalows left at some point after 1981 and before the main Menil Collection opened in 1987, it was by her hand. Cite some sources that back up what you say, because the historic aerials are not telling the same tale. Edited February 12, 2009 by kylejack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strickn Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) I very much suspect your zeal is misplaced, kylejack. Piano is not on the project for two reasons. First, this is a campus plan. Chipperfield, AFAIR - thinking I read that any of the previous finalists could be hired to work on the actual gallery expansions - will not be designing blobs of physical structure but of rationale. Second, Piano already has a reputation about the Menil. He's lately been hired to expand Fort Worth's Kimbell, and since Kahn is worshiped, being judged to have done a Kimbell expansion artfully would offer him a bigger chance to move on up in the architectural pantheon of how timeless you are. I guess he will be spreading himself thick on that commission. Edited February 12, 2009 by strickn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan the Man Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 What vacant lots? The blocks around the current museum site were....bungalows! Yes, bungalows in every direction from the current Menil Collection site, as well as bungalows on the current Menil Collection site.You've already said things that I know are false, so I'm going to need citations on future claims. There were bungalows on the Cy Twombly site definitely as late as 1981 (the same year Piano was hired, and a decade after Rothko Chapel had already replaced existing bungalows), and Dominique de Menil was buying up land in these blocks in the 1980s. If the bungalows left at some point after 1981 and before the main Menil Collection opened in 1987, it was by her hand. Cite some sources that back up what you say, because the historic aerials are not telling the same tale. The house-moving story was part of Renzo Piano's lecture at the 20th anniversary of the Menil on April 21, 2007. If what he said was false, I apologize for repeating it and trying to present it as fact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Maybe they could resurrect and modify the design for the unbuilt Menil guest house by Legoretta that was planned to have been east of the museum. It would have made an interesting contrast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strickn Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Contrast, yes, but whether it's really of interest is troublesome since it's not even subtly different than what Legorreta might have proposed for anywhere. This design's strongest color is the red flag that it basically passes on specific interaction with the surroundings. Ricardo drew a blank this time.Thanks for the relevant link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strickn Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 It would take a heck of a lot of modification; so much that it wouldn't really be able to be called that house anymore. It would lose whatever purity the architect aimed to introduce. Fortunately this particular kind of purity is lost on that neighborly neighborhood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 What about the previous bungalows that were plowed under to create the current Menil? I don't see why plowing some to the South would make things all that much worse. There's still plenty of neighborhood to go around.The bungalows that are immediately adjacent to the museum building should not be demolished, as they play a primary role in the scalar relationship between the building and its original neighborhood context, which is central to the architectural experience.In fact, some of the surrounding bungalows originally sat on the museum building site. Renzo Piano and Dominique deMenil chose to have these houses moved (not demolished), in order to fill in vacant lots in the blocks around the museum site. This move ensured that everything in the vicinity was relatively the same scale, and helped the new museum building fit into the surrounding area.Yes, some of the adjacent bungalows are already gone (ie where the Cy Twombly Gallery is located). However, Piano was careful to design this building to be the same scale as the museum building and the remaining adjacent bungalows. Hopefully the new architect will keep this concept in mind when the new buildings are designed.Much of the museum building site was occupied by a moderate sized apartment complex which faced on Mandell. It was demolished (if I recall correctly) circa 1983-84. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Much of the museum building site was occupied by a moderate sized apartment complex which faced on Mandell. It was demolished (if I recall correctly) circa 1983-84.Less than 30% of the current main museum building. The rest was bungalows. Cy Twombly site was all bungalows as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Less than 30% of the current main museum building. The rest was bungalows. Cy Twombly site was all bungalows as well.Just curious - where did you come up with that figure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Just curious - where did you come up with that figure?historicaerials.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkingMan Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 The journal Cite recently had an article on the Menil expansion: link. It indicates that the Menil had been reviewing potential campus masterplans, not only from David Chipperfield, but also from Madrid firms Herreros Arquitectos and Mansilla / Tunon, and the Boston firm Office d'A. They, apparently, would be in the running for design of the new buildings, once the Menil reaches that stage.I've found some basic renderings of some of the other firms' masterplan proposals:- Mansilla and Tunon- Herreros ArquitectosNothing yet from d'A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) There both hideous, but I like the first design better. (first link) It comes with a tower (look closely). Edited June 9, 2009 by UpuPUp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Mansilon and Tunon proposal (tower boxed in r-e-d). Herreros Arquitecos MasterPlan proposal Edited June 9, 2009 by UpuPUp! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 The journal Cite recently had an article on the Menil expansion: link. It indicates that the Menil had been reviewing potential campus masterplans, not only from David Chipperfield, but also from Madrid firms Herreros Arquitectos and Mansilla / Tunon, and the Boston firm Office d'A. They, apparently, would be in the running for design of the new buildings, once the Menil reaches that stage.I've found some basic renderings of some of the other firms' masterplan proposals:- Mansilla and Tunon- Herreros ArquitectosNothing yet from d'A.What's up with all those mid-rises from Herreros?I want to ask why the Menil is expanding that they would need all that room, but I guess I'll go do some reading to find out myself...(I do know they have lots of stuff in storage, but that much?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnmcbarnacle Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) What's up with all those mid-rises from Herreros?I want to ask why the Menil is expanding that they would need all that room, but I guess I'll go do some reading to find out myself...