Texas Central Project

[HoustonIsHome]

The airport is 4 miles away, sure, but not the rail that would be used for passenger service. That runs directly adjacent to Greenspoint.

That gave me a good laugh, HoustonIsHome. I don't mean to disrespect you if GP is your home neighborhood, but where do you want me to start on what's wrong with Greenspoint visually? The hourly rate hotels that line the Beltway, the parade of hookers that make their way up and down the Belt from Rick's, er...Jaguar's to frequent those very hotels, the mostly shuttered mall, or the crackheads and hooligans that roam the streets, day and night, looking for an opportunity to take whatever isn't absolutely bolted down?

I've worked up here in GP for many years. It is certainly not the rosy red picture some try to paint it as, and needs a lot more work done to it besides some new street signs, trees, stop lights, and fancy brickwork lining the streets.

If Greenspoint was what some in the area make it out to be, the "Renaissance at Greenspoint" project wouldn't be dragging out over the course of a decade now. That big, new, beautiful 20 screen theater that was supposed to breath new life to the mall, hasn't. Where are all the new restaurants and businesses lining Greenspoint Drive and Greens Road at, that were supposed to be open and bustling with activity by now? The Chamber of Commerce wouldn't ever admit to it, but the likelihood of GP ever being resurrected and actually restored to its past glory, is slim.

Again, the mall is 4 miles away.

Secondly, I am taking about greens point.

Greenspoint is the area between Hardy and Ella. Greenspoint is not the area around the airport asking the beltway.

When I get on a pc I will post pics of Greenspoint. It is surprisingly green abd scenic. There are quite a few well kept parks in the area.

Frankly I think you are one of those drive by people who have a strong opinion of something you know little about.

The area east of Hardy along the beltway and south of it is NOT NOT NOT NOT Greenspoint or even the city if Houston. It is Aldine CDP.

You can have a good laugh if you want. Gi ahead wallow in that ignorance. Greenspoint is high crime but I stand by my point it is far from ugly

[HoustonIsHome]

Light Rail could take an hour or longer. Besides, the high-speed rail will have existing space for luggage.

Its about 8 miles north of the northline center. If there are no more stops the rail would get there in 15 minutes. But yes, that's from northline. How long does it take from northline to Mainstreet sq?

[august948]

 Greenspoint is high crime but I stand by my point it is far from ugly

 

A mugging is always much better when done in a green and scenic setting.

 

[IronTiger]

[on Greenspoint] A few years back, I was at the Renaissance Festival with some friends of a friend. They lived in Greenspoint, and defended it, saying it wasn't bad as people made it out to be, though the mall WAS bad.

[on commute to rail] As the bird flies, in Dallas, the airport is about 16 miles away from downtown (approximately). The light rail is 20 miles, with minimal street runnings but with several curves. In Houston, it's the same distance (approximately) but we don't have a lot of spare ROW to work with, so we'll have to do street running. Unless we add light rail down I-45. HSR, conversely, would use up even more right of way than light rail ever would, as you can't have at grade crossings or street running.

[HoustonIsHome]

What about that ROW that runs about two blocks east of Elysian? It runs into Hardy where its a straight shot to the airport (10 miles according to Google maps) from the Hardy yards. A direct rail route (no stops from there would be less than 20 minutes. Riders could transfer to the red line at the Burnet station

[Purpledevil]

HoustonIsHome: I work in Greenspoint. I see it daily, and have for the past 20 years. I am talking about the area that you've stated in your boundaries, and our offices are off of Imperial Valley & Benmar. I understand that you've seen a lot of cosmetic upgrades being done around the area, and associate that with a much nicer, friendlier place than what the area is notorious for. In some respects, it is. However, until the rampant prostitution, drug activity, and constant break-ins are brought under control, I'd personally not want a gleaming new high speed train debark out of town visitors directly next to it.

That's just my opinion of the area, because I do know it as well as I do. I believe I have personally offended you, and for that I am sorry. You obviously have a fond relationship with the area, and I've struck a nerve. I certainly didn't intend to do that to you or anyone else here. My apology for the offense.

