Texas Central Project

[cspwal]

Breaking train news!

http://www.khou.com/news/local/officials-northwest-mall-preferred-location-for-houston-bullet-train-station/514889177

Quote

Texas Central announced Monday that Northwest Mall is the “preferred location” for the Houston bullet train station.

 

https://www.texascentral.com/2018/02/05/houston-bullet-train-station-location-announced/

 

First look at "Station Location Name" Station!

 

[j_cuevas713]

I think this is a great location. This is going to encourage a light rail line to Downtown from Uptown. Plus you can extend the build out of Uptown because of the BRT line with more stores, etc. This is exciting! Not a fan of dallas but I'm def a fan of Houston becoming a major hub for many economic reasons. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by j_cuevas713

[gmac]

Name it "Boondoggle, Never Gonna Happen" station.

[mfastx]

1 hour ago, j_cuevas713 said:

I think this is a great location. This is going to encourage a light rail line to Downtown from Uptown. Plus you can extend the build out of Uptown because of the BRT line with more stores, etc. This is exciting! Not a fan of dallas but I'm def a fan of Houston becoming a major hub for many economic reasons. 

 

Strongly disagree, this is a terrible location.  If we can't even get light rail to the Galleria, what makes you think we would get it out here anytime soon?  To be honest it doesn't matter that much, because most people would just drive to the station anyway, but there is definitely a market share of business travelers this won't capture due to the inconvenient location in Houston.  If the station is in a random area of town, there's less of an incentive to take the train over flying.  If you have to rent a car and drive wherever from the station, might as well rent a car and drive wherever from the airport.  It's a shame because this is such a great project, but this is not a desirable area of town.  

[j_cuevas713]

29 minutes ago, mfastx said:

 

Strongly disagree, this is a terrible location.  If we can't even get light rail to the Galleria, what makes you think we would get it out here anytime soon?  To be honest it doesn't matter that much, because most people would just drive to the station anyway, but there is definitely a market share of business travelers this won't capture due to the inconvenient location in Houston.  If the station is in a random area of town, there's less of an incentive to take the train over flying.  If you have to rent a car and drive wherever from the station, might as well rent a car and drive wherever from the airport.  It's a shame because this is such a great project, but this is not a desirable area of town.  

It's called politics, the same engine running the bullet train. Right now there is no incentive to push for it politically. But once this bullet train gets going then the next thing is going to be how can we connect the region to it. Plus you're comment is looking at things very short sighted. Not desirable RIGHT NOW is true. You could have said the same thing about Memorial City 20 years ago. You think the train is just going to exist with no economic impact? It's going to have a massive impact politically and economically on both cities. It's a great location because it's literally a pivot point in the city. Really this train could help Houston finally get the transit system it deserves.

Edited February 5, 2018 by j_cuevas713

[mollusk]

This isn't a particularly "random" area of town.  It's two or three miles from the Galleria area Uptown (**chokes on marketing name**), 5 miles - ish from downtown, and fewer than ten miles from almost all of the BFEnergy Corridor.  That last five miles into downtown would take a LOT of capital, both political and financial (said the guy who was once very dismissive of the NW Mall site).  If the now being converted into yet another use downtown post office site still had a mostly unused SP passenger station on it, and there wasn't an issue of getting the dedicated tracks to it, that might be a different deal.

[kbates2]

I hate the location too.  If we build rail connecting this to downtown, it will likely end up being at-grade light rail again so it will take 90 minutes to get from Dallas to Houston and then another 30 to get downtown.  I don't think it is the end of the world, but the location does suck.

[Ross]

21 minutes ago, kbates2 said:

I hate the location too.  If we build rail connecting this to downtown, it will likely end up being at-grade light rail again so it will take 90 minutes to get from Dallas to Houston and then another 30 to get downtown.  I don't think it is the end of the world, but the location does suck.

Given the potential routings, I suspect that NW Mall to Downtown on the bullet train would be at least 15 minutes, and the cost would be high enough to be uneconomic for the train owners.

