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High Speed Rail / Texas Triangle


MaxConcrete

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Across the world, the train stations are different location, and some have parking and some don't.  For big areas, there are multiple stops in the Metro area, and some even have a station co-located with the airport.

The California HSR is going to be using existing or new downtown stations

Florida's new passenger rail, http://www.allaboardflorida.com/ "the only privately owned, operated and maintained passenger rail system in the United States" will have 4 stations:

 - Downtown Miami

 - Downtown Fort Lauderdale

 - Downtown West Palm Beach

 - Orlando International Airport

 

Orlando's station is going to be a regional hub station.  This could be an example of what Houston could do, but it could also be an example what not to do.  The Florida rail project is further along, with the company closing on land for the stations and construction is underway with a target opening of 2017.  Hopefully TCR can see what works and doesn't for them.

 

 

Finally, I found a new use for the Astrodome - high speed rail station (this is Shanghai South Station)

Shanghai_South_Railway_Station_01.jpg

%E4%B8%8A%E6%B5%B7%E5%8D%97%E7%81%AB%E8%

 

Astrodome is way to big, but finally someone who isn't afraid to think big! Keep it up.

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Finally, I found a new use for the Astrodome - high speed rail station (this is Shanghai South Station)

 

%E4%B8%8A%E6%B5%B7%E5%8D%97%E7%81%AB%E8%

 

ummmm, **** yes!

 

 

Astrodome is way to big, but finally someone who isn't afraid to think big! Keep it up.

 

It would fill up quick though, it would contain the parking, car rental, regional heliport, Houston sports museum, Houston railroad museum, an indoor park, and a mall to rival the Galleria.

 

The heliport would be a bond-esque kind of thing. the roof of the dome would need to be redesigned to allow for a huge diaphram, or iris (I'm imagining a huge lens aperture) that opens to allow helicopters to land inside the dome.

Edited by samagon
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Astrodome is way to big, but finally someone who isn't afraid to think big! Keep it up.

 

The Astrodome is 710 feet in diameter and 183 feet tall, while that South Station is 885 feet in diameter and 154 feet tall, the Astrodome is obviously too small  :P

 

Really it is a bit big for one train, but it has plenty of parking, lots of empty land for facilities (Astroworld) and is connected to public transit.  The only problem is getting the train all the way around Houston to there

ummmm, **** yes!

 

 
 

It would fill up quick though, it would contain the parking, car rental, regional heliport, Houston sports museum, Houston railroad museum, an indoor park, and a mall to rival the Galleria.

 

The heliport would be a bond-esque kind of thing. the roof of the dome would need to be redesigned to allow for a huge diaphram, or iris (I'm imagining a huge lens aperture) that opens to allow helicopters to land inside the dome.

 

The heliport is how you get quick travel times to Energy Corridor and the Galleria!  Nice thinking

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It's pretty clear a downtown site is superior to the NW mall site by every metric outside of cost.  

 

The only reason we are even discussing this is because TCR proposed NW Mall because it'd be a lot cheaper.  Downtown is a lot more central and more accessible. 

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Honestly, 102IAHexpress does kind of have a point, in that it's not necessarily downtown Houston to downtown Dallas, and I have a good feeling that the reason why some of you are discounting the NW Mall site idea is because of the idea is that Dallas built their station downtown, and if it's placed at NW Mall, it makes Houston look cheap in comparison (there was something like that discussed pages before). If Dallas hadn't placed their station downtown, would you be so quick to demand a station downtown as part of an unspoken arms race?

As for travel times, I think the "time without traffic" is a little misleading. Don't the downtown highways tend to get more clogged than most during rush hours? I checked one of your numbers yesterday afternoon (or the day before), and the travel time was twice your listed number because of the rush hour situation.

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Honestly, 102IAHexpress does kind of have a point, in that it's not necessarily downtown Houston to downtown Dallas, and I have a good feeling that the reason why some of you are discounting the NW Mall site idea is because of the idea is that Dallas built their station downtown, and if it's placed at NW Mall, it makes Houston look cheap in comparison (there was something like that discussed pages before). If Dallas hadn't placed their station downtown, would you be so quick to demand a station downtown as part of an unspoken arms race?