As for that stretch of track you mentioned near Elysian, after it passes the Crosstimbers tunnel, the line is encased by the HTR. There are no street crossings over the rail until well north of the Beltway, making this a very attractive looking line for high speed service. Once the HTR is extended down to I-10, I believe that would surround the rails all the way to downtown.

[HoustonIsHome]

I have no fond memories of Greenspoint. I just hate people saying areas are ugly because it is high crime. The four buildings on the corners of the Benmar and imperial valley intersection are far from ugly. Even the highly ghetto City view place apartments on the northwest corner.

If you think this area is ugly then you have not lived.

Take a shot at 5th ward, parts of 3rd ward, Sunnyside. THOSE areas are ugly.

Greenspoint, Fondren, Gulfton, are dense high crime areas but they are not ugly.

Prostitution happens all over the world from palaces on down. That does not mean an area is ugly.

The intersection you talk about had immaculate roads, well kept buildings, and landscaping renewed multiple times a year. If you don't tell any visitor that this area is high crime, they would think its a nice area.

I hate when people say an area is ugly because it is high crime.

[HoustonIsHome]

Here are a few Greenspoint pics, the last two are city view place which is on Bennar and Imperial.

It has ghetto clientele but far from what I would call ugly.

Why would visitors on the rail be turned off?

[HoustonIsHome]

The Park I am talking about is not Wussow. That is a regular run of the mill park. I Ann taking about the award winning Ida Gaye park. Look up the Spring Skate Park on Kuykendahl. But that is besides the point.

You said we don't want people first impression of Houston to be Greenspoint. How does any of what you said affect the look of the area? You have provided no evidence to refute the claim that Greenspoint is a visually well kept area.

Sorry but you lose on that point. I don't think anyone would argue if you had said that you don't want a visitor s first experience to be being mugged in greenspoint I don't think anyone would disagree, but you are making chains about aesthetics when Greenspoint is no different from 99% of Houston. In fact it is greener than most parts of the city and that is an accomplishment because Houston is very green.

This argument is silly. Until you show something other than the "I might get mugged" evidence, I am done going around in circles on this. You are letting what you hear of an area paint a picture of the area as a whole

[august948]

Unfortunately, the way things are now, the travel guides and reviews are going to tell people to be careful when getting off at a Greenspoint-area station.  Not the way we want to greet visitors, either, regardless of how beautiful the area might be.

[HoustonIsHome]

Unfortunately, the way things are now, the travel guides and reviews are going to tell people to be careful when getting off at a Greenspoint-area station. Not the way we want to greet visitors, either, regardless of how beautiful the area might be.

Travel guides??? Greenspoint stop???

Did I just enter some other dimension or something.

What travel guides and stops are you talking about?

The discussion is about IAH. The look of Greenspoint is an irrelevant side issue in terms of high speed rail

[august948]

Travel guides??? Greenspoint stop???

Did I just enter some other dimension or something.

What travel guides and stops are you talking about?

The discussion is about IAH. The look of Greenspoint is an irrelevant side issue in terms of high speed rail

 

My comment is based on these from PurpleDevil...

 

The problem with a stop at IAH is where the stop would have to be, as well as IAH's airlines not being receptive to the competition to their DFW to Houston business. The rail line is located a couple miles west of the airport, and I don't know of any place along the Hardy Toll that would be safe to unload passengers from a commuter train, until you get down to Hardy Yards.

 

 

The airport is 4 miles away, sure, but not the rail that would be used for passenger service. That runs directly adjacent to Greenspoint.

Looking on google maps it appears that the line in question runs less than a mile from Greenspoint mall.  Is that not considered Greenspoint.  Regardless, if the stop needs to be on the line and not at directly at IAH due to technical or financial reasons, then it would likely be in the Greenspoint area.  That being the case, there will be mention of the station and it's surroundings in future travel guides.  Wherever they put the new station, Greenspoint, The Woodlands, or Downtown, the station will be mentioned in guidebooks and on the internet along with it's surroundings.  Now, it's quite possible that IF, if I say, a Greenspoint/IAH station comes about it will bring sufficient activity and security upgrades that the crime situation in the area will change, but that will be after the fact.  In the meantime, the station would risk something like this...

