Texas Central Project

[Slick Vik]

As I suspected, you really could not care less about the impact on neighborhoods as long as your selfish interests are satisfied. If my sample poll is any indication, the majority want it at Northwest Mall.

The majority of short sighted NIMBY's is not an accurate sample. Selfish are the ignorant people that live there that are more concerned about fear mongering than a project that will make a difference to millions of riders annually.

[Ross]

The majority of short sighted NIMBY's is not an accurate sample. Selfish are the ignorant people that live there that are more concerned about fear mongering than a project that will make a difference to millions of riders annually.

 

You really don't care to discuss this with the affected people, do you? You don't care one whit about their concerns, just that they are in some manner creating an impediment to your oh so wonderful view of how the world ought to be. The issues raised by the potentially affected neighborhoods need to be dealt with, and your obnoxious "oh go away and let the adults do the right thing" attitude reflects badly on you.

[cloud713]

I agree they should work with the neighborhoods, but let's face it.. There are plenty of other neighborhoods in the further out suburbs of Houston, south Dallas, and all the communities in between that will be "affected" by the train as well. The train is for the benefit of 13 million people.. It would be a damn shame if a group of a few thousand stopped it from going downtown.

There is no METRORail connection to northwest mall.. If they build it out there they will eventually have to build a commuter rail connection to downtown, so the neighborhoods along Washington will get a train in their backyards after all.. It will just be an unsightly commuter train instead of a sleek sexy HSR train. Isn't this supposed to be heavily geared towards business people (at least during the week)? Why dump them out at northwest mall where there are barely any offices, when there are so many offices in downtown?

Btw, what neighborhood are you surveying people in? Is it along the 290 route or the 249 route?

[mkultra25]

The train is for the benefit of 13 million people.. It would be a damn shame if a group of a few thousand stopped it from going downtown.

 

[ZKB9]

So to sum this thread up:

"NW SHOPPING CENTER! DOWNTOWN! NW SHOPPING CENTER!! DOWNTOWN!! NW SHOPPING CENTER!!! DOWNTOWN!!!


...



damn farmers."

[Slick Vik]

You really don't care to discuss this with the affected people, do you? You don't care one whit about their concerns, just that they are in some manner creating an impediment to your oh so wonderful view of how the world ought to be. The issues raised by the potentially affected neighborhoods need to be dealt with, and your obnoxious "oh go away and let the adults do the right thing" attitude reflects badly on you.

No I don't because their concerns are selfish and short sighted. The existing freight trains that go through are much worse and saying northwest transit center which is a desolate lot is better than the center of the city is laughable and shows to the intelligence of the residents. It's most likely going to go downtown based on what they've chosen for Dallas.

[Ross]

No I don't because their concerns are selfish and short sighted. The existing freight trains that go through are much worse and saying northwest transit center which is a desolate lot is better than the center of the city is laughable and shows to the intelligence of the residents. It's most likely going to go downtown based on what they've chosen for Dallas.

 

There's the problem. You don't care what other people think or that their lives might be impacted. You aren't willing to explore alternatives at all, even if they are better than your first impression. Northwest Mall is much closer to the center of population for the area. Everyone I know who goes to Dallas for business leaves from home, not the office. No one I've spoken to wants to be forced to go Downtown to catch a train to Dallas when it's much easier to get to Northwest Mall.

 

As for the folks who live along the rail, their main issue is that no one is really answering their questions fully. No analysis of what happens if a freight train derails and takes out HSR pylons. No answers on what the construction process behind their houses will look like. No answers on what happens to the drainage ditches that run along the freight lines. No answers on how much, if any space the HSR work will need. I have a colleague who has lived on the same street in Garden Oaks for all but 10 of his 65 years, whose comment was "I deserve some explanation of what might happen, not just to be told to suck it up and get out of the way"

[UtterlyUrban]

There's the problem. You don't care what other people think or that their lives might be impacted. You aren't willing to explore alternatives at all, even if they are better than your first impression. Northwest Mall is much closer to the center of population for the area. Everyone I know who goes to Dallas for business leaves from home, not the office. No one I've spoken to wants to be forced to go Downtown to catch a train to Dallas when it's much easier to get to Northwest Mall.

As for the folks who live along the rail, their main issue is that no one is really answering their questions fully. No analysis of what happens if a freight train derails and takes out HSR pylons. No answers on what the construction process behind their houses will look like. No answers on what happens to the drainage ditches that run along the freight lines. No answers on how much, if any space the HSR work will need. I have a colleague who has lived on the same street in Garden Oaks for all but 10 of his 65 years, whose comment was "I deserve some explanation of what might happen, not just to be told to suck it up and get out of the way"

I work (and live) downtown with 100,000 other office workers. Everyone I have spoken to would prefer the train leave from downtown.

here is how I see your position: you want the rail as long as any impacts are in someone else's backyard. Bottom line: the train is going to impact someone. Your position is "as long as it doesn't Impact me, I am fine with it." Well, that really is the issue for me. I am totally fine if your position is "I don't want the train AT ALL because of the folks impacted along the ENTIRE route..... In my opinion the burden is too high.....".... If that were your position, I am fine with that. Unfortunately you are saying just the opposite: "I want the train as long as only others are impacted." In my opinion, That is NIMBY at its worst.