[kbates2]

26 minutes ago, Ross said:

Given the potential routings, I suspect that NW Mall to Downtown on the bullet train would be at least 15 minutes, and the cost would be high enough to be uneconomic for the train owners.

 

Completely understand, if it made economic sense for them, they would do it.  Perfect world and all...

[102IAHexpress]

If built, it will be a huge automobile hub; taxi's, uber's, rental cars. The developers are obviously trying to bring as many cars to the station as possible and this location allows for that. The brand will try to convey convenience as much as possible. I can envision television commercials advertising, easy parking and or valet options. Very doubtful someone will shell out extra cash for the convenience and speed of a bullet train to Houston, only to detrain and wait for a Metro bus or light rail train! lol. 

[Visitor]

If the city could reclaim usage of the Union Pacific rail line ~parallel to Washington, you could easily run passenger rail service along that route and throw in 2-3 stops along the way to encourage local transit. (@shepherd, yale, houston st, etc) Connect it to NW mall site (Is literally across the street) and you have 1 of 3 centers covered. 

 

This at-grade light rail intermixed with vehicle traffic is incredibly inefficient.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Visitor

[Ross]

4 hours ago, Visitor said:

If the city could reclaim usage of the Union Pacific rail line ~parallel to Washington, you could easily run passenger rail service along that route and throw in 2-3 stops along the way to encourage local transit. (@shepherd, yale, houston st, etc) Connect it to NW mall site (Is literally across the street) and you have 1 of 3 centers covered. 

 

This at-grade light rail intermixed with vehicle traffic is incredibly inefficient.

Reclaim? That's been UP ROW since before the City expanded that direction. It's also a very busy rail route for freight. UP won't be giving it up anytime soon.

[IronTiger]

LOL to the "why not downtown" arguments. If this is supposed to be an airport alternative, why does it have to be downtown? If HAIF had existed back in the 1960s, would there be just whole pages of complaints about the future Hobby Airport being outside of the Loop?

[kbates2]

56 minutes ago, IronTiger said:

LOL to the "why not downtown" arguments. If this is supposed to be an airport alternative, why does it have to be downtown? If HAIF had existed back in the 1960s, would there be just whole pages of complaints about the future Hobby Airport being outside of the Loop?

 

LOL do trains need runways? 

[Luminare]

1 hour ago, IronTiger said:

LOL to the "why not downtown" arguments. If this is supposed to be an airport alternative, why does it have to be downtown? If HAIF had existed back in the 1960s, would there be just whole pages of complaints about the future Hobby Airport being outside of the Loop?

 

As someone who used trains extensively while in Germany (including their ICE trains (their HSR lines)) trains do not function like airports in the slightest. Airports take you next to a city because there is no real possibility to have a fully effective airport in an urban environment while a train station is a mode of transportation that can take you right up to the front door of an urban environment and further.

 

As for the station location? I can understand why people here will have problems of it. Is it the dream scenario? no (then again to our ideal utopias this project will never match up to our standards). Is it the best possible scenario we could get at this moment? yes. Is it an incredible move politically? yes. Is it pragmatic in the sense that it sets a clear run into the city in the future (which is TCR's long term goal)? yes.

 

These things take time. Again after being in Germany I was able to admire the extensive network that they have, but it also took ages to develop. Lets cut these guys some slack. They are doing the best they can do. Lets also be grateful that we have a current mayor who is making this a priority. Lets be grateful that the city is genuinely moving inward when all historical indicators of success in Houston says it should just continuously expand outward. Rather than throwing tomatoes at all this for not being our perfect utopian visions lets give it the support it needs so it can morph into something even better in the future.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Luminare

[ADCS]

They also got to piggyback off the existing networks, too, since Deutsche Bahn owns all the tracks. That would never happen here, though, because the motivation for building new rails  in the United States has always been primarily about land speculation and development, not simply moving people as in the already densely-populated Western and Central Europe. Heck, the station in Roans Prairie is a gleaming sign that this tradition has not faded in the least bit.