As for travel times, I think the "time without traffic" is a little misleading. Don't the downtown highways tend to get more clogged than most during rush hours? I checked one of your numbers yesterday afternoon (or the day before), and the travel time was twice your listed number because of the rush hour situation.

Seriously? The West Loop is probably the most congested freeway in town. And I did not use "without traffic" numbers. I did the calculations with traffic at the time (mid-morning).

 

If you look at rush hour traffic times you'll get similar results.  There is no case to be made that the Northwest Mall site is better for serving the largest destinations or the most destinations in Houston.  Just looking at connections to the various destinations by car, the Post Office site is the hands-down winner.  If you add in the added benefit the Post Office site provides by accessibility to transit and the ability to walk to good portions of downtown, it's no contest.  (There may be other factors supportive of the Northwest Mall site, e.g., land cost, cost to build the rail into downtown; but providing the best accessibility to the most destinations is not a factor that favors the Northwest Mall site.)

 

The Post Office site is more convenient to :

 

Downtown 

Museum District

Texas Medical Centern (and by extension NRG Park)

NASA/Clear Lake/Kemah

Galveston

The Woodlands/Exxon Mobil/Springwoods Village/Conroe

Greenway Plaza

Pearland

Baytown (and by extension, the Beaumont/Port Arthur region)

 

The Northwest Mall site is more convenient to :

The Galleria/Uptown

Sugar Land

Katy/Energy Corridor

Cypress

Edited by Houston19514
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Downtown is actually fairly easy to get in and out of once you learn the street grid. Also this grid makes it remarkably efficient to exit as well since there are so many roads that you can take to get out not just one.

Give me a break nothing is going to convince you. The major disruption is the freight that's already there HSR is much less disruptive and quiet. All I hear from your neighbors is NIMBY ignorance and fear of the unknown.

 

Vik, just how does HSR get downtown without disrupting the existing freight lines? Do you really think UP or BNSF will put up with that disruption? There are no good routes to downtown except, possibly, along I-10, and that assumes TxDOT would be amenable. I have not seen a single viable plan to get HSR trains into Downtown.

 

 

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When did they say that? I don't remember seeing anything specific about the downtowns.

 

On TCR's website in the "Learn the Facts" section there is question saying "where will the stations be" and it says that the stations will be "convenient" to downtown Dallas and Houston.  I guess depending on how you word that you could say that they are saying "downtown Dallas" and "Houston" by itself. 

 

BUT, they do make a point to mention that it will be convenient to Houston's METRO system, which the NW Mall site certainly will not accomplish. 

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Unless they work together with METRO to coincide an opening of a HSR terminal with a light rail extension. 

 

That's not going to happen either, as there's no good way to get light rail out there. There aren't many streets wide enough for light rail between Downtown and Northwest Mall. So, buses it is.

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That's not going to happen either, as there's no good way to get light rail out there. There aren't many streets wide enough for light rail between Downtown and Northwest Mall. So, buses it is.

 

I agree that that isn't going to happen, but you can get light rail wherever you want it, it is not restricted to being at-grade in the middle of a street. 

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That's not going to happen either, as there's no good way to get light rail out there. There aren't many streets wide enough for light rail between Downtown and Northwest Mall. So, buses it is.

 

Um, Washington to Old Katy to N. Post Oak? Something that's been a rail corridor since the 1890s?

 

If people spent as much time and energy solving problems as coming up with them, I'm pretty sure we'd have teleporters by now  :P

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Um, Washington to Old Katy to N. Post Oak? Something that's been a rail corridor since the 1890s?

 

If people spent as much time and energy solving problems as coming up with them, I'm pretty sure we'd have teleporters by now  :P

 

Need the doubters just as much as you need the believers. There would be no motivation to improve or show what can be possible if there were no doubters. I use it as fuel to try harder and think of even more ways it can be possible.

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That's not going to happen either, as there's no good way to get light rail out there. There aren't many streets wide enough for light rail between Downtown and Northwest Mall. So, buses it is.

Jesus quit with your negativity. No no no it's not possible. We get it you're stuck in your ways and hate rail transit and love cars.

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Jesus quit with your negativity. No no no it's not possible. We get it you're stuck in your ways and hate rail transit and love cars.

I am not necessarily against rail, but putting rail down Washington removes capacity from a major thoroughfare with few alternates. Center might work as a path for rail, but buses would be a lot cheaper and far more flexible.

