Texas Central Project

[Luminare]

You realize he's perfectly aware of how ridiculous his statements are? He's baiting you guys. Just ignore it damn

 

like moths to a flame

[mollusk]

Those are two of the more offensive comments I've seen in a while. Especially coming from someone who apparently has some level of college education. You obviously don't get out much in rural areas. Those folks aren't stupid, many of them are better educated than you, and they all have far more class. They do tend to see things from their own perspective, which is reasonable, but they are willing to listen, and will change their minds when the arguments are convincing. However, they are never happy when they are told "suck it up, that's how it will be".

 

Crikey, I'm actually agreeing with Ross.  

[Luminare]

Crikey, I'm actually agreeing with Ross.  

 

[Sparrow]

Anyone planning on attending any of the open house meetings that begin tomorrow night?

[BigFootsSocks]

Can we all agree that they should just shut this fb page down? I mean, it's not that I'm surprised by Facebook...I just...I...it's frustrating to see so much ignorance congregated in one place. Maybe that's for the best?

 

https://www.facebook.com/texascentral

[Slick Vik]

Those are two of the more offensive comments I've seen in a while. Especially coming from someone who apparently has some level of college education. You obviously don't get out much in rural areas. Those folks aren't stupid, many of them are better educated than you, and they all have far more class. They do tend to see things from their own perspective, which is reasonable, but they are willing to listen, and will change their minds when the arguments are convincing. However, they are never happy when they are told "suck it up, that's how it will be".

Please don't get sanctimonious with me. You are evidently unaware of the statistical facts.

Rural college-enrollment rates are an often-reported problem, one that periodically yields recommendations from the field on ways this issue could be addressed. Only 17 percent of rural adults 25 or older have a college degree, which is about half the percentage of urban adults. About 31 percent of 18- to 24-year-olds in rural areas were enrolled in higher education in 2009, compared with about 46 percent in urban areas and 42 percent in suburban areas.

http://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?DISPATCHED=true&cid=25983841&item=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.edweek.org%2Fedweek%2Frural_education%2F2013%2F10%2Frural_students_lag_urban_peers_on_college_enrollment_persistence.html

In 1970, there was a 6-point difference between urban and rural counties in the percent of people over 25 years of age who had college degrees. (Rural stood at 5.7 percent; urban was 11.6 percent.)

By 2010, the gap was nearly 15 points, as shown in the chart above.

http://www.dailyyonder.com/college-degree-gap-widens/2012/03/26/3828

[samagon]

Please don't get sanctimonious with me. You are evidently unaware of the statistical facts.

Rural college-enrollment rates are an often-reported problem, one that periodically yields recommendations from the field on ways this issue could be addressed. Only 17 percent of rural adults 25 or older have a college degree, which is about half the percentage of urban adults. About 31 percent of 18- to 24-year-olds in rural areas were enrolled in higher education in 2009, compared with about 46 percent in urban areas and 42 percent in suburban areas.

http://mobile.edweek.org/c.jsp?DISPATCHED=true&cid=25983841&item=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.edweek.org%2Fedweek%2Frural_education%2F2013%2F10%2Frural_students_lag_urban_peers_on_college_enrollment_persistence.html

In 1970, there was a 6-point difference between urban and rural counties in the percent of people over 25 years of age who had college degrees. (Rural stood at 5.7 percent; urban was 11.6 percent.)

By 2010, the gap was nearly 15 points, as shown in the chart above.

http://www.dailyyonder.com/college-degree-gap-widens/2012/03/26/3828

 

You can't judge a person's intelligence based on their level of education.

 

I hope this gets split off into off topic, cause I'm genuinely intrigued to see if you can come up with something that is a real answer, because this ain't it.

[Slick Vik]

You can't judge a person's intelligence based on their level of education.

I hope this gets split off into off topic, cause I'm genuinely intrigued to see if you can come up with something that is a real answer, because this ain't it.

Maybe not but you can judge a level of knowledge (usually)

[mollusk]

(note to self... remember not to feed the trolls...) 

[IronTiger]

Tempting, but no.