 

High quality train stations function more like better shopping malls than airports. They are commercial centers with a transit element. The NW Mall location is primed for redevelopment, and the TCR Station will be the anchor of what we will soon call the "Upper Post Oak District" or something similar. Prepare to see the low density warehouses on Post Oak replaced with apartments, townhouses and high-end retail, similar to what's going on north of Afton Oaks. Somerset Green is just the beginning.

[mollusk]

2 hours ago, IronTiger said:

LOL to the "why not downtown" arguments. If this is supposed to be an airport alternative, why does it have to be downtown? If HAIF had existed back in the 1960s, would there be just whole pages of complaints about the future Hobby Airport being outside of the Loop?

 

uh, Hobby started being the main Houston airport during the Coolidge administration. 

 

And there were complaints in the 1960s about IAH being so far out in the country. (map from 1962)

 

(dang kids... they need to get off my lawn...)

[Luminare]

3 minutes ago, mollusk said:

 

uh, Hobby started being the main Houston airport during the Coolidge administration. 

 

And there were complaints in the 1960s about IAH being so far out in the country. (map from 1962)

 

(dang kids... they need to get off my lawn...)

 

Thats an awesome map! Love looking at stuff like this. Plus for using it as empirical evidence.

[mfastx]

20 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

It's called politics, the same engine running the bullet train. Right now there is no incentive to push for it politically. But once this bullet train gets going then the next thing is going to be how can we connect the region to it. Plus you're comment is looking at things very short sighted. Not desirable RIGHT NOW is true. You could have said the same thing about Memorial City 20 years ago. You think the train is just going to exist with no economic impact? It's going to have a massive impact politically and economically on both cities. It's a great location because it's literally a pivot point in the city. Really this train could help Houston finally get the transit system it deserves.

 

Understood and agree with most of what you said.  It's just a minor annoyance and I understand that the incremental cost associated with taking it downtown would likely be greater than the incremental return.  Real estate is likely a large component of funding this project, and there's more "opportunity" at the NW mall site than in downtown.  I really get all that.  My only concern is that unless the train station is significantly closer to a large employment center than Hobby, many people will still opt to fly.  If you have to schlep your way though 610/I-10 traffic to reach your final destination after you get off the train, what's the advantage to that over doing the same thing from Hobby?  For Westerners it's better geographically, but the ideal location obviously would be a station in Downtown.  Not only can you have the same garages with parking, rental cars and other ground transportation, but you also have the option of taking light rail or simply walking to your final destination, as there is much more within walking distance in downtown than anywhere else.  You don't capture that market share if your station is outside of the city.  I still support the project of course, I just felt compelled to point out the obvious shortcomings of the Houston station location (Dallas' is much better). 

 

17 hours ago, Ross said:

Given the potential routings, I suspect that NW Mall to Downtown on the bullet train would be at least 15 minutes, and the cost would be high enough to be uneconomic for the train owners.

 

It'd probably be more like 5 minutes.  Acela takes only about 10-15 minutes to get from Rte 128 station to Back Bay in the Boston area, a distance far greater than NW Mall to Uptown.  And this would be faster.  

 

2 hours ago, IronTiger said:

LOL to the "why not downtown" arguments. If this is supposed to be an airport alternative, why does it have to be downtown? If HAIF had existed back in the 1960s, would there be just whole pages of complaints about the future Hobby Airport being outside of the Loop?

 

It's supposed to be better than just an airport alternative.  It has to be if this project is going to be successful.  

Edited February 6, 2018 by mfastx

[Sparrow]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 11:21 AM, cspwal said:

Breaking train news!

http://www.khou.com/news/local/officials-northwest-mall-preferred-location-for-houston-bullet-train-station/514889177

 

https://www.texascentral.com/2018/02/05/houston-bullet-train-station-location-announced/

 

For all of the why-not-downtown folks, I'd offer encouragement in that slight angle the track takes into the NW Mall station. Extrapolate that out and guess where you end up--north Downtown. If the HSR is met with a high degree of success, perhaps TCP is already setting up the possibility of extending to a second Houston station located Downtown. 

 

(You might also want to buy one of Mr. Musk's Boring hats to help the cause).