I don't think we really need more rail, at least not as implemented by Metro. I also think you are overestimating the popularity of light rail with business travelers. They tend to prefer cars or taxis, so they don't have to mix with the rabble.

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I am not necessarily against rail, but putting rail down Washington removes capacity from a major thoroughfare with few alternates. Center might work as a path for rail, but buses would be a lot cheaper and far more flexible.

I don't think we really need more rail, at least not as implemented by Metro. I also think you are overestimating the popularity of light rail with business travelers. They tend to prefer cars or taxis, so they don't have to mix with the rabble.

I think you underestimate the rail effect as compared to buses. There is a significant segment of the population that would ride rail that refuses to ride the local bus. And for those that would ride either the bus or train, the train is reliable and extremely frequent two things the buses usually are not.

And I don't care if one thoroughfare is removed people can find alternative routes. Allen parkway and center and memorial are all parallel to Washington I'm tired of this city pandering to drivers and saying to hell with everyone else. Deal with it and find an alternative if Washington has light rail.

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I suspect if they put light rail down Washington, they would still want to keep it at 4 car lanes, as well as have left turning wells (similar to what Scott street was rebuilt as).  This would mean condemning enough land for the road expansion - I don't know if the right of way is currently wide enough to put the equivalent of a 7 lane road in (4 car + 2 light rail + median/turning lane/station).  That being said, it would be nice to start building light rail lines that go to major destinations again (Galleria? Either airport?)

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Jesus quit with your negativity. No no no it's not possible. We get it you're stuck in your ways and hate rail transit and love cars.

 

What's so negative about his comment? Seems like you're negative on busses. Public transpiration is more than just trains. Don't get stuck on your ways of overlooking the popularity of busses in this city, especially with commuters.

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On TCR's website in the "Learn the Facts" section there is question saying "where will the stations be" and it says that the stations will be "convenient" to downtown Dallas and Houston.  I guess depending on how you word that you could say that they are saying "downtown Dallas" and "Houston" by itself. 

 

BUT, they do make a point to mention that it will be convenient to Houston's METRO system, which the NW Mall site certainly will not accomplish.

I think you're stretching it. Right now, TCR is still kind of vague on where they want the stations. I'm sure they meant "convenient to downtown Houston" but Houston is a big place, and that may be in relative. NW Mall, or even Uptown, as many have pointed out, is a whole lot closer to the downtown than anything on the Beltway or beyond, like Cypress or The Woodlands. Secondly, "convenient to Houston's METRO system" is not necessarily referring to METRORail, either. I'm guessing that they're covering all their bases by carefully wording that sort of thing.

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I'm pretty sure we've discussed rail down the Washington corridor before, and usually the result is if anyone brought up freight rail corridors (active or defunct) for light rail use, they would be shot down by self-professed pro-rail fans as having low ridership, even if the "street running" is far slower and would be rather ineffective even getting to the rim of the Loop. At least that was the thoughts about the Richmond vs. Westpark rail corridor.

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I am not necessarily against rail, but putting rail down Washington removes capacity from a major thoroughfare with few alternates. Center might work as a path for rail, but buses would be a lot cheaper and far more flexible.

I don't think we really need more rail, at least not as implemented by Metro. I also think you are overestimating the popularity of light rail with business travelers. They tend to prefer cars or taxis, so they don't have to mix with the rabble.

 

Washington has both I-10 and Memorial Drive within a half mile for moving high-speed arterial traffic. Washington is one of the few arterials in Houston where there actually is sufficient redundancy to reduce capacity.

 

Look, I understand - you don't like rail. That's fine. But specious arguments don't get any of us anywhere.

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On the bus v train debate, my experience is that buses cater to those that do not have a car and need them for mobility. Trains cater to those who prefer the consistency and ease of use. Yes I'm generalizing and yes there are exceptions.

As a business traveler, colleagues and I take rail when it's available, but not buses. Even in a city like Chicago, it's train and walk or if the walk is too far/too cold we hail a cab.

I'd be quite happy to see light rail down the washington corridor. And I'm the same person who has no desire to see the HSR go down that same corridor.

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On the bus v train debate, my experience is that buses cater to those that do not have a car and need them for mobility. Trains cater to those who prefer the consistency and ease of use. Yes I'm generalizing and yes there are exceptions.