(I do know they have lots of stuff in storage, but that much?)Towers of Traffic dude. Towers of Traffic.Those are all residential buildings. The cool thing is that one of the drawings shades all the properties that the Menil apparently owns around there. I had no idea their holdings were that vast. It's a good thing. And if the Menil wants to build towers of traffic I'm cool with it.Interestingly both drawings show large residential components. If they doze Richmont Square, it makes sense to replace it with some income producing properties and be able to design and build those properties as part of a larger vision for the area. Pretty cool if you ask me. Edited June 9, 2009 by capnmcbarnacle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) I can't find a copy online, however my Univ. St. Thomas alumni wife received in the mail yesterday a flyer detailing the UST 2010 and 2020 vision plan.It included, I believe, 3-4 blocks worth of new buildings in the area including a nursing school and additional dorm.As the other dominant property owner in that area, the master planned growth in that super block could be quite something in the next decade. Edited June 9, 2009 by Highway6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Keep in mind that Menil is always free and holds a lot of events, so the residential elements are a mandatory component to keep the museums subsidized. Not sure if I mentioned earlier in the thread, but Menil is a great landlord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strickn Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 A university (not this one) uncle of mine said that the Southern way to do things is smaller and more personal than Northern institutions are comfortable with. Compare the Menil, Phillips, Witte and Kimbell to, say, the Frick, Morgan, Albright-Knox and the Stewart Gardner fossil (just because by law nothing can be moved around doesn't make it less impersonal). The Menil is even a nice landlord.But these designs' refinement is too hamfisted. The designers think the point is to be modern and sedate. But neither of their buildings have any human tactile qualities, even the 'green' mesh grid. The culture is wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strickn Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Disconnect.Sure there's a layer in which the design must connect the neighborhood, but on this equally lasting level, they've disconnected. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Menil 1, originally uploaded by Highway6. Highway6 takes the latest trend in photography (HDR) and applies it to the oldest method in photography (black and white). The result really brings out light and shadow that couldn't be seen before. Very Guy Noir!Highway6 posted this picture in the HAIF Photo Pool on Flickr. You can add you photos to the group. Just click here: HAIF Houston Photo Pool on Flickr . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor Posted June 22, 2009 Share Posted June 22, 2009 Menil 1, originally uploaded by Highway6. Highway6 takes the latest trend in photography (HDR) and applies it to the oldest method in photography (black and white). The result really brings out light and shadow that couldn't be seen before. Very Guy Noir!Highway6 posted this picture in the HAIF Photo Pool on Flickr. You can add you photos to the group. Just click here: HAIF Houston Photo Pool on Flickr . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 The car park along Alabama would be strengthened with the new bookshop, cafe, and auditorium nearby. The key change would be to connect West Main across the site [to Yupon] through the area occupied by the northern end of Richmont Square. The complete street grid would surround a new green space that would also be made possible by the clearing of the north side of the apartments. It would connect, slightly off axis, with the current Menil park between the main building and the Rothko. The Drawing Institute and Study Center and Single Artist Studios would be sited around the new green space. And along Richmond itself, the plan calls for dense residential and commercial development.***Director Josef Helfenstein told listeners that Chipperfield’s plan has already been approved by the Menil board.Swamplot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trymahjong Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) Neartown also heard about the Master Plan (done by David Chipperfield of London-- I think) at the Menil--highlights of future plans-- will build an auditorium, another single artist gallery-- upgrade current green space --committed to open and green spaces-- the Richmont apts are owned by Menil and generate income-- plans would demolish that and put in new large green space surrounded by income producing property with height limit of 3 stories-- apparently lots of property was bought in that area with that in mind-- no high rises-- the dark gray places (Richmont apt-- Old Telephone building in white) in picture are owned by Menil--gray with white dot owned by Rothko---old telephone building at Mandel and Richmond will be torn down and a new storage building will replace (maybe converting existing bungalow)--some of the streets will be put back in to improve traffic flow--all bungalows are to be preserved if possible--current parking on Alabama will stay Edited October 29, 2009 by trymahjong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Menil is one of the few neighborhoods I've actually been to in Montrose, but according to Google Maps, there's no streets that are currently closed and will be reopened per the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Menil is one of the few neighborhoods I've actually been to in Montrose, but according to Google Maps, there's no streets that are currently closed and will be reopened per the plan.The OP says streets will be put back in, not reopened. Richmont Square apartments are getting torn down. Which means Colquitt, W Main, and Mulberry can be pushed through that area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtticaFlinch Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The OP says streets will be put back in, not reopened. Richmont Square apartments are getting torn down. Which means Colquitt, W Main, and Mulberry can be pushed through that area.Yep, the big block on the bottom right of the map in the photo on the first post is Richmont Square.I can't say I'll miss Richmont. They don't allow dogs which puts them in my doghouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Note two topics on Menil master plan merged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dachmation Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Neartown also heard about the Master Plan (done by David Chipperfield of London-- I think) at the Menil--highlights of future plans-- will build an auditorium, another single artist gallery-- upgrade current green space --committed to open and green spaces-- the Richmont apts are owned by Menil and generate income-- plans would demolish that and put in new large green space surrounded by income producing property with height limit of 3 stories-- apparently lots of property was bought in that area with that in mind-- no high rises-- the dark gray places (Richmont apt-- Old Telephone building in white) in picture are owned by Menil--gray with white dot owned by Rothko---old telephone building at Mandel and Richmond will be torn down and a new storage building will replace (maybe converting existing bungalow)--some of the streets will be put back in to improve traffic flow--all bungalows are to be preserved if possible--current parking on Alabama will stayThis is the plan the Menil has accepted and will implement--how soon will be see changes begin? The Menil chose not to purchase the HEB property? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 What do you mean HEB property? There isn't a HEB in Montrose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 What do you mean HEB property? There isn't a HEB in Montrose...There is a Fiesta nearby. Perhaps this is what he meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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