Personally, I want the train and I want it to go downtown to downtown (my neighborhood). I also want passenger trains running along main and rusk. Also my neighborhood and were I work. I want buses and trains connecting to the new station. Oh, the horror! A passenger train cutting across busy intersections right in my neighborhood! In fact, right in front a of a magnet school! Lord! Think of the children! Heavens! And buses! Think of the traffic! Think of the children!

I see no legitimate argument that would suggest that adding a passenger train to an existing fright train right of way represents an undue burden to property owners living along the existing, highly used, 24-hour per day noisy, freight lines. I am just not buying your position..... Unless you are completely against the entire project.

[cloud713]

Ross, people might go to the HSR station from home, but what about the Dallas business people who are coming into Houston from Dallas? Obviously they aren't going to be going to people's homes to have meetings. They are going to be going to the OFFICES. It's nice to have decent transit options tied into wherever the train is going to drop people off at.

As for the "center of population".. You may be right about that, but it's unfair for the people on the south, east, and southeast sides of the metro to move it further away from where they live.

[Slick Vik]

There's the problem. You don't care what other people think or that their lives might be impacted. You aren't willing to explore alternatives at all, even if they are better than your first impression. Northwest Mall is much closer to the center of population for the area. Everyone I know who goes to Dallas for business leaves from home, not the office. No one I've spoken to wants to be forced to go Downtown to catch a train to Dallas when it's much easier to get to Northwest Mall.

As for the folks who live along the rail, their main issue is that no one is really answering their questions fully. No analysis of what happens if a freight train derails and takes out HSR pylons. No answers on what the construction process behind their houses will look like. No answers on what happens to the drainage ditches that run along the freight lines. No answers on how much, if any space the HSR work will need. I have a colleague who has lived on the same street in Garden Oaks for all but 10 of his 65 years, whose comment was "I deserve some explanation of what might happen, not just to be told to suck it up and get out of the way"

Yes I don't care what a few arrogant NIMBY's think. I was at your meeting what people said is we support the train so long as it doesn't got enough our neighborhood. That is a selfish view if I've ever seen one.

[Ross]

Yes I don't care what a few arrogant NIMBY's think. I was at your meeting what people said is we support the train so long as it doesn't got enough our neighborhood. That is a selfish view if I've ever seen one.

 

You are one arrogant prick, aren't you? Would you freely give up your house and neighborhood for a road expansion?

 

I don't live in a neighborhood affected by the proposals. Downtown may be a decent location, but I don't think so. I do care that all of the affected neighborhoods have input, and that their concerns are addressed. Giving them answers may assuage their worry, but so far, no one has said anything other than "we might build through your neighborhood and don't think there will be any problems".

[mollusk]

I agree with our large footed friend above - unless and until someone provides some metrics for their "surveys" that just happen to fit their own positions, I'm going to take them as evidence of an invasion of the cable media echo chamber into our humble round table.

 

To our friends with their hair on fire - So far as I know each and every one of the HSR routes that follows a rail line (i.e., all of them in town) was at one time the host of numerous passenger trains every day, powered not by electricity but steam produced by burning fuel oil or coal, and blowing a steam whistle at each and every grade crossing.  Today, those lines carry a bunch of long, slow, heavy, loud freight trains, again not powered by electricity but by diesel, and again making liberal use of air horns except in some discrete areas.

 

Edit:  And please stop with the name calling.  It's rude.

Edited February 8, 2015 by mollusk

[BigFootsSocks]

I agree with our large footed friend above - unless and until someone provides some metrics for their "surveys" that just happen to fit their own positions, I'm going to take them as evidence of an invasion of the cable media echo chamber into our humble round table.

 

To our friends with their hair on fire - So far as I know each and every one of the HSR routes that follows a rail line (i.e., all of them in town) was at one time the host of numerous passenger trains every day, powered not by electricity but steam produced by burning fuel oil or coal, and blowing a steam whistle at each and every grade crossing.  Today, those lines carry a bunch of long, slow, heavy, loud freight trains, again not powered by electricity but by diesel, and again making liberal use of air horns except in some discrete areas.

 

Edit:  And please stop with the name calling.  It's rude.

Yeah but but but but...oh no wait everything you've said is right.

[IronTiger]

You are one arrogant prick, aren't you? Would you freely give up your house and neighborhood for a road expansion?

