Texas Central Project

[Ross]

forgive me, but did you not just say in the quoted post above that you dont care about the neighborhoods/people affected in Dallas? pretty damn hypocritical IMO. in that case, why should Luminare care about the affected residents preventing the train from going downtown? especially if it "has no effect on him or anyone he knows"..(a very selfish reason I might I add, if that is your logic on why the train should be kept from going downtown)

Edit: I should of said *potential benefit of 13 million people.

And yeah.. My buddy has family in a well kept house in Lazybrook, granted most of the houses have gates across the driveways..

 

Dallas can decide what to do on their own, and without input from us here in Houston. It really makes no difference to me. If I lived in Dallas, it would make a difference. I assume there are plenty of smart, articulate people up there to argue one way or the other. If a Downtown Dallas location for rail makes sense for them, great, but I don't see why that should play into our decision making here.

 

[BigFootsSocks]

You don't see why Dallas should play into our decision making? Ummm....wait...what only other location is this train going besides Houston?

Oh....

[placoors]

Interesting story in ABJ from earlier this week:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/blog/abj-at-the-capitol/2015/02/texas-senator-worried-over-lack-of-input-from.html?ana=e_aus_rdup&s=newsletter&ed=2015-02-09&u=sEGD+NmMXoSSl74m8zHnnHECIl6&t=1423528371&page=all

 

 

[BigFootsSocks]

We need to stop thinking of this project as a separate thing for each city. This is the most sophisticated modern-day piece of infrastructure built between Dallas and Houston. This is a project that encompasses everything in its path as one project for Texas.

[Luminare]

Interesting story in ABJ from earlier this week:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/blog/abj-at-the-capitol/2015/02/texas-senator-worried-over-lack-of-input-from.html?ana=e_aus_rdup&s=newsletter&ed=2015-02-09&u=sEGD+NmMXoSSl74m8zHnnHECIl6&t=1423528371&page=all

 

posted that a not to long ago I still think he is just looking for attention.

[placoors]

posted that a not to long ago I still think he is just looking for attention.

 

My mistake.  Must have glossed over it when I was double checking haha.

 

[Ross]

You don't see why Dallas should play into our decision making? Ummm....wait...what only other location is this train going besides Houston?

Oh....

 

The location of the train station in Dallas is pretty irrelevant to the location of the station here. The terminal locations should be chosen based on the needs, desires, and geography/demographics of each city. Dallas may decide that Downtown or Irving or Garland may be appropriate, while Houston could choose NW Mall, Downtown, or Denver Harbor (please note that the lists above are not comprehensive, and are only examples. Your mileage may vary).

[Luminare]

"Denver Harbor"

 

 

You did not just toss in Denver Harbor nonchalant as if it could be a serious location.... That seriously doesn't make your argument more credible.

 

I clearly marked out exactly what you would need to make your argument better and so far you cease to provide any evidence to really back up your argument.

[Ross]

"Denver Harbor"

 

 

You did not just toss in Denver Harbor nonchalant as if it could be a serious location.... That seriously doesn't make your argument more credible.

 

I clearly marked out exactly what you would need to make your argument better and so far you cease to provide any evidence to really back up your argument.

What's wrong with Denver Harbor? Lots of train tracks and property owners who would be glad to get more money than the current value. The Denver harbor thing was humor...

[BigFootsSocks]

Yeah but it's only humorous if we're all in on the joke.

Also I pretty clearly stated why the Dallas portion is just as important as ours. This entire project begins and ends at these two points, nothing more and nothing less. There's no d myi g that without at least defending your argument.

[DNAguy]

Interesting story in ABJ from earlier this week:

http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/blog/abj-at-the-capitol/2015/02/texas-senator-worried-over-lack-of-input-from.html?ana=e_aus_rdup&s=newsletter&ed=2015-02-09&u=sEGD+NmMXoSSl74m8zHnnHECIl6&t=1423528371&page=all

I'd find this guy a lot more credible if he was fighting Kinder Morgan or a similar company as well.

If pipeline companies can use eminent domain to build their privately held assets which remain in private hands, then I don't see why a rail company can.....

Not that I agree with the idea of private companies necessarily using government power for their own benefit at the expense of private land holder rights. This is something that can be argued both ways and doesn't lend itself to platitudes that probably got this guy elected...."No new taxes" "Smaller Government" "Obama"

Though, this guy shows his 'butt' when it says in the article that he's a real estate developer. I mean, he wants a stop in the woodlands and he's using 'eminent domain' as a drummed up controversy that gets the base all jazzed up.

Politics baby.