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/11/14/16-american-cities-foreign-governments-warn-their-citizens-about/

 

 

Houston: Be vigilant if traveling through Downtown, south and east Houston at night.

[IronTiger]

Gee, you think it's possible that the warnings are out of date?   

 

While Downtown isn't exactly a safe haven, it's better than Greenspoint. If we are discussing Greenspoint area at all, it's because of the airport, and then we should place a stop at the airport, not at Greenspoint.

[Purpledevil]

Wow...well guess I better just shut up now. What do I know? I've only worked in the area since 1989.

Let's try a more direct approach with you, since you seem blinded by your own mythical ideas of what Greenspoint really is. I'll ask the question again. When were YOU last time physically in Greenspoint? I am here daily. I don't have to "hear" about what's been happening over the years up here, I can SEE it with my own eyes.

I never said "we" anything, only "I". I think Greenspoint is a crime filled cesspool. I didn't say anyone else feels that way, or should. You are trying to put words in my mouth for the sake of your argument. I am stating facts about the area I know and commute to every single day. You are posting pictures that look like flyers you'd pick up in the office of one of those apartment complexes, or on a property map of the hotels. Oh, and Ida Gaye park? Really, it's what...a couple years old? You are talking about new development on the far end of the area. Wussow is in the heart of Greenspoint, right smack dab in the middle of the action. This is the park to get a true representation of the area. How would train riders ever even see Ida Gaye from the rail line? You, sir, are grasping for straws, at best.

You are absolutely right on one thing, this is going around and around in circles and nowhere fast. My eyes paint the picture of Greenspoint for me. I invite you on up, we can sit back and crack open a cold one in the parking lot, and watch the gangbangers, pimps, and hoes conduct their business together. Then you'll see it for yourself why I personally wouldn't want a rail station up here.

August, you are right. The rail is directly next to the Greenspoint area. My safety concern for a stop along this line is as much about unloading passengers next to the toll road, with cars zipping by at 70+ miles an hour, as it is dumping people off in the crime riddled area. You are spot on with how the area would be looked upon in travel guides and reviews if for some reason they actually built a station up here. The point is moot anyway, the line isn't even considering a stop up here, and it's just us speculating the "what ifs". Not sure why my fellow user is so adamant about defending the place. I kind of wonder if he works for the Greenspoint Chamber of Commerce. Sounds like the same "look, we're making Greenspoint beautiful" spiel they've been repeating for the last dozen years. Do something about the rampant crime that forces most to steer clear of GP. Then, the area can truly be beautiful.

[Slick Vik]

Wow...well guess I better just shut up now. What do I know? I've only worked in the area since 1989.

Let's try a more direct approach with you, since you seem blinded by your own mythical ideas of what Greenspoint really is. I'll ask the question again. When were YOU last time physically in Greenspoint? I am here daily. I don't have to "hear" about what's been happening over the years up here, I can SEE it with my own eyes.

I never said "we" anything, only "I". I think Greenspoint is a crime filled cesspool. I didn't say anyone else feels that way, or should. You are trying to put words in my mouth for the sake of your argument. I am stating facts about the area I know and commute to every single day. You are posting pictures that look like flyers you'd pick up in the office of one of those apartment complexes, or on a property map of the hotels. Oh, and Ida Gaye park? Really, it's what...a couple years old? You are talking about new development on the far end of the area. Wussow is in the heart of Greenspoint, right smack dab in the middle of the action. This is the park to get a true representation of the area. How would train riders ever even see Ida Gaye from the rail line? You, sir, are grasping for straws, at best.

You are absolutely right on one thing, this is going around and around in circles and nowhere fast. My eyes paint the picture of Greenspoint for me. I invite you on up, we can sit back and crack open a cold one in the parking lot, and watch the gangbangers, pimps, and hoes conduct their business together. Then you'll see it for yourself why I personally wouldn't want a rail station up here.