[ADCS]

I think it's not to outlandish to think that once political support is on board, the tracks will continue through to the Katy Freeway, run down the middle of the (newly reconstructed) freeway and into the Theater District to a new terminus connecting with Amtrak. It'll just take time and cooperation with TxDOT on the inner loop Katy reconstruction to make it feasible.

[cspwal]

I mean part of the grand plan on Texas Central's part must include Galveston and New Orleans - they probably have a napkin with a complicated network scribbled out, reproduced here:

 

[102IAHexpress]

12 hours ago, Luminare said:

 

As someone who used trains extensively while in Germany (including their ICE trains (their HSR lines)) trains do not function like airports in the slightest. Airports take you next to a city because there is no real possibility to have a fully effective airport in an urban environment while a train station is a mode of transportation that can take you right up to the front door of an urban environment and further.

 

This is mostly false. There are over 5K public airports in the US. Not all of them are huge airports that require them to be far away from a city center. And actually some large airports are very close to the city center, like Las Vegas airport.

 

Many small European town train stations function like small regional airports. Both get you pretty darn close to the town's center but not right in the center.

 

What we have in the NW Mall "station" is similar to a small regional airport/small train town. It has just one airline/train line that flies/travels to one other station/airport several times per day fairly close to the town center, but not as close as a huge capital city train station. 

 

I think you would be more correct if you said, -Large- airports do not function like -Large- train stations. Also, small train stations are sometimes in the town's center and sometimes are NOT in a town's center. 

[ADCS]

20 hours ago, cspwal said:

I mean part of the grand plan on Texas Central's part must include Galveston and New Orleans - they probably have a napkin with a complicated network scribbled out, reproduced here:

 

Get rid of the direct line between Dallas and Austin, stretch the main route east of CS, and then have a spur that goes Roans Prairie/CS/Austin/SA, and I think you have the basic setup of the long-term network.

 

 

CS in 30 min, Austin in 55, San Antonio in 90.

[cspwal]

Ooooh I like that one better.  I always forget how close CS is to Austin.  This would also make the pretty large station they're showing make more sense - if it is going to serve all those routes, of course it will need to be similar in size to the termini.

[mfastx]

I'm not sure it makes much sense to not have a line that hits San Antonio, San Marcos, Austin, Round Rock, Temple, Waco and Ft. Worth.  Lots of ridership potential there all in a straight line. 

[cspwal]

I think the idea behind the T-bone design is to double the connected cities with a shorter amount of track than the first line

[gmac]

Even better, the train will eventually be powered by unicorn wings.

 

This project will not happen for many years, if ever.

[cspwal]

It's a private venture.  Do we know what status their funding is at?  If they think they can make a billion dollars doing this, it will happen

[gmac]

No way on earth they should be granted any eminent domain relief for a private venture. As long as the landowners in the countryside between here and Dallas don't want this, it won't and shouldn't happen.

[EllenOlenska]

Eschewing "should", private companies have and will use eminent domain, so this project could and might happen. 

Also, I like trains. 

[102IAHexpress]

4 hours ago, gmac said:

No way on earth they should be granted any eminent domain relief for a private venture.

 

On this point the people of the great State of Texas disagree with you. Private railway companies specifically have the right to exercise eminent domain. I would refer you to Tex. Transp. Code Ann. § 112.002 (Vernon):

 

(a) A railroad company has the right to succession.

(b) A railroad company may:

  (1) sue, be sued, plead, and be impleaded in its corporate name;

  (2) have and use a seal and alter the seal at will;

  (3) receive and convey persons and property on its railway by any mechanical power, including the use of steam;

  (4) regulate the time and manner in which, and the compensation for which, passengers and property are transported, subject to the provisions of law;

  (5) exercise the power of eminent domain for the purposes prescribed by this subtitle or Subtitle D;

  (6) purchase, hold, and use all property as necessary for the construction and use of its railway, stations, and other accommodations necessary to accomplish company objectives, and convey that property when no longer required for railway use; and

  (7) take, hold, and use property granted to the company to aid in the construction and use of its railway, and convey that property in a manner consistent with the terms of the grant when the property is no longer required for railway use.