 

I don't live in a neighborhood affected by the proposals. Downtown may be a decent location, but I don't think so. I do care that all of the affected neighborhoods have input, and that their concerns are addressed. Giving them answers may assuage their worry, but so far, no one has said anything other than "we might build through your neighborhood and don't think there will be any problems".

I think that the affected neighborhoods at least ought to get schematics of what the HSR would look like and how it would work with the ROW it has.

Personally, I agree about Slick's hypocrisy. He'll whine and whinge about elevated highways and neighborhoods nearby, and then take the opposite side for rail-based projects.

Hilarious.

[Slick Vik]

I think that the affected neighborhoods at least ought to get schematics of what the HSR would look like and how it would work with the ROW it has.

Personally, I agree about Slick's hypocrisy. He'll whine and whinge about elevated highways and neighborhoods nearby, and then take the opposite side for rail-based projects.

Hilarious.

Big difference between a track of rail and a gargantuan highway

[Ross]

I agree with our large footed friend above - unless and until someone provides some metrics for their "surveys" that just happen to fit their own positions, I'm going to take them as evidence of an invasion of the cable media echo chamber into our humble round table.

 

To our friends with their hair on fire - So far as I know each and every one of the HSR routes that follows a rail line (i.e., all of them in town) was at one time the host of numerous passenger trains every day, powered not by electricity but steam produced by burning fuel oil or coal, and blowing a steam whistle at each and every grade crossing.  Today, those lines carry a bunch of long, slow, heavy, loud freight trains, again not powered by electricity but by diesel, and again making liberal use of air horns except in some discrete areas.

 

Edit:  And please stop with the name calling.  It's rude.

 

Anyone have train schedules from the 1940's forward? Keep in mind that areas like Garden Oaks were built after the rail was in place, and with knowledge of the volume of traffic. Changing things without fully informing the affected parties is not smart. It makes people defensive and oppositional. No one likes to be told to just go away and not worry. Besides, what difference does it make that someones Grandparents  had to deal with higher traffic volume? That's not particularly relevant now.

[IronTiger]

Big difference between a track of rail and a gargantuan highway

You're still avoiding the question.

[Luminare]

There's the problem. You don't care what other people think or that their lives might be impacted. You aren't willing to explore alternatives at all, even if they are better than your first impression. Northwest Mall is much closer to the center of population for the area. Everyone I know who goes to Dallas for business leaves from home, not the office. No one I've spoken to wants to be forced to go Downtown to catch a train to Dallas when it's much easier to get to Northwest Mall.

 

As for the folks who live along the rail, their main issue is that no one is really answering their questions fully. No analysis of what happens if a freight train derails and takes out HSR pylons. No answers on what the construction process behind their houses will look like. No answers on what happens to the drainage ditches that run along the freight lines. No answers on how much, if any space the HSR work will need. I have a colleague who has lived on the same street in Garden Oaks for all but 10 of his 65 years, whose comment was "I deserve some explanation of what might happen, not just to be told to suck it up and get out of the way"

 

So took some time to make some initial analysis of the current situation at NW Mall to see if what you say actually has merit.

 

Now as I have said before. I would actually like HSR to be accessed from this location, but as a secondary station that picks up additional passengers after the train departs from the main station in downtown. This will be a part one. I wanted to initially separate the images, but I think it would be better if all the visuals were combined to see the larger picture. I would love to do a better visual presentation of this area, but for something I have spent the past 30mins on I think this will do.

 

 

 

Whats In The Image:

 

I hope the image comes out ok and that it is big enough.

 

The pink dot represents the site.

 

The red lines with arrows show movement.

 

The red circles with white in the middle are access points off the freeway to the site.

 

The green lines are public transit. In this case the only transit is buses. The green circles are stops with the large one at the bottom being the NW Transit Center.

 

The orange areas shows recent development.

 

The orange circles show walking distance. Inner circle 5min walk from NW Site. Outer circle 10min walk from NW Site. These are just representations as I haven't had the chance to actually walk the area (Then again who on earth would like too?)

 

The red jagged lines are visual barriers.

 

The yellow text are existing conditions.

 

I also created a layer called "Destinations". Which would have been pink dots. Notice their aren't any!

 

Analysis:

 

1. The biggest problem with the site is access. It has piss poor access from all conceivable angles and is not very well laid out. You have very few connections from the Highway. The general speeds in the area are rather fast which brings up a safety question if you getting there by bike, or walking. Even if you did walk or bike you would have to contend with visual or imaginary barriers that you see in the jagged lines. These are barriers which are formed by current land uses, roads, physical barriers, etc... From the neighborhodds you only have one way out and that is to use the main access into the neighborhood which would make a normal walk into something that isn't very pleasent. You have warehouse properties which butt up against the neighborhoods on the west side preventing easy access. In the East you have the highways which are large physical and visual barriers to accessing the area. This would be the biggest problem you would have to overcome if this was your primary station.