August, you are right. The rail is directly next to the Greenspoint area. My safety concern for a stop along this line is as much about unloading passengers next to the toll road, with cars zipping by at 70+ miles an hour, as it is dumping people off in the crime riddled area. You are spot on with how the area would be looked upon in travel guides and reviews if for some reason they actually built a station up here. The point is moot anyway, the line isn't even considering a stop up here, and it's just us speculating the "what ifs". Not sure why my fellow user is so adamant about defending the place. I kind of wonder if he works for the Greenspoint Chamber of Commerce. Sounds like the same "look, we're making Greenspoint beautiful" spiel they've been repeating for the last dozen years. Do something about the rampant crime that forces most to steer clear of GP. Then, the area can truly be beautiful.

 

To be fair, a stop in greenspoint would probably be helpful for the population that lives there. And there are many trains all around the world that stop in bad areas. If you don't get off or get on there, what's the issue? BART goes through bad parts of Oakland, many trains in New York go through brownsville, queensbridge, the bronx, etc. I've never felt scared going through the areas.

Unfortunately, the way things are now, the travel guides and reviews are going to tell people to be careful when getting off at a Greenspoint-area station.  Not the way we want to greet visitors, either, regardless of how beautiful the area might be.

 

They should write that about wheeler station.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Slick Vik

[Montrose1100]

Unfortunately, the way things are now, the travel guides and reviews are going to tell people to be careful when getting off at a Greenspoint-area station.  Not the way we want to greet visitors, either, regardless of how beautiful the area might be.

I can hear the tour guides now "Fun Fact: Exxon used to spend +$2,000,000.00 a year alone in security while at their Greenspoint Offices".

[cloud713]

The point is moot anyway, the line isn't even considering a stop up here, and it's just us speculating the "what ifs". 

^^^ this. Greenspoint was never even in consideration for a stop.. why bicker and moan about something that doesnt matter? 

Now do we think this HSR from Dallas will come in from 290, or 45/Hardy?

the areas along 290 are pretty nice looking to give good impressions of Houston, but as has been pointed out, once you get south of The Woodlands and Spring, north Houston isnt the most attractive part of town.. though IMO a direct HSR route from Dallas-Houston along 45/Hardy would be preferred over a highway 6 route. so what do we do? do we make an attempt at gentrifying/sprucing up the houses in the 5th ward that back up to the future Hardy TR/rail road tracks? surely we dont want visitors first impressions of Houston being rundown houses in north Houston...

[Naviguessor]

This is not a commuter rail idea for the city to take cars off of the streets.  It is an intercity connector that would planes out of the sky.  I would be far too expensive for a daily commute into and out of town or even just to the airport, or probably from Downtown Houston to the Woodlands.  It may Makes sense for Business people from Dallas to commute to the Woodlands, but not much else. 

[IronTiger]

It should go northwest, as there's already ROW planned for it, and from there go to Austin/San Antonio, or to College Station/Dallas.

[Purpledevil]

Logic would say the 45 line, cloud. It's a straight, level grade and during its run through Houston proper, has no street crossings until you get south of 610. That is, until the HTR is expanded further south. That, too, should be grade crossing free at streets like Calvacade, Lyons, Quitman, etc., once the toll road is extended and bridges over the toll road (and rail lines) are built.

In my estimation, the 290 route would be a nightmare just getting out of Houston alone. There are cossings at every intersection from W. 12th all the way up to FM 529. Once past Houston, you could pick up some speed through Hockley, Waller, Prairie View, etc., but another slow down would come when the track turns toward College Station. After that, the biggest obstacle facing a high speed line on this route would be the massive RR yard in Hearne, that is constantly switching the rolling stock around. To me, the obvious choice would be the line going north up the Hardy. Much fewer obstacles that could potentially delay the train along this route.

Standing O for Montrose1100! That was just too funny. Add Halliburton/KBR to that list. They use armed, off duty HPD officers to patrol their campus.