[gmac]

I'm in favor of a good old bloody fight to the death over this useless boondoggle. Plus, I hope many of you lose your homes and property in similar fashion. You know, just to be fair

[Nate99]

I'd still love to see the business case around this thing supporting itself. Eminent domain or not, it seems like a long shot that boils down to "I like trains". 

[ADCS]

17 hours ago, cspwal said:

It's a private venture.  Do we know what status their funding is at?  If they think they can make a billion dollars doing this, it will happen

 

With respect to funding - I do not think any of the investors are under the impression that the system will be profitable within 10-15 years. That's not the main point - it's for JR and Japan as a whole to demonstrate its Shinkansen technology for export markets. That's why they're pushing this so quickly - they want to be done and operational years before California gets its HSR going.

 

The thought is that if this can be done, even if the system is unprofitable at the beginning, Japanese HSR technology and operational processes will become standard in the US. You can already see this at work - major changes in FRA regulatory practices have already taken place as a result of their work with JR in furtherance of the TCR project. If that happens, then Japan's in the driver's seat for design and development of the real honeypot - the DC - Boston HSR line that will likely be on the table in the 2025 - 2030 range.

[Visitor]

On 2/6/2018 at 5:23 AM, Ross said:

Reclaim? That's been UP ROW since before the City expanded that direction. It's also a very busy rail route for freight. UP won't be giving it up anytime soon.

Considering it is well within city limits I would venture to guess they were given exclusive ROW. As someone who lives ON that ROW, there is definitely capacity for transit rail, on a 30 or 15 minute cadence. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Visitor

[102IAHexpress]

11 hours ago, gmac said:

I'm in favor of a good old bloody fight to the death over this useless boondoggle.

 

I wasn't aware a private venture could be a boondoggle. I suppose technically it can. But what do you care? Do you have input on better ways for Texas Central to spend their own money? Is there anyone else's money you want to control too? Personally, If Texas Central wants to spend private money for this rail line, so be it. As long as no public money is used then I don't have a problem with it. If you think this rail line is a boondoggle, then what's your opinion on Elon Musk sending a Tesla into outer space? 

 

Regarding eminent domain, as a libertarian I wouldn't have voted to extend eminent domain to certain private companies. However, libertarian or not, we live in a democracy. The people's representatives have debated it, and have enacted it into law. It's the current law of the State of Texas. 

[j_cuevas713]

20 minutes ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

I wasn't aware a private venture could be a boondoggle. I suppose technically it can. But what do you care? Do you have input on better ways for Texas Central to spend their own money? Is there anyone else's money you want to control too? Personally, If Texas Central wants to spend private money for this rail line, so be it. As long as no public money is used then I don't have a problem with it. If you think this rail line is a boondoggle, then what's your opinion on Elon Musk sending a Tesla into outer space? 

 

Regarding eminent domain, as a libertarian I wouldn't have voted to extend eminent domain to certain private companies. However, libertarian or not, we live in a democracy. The people's representatives have debated it, and have enacted it into law. It's the current law of the State of Texas. 

Hell yeah solid point

[Nate99]

3 hours ago, ADCS said:

 

With respect to funding - I do not think any of the investors are under the impression that the system will be profitable within 10-15 years. That's not the main point - it's for JR and Japan as a whole to demonstrate its Shinkansen technology for export markets. That's why they're pushing this so quickly - they want to be done and operational years before California gets its HSR going.

 

The thought is that if this can be done, even if the system is unprofitable at the beginning, Japanese HSR technology and operational processes will become standard in the US. You can already see this at work - major changes in FRA regulatory practices have already taken place as a result of their work with JR in furtherance of the TCR project. If that happens, then Japan's in the driver's seat for design and development of the real honeypot - the DC - Boston HSR line that will likely be on the table in the 2025 - 2030 range.

 

Getting HSR through the NE corridor would be a challenge that isn't going to have a very good analog to HSR in Texas. The tech wouldn't be the issue. I don't know what kind of timetable would be contemplated here, but HSR Texas as a multi-billion dollar R&D concept for possible positive cash flow of a larger venture (after a much larger cash investment) in 20 years doesn't sound like the kind of deal private money is going to chase. 

