Texas Central Project

[Triton]

It seems likely Texas Central Railway will with a development partner for the station site, just as they are doing with Matthews Southwest in Dallas...  I can't think of anyone better than Midway for the job.

 

Very true.

[cloud713]

So when will we find out? Surely they can't keep a secret for too long. I wonder how a HSR station and TCR will influence Midways current Post Office site plans

[mollusk]

There appear to be a couple more moving parts on this one than with the Dallas station.  

 

Remember, up there all the routes pretty much converged well south of town, which itself wasn't much competition for the relatively small section of downtown that made sense.  "Take a fast trip to Duncanville!!!!" just isn't a thing; we've got three popularly discussed locations (NW Mall, Post Office, and the railyard) that each have distinct pros, cons, and math.  On top of that, while there's a preferred route into town from Montgomery/Grimes counties, it's not yet final.  NW Mall, for example, makes a lot more sense when coming in from the (granted, preferred) utility corridor, which passes it, than from the BNSF route, which doesn't - so it's not really two or three possibilities to number crunch, it's as many as six.

Edited March 9, 2015 by mollusk

[Ross]

Are there any other good spots in downtown that could work for the HSR station?

 

Yep, Northwest Mall.

 

[ADCS]

Yep, Northwest Mall.

 

 

That's downtown now?

[Slick Vik]

Yep, Northwest Mall.

That's inaccurate geography. Northwest Mall is a dead dump it's central to nothing but Pizza Inn.

[IronTiger]

That's downtown now?

Well, considering the vast outer loop parts of Houston (what, 80% of the city?) NW Mall is pretty close all things considered. It's all relative...

[mollusk]

Are there any other good spots in downtown that could work for the HSR station?

 

Other than the two that are frequently mentioned, not really.  Northwest Mall isn't downtown, although as a station location it has its merits with the utility ROW routing.  It would also require a bit of a dice roll with regard to how much complementary redevelopment would come into being nearby, and how long it would take.

 

Maybe if they go through with the downtown highway rework, the Pierce Elevated? It's next to the bus station, could reuse infrastructure...I mean, it's probably not what will end up happening, but it's an idea.

 

The problem with going down towards Midtown is that other than somehow routing on the Pierce Elevated, it would require buying up a lot of expensive land for right of way.  That, and it pretty much would require going back over the same ROW to expand to the east or west, and even more expensive land purchases for going towards Galveston.

Edited March 10, 2015 by mollusk

[Ross]

That's downtown now?

Yes. New definition of Downtown that includes everything that needs to be redeveloped and could benefit from a new name. Hipsters can now claim to live Downtown while renting a crappy apartment in a mediocre neighborhood, leaving them more disposable income to waste on Washington Avenue.

 

That's inaccurate geography. Northwest Mall is a dead dump it's central to nothing but Pizza Inn.

You don't have a sense of humor, do you?

[Tower26]

Downtown Eastside GRB/Toyota Center/Minute Maid Park and Congress Yard (UP) is one suggestion .

[BigFootsSocks]

Yes. New definition of Downtown that includes everything that needs to be redeveloped and could benefit from a new name. Hipsters can now claim to live Downtown while renting a crappy apartment in a mediocre neighborhood, leaving them more disposable income to waste on Washington Avenue.

You don't have a sense of humor, do you?

Yeah how naive of him to not be able to interpret your sarcasm over the Internet...>_>

[mollusk]

(note to self... do not feed trolls today...) 

[Sparrow]

Are there any other good spots in downtown that could work for the HSR station?

 

Sure the engineering would be a challenge, but not impossible. I still say find a way to build the station on top of the GRB.

 

That's about as central as you'll get in Downtown without tunneling. It wouldn't take much to connect it to the tunnel system. It's already along the light rail. Access via car is the best you'll achieve. Adding thousands of parking spaces near the GRB, Toyota Center, Minute Maid, and BBVA Compass would be well received. My God what a memorable first view we would give to our visitors up there. I'm sure the city could work out some sort of deal with TCR that eliminates the land acquisition costs that would be associated with a station anywhere else (perhaps allow use of the roof for free provided all engineering/construction is paid by TCR and the station is built such that it could be used for commuter rail at an undetermined future date should the city so wish). Think of how many more conventions Houston would attract with such a unique station. It'd be a great way to keep the area lively when conventions aren't going on as well. Talk about mixed use: office, hotel, retail, transportation, parking garage, and civic uses. Let's find a way to put in a residential tower too and call it a day. GRB would become one of the most mixed-use buildings in the world. 