[Slick Vik]

College station is out of the way

[IronTiger]

It's really not, especially if you're talking about going to Dallas. College Station has a major university with very powerful people that are going to push HSR, and before you bring up the doomed Amtrak route, that was using a very odd route that routed it through Corsicana (not Waco) before going to Dallas. (Frankly, I doubt you've ever even poked around the area with Google Earth, much less actually visited it in person)

[Slick Vik]

It's really not, especially if you're talking about going to Dallas. College Station has a major university with very powerful people that are going to push HSR, and before you bring up the doomed Amtrak route, that was using a very odd route that routed it through Corsicana (not Waco) before going to Dallas. (Frankly, I doubt you've ever even poked around the area with Google Earth, much less actually visited it in person)

 

I've been to college station a few times. I just wonder how much time it would add to the route, and if the Japanese care to stop there. It's not on the straight line route a la 45.

[cloud713]

Already ROW planned for high speed rail to the north west? I wasn't aware of that. I thought they may have set row to the side for a commuter rail line, but that's it?

I think the northwest line would be more visually appealing, but agree with purpledevil the hardy ROW to 45 would be the better option. We'll see what the central texas railroad company thinks is the best route sometime this year (I believe)..

[IronTiger]

Already ROW planned for high speed rail to the north west? I wasn't aware of that. I thought they may have set row to the side for a commuter rail line, but that's it?

I think the northwest line would be more visually appealing, but agree with purpledevil the hardy ROW to 45 would be the better option. We'll see what the central texas railroad company thinks is the best route sometime this year (I believe).. [

My290.com shows the PDFs with ROW for an HSR (or something) line.

 

and if the Japanese care to stop there.

Japanese? What the heck are you talking about? 

Edited January 22, 2014 by IronTiger

[Purpledevil]

Wasn't that ROW up Hempstead Highway considered for another light rail extension for Metro as part of the Hempstead Toll Road project? That may be what you're looking at in the PDF, IronTiger. I remember the discussion regarding this line and ROW from a couple of years back, just not exactly what its purpose was. That idea may have gotten nixed when the Hempstead Toll project did.

[cloud713]

My290.com shows the PDFs with ROW for an HSR (or something) line.

Japanese? What the heck are you talking about?

I'm 90% sure that ROW was marked as so for the Hempstead commuter rail line they've been talking about for ages..

And Japanese as in JR railways, the company behind the Dallas to Houston high speed rail line.. I doubt they've even heard of college station, but maybe Eckles(?) is pushing for a CS stop.. Since I go to Baylor, it pains me to see college station in the discussions to get a stop without any consideration given to Waco.. I really hope there are no stops between Houston and Dallas...

[Montrose1100]

It's really not, especially if you're talking about going to Dallas. College Station has a major university with very powerful people that are going to push HSR, and before you bring up the doomed Amtrak route, that was using a very odd route that routed it through Corsicana (not Waco) before going to Dallas. (Frankly, I doubt you've ever even poked around the area with Google Earth, much less actually visited it in person)

My father owns land outside of Corsicana. In fact the rail line runs right next to it. It's probably not the worst place in the state, but I'd say it's up there. College Station would make sense but it should only be a periodic/seasonal (like in between semesters), stop and not always in the way of the direct route from Dallas to Houston.

[august948]

I'm 90% sure that ROW was marked as so for the Hempstead commuter rail line they've been talking about for ages..

And Japanese as in JR railways, the company behind the Dallas to Houston high speed rail line.. I doubt they've even heard of college station, but maybe Eckles(?) is pushing for a CS stop.. Since I go to Baylor, it pains me to see college station in the discussions to get a stop without any consideration given to Waco.. I really hope there are no stops between Houston and Dallas...

 

I'm noping too that they include a stop at Waco in the SA-DFW route. 

 

I still think it'd be cool if they cut DFW out and ran it Houston-CS-Waco.

 

[IronTiger]

And Japanese as in JR railways, the company behind the Dallas to Houston high speed rail line.. I doubt they've even heard of college station, but maybe Eckles(?) is pushing for a CS stop.. Since I go to Baylor, it pains me to see college station in the discussions to get a stop without any consideration given to Waco.. I really hope there are no stops between Houston and Dallas...

I'm not, by the way, being a fanboy, I'm addressing what is a huge issue in planning HSR. It's all politics, of course...