 

2. Transportation is another issue. The only good access to the station is by car, but what about people who ARRIVE at the station and are from out of town? Very very few options for them to get around. Of course if you do place it here you would see an increase in taxi's, rent-a-cars, which will only increase the use of cars in this area and just to get anywhere it would be very expensive!

 

3. The area is characterized by the gradual decay of suburban infrastructure, culture, residential, and commercial. Many of these areas are in deep decline and many people are moving out of these areas! The commercial buildings here are either low-rise commercial, declining highrises, or declining mid-rises. Warehouses make up the main uses in the area which also brings to point number 4.

 

4. This area is not a destination! It is an in-between. A place to pass through and not go too. I mean the main industry of the area is transportation or distribution centers which take things to other places not the current location.

 

5. Earlier I said that I had created a layer called "destinations" (this was done quickly in Illustrator), but I honestly couldn't think about what were "Destinations". I don't think HISD, Warehouses, fast food joints, big box stores, a few bars and a strip club at Mangum and 290 are going to draw anyone to this area. If I'm missing anything here of importance then please address it. Trains are best when they take you straight to a destination! When you get out of a Train you are immediately there and have easy access to places that are there! Train terminals are great points for people getting off and entering the city for the first time. Is this the kind of Houston you want people to get their first view of?

 

Addressing Ross's Comments:

 

"You aren't willing to explore alternatives at all"

 

1. When you say there are other alternatives to a given situation then it is your responsibility as the opposition to present alternatives! It's not up to those in support! From there you see if those work and if they don't then you move on and if they might work then there is compromise. You bring no alternatives to the table so why should anyone take seriously your opposition? This is a genuine question!

 

2. Anytime I hear this it simply means that they are only going to agree if they getting everything they want out of the deal. That never happens. There will certainly be compromises to follow, but both parties will have to have some give or take, but lets be honest here. TCR has an incredible advantage. They have the evidence to back up that their product works both in concept and real world use, they have political backing from both cities and those in state government because it is privately funded, and if the environmental study shows that it is ok to build then you have a lot to provide in opposition other than. I don't want it in my backyard! This means you would not only have to give substantial examples of it affecting public safety, but will have to prove that it actually is a harm to the economy. It's even more difficult for the fact that this is a private company and not a government project so you can't use the argument about taxpayers!

 

3. If there are better alternatives, then I ask, what are they?

 

"center of population for the area"

 

1. As I have addressed in my analysis the place is steady decline! Industries are moving to more fertile grounds. Residents are either moving closer into the city or farther out. This isn't the center of population. It isn't the center of Houston's population, the city itself, it's industry, it's commercial, it's culture. In fact it's the opposite of all of those. There is zero presence of Houston's culture, all the energy companies that once called this area home have left, the very site itself is manifestation of the movements of all of these things. It's a decaying ruin of the past and projects that into the surrounding landscape. Trends are showing that the population is shifting inward and those that do live in the suburbs are moving further outward making your argument here very illogical.

 

2. Give us examples of how it is the "center of population". If you understand what the center means then you would know that it means that there should be a LOT of people here, but there isn't. Most of the time it's a ghost town. Suburbia by it's very nature doesn't even have a "center". It's a continuous void with no defining features or characteristics and due to the horizontal nature of it doesn't leave any place for there to be a concentration of mass to even call a place "center".

 

"Everyone I know who goes to Dallas for business leaves from home"

 

Just ask this question, why? Why do you think this has to happen? Probably because it takes 4hrs by driving at least 2hrs for the trip to the airport, airtime, off the airport and to the destination! With this train you could literally go to work in the office in the morning, take the train mid-day and go to a meeting, then literally take the train home at night (that would be a very long day, but you could do that!). Plus this is bs. I know plenty of people I work worth or work in town who make the trip to Dallas from their offices every single day.

 

"No one I've spoken to wants to be forced to go Downtown to catch a train to Dallas when it's much easier to get to Northwest Mall"

 

1. No one is "forcing" you to do anything.

 

2. Downtown during peak work day hours has at least 75,000 to 100,000 workers daily with most of those people already making the commute in town! A significant portion of the working population makes commutes longer than 30mins a day just to get anywhere. This is very weak argument.

 

3. "it's much easier to get to Northwest Mall". You know what this says? It's easier for YOU to get there. Also from just a very surface analysis it's obvious that it isn't a very easy place to get too. The access points on and off the highways are very poor. The current road infrastructure isn't very efficient to get you there. I drive along Hempstead Hwy many times throughout the week and one thing it isn't is "easy to get too" or drive down.

 

"As for the folks who live along the rail, their main issue is that no one is really answering their questions fully."

 

1. So TCR answered NONE of their questions? They had all of these meetings an nothing was addressed? Public meetings where they were there to answer YOUR questions and they didn't answer anything?