[eikonal]

I wasn't following the topic closely, so my question is how likely is this TCR project to be implemented? As I recall there were lots of rail projects in recent years: T-bone, intermodal terminal, commuter trains around Houston, something federally funded, Houston-Galveston 2.0, etc., all had support and enthusiasm, but nothing ever came of them except studies and more studies. I appreciate that TCR is private, but there used to be a private Houston-Galveston train in 1990-s, and it didn't work out either. I think they were trying to have the city take it over, but it fell through. I am just not sure that public transportation can be made to work for profit long term, and there seems to be a lot of ideological opposition in Texas to trains specifically for some reason. Some politicians are already talking against TCR. So given all that are there any particular reasons to believe that this time will be different?

 

And my second question is, assuming it happens, where will be the terminus in Houston? They are saying "near downtown", but I am not sure what that means. I think somebody wanted to buy the USPS building near the current Amtrak station, was it them? Why can't they use the place under the Burnett light rail station, where intermodal terminal was supposed to be?

 

[Slick Vik]

I wasn't following the topic closely, so my question is how likely is this TCR project to be implemented? As I recall there were lots of rail projects in recent years: T-bone, intermodal terminal, commuter trains around Houston, something federally funded, Houston-Galveston 2.0, etc., all had support and enthusiasm, but nothing ever came of them except studies and more studies. I appreciate that TCR is private, but there used to be a private Houston-Galveston train in 1990-s, and it didn't work out either. I think they were trying to have the city take it over, but it fell through. I am just not sure that public transportation can be made to work for profit long term, and there seems to be a lot of ideological opposition in Texas to trains specifically for some reason. Some politicians are already talking against TCR. So given all that are there any particular reasons to believe that this time will be different?

And my second question is, assuming it happens, where will be the terminus in Houston? They are saying "near downtown", but I am not sure what that means. I think somebody wanted to buy the USPS building near the current Amtrak station, was it them? Why can't they use the place under the Burnett light rail station, where intermodal terminal was supposed to be?

Houston to galveston railroad was hoping Union station would be downtown terminus. But Lanier and his cronies changed the baseball stadium plans to hit Union station specifically so trains didn't have a downtown station, particularly a grand one such as that. So texas limited had no hope with a station in the heights. Also insurance costs were sky high but if Union station was available that cost could be eaten as the benefits would be greater.

[IronTiger]

Houston to galveston railroad was hoping Union station would be downtown terminus. But Lanier and his cronies changed the baseball stadium plans to hit Union station specifically so trains didn't have a downtown station, particularly a grand one such as that. So texas limited had no hope with a station in the heights. Also insurance costs were sky high but if Union station was available that cost could be eaten as the benefits would be greater.

I'd take all that with a grain of salt, of course.

[Slick Vik]

I'd take all that with a grain of salt, of course.

You can go talk to the guy that ran texas limited and find out for yourself.

http://m.chron.com/opinion/article/Houston-deserves-better-rail-service-4337295.php

Edited April 9, 2015 by Slick Vik

[Slick Vik]

About this time, the Harris County Sports Authority was created with Jack Rains and Billy Burge running it. They advised my attorney, Roland Chamberlin, and me that, in order to pursue our project, we should work with a pair of attorneys the authority had retained. After several meetings with them it was clear that nobody at the authority had any interest in trying to help preserve rail at Union Station.

This was driven home after I met with Mike Surface, who worked for Harris County. During a meeting with him, he told me that in order to effect a multi-million-dollar construction cost savings the footprint of the stadium was going to be moved south all the way to Texas Avenue, thereby covering the space where tracks could be laid. I did not believe him. I called the lead architect at HOK, with whom I had had previous discussions, and asked if this was true. He told me he had never heard of such a thing.

After I finished, Todd canvassed the other council members and came back to tell me that we had a very strong majority. I came back the following Wednesday when they voted. Todd canvassed them again before the vote and this time told me that all of our support had evaporated overnight. Mayor Lanier was there one of the days but I don't remember which. Go figure.

[IronTiger]

You can go talk to the guy that ran texas limited and find out for yourself.

http://m.chron.com/opinion/article/Houston-deserves-better-rail-service-4337295.php

I've read that article, and it's different than your re-interpretation. Sounds like he wanted the Union Station for rail use, was out-bid by Enron, briefly enthused by the idea of a hybrid baseball stadium/train station (done by someone at the architect's team and probably not representative of the final product), and then was disappointed when the rail component was dropped (which would've been a bit more complicated if it were serving dual uses from an engineering/pedestrian accessibility standpoint), that is if it ever existed and wasn't just a pipe dream by him and some folks at HOK Architects. Even then, it's just him talking (no one else's side of the story), complicated by the fact that this "Mike Surface" guy was a criminal, too.