Edited March 10, 2015 by Sparrow

[Slick Vik]

Yes. New definition of Downtown that includes everything that needs to be redeveloped and could benefit from a new name. Hipsters can now claim to live Downtown while renting a crappy apartment in a mediocre neighborhood, leaving them more disposable income to waste on Washington Avenue.

You don't have a sense of humor, do you?

People haven't gone to Washington in years midtown is the spot now and has been for some time. But I'm pleasantly surprised you didn't say Richmond strip.

[cloud713]

Sure the engineering would be a challenge, but not impossible. I still say find a way to build the station on top of the GRB.

 

That's about as central as you'll get in Downtown without tunneling. It wouldn't take much to connect it to the tunnel system. It's already along the light rail. Access via car is the best you'll achieve. Adding thousands of parking spaces near the GRB, Toyota Center, Minute Maid, and BBVA Compass would be well received. My God what a memorable first view we would give to our visitors up there. I'm sure the city could work out some sort of deal with TCR that eliminates the land acquisition costs that would be associated with a station anywhere else (perhaps allow use of the roof for free provided all engineering/construction is paid by TCR and the station is built such that it could be used for commuter rail at an undetermined future date should the city so wish). Think of how many more conventions Houston would attract with such a unique station. It'd be a great way to keep the area lively when conventions aren't going on as well. Talk about mixed use: office, hotel, retail, transportation, parking garage, and civic uses. Let's find a way to put in a residential tower too and call it a day. GRB would become one of the most mixed-use buildings in the world. 

hey now, the GRB roof is reserved for TopGolf and a sports complex! lmao.. on the real though, if were talking about completely reengineering something to support the type of development you describe, i think a better place for it would be on top of the old convention center/Bayou Place. its literally right next to the new light rail line too. they could spur the high speed rail line off the Washington corridor tracks, down through the cities Justice Complex (if it goes up for redevelopment) and right up onto the roof of Bayou Place. man it would be awesome to do something with the roofs of these new and old convention centers. maybe one day when downtown starts to get built out.

[mollusk]

While there's certainly more than a bit of a cool factor in repurposing those temptingly large roofs, I suspect that the cost of re-engineering and reinforcing them to hold up something as heavy as a train is prohibitive.  Engineers, please feel free to run some calculations and chime in. 

[cloud713]

http://m.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2015/03/11/rural-lawmaker-files-a-bill-that-could-kill-texas.html

[BigFootsSocks]

Not sure why the h/dbj would go with this map when they themselves announced the BNSF route is a no-go. Ohhhh wait because their audience targets people who don't care about reading the facts...

[IronTiger]

To get the train into DT Houston without going near the Washington Avenue corridor, why can't they route it down the railroad that goes through Memorial Park and Bellaire, then east paralleling Holmes, and shooting back up the Columbia Tap Rail Trail?

[cspwal]

To get the train into DT Houston without going near the Washington Avenue corridor, why can't they route it down the railroad that goes through Memorial Park and Bellaire, then east paralleling Holmes, and shooting back up the Columbia Tap Rail Trail?

 

I made a quick sketch of both the Washington ave corridor and what I think you were describing. 

 

Going all the way down to Holmes and then turning around adds 13.5 miles to trip, which equals time and added likely hood of it being blocked by NIMBYs.  Note this route goes through River oaks, and if you look on the map at where the Columbia tap trail ends, there's a building between it and the existing freight rail.

 

That being said, a loop around the city might make sense if it is what you have to do - if you ride Amtrak into San Antonio you have to circle downtown.

[ADCS]

To get the train into DT Houston without going near the Washington Avenue corridor, why can't they route it down the railroad that goes through Memorial Park and Bellaire, then east paralleling Holmes, and shooting back up the Columbia Tap Rail Trail?

 

Removing the Columbia Tap trail would cause a riot.

[IronTiger]

Well, if I recall correctly, that building is part of Grocers Supply Co., which I remember reading were going to relocate their facilities to north Houston at the Pinto Business Park, so that isn't the issue. And since the HSR would follow existing lines (at least in parts), there's no reason to assume the Columbia Tap Rail Trail would be affected as well.

But yeah, between River Oaks and Afton Oaks, NIMBYs will make that plan difficult.

[Howard Huge]

http://m.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2015/03/11/rural-lawmaker-files-a-bill-that-could-kill-texas.html

Wait a minute.....the title of the article states that this politicians bill could kill high speed rail, then one paragraph into the article, it says the current chosen route would bypass this a-holes county altogether...... which meeeaaannssss......the headline of the article is BULLS**T sensationalist journalism? Edited March 12, 2015 by Howard Huge

[ADCS]

Wait a minute.....the title of the article states that this politicians bill could kill high speed rail, then one paragraph into the article, it says the current chosen route would bypass this a-holes county altogether...... which meeeaaannssss......the headline of the article is BULLS**T sensationalist journalism?