 

2. They answered your questions. The answers however were not the answers the people who are against this WANT to hear.

 

"No analysis of what happens if a freight train derails and takes out HSR pylons"

 

1. I know what you are trying to do and I don't like it. These are hypothetical's (while plausible) are not everyday assurances and are in fact very rare! It's also one where you ignoring common practice not only for freight trains, but for all trains in general. Many trains are not going full speed once they reach the inner city anyway and if an accident were to happen no force on earth is going to be able to stop it! That's why they call those things "accidents". You do your best to avoid them, but you live your life and if it happens it happens, but you make it sound like this is intentional.

 

2. Please give us the accident records of HSR. It's almost comparable to plane travel! You get killed more driving then you ever would via HSR or air travel!

 

3. I honestly shouldn't even address this because due to the very specific nature of this proposed accident it only shows what YOUR fears are. If you don't want to live next to a railroad then leave! No one is making you stay there. You know the risks of living next to one and therefore it's your fault. It's like living in Tornado valley if you don't like Tornado's then don't live in a area called TORNADO VALLEY! I have no sympathy for those who know the risks they face yet try to push blame on others as if it's other peoples problem and not theirs.

 

"No answers on what the construction process behind their houses will look like. No answers on what happens to the drainage ditches that run along the freight lines. No answers on how much, if any space the HSR work will need."

 

1. Once again, where none of you at the meetings? Weren't they not public meetings where you could ask them these questions? Have you tried to do any research on your own into these questions from other projects world wide to see what might be the case? Their is something called the internet which allows you to find a treasure trove of info about these things, but again no....that's TCR's fault. I'm not suppose to do anything! I'm not suppose to be an independent thinker and seek out information that could very well impact my community. No all I want to do is complain about it.

 

2. I imagine they did answer questions such as those you asked, but they didn't give the answers that satisfied you and immediately threw them out.

 

" 'I deserve some explanation of what might happen, not just to be told to suck it up and get out of the way' "

 

1. Probably the most entitled statement I have ever heard.

 

2. One of the biggest myths about private enterprise is the fact that some people feel like private enterprise "owes" us something. They don't owe you anything! They are simply providing a service and whats great about our country is that you can choose to participate in the enterprise, buy from the enterprise, or ignore the enterprise. If this was a public project then yes they "owe" us explanation, but this is a private company working in private property. As long as they are following the law they don't owe you anything. Until they have to use Eminent Domain (which I really don't think they will use) then they aren't immediately owed the public anything.

 

I'll probably analysis Downtown in Part two, but that's for another time.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Luminare

[BigFootsSocks]

Damn lol /thread

 

I would add though that my apartment is in this image and tbh the area is actually in the early stages of change. Most of the warehouses are being sold and turned into residential. It may not be a destination now but it probably will be. Everything else though is pretty spot on

[cloud713]

You are one arrogant prick, aren't you? Would you freely give up your house and neighborhood for a road expansion?

 

I don't live in a neighborhood affected by the proposals. Downtown may be a decent location, but I don't think so. I do care that all of the affected neighborhoods have input, and that their concerns are addressed. Giving them answers may assuage their worry, but so far, no one has said anything other than "we might build through your neighborhood and don't think there will be any problems".

not trying to be rude, but by that logic i guess you are suggesting the train should go from Cypress or Tomball to Waxahachie and dump people off out there in the middle of nowhere, so no neighborhoods are affected? because you do realize there are neighborhoods between the outskirts of Greater Houston and Northwest Mall.. right?

edit. and i guess you dont care about the neighborhoods in southern Dallas that will be affected? im sure you saw that the 2 station location proposals in Dallas are right outside of their downtown. again, why should a few thousand people get to stop the progress thats for the benefit of 13 million (and counting)? that is whats selfish here. not TCR.

Edited February 9, 2015 by cloud713

[Slick Vik]

You're still avoiding the question.

No I'm not. Look at how much right of way is taken by a rail and a freeway. It's not even a comparison.

[Slick Vik]

So took some time to make some initial analysis of the current situation at NW Mall to see if what you say actually has merit.

Now as I have said before. I would actually like HSR to be accessed from this location, but as a secondary station that picks up additional passengers after the train departs from the main station in downtown. This will be a part one. I wanted to initially separate the images, but I think it would be better if all the visuals were combined to see the larger picture. I would love to do a better visual presentation of this area, but for something I have spent the past 30mins on I think this will do.

Whats In The Image:

I hope the image comes out ok and that it is big enough.

The pink dot represents the site.

The red lines with arrows show movement.

The red circles with white in the middle are access points off the freeway to the site.

The green lines are public transit. In this case the only transit is buses. The green circles are stops with the large one at the bottom being the NW Transit Center.

The orange areas shows recent development.

The orange circles show walking distance. Inner circle 5min walk from NW Site. Outer circle 10min walk from NW Site. These are just representations as I haven't had the chance to actually walk the area (Then again who on earth would like too?)

The red jagged lines are visual barriers.

The yellow text are existing conditions.