 

 

Perhaps true for cities with a heavy rail option. Houston has no heavy rail, so I'm not sure that argument furthers our discussion. In Houston our light rail caters mostly to homeless people and people who park their car near a station and ride for a station or two to their final destination. In Houston commuter busses are very popular. The park and ride system works well. Perhaps that's what the HSR station in Houston will be like?

 

And It's ASLO my experience that business travelers prefer taxi's and Uber, which is to say they prefer cars once they get off the train or plane.

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Perhaps true for cities with a heavy rail option. Houston has no heavy rail, so I'm not sure that argument furthers our discussion. In Houston our light rail caters mostly to homeless people and people who park their car near a station and ride for a station or two to their final destination. In Houston commuter busses are very popular. The park and ride system works well. Perhaps that's what the HSR station in Houston will be like?

 

And It's ASLO my experience that business travelers prefer taxi's and Uber, which is to say they prefer cars once they get off the train or plane.

 

A lot of homeless seem to be wearing scrubs and hospital ID badges or brand new backpacks  :P

 

I feel like a lot of it depends on who the business traveler is, what they're doing there for business (a day meeting is different than coming for OTC), and where they grew up (a New Yorker might be more likely to take the train than someone from Omaha).  Train systems are more inviting to the visitor, because they have simpler maps and large obvious routes.  

 

The whole idea is giving the choice.  If it's possible to give the choice for travel, people will use what is most convenient for them and comfortable for them.

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A lot of homeless seem to be wearing scrubs and hospital ID badges or brand new backpacks  :P

 

 

If you're talking about riders from the Smithlands station to the TMC, that's exactly my point. They ride for a station or two and get off. It's a park and ride. There are park and riders and homeless people on the light rail. Of course there are exceptions but that's the bulk.  If they could they would park in their respective hospital but they can't so they park in the surface lot across from smithlands and ride for a station or two.

 

I almost feel like ridership numbers for our light rail should eliminate the numbers from the smithlands station. That station must inflate numbers by the thousands. The only reason they ride is because parking is limited in the TMC and their companies subsidize the parking and Qcards.

 

That's not a total knock on our light rail. It is popular as a park and ride for upper middle class riders from the med center. Which is to say people like their cars but hate expensive parking. A HSR station in the NW mall parking lot makes a lot of sense from a business perspective.

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If you're talking about riders from the Smithlands station to the TMC, that's exactly my point. They ride for a station or two and get off. It's a park and ride. There are park and riders and homeless people on the light rail. Of course there are exceptions but that's the bulk.  If they could they would park in their respective hospital but they can't so they park in the surface lot across from smithlands and ride for a station or two.

 

I almost feel like ridership numbers for our light rail should eliminate the numbers from the smithlands station. That station must inflate numbers by the thousands. The only reason they ride is because parking is limited in the TMC and their companies subsidize the parking and Qcards.

 

That's not a total knock on our light rail. It is popular as a park and ride for upper middle class riders from the med center. Which is to say people like their cars but hate expensive parking. A HSR station in the NW mall parking lot makes a lot of sense from a business perspective.

 

Ridership is inflated because people are using the line?

 

We should eliminate the numbers because too many people are using a particular segment of the line?

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Ridership is inflated because people are using the line?

 

We should eliminate the numbers because too many people are using a particular segment of the line?

 

To a certain extent yes. The smithland riders commuted using their cars. They would have parked a lot closer in or near the front of their hospital if they could but they can't.

 

It's like in the old days of the Astrodome, where you would park your car and then one of those long golf carts would pick you up and give you a ride to the front entrance. It's not like they went there looking to ride the long golf cart. It's more like sorry there's no more parking up front, but don't worry we will give you a ride to the front...

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If you're talking about riders from the Smithlands station to the TMC, that's exactly my point. They ride for a station or two and get off. It's a park and ride. There are park and riders and homeless people on the light rail. Of course there are exceptions but that's the bulk.  If they could they would park in their respective hospital but they can't so they park in the surface lot across from smithlands and ride for a station or two.

 

I almost feel like ridership numbers for our light rail should eliminate the numbers from the smithlands station. That station must inflate numbers by the thousands. The only reason they ride is because parking is limited in the TMC and their companies subsidize the parking and Qcards.