 

Not exactly - the guy's a state legislator, so he still can do something. If the Senate is OK with TCR, then this is a bunch of hot air and bluster, and the bill will die in committee. If people are on the fence in the Senate, then this will be used as an excuse to extort campaign funds from TCR, and then it'll die in committee.

 

Still, either way, it's bloviating and pontificating.

[Howard Huge]

I see.

A republican in Texas enacting a bill that will "kill rail."

Why does that sound familiar, I swear I've seen this movie before.

Can't be havin' none of that evil rail down here in the BAH-ble belt! The only people that ride them yankee trains are illegals, terr'ists, commies, socialists and homm-uh-suxules!

[Luminare]

Just look at when he joined office. He assumed office this past January! Early 30's, first term rep replacing a 7 year veteran in his seat. If you look at his history the dude has barely made it out of the Conroe/Huntsville area, so he is very wet behind the ears.

 

This looks like nothing but a very young politican looking at making a name for himself in his district, Montgomery County and the current Republican regime, very early. I mean look how absolutely absurd this bill is! I doubt this makes it through the first round of committees!

 

From my understanding of what I've been told TCR has a lot of support from not only local officals, but state officials, TXDOT, etc... Both Dallas and Houston politicans support this project as well. There is no way that these two cities are going to let a small town, first time Republican rep. sink what will be an enormous enterprise and economic benefit to the state. The Republican big wigs will let him have his fun for a little while, but will probably find a way to calm him down as this process continues.

 

Oh and lets not forget....the route no longer goes through Montgomery County, and when someone is simply trying to pass something just because they hate it...it usually gets put down.

 

EDIT: Not to mention this should become a project that Republicans should champion! This high speed rail will soon become involved in the greatest display of Private vs. Public battle in recent memory. That is instant press! You can't beat that! Texas vs. California. One ideology against another. Tell me how Republicans should be against this.....really...I mean really...

 

Just thought I would dig this back up from what I said about this senator a few weeks ago. I insert this as my response to this news article which is nothing but click-bait.

[DNAguy]

I made a quick sketch of both the Washington ave corridor and what I think you were describing. 

 

Going all the way down to Holmes and then turning around adds 13.5 miles to trip, which equals time and added likely hood of it being blocked by NIMBYs.  Note this route goes through River oaks, and if you look on the map at where the Columbia tap trail ends, there's a building between it and the existing freight rail.

 

That being said, a loop around the city might make sense if it is what you have to do - if you ride Amtrak into San Antonio you have to circle downtown.

 

 

Well, if I recall correctly, that building is part of Grocers Supply Co., which I remember reading were going to relocate their facilities to north Houston at the Pinto Business Park, so that isn't the issue. And since the HSR would follow existing lines (at least in parts), there's no reason to assume the Columbia Tap Rail Trail would be affected as well.

But yeah, between River Oaks and Afton Oaks, NIMBYs will make that plan difficult.

 

What about if you made the loop go farther east by UH and then through Eado? Then you could route it a little north of DT as well?

 

Here's my grand plan: 

 

Have a circulator line. This would have stops that transfer to existing and future light rail lines.

 

Have a Sugar land to Downtown line that has a connection to the redline south of 610 and downtown near the Metro HQ. It would also have a connection to the University line and a stop on the east side of the med center. After the Grocer's supply center, the rail would use the median of 288 (the toll-road doesn't go that far I believe) and the ROW that will be abandoned when 45 is routed east of DT and along 59 (fingers crossed). This Med center to DT section can be built later. The east Med center station can even be incorporated into the 288 tollway and its direct connectors as well if designed w/ some sort of large parking element.

 

Possibly have a Sugar land to Northwest transit center line. It would incorporate the west side of the circulator as well. Stops at Braeswood / Beechnut. Xfer to the University / Post Oak Lightrail at Westpark. A stop at Highland Villiage / River Oaks District. And a stop in Memorial Park.

 

This would eventually be a backbone for the spokes out to the other suburbs.

Edited March 12, 2015 by DNAguy

[Luminare]

I like how this thread is finally getting a little creative....but some of these routes are just wacky o.o lol

[BigFootsSocks]

You want creative? TCR should come straight into downtown...from the air. No one would ever expect it

[BigFootsSocks]

Sorry guys, realized how extreme that comment was from this half of the divide. Is this how the..other side lives? Kinda silly if you ask me...