I also created a layer called "Destinations". Which would have been pink dots. Notice their aren't any!

Analysis:

1. The biggest problem with the site is access. It has piss poor access from all conceivable angles and is not very well laid out. You have very few connections from the Highway. The general speeds in the area are rather fast which brings up a safety question if you getting there by bike, or walking. Even if you did walk or bike you would have to contend with visual or imaginary barriers that you see in the jagged lines. These are barriers which are formed by current land uses, roads, physical barriers, etc... From the neighborhodds you only have one way out and that is to use the main access into the neighborhood which would make a normal walk into something that isn't very pleasent. You have warehouse properties which butt up against the neighborhoods on the west side preventing easy access. In the East you have the highways which are large physical and visual barriers to accessing the area. This would be the biggest problem you would have to overcome if this was your primary station.

2. Transportation is another issue. The only good access to the station is by car, but what about people who ARRIVE at the station and are from out of town? Very very few options for them to get around. Of course if you do place it here you would see an increase in taxi's, rent-a-cars, which will only increase the use of cars in this area and just to get anywhere it would be very expensive!

3. The area is characterized by the gradual decay of suburban infrastructure, culture, residential, and commercial. Many of these areas are in deep decline and many people are moving out of these areas! The commercial buildings here are either low-rise commercial, declining highrises, or declining mid-rises. Warehouses make up the main uses in the area which also brings to point number 4.

4. This area is not a destination! It is an in-between. A place to pass through and not go too. I mean the main industry of the area is transportation or distribution centers which take things to other places not the current location.

5. Earlier I said that I had created a layer called "destinations" (this was done quickly in Illustrator), but I honestly couldn't think about what were "Destinations". I don't think HISD, Warehouses, fast food joints, big box stores, a few bars and a strip club at Mangum and 290 are going to draw anyone to this area. If I'm missing anything here of importance then please address it. Trains are best when they take you straight to a destination! When you get out of a Train you are immediately there and have easy access to places that are there! Train terminals are great points for people getting off and entering the city for the first time. Is this the kind of Houston you want people to get their first view of?

Addressing Ross's Comments:

"You aren't willing to explore alternatives at all"

1. When you say there are other alternatives to a given situation then it is your responsibility as the opposition to present alternatives! It's not up to those in support! From there you see if those work and if they don't then you move on and if they might work then there is compromise. You bring no alternatives to the table so why should anyone take seriously your opposition? This is a genuine question!

2. Anytime I hear this it simply means that they are only going to agree if they getting everything they want out of the deal. That never happens. There will certainly be compromises to follow, but both parties will have to have some give or take, but lets be honest here. TCR has an incredible advantage. They have the evidence to back up that their product works both in concept and real world use, they have political backing from both cities and those in state government because it is privately funded, and if the environmental study shows that it is ok to build then you have a lot to provide in opposition other than. I don't want it in my backyard! This means you would not only have to give substantial examples of it affecting public safety, but will have to prove that it actually is a harm to the economy. It's even more difficult for the fact that this is a private company and not a government project so you can't use the argument about taxpayers!

3. If there are better alternatives, then I ask, what are they?

"center of population for the area"

1. As I have addressed in my analysis the place is steady decline! Industries are moving to more fertile grounds. Residents are either moving closer into the city or farther out. This isn't the center of population. It isn't the center of Houston's population, the city itself, it's industry, it's commercial, it's culture. In fact it's the opposite of all of those. There is zero presence of Houston's culture, all the energy companies that once called this area home have left, the very site itself is manifestation of the movements of all of these things. It's a decaying ruin of the past and projects that into the surrounding landscape. Trends are showing that the population is shifting inward and those that do live in the suburbs are moving further outward making your argument here very illogical.

2. Give us examples of how it is the "center of population". If you understand what the center means then you would know that it means that there should be a LOT of people here, but there isn't. Most of the time it's a ghost town. Suburbia by it's very nature doesn't even have a "center". It's a continuous void with no defining features or characteristics and due to the horizontal nature of it doesn't leave any place for there to be a concentration of mass to even call a place "center".

"Everyone I know who goes to Dallas for business leaves from home"

Just ask this question, why? Why do you think this has to happen? Probably because it takes 4hrs by driving at least 2hrs for the trip to the airport, airtime, off the airport and to the destination! With this train you could literally go to work in the office in the morning, take the train mid-day and go to a meeting, then literally take the train home at night (that would be a very long day, but you could do that!). Plus this is bs. I know plenty of people I work worth or work in town who make the trip to Dallas from their offices every single day.

"No one I've spoken to wants to be forced to go Downtown to catch a train to Dallas when it's much easier to get to Northwest Mall"

1. No one is "forcing" you to do anything.

2. Downtown during peak work day hours has at least 75,000 to 100,000 workers daily with most of those people already making the commute in town! A significant portion of the working population makes commutes longer than 30mins a day just to get anywhere. This is very weak argument.