 

That's not a total knock on our light rail. It is popular as a park and ride for upper middle class riders from the med center. Which is to say people like their cars but hate expensive parking. A HSR station in the NW mall parking lot makes a lot of sense from a business perspective.

 

No you are knocking on it. Just be honest in how you say it dude. Thats not how data or statistics work. You can't just cherry pick data just to help make you feel better. Anyone that gets on the lightrail at any point is part of the ridership numbers. No matter how they get to it they are still CHOOSING to use it.

 

Companies subsidizing it is a very smart move. Especially for Hospitals thats a no brainier! If they can say that they are pulling in people coming into their hosptial via other means then they can apply for variances in parking which will help to reduce the number of parking needed for a building which is saving them money. You have no idea how much of a waste of space and money parking is! From an architecture stand point its a huge burden on owners to waste almost 1/3, to sometimes in suburban areas 2/3rds, to parking (and in suburban areas you then have to add detention because of all the water runoff from parking). By diversifying transit options it not only helps save businesses money on the front end, but over the lifetime of a tenent in a building or owning a building the financial savings is huge. Instead of "x" amount of sqft of parking....that space can now go to more hospital beds, more retail, more office space, more residential which are more active spaces and more money bringers than lifeless wasteful parking. Why do you think so many surface parking lots are disappearing so quickly! If they had the opportunity to trade parking for something which would use the space better than they would do it at the drop of a hat! People also wonder why parking ordinances in this city are so oppressive and anti-owner and its because there are no options to apply a variance to reduce the amount of parking needed. More buses, more bike lanes, more rail means more options more choice and more flexibility. It not only makes logical sense, it also makes economic sense.

 

EDIT: One more thing. You can't seriously look at me with a straight face and tell me that that isn't something worth striving for! It behooves us as citizens in our city to think about how people get around who maybe don't want to drive, or can't, or its a financial burden to own a car. Having a car shouldn't be a prerequisite to living in the third/fourth largest city in the country. A car should be something you WANT to have not NEED to have. I'm sorry that some business person doens't feel the need to walk amongst us peasants or plebs, but that doesn't give the excuse that most people are ok with walking or riding next to others just like them.

Edited by Luminare
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To a certain extent yes. The smithland riders commuted using their cars. They would have parked a lot closer in or near the front of their hospital if they could but they can't.

 

It's like in the old days of the Astrodome, where you would park your car and then one of those long golf carts would pick you up and give you a ride to the front entrance. It's not like they went there looking to ride the long golf cart. It's more like sorry there's no more parking up front, but don't worry we will give you a ride to the front...

 

I'm sorry, but that's absurd. That's like saying we shouldn't count pedestrian traffic on the train, because they wouldn't have taken the train if work weren't so far away. It's like saying we shouldn't over inflate auto traffic counts, because people walk from their cars to their desks, so really, they walked to work.

 

Each one of these examples involves a mode shift because of reduced accessibility in the other mode. Adapting mode usage to maximize accessibility and usability is the very essence of modern transportation.

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Perhaps true for cities with a heavy rail option. Houston has no heavy rail, so I'm not sure that argument furthers our discussion. In Houston our light rail caters mostly to homeless people and people who park their car near a station and ride for a station or two to their final destination. In Houston commuter busses are very popular. The park and ride system works well. Perhaps that's what the HSR station in Houston will be like?

And It's ASLO my experience that business travelers prefer taxi's and Uber, which is to say they prefer cars once they get off the train or plane.

I mean, that's sorta exactly what a park & ride system is for buses. But, over sweeping generalization thy name is 102IAHexpress!

I hate that this has turned into the Purple/Green line thread but since there's been no info as of late I understand.

Edited by BigFootsSocks
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Anyone that gets on the lightrail at any point is part of the ridership numbers. No matter how they get to it they are still CHOOSING to use it.

 

 

 

That's a false assumption. There are thousands of BUS riders who are forced to use the light rail. They chose to start there mode of transportation on a different mode but are then forced to transfer to something else.

 

If it makes you feel better knowing the ridership numbers are high because of the busses that feed it and the park and riders who can't find parking, well I hope that gives you comfort. But luckily the investors of this HSR care more about profit than a warm happy feeling. They will make wise business decisions because that's the obligation they owe their investors, contrast that versus putting a light rail or bus line where policy makers deem it more popular or HAIFers for that matter.