Some of these "What Could Have Been" discussions in terms of unbuilt projects, we don't have a real idea of how close to a reality it would've been. For example, the full-scale Star Trek Enterprise attraction at Las Vegas in the early 1990s was killed by a Paramount exec, but only five months of preliminary planning had gone into it and could've been stymied or killed by a variety of other factors.

[Slick Vik]

I've read that article, and it's different than your re-interpretation. Sounds like he wanted the Union Station for rail use, was out-bid by Enron, briefly enthused by the idea of a hybrid baseball stadium/train station (done by someone at the architect's team and probably not representative of the final product), and then was disappointed when the rail component was dropped (which would've been a bit more complicated if it were serving dual uses from an engineering/pedestrian accessibility standpoint), that is if it ever existed and wasn't just a pipe dream by him and some folks at HOK Architects. Even then, it's just him talking (no one else's side of the story), complicated by the fact that this "Mike Surface" guy was a criminal, too.

Some of these "What Could Have Been" discussions in terms of unbuilt projects, we don't have a real idea of how close to a reality it would've been. For example, the full-scale Star Trek Enterprise attraction at Las Vegas in the early 1990s was killed by a Paramount exec, but only five months of preliminary planning had gone into it and could've been stymied or killed by a variety of other factors.

Rail at a stadium site is not a difficult concept at all. Look at Barclays center which has subway lines and the LIRR all stop underneath it. Also Franklin got government money which takes a lot of time to apply for and win and was on the same page with the architects. If you can't see the obvious corruption of Lanier to purposely block rail you have rose colored glasses. He went out of his way to do it even though rail easily could have been part of the configuration. It's part of the anti rail sentiment him and his buddies delay and Culberson and some at TxDOT have as well. And it's putting us 50 years behind the rest of the civilized world.

[BigFootsSocks]

Please leave yalls bullsh!t outside this thread. 

[Luminare]

Please leave yalls bullsh!t outside this thread. 

 

I don't know....I think it's rather interesting.

[IronTiger]

I don't know....I think it's rather interesting.

Well, the Galveston train certainly is interesting, admittedly, and of course, no thread is complete without the whole "vast anti-rail conspiracy" thing Slick likes to hawk.

Anyway, it is true that the "road to rail" is littered with many, many failures.

[Slick Vik]

Well, the Galveston train certainly is interesting, admittedly, and of course, no thread is complete without the whole "vast anti-rail conspiracy" thing Slick likes to hawk.

Anyway, it is true that the "road to rail" is littered with many, many failures.

Not a conspiracy. It's all about bribery. This is oil country.

[BigFootsSocks]

:|

[eikonal]

So is TCR project, if it does get built, facing the same dim prospects (political opposition, insurance costs, etc.) as Houston-Galveston, or is it different now? And would the location of the station make as much of a difference?

 

[BigFootsSocks]

I believe it has a much better chance, or at least the best so far. There will most likely beultiple stations initially.

[cspwal]

I feel like both the location and the quality of the stations (both Houston and Dallas) will make a big deal to it's success.  If they try to run the HSR out of the Amtrak Shack, they won't get any of their coveted business traffic.

[Triton]

 

 

Derailed? 205 MPH bullet train between Houston and Dallas in dire danger of being blocked by new bill

http://houston.culturemap.com/news/travel/04-11-15-derailed-205-mph-bullet-train-between-houston-and-dallas-in-danger-of-being-blocked-by-new-bill/

[mfastx]

Trust me, this is just the beginning lol. 

 

Unfortunately there will always be plenty of powerful folk against projects like this.  

 

Good luck to the developers, they'll need it. 

[BigFootsSocks]

It would remove their ability to use ED, so oh no! They'll just have to do what we've been saying for the past 2 months! *gasp*! It's like we knew what we were talking about!

[Luminare]

Omg FINE let them close the damn loop hole! Meanwhile I will be over here laughing my ass off at how useless these politicians efforts are! 

[Slick Vik]

This is unfortunate