3. "it's much easier to get to Northwest Mall". You know what this says? It's easier for YOU to get there. Also from just a very surface analysis it's obvious that it isn't a very easy place to get too. The access points on and off the highways are very poor. The current road infrastructure isn't very efficient to get you there. I drive along Hempstead Hwy many times throughout the week and one thing it isn't is "easy to get too" or drive down.

"As for the folks who live along the rail, their main issue is that no one is really answering their questions fully."

1. So TCR answered NONE of their questions? They had all of these meetings an nothing was addressed? Public meetings where they were there to answer YOUR questions and they didn't answer anything?

2. They answered your questions. The answers however were not the answers the people who are against this WANT to hear.

"No analysis of what happens if a freight train derails and takes out HSR pylons"

1. I know what you are trying to do and I don't like it. These are hypothetical's (while plausible) are not everyday assurances and are in fact very rare! It's also one where you ignoring common practice not only for freight trains, but for all trains in general. Many trains are not going full speed once they reach the inner city anyway and if an accident were to happen no force on earth is going to be able to stop it! That's why they call those things "accidents". You do your best to avoid them, but you live your life and if it happens it happens, but you make it sound like this is intentional.

2. Please give us the accident records of HSR. It's almost comparable to plane travel! You get killed more driving then you ever would via HSR or air travel!

3. I honestly shouldn't even address this because due to the very specific nature of this proposed accident it only shows what YOUR fears are. If you don't want to live next to a railroad then leave! No one is making you stay there. You know the risks of living next to one and therefore it's your fault. It's like living in Tornado valley if you don't like Tornado's then don't live in a area called TORNADO VALLEY! I have no sympathy for those who know the risks they face yet try to push blame on others as if it's other peoples problem and not theirs.

"No answers on what the construction process behind their houses will look like. No answers on what happens to the drainage ditches that run along the freight lines. No answers on how much, if any space the HSR work will need."

1. Once again, where none of you at the meetings? Weren't they not public meetings where you could ask them these questions? Have you tried to do any research on your own into these questions from other projects world wide to see what might be the case? Their is something called the internet which allows you to find a treasure trove of info about these things, but again no....that's TCR's fault. I'm not suppose to do anything! I'm not suppose to be an independent thinker and seek out information that could very well impact my community. No all I want to do is complain about it.

2. I imagine they did answer questions such as those you asked, but they didn't give the answers that satisfied you and immediately threw them out.

" 'I deserve some explanation of what might happen, not just to be told to suck it up and get out of the way' "

1. Probably the most entitled statement I have ever heard.

2. One of the biggest myths about private enterprise is the fact that some people feel like private enterprise "owes" us something. They don't owe you anything! They are simply providing a service and whats great about our country is that you can choose to participate in the enterprise, buy from the enterprise, or ignore the enterprise. If this was a public project then yes they "owe" us explanation, but this is a private company working in private property. As long as they are following the law they don't owe you anything. Until they have to use Eminent Domain (which I really don't think they will use) then they aren't immediately owed the public anything.

I'll probably analysis Downtown in Part two, but that's for another time.

This. I went to all three meetings. Two and three were just fear mongering ignorant neighborhood associations with no information and false fears with absurdly hilarious accusations. And the competing neighborhoods said the project was great so long as it went through the other neighborhood but not theirs. Classic NIMBY's. High speed Japanese rail is about as safe a technology as there is for travel, and the impact would be minimal and much quieter than the freight trains that currently go by and even cars.

[Ross]

not trying to be rude, but by that logic i guess you are suggesting the train should go from Cypress or Tomball to Waxahachie and dump people off out there in the middle of nowhere, so no neighborhoods are affected? because you do realize there are neighborhoods between the outskirts of Greater Houston and Northwest Mall.. right?

edit. and i guess you dont care about the neighborhoods in southern Dallas that will be affected? im sure you saw that the 2 station location proposals in Dallas are right outside of their downtown. again, why should a few thousand people get to stop the progress thats for the benefit of 13 million (and counting)? that is whats selfish here. not TCR.

 

No, I don't live in Dallas and could not care less what happens there. It has no effect on me or anyone I know.

 

Where did this idea about benefiting 13 million people come from? That may be the total population in the areas affected, but not everyone will benefit. The vast majority don't care and will never utilize the train or see any benefit.

 

[Ross]

So took some time to make some initial analysis of the current situation at NW Mall to see if what you say actually has merit.

 

major snippage

You are really arguing that Lazybrook and Timbergrove are declining? Both areas are popular and increasing in price, with numerous renovations and new construction.

 

I find it ludicrous that you out of hand dismiss the concerns of the people affected by the proposals. You are basically giving them a huge FU. They were not well informed by or about the public meetings. No one notified them or sent any information. They aren't feeling entitled, they are feeling scared and concerned that the biggest investment of their lives may be rendered worthless or impossible to sell. Their fear is a common response to a threat they don't understand. More information would help.