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but I would like to see the math. 

[gmac]

3 hours ago, 102IAHexpress said:

 

I wasn't aware a private venture could be a boondoggle. I suppose technically it can. But what do you care? Do you have input on better ways for Texas Central to spend their own money? Is there anyone else's money you want to control too? Personally, If Texas Central wants to spend private money for this rail line, so be it. As long as no public money is used then I don't have a problem with it. If you think this rail line is a boondoggle, then what's your opinion on Elon Musk sending a Tesla into outer space? 

 

Regarding eminent domain, as a libertarian I wouldn't have voted to extend eminent domain to certain private companies. However, libertarian or not, we live in a democracy. The people's representatives have debated it, and have enacted it into law. It's the current law of the State of Texas. 

 

If you think this is going to happen without the eventual infusion of taxpayer dollars, you're deluded.

 

Elon Musk's space ventures aren't trying to invade on private property, AFAIK, so I don't care how he wastes his money.

[mollusk]

4 hours ago, Visitor said:

Considering it is well within city limits I would venture to guess they were given exclusive ROW. As someone who lives ON that ROW, there is definitely capacity for transit rail, on a 30 or 15 minute cadence. 

 

Traditional railroad right of way is owned by the respective railroads in the same way any other property owner owns theirs (TCR is only getting easements).  They don't like to share.

 

Urban rail transit generally runs on such a short frequency and at such a speed between stations that it and freight would be stepping all over each other.   It's also vanishingly unlikely that UP is willing to put up with the disruption that would occur with trying to put dedicated transit lines either above or below its ROW inside the loop, particularly since the generally parallel Katy ROW is now mostly a bike lane - regardless of how practical an idea that might really be.

 

[cspwal]

44 minutes ago, gmac said:

 

If you think this is going to happen without the eventual infusion of taxpayer dollars, you're deluded.

 

Elon Musk's space ventures aren't trying to invade on private property, AFAIK, so I don't care how he wastes his money.

 

What is the sequence of events that lead to public financing of this rail line?

 

I see three possible scenarios for this train:

1. The line becomes successful and makes some already wealthy people richer
2. The line becomes popular (lots of riders) but doesn't break even, leading to the public wanting state funding to avoid it closing
3. The line is a flop - no one rides it, so it closes as a failed business venture.

I think the only bad situation would be #3 if the state subsidized the failed train to keep operating.  But even then, the major costs - building the infrastructure - will have been paid for by the investors of TCR.

[IronTiger]

5 hours ago, cspwal said:

 

What is the sequence of events that lead to public financing of this rail line?

 

I see three possible scenarios for this train:

1. The line becomes successful and makes some already wealthy people richer
2. The line becomes popular (lots of riders) but doesn't break even, leading to the public wanting state funding to avoid it closing
3. The line is a flop - no one rides it, so it closes as a failed business venture.

I think the only bad situation would be #3 if the state subsidized the failed train to keep operating.  But even then, the major costs - building the infrastructure - will have been paid for by the investors of TCR.

Nah two is also bad because it will basically confirm what everyone in the counter-rail group is thinking, that it's just a long-range con to scam taxpayers and not actually deliver a functional, profitable private rail line. Already we've been going from "Hey, this is privately funded and operated, we're not like California here, ha ha" to "Yes, it's privately funded but have you considered eminent domain? It's only a narrow little strip!"

 

6 hours ago, mollusk said:

 

 

Urban rail transit generally runs on such a short frequency and at such a speed between stations that it and freight would be stepping all over each other.   It's also vanishingly unlikely that UP is willing to put up with the disruption that would occur with trying to put dedicated transit lines either above or below its ROW inside the loop, particularly since the generally parallel Katy ROW is now mostly a bike lane - regardless of how practical an idea that might really be.

 

 

No way would anyone living near the Heights Bike Path would allow HSR down it. In addition to having needing far more ROW than the Katy railroad ever had, it had all sorts of twisty turns that would make it impractical to freight and HSR alike.