[Luminare]

http://offthekuff.com/wp/?p=65122

 

*HEADDESK*

 

Love the comment from the Oak Forest guy saying Highways are "mass transit" LOL

 

EDIT:

 

While people are trying to mobilize around nothing here are words straight from the big guy himself

 

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/spring/news/high-speed-rail-coming-to-texas/article_b193c0a4-a8dd-5da6-a3d7-8c52248838cc.html

 

They haven't even really begun to organize their education efforts which is why I think we are seeing opposition such as this.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Luminare

[Ross]

Yeah but it's only humorous if we're all in on the joke.

Also I pretty clearly stated why the Dallas portion is just as important as ours. This entire project begins and ends at these two points, nothing more and nothing less. There's no d myi g that without at least defending your argument.

 

You didn't explain why the location of the Dallas terminal should influence the location of the Houston terminal. Or why each city should not choose the optimal location based on the factors I listed elsewhere.

[Slick Vik]

You didn't explain why the location of the Dallas terminal should influence the location of the Houston terminal. Or why each city should not choose the optimal location based on the factors I listed elsewhere.

Because it's a city center to city center train that's what the company want and it makes sense for anyone with a shred of common sense. Have you even been to Denver harbor or northwest mall recently?

[JLWM8609]

Meanwhile, in Dallas, some residents there believe that locating the HSR on the south side of Dallas would've resulted in an economic boom for the south side.

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2015/02/houston_dallas_bullet_train_stations_harm_development_chances.php

 

Looks like we're not the only ones bickering over a line terminus site.

[Luminare]

Meanwhile, in Dallas, some residents there believe that locating the HSR on the south side of Dallas would've resulted in an economic boom for the south side.

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2015/02/houston_dallas_bullet_train_stations_harm_development_chances.php

 

Looks like we're not the only ones bickering over a line terminus site.

 

If that comment section is anything like the Chronicle then I simply ignore it

 

I mean I was on the Chron when they were talking about the bike lane downtown and it was nothing but people complaining about everything they possibly could.

 

It's always cooler to hate on something than to at least try accept that it can be of some good. Same case here. When passenger rail has been so absent from the public conscious for nearly a half century then it's going to get some backlash especially from those who have only driven cars forever. Many of the people who are arguing against it I know for a fact have never even ridden on a train, or been on train networks to even know what could make one successful.

[BigFootsSocks]

You didn't explain why the location of the Dallas terminal should influence the location of the Houston terminal. Or why each city should not choose the optimal location based on the factors I listed elsewhere.

Ummm I literally did in my initial post. What are you even talking about?

[Luminare]

Ummm I literally did in my initial post. What are you even talking about?

 

Don't you see? You can't just answer his question anyway you want too. You only are able to answer the way HE wants you too.

[august948]

Because it's a city center to city center train that's what the company want and it makes sense for anyone with a shred of common sense. Have you even been to Denver harbor or northwest mall recently?

 

Since most people will be driving to and from the terminal, like they do at the airports this will compete against, easy access to the segment of the population that will be using this is more important.  Now if what you really meant was city center to city centre, then I'm down with that.

 

[cloud713]

So you do or don't want the station in downtown August? Lol at city centre.

[Luminare]

So you do or don't want the station in downtown August? Lol at city centre.

 

Because his banner says he lives near Westchase....how convenient. Yeah, he isn't being selfish at all...

[IronTiger]

Parking and access need to be priorities. A downtown location may look cool, but it'll need to have decent parking for long range and short range travel (much like the airport), good security, and so on. Access too: it needs to be convenient to existing highways.

[Slick Vik]

Parking and access need to be priorities. A downtown location may look cool, but it'll need to have decent parking for long range and short range travel (much like the airport), good security, and so on. Access too: it needs to be convenient to existing highways.

Um downtown is convenient to 45, 59, 10, and 288.

[Ross]

Um downtown is convenient to 45, 59, 10, and 288.

 

The Post Office site isn't obvious from 45 or 59. It's easy from 10 headed East, because the Smith exit drops you right next to it. The other roads require some amount of circling and knowing where to turn. People who aren't familiar with Downtown will likely have some issues finding their way.

 

[ArchFan]

Um, consider this:  why would anyone (from Dallas) want to board HSR in downtown Dallas and have to be dropped off at NW Mall in Houston?  I mean, even if Houston put a big rental-car center there or made it a nexus for new bus routes?

 

I'm sorry, but I think that idea is an immediate fail.  As far as how it would impact me personally ... I live a bit closer to NW Mall than downtown Houston, but getting to the mall would give me a bigger headache than getting to DT Houston.