[mollusk]

Thanks for the analysis, Luminaire.  I'm looking forward to your thoughts on the downtown sites, warts and all - one of which might be where to put the parking.

 

Timbergrove and Lazybrook (the neighborhoods right inside the Loop) might be a bit surprised to be called "declining," though.

[cloud713]

No, I don't live in Dallas and could not care less what happens there. It has no effect on me or anyone I know.

Where did this idea about benefiting 13 million people come from? That may be the total population in the areas affected, but not everyone will benefit. The vast majority don't care and will never utilize the train or see any benefit.

I find it ludicrous that you out of hand dismiss the concerns of the people affected by the proposals.

forgive me, but did you not just say in the quoted post above that you dont care about the neighborhoods/people affected in Dallas? pretty damn hypocritical IMO. in that case, why should Luminare care about the affected residents preventing the train from going downtown? especially if it "has no effect on him or anyone he knows"..(a very selfish reason I might I add, if that is your logic on why the train should be kept from going downtown)

Edit: I should of said *potential benefit of 13 million people.

And yeah.. My buddy has family in a well kept house in Lazybrook, granted most of the houses have gates across the driveways..

Edited February 9, 2015 by cloud713

[Slick Vik]

You are really arguing that Lazybrook and Timbergrove are declining? Both areas are popular and increasing in price, with numerous renovations and new construction.

I find it ludicrous that you out of hand dismiss the concerns of the people affected by the proposals. You are basically giving them a huge FU. They were not well informed by or about the public meetings. No one notified them or sent any information. They aren't feeling entitled, they are feeling scared and concerned that the biggest investment of their lives may be rendered worthless or impossible to sell. Their fear is a common response to a threat they don't understand. More information would help.

Because they don't read newspapers or aren't informed so they miss meetings isn't the fault of TCR. More of a reflection of the people that live there.

[mfastx]

Great post Luminare. 

 

I think most people with knowledge of transportation planning would agree that the optimal location for a HSR station without taking into account cost would be downtown, and a station near Uptown (the proposed 290 area station would do fine) would be even better to go along with the downtown location.  A perfect example of this type of layout is Boston, with the downtown South Station location in addition to the "Back Bay" station down the road.  Anytime you can hit multiple large employment centers you do it.  

 

Remember, the only reason they are looking at this location is because of cost, it's central enough to get enough people to ride it, and it's in an area where land is cheaper and they can build a station more easily.  They are trying to make money with this project and going all the way to downtown would be a huge capital expense initially.  Hopefully they can make it work. 

 

Hitting both downtown and uptown is perfect, especially if they ever get that light rail/BRT thing going from the 290 area to Uptown, that'd be a perfect high capacity transit mode that can take people from the HSR station to points Uptown, and of course you have the light rail which can do the same downtown.  

 

There is already an existing freight rail line going from this location to downtown, so I'm not really seeing the neighborhood concerns argument.  The proposed route doesn't even go through that highly populated of an area. 

[mollusk]

Kinda partly answering my own question about parking, as well as the comment about driving downtown vs. driving to the airport - 

 

I work downtown.  I know how long it's going to take me to get to work, and I know my way around.  I drive in; like most people who do, I've got a regular place to park.  As with many Mole People, it's even paid for on a monthly basis.  

 

Currently, when I go to Dallas I drive to Hobby, park, etc. if it's just for a day or two.  If I'm going from Hobby to someplace for a week or so, though, I'll park at work and cab it the rest of the way - cabs being easier to get downtown, and cheaper from HOU to downtown than to my house.  If there was a mass transit alternative that didn't take forever and a day, I'd use it - as I do in cities where such things exist.  If the alternative of HSR to Dallas from a downtown station existed, you bet I'd park in my already paid for, I know where it is, contract slot and hoof it over to the station.

[ADCS]

would provide a much needed boost to the area

 

Never quite understood this argument. Short and medium-range transportation projects almost always work best when they respond to existing demand, and serve to enhance and entrench that existing demand. If you put a transportation terminal in a run-down area, it's not going to revitalize it - instead, people will avoid it in preference to existing options.

 

A perfect example of this is the NJ Transit River Line, running between Camden, NJ and Trenton, NJ, two particularly undesirable areas. Even though tickets are a fraction of taking SEPTA Regional Rail between Philadelphia and Trenton, and the time in transit is fairly equivalent, the latter route gets far higher ridership for two reasons - first, that most riders are trying to get to Center City Philadelphia or the transit links that can be found there, and second, most people would prefer to avoid Camden.

 

While Lazybrook and Timbergrove are improving in esteem, Spring Branch East is not. Northwest Mall is more associated with Spring Branch East than the other two, and combined with the access difficulties that Luminare described, could make a terminal there a difficult proposition for success.