 

On 2/6/2018 at 10:10 AM, mollusk said:

 

uh, Hobby started being the main Houston airport during the Coolidge administration. 

 

And there were complaints in the 1960s about IAH being so far out in the country. (map from 1962)

 

Whoops, critical research error on my part. For some reason I read Hobby opening in 1969, not IAH. Point still stands though. If this is anywhere close to a major hub as a contingent of this thread believes it to be, downtown is neither necessary or pragmatic.

[cspwal]

My point was that even if the train turned out to need money it would be after construction - and public financing of anything except where the track crosses highways should be highly scrutinized.  The expensive part of any train is building the thing

 

NW mall is way closer to being a hub than either two airports; I did fly out of Hobby recently after flying out of IAH a bunch - I forgot just how easy it is to get to from downtown - I made a round trip in 20 minutes...granted it was 4 am

[IronTiger]

2 hours ago, cspwal said:

My point was that even if the train turned out to need money it would be after construction - and public financing of anything except where the track crosses highways should be highly scrutinized.  The expensive part of any train is building the thing

All railroads cost money to operate and maintain, and very few make a profit. Even the MTA (New York City's transit system) only gains back about 50% what they put in the budget. If the HSR was built and didn't make a profit, the state could sell the line to Union Pacific, who could use it as a super-fast way of getting from Dallas to Houston, and definitely turn a profit off of it.

[mollusk]

The reason I brought up the Katy line was that it would have allowed a relatively easy detour for the UP main line freight traffic if they ever wanted to do a major rework of the line near Washington.  You're right - it's nowhere near adequate for TCR.

 

FWIW, Hobby's further outside the loop than Northwest Mall, and even further from the Galleria area Uptown (**urk**), the BFEnergy Corridor, Westchase, etc.  The big downside to the Northwest Mall site is intuitive street access (said the guy who can walk from work to a downtown station).  

 

Speaking of MKT RR sites of days gone by, the east bank of White Oak Bayou near the Burnett Transit Center isn't built up, and would be relatively easy to get to if one could somehow have the TCR tracks just follow the freeways from Northwest Mall.  The elevated tracks and station would naturally keep it above whatever flood plain you want to specify.  It would also be a good jumping off point for a line to NOLA.  

 

All it would take is a visit from The Money Fairy and we could have cake and pie.

[rechlin]

While I too would prefer a downtown station location, I think there are several points that many of you complaining about the Northwest Mall location aren't understanding, and they are mostly related to Houston being a very decentralized city.

 

First, the population center of Houston is fairly close to the Northwest Mall, so this location puts it about as close to the population center as you can get, minimizing travel distance for the average Houstonian.

 

Second, Houston doesn't have a single "downtown" for business travelers.  While Downtown is technically the biggest business district, Uptown, the TMC, and the Energy Corridor are not far behind, and there are a number of important smaller business districts too.  And this location is definitely better for people going to Uptown and the Energy Corridor, just to name the biggest, and both are locations that are likely to have more business travelers with Dallas than the TMC.

 

Third, a downtown station would increase the total cost of the project by something like 20% (I can't remember the exact number, but it was something along those lines).  If it's not going to increase ridership by that much, it wouldn't make financial sense.

 

Fourth, nothing says they can't build a downtown station later if demand shows it to be worthwhile.

[EllenOlenska]

Man, that theoretical downtown to Northwest plot jaunt everyone is planning is bonkers. 

[samagon]

On 2/8/2018 at 10:31 AM, 102IAHexpress said:

 

 then what's your opinion on Elon Musk sending a Tesla into outer space? 

 

 

Fun facts:

 

1. it wasn't just any tesla roadster that was sent into space, it was his personal tesla roadster.

2. he was speaking at an event I was at a few years back and had brought that very roadster to show off his meaning of persistence, I was allowed to sit in it.

3. some of my dead skin is floating around in outer space.

[ADCS]

19 hours ago, samagon said:

 

3. some of my dead skin is floating around in outer space.

 

We are all made of stardust...