 

While I agree that we should debate this issue rationally, I haven't seen any convincing arguments presented yet for NW Mall (or other facetious locations, e.g., Denver Harbor).  That said, I agree that we should not mindlessly follow the example of every other big city on the planet with mass transit ... but, we'd but nuts to ignore the reasons they do it as well as the outcomes.  Perhaps the anti-downtown crowd could come up with convincing examples for why we should have the HSR terminus in Aldine, Denver Harbor, or Long Point at Bingle?  And, while they are doing that, include a data-based explanation (not just a self-satisfying speculation) of why everyone from Houston or Dallas apparently wants to start or stop in, say, Katy, Tx.   If that is how it is, then the HSR should go there.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ArchFan

[ADCS]

The Post Office site isn't obvious from 45 or 59. It's easy from 10 headed East, because the Smith exit drops you right next to it. The other roads require some amount of circling and knowing where to turn. People who aren't familiar with Downtown will likely have some issues finding their way.

 

 

You could also post large wayfinding signs, as is done for every other major transportation terminal, such as the airports.

 

This would also likely factor into the developing Pierce Elevated plans.

[Luminare]

I think some of you fail to understand that HSR should be positioned so that it benefits the pedestrian and not the car. Position it so that there are multiple ways of accessing the terminal...not just from your car. The bigger idea is connecting HSR to other modes of transit from walking, biking, other rail, bus, and yes even cars.....not a sea of parking lots. HSR should be reliant on those who will use it most meaning those who don't want to step in a car at all. It's not meant to be a curious side attraction for suburbanites or shackled to the car as if it depended on it.

 

I also find it insulting that those who oppose the Downtown location think that we only favor it because it "looks cool". That idea is simply ludicrous and makes it easier for you to ignore the genuine advantages a location in downtown can bring.

 

Can I actually hear an argument for NW that doesn't revolve around the easy use of ones vehicle....because I have news for y'all that isn't the target audience for this service! If you can honestly give concrete examples or evidence in how NW is a prime location then please do so, but I will challenge you to do so without the car as a crutch.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Luminare

[JLWM8609]

 HSR should be reliant on those who will use it most meaning those who don't want to step in a car at all.

 

Airline travelers don't want to step into cars at all, either, yet airports accommodate vehicles. Yes, I realize international/long distance travel is often impossible by car, but there are a lot of people flying HOU-DAL, IAH-SAT, IAH-BPT, HOU-MSY that could drive, but would rather fly for whatever reason.

[Luminare]

Airline travelers don't want to step into cars at all, either, yet airports accommodate vehicles. Yes, I realize international/long distance travel is often impossible by car, but there are a lot of people flying HOU-DAL, IAH-SAT, IAH-BPT, HOU-MSY that could drive, but would rather fly for whatever reason.

 

HSR and Air travel are different animals entirely and if you have traveled by train before then you would understand that.

 

Airports need a larger footprint to function and therefore to maximize space need to be placed in locations further than which people can get there by foot.

 

This piece of information helps understand that air travel has always had a sort of symbiotic relationship to cars. Both were products of their times and each formed a relationship with each other. It's only been within the past few decades that railroad travel has taken people to airports while train travel has always been a pedestrian dominated experience since it's inception. The only time you treat HSR as an airport is if you are crossing international boundaries and since this isn't the case for this particular line it should be treated as a normal passenger rail that simply goes a lot faster and makes a minimum of stops.

 

The next time you toss around HSR and Airports I would advise that you actually read up on airline history and planning and how much of a role the car played in it's early period and how it continues to be a driving force for it today. The shear expanse of land that is required to run such a facility makes a comparison it and train stations like comparing apples to oranges (cliche as it may be).

 

EDIT: Also wanted to add that there have been many attempts to get rail to airports which for many cities and their networks have been quite successful, but lets not take a surface reading of Dallas and Houston and say that just because there are not sufficient rail networks to really connect rail to airports doesn't mean it can't happen in the future. The best thing about Rail stations (minus small town or rural stations) is that it puts you in the thick of everything and helps you connect to other forms of getting around. It's not a mere dumping ground to off load people into a sea of cars. Rail stations are entities that help tie together networks and major areas...not work outside of them.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Luminare

[august948]

So you do or don't want the station in downtown August? Lol at city centre.

 

I don't care either way, so I'm not rah-rah about a downtown station, per se.  What I'm saying is that it makes more sense to put a station outside downtown given the realities of Houston's current and future development.  Ideally, perhaps, they should have a two stations, one in downtown and one someplace like NW mall.  But, since it's a private venture, cost is going to be very relevant and I'd rather they do the NW mall location than try to overextend themselves to put it downtown.  That can be done later once the line proves profitable.