Edited by 102IAHexpress
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EDIT: One more thing. You can't seriously look at me with a straight face and tell me that that isn't something worth striving for! It behooves us as citizens in our city to think about how people get around who maybe don't want to drive, or can't, or its a financial burden to own a car. Having a car shouldn't be a prerequisite to living in the third/fourth largest city in the country. A car should be something you WANT to have not NEED to have. I'm sorry that some business person doens't feel the need to walk amongst us peasants or plebs, but that doesn't give the excuse that most people are ok with walking or riding next to others just like them.

 

Well then you should practice what you preach. The problem is you and most everyone else in this sub forum is caught up on trains.  I also want to strive for better public transportation for my city, but where we differ is that you only see rail. Just admit it you hate busses.

 

I think ross posted earlier about the station having bus access and Vic called him negative. Seriously? A great bus system is also worth striving for..

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That's a false assumption. There are thousands of BUS riders who are forced to use the light rail. They chose to start there mode of transportation on a different mode but are then forced to transfer to something else.

 

If it makes you feel better knowing the ridership numbers are high because of the busses that feed it and the park and riders who can't find parking, well I hope that gives you comfort. But luckily the investors of this HSR care more about profit than a warm happy feeling. They will make wise business decisions because that's the obligation they owe their investors, contrast that versus putting a light rail or bus line where policy makers deem it more popular or HAIFers for that matter.

 

By that very definition. I'm forced to take my car into work because there is no other "mode" of transportation and you are "forced" to say that very sentence on the internet because you're unable to say it in person since the internet is essentially a vehicle to transport words from one to another.

 

Yeah you're right it does make me feel good using the full amount of data that can possibly go into my argument and getting a full picture of what is actually going on rather than hide behind a small cherry picked amount of data because thats what is needed to hold up a very flimsy argument.

 

I'm also very happy that you aren't making a $10 billion dollar business decision :) To be an innovator means that you transcend just thinking about money because money only takes you so far and most of the time it keeps you thinking short term because its something that can be easily gained or lost quickly. Making an investment is something you do for a long term and thats what a type of industry they are about to get into is. For example, I just made a huge investment by going into grad school. Fiscally speaking.....pretty dumb considering it will put me in more debt (not as much in Germany as it would if I went to a school here in the US), and the amount of money for an education is ridiculous and if you told most teenagers starting college about the amount of money they would be in debt without telling the benefits.....no one would go to college. I'm banking on making more money later by putting more money in now. You gotta spend money to make money and HSR is the same thing.

Edited by Luminare
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Well then you should practice what you preach. The problem is you and most everyone else in this sub forum is caught up on trains.  I also want to strive for better public transportation for my city, but where we differ is that you only see rail. Just admit it you hate busses.

 

I think ross posted earlier about the station having bus access and Vic called him negative. Seriously? A great bus system is also worth striving for..

 

Ha. Joke is on you. I give you.......exactly what I think about our Bus System which now with its reimagining...is quite good. I love you how you are like.....uh uh uh I'm for public transportation as well! Thats cute.

 

http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/topic/30292-metro-draft-reimagined-network-plan/page-2

 

Please read up.

 

I guess I will have to tell you that I plan on taking the bus into downtown with my brother who just moved into the Heights when I go to the Astros game on Sunday. Maybe I will see you when you roll up to one of the many fine surface parking lots when I get there *tips hat*

Edited by Luminare
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If you're talking about riders from the Smithlands station to the TMC, that's exactly my point. They ride for a station or two and get off. It's a park and ride. There are park and riders and homeless people on the light rail. Of course there are exceptions but that's the bulk.  If they could they would park in their respective hospital but they can't so they park in the surface lot across from smithlands and ride for a station or two.

 

I almost feel like ridership numbers for our light rail should eliminate the numbers from the smithlands station. That station must inflate numbers by the thousands. The only reason they ride is because parking is limited in the TMC and their companies subsidize the parking and Qcards.

 

That's not a total knock on our light rail. It is popular as a park and ride for upper middle class riders from the med center. Which is to say people like their cars but hate expensive parking. A HSR station in the NW mall parking lot makes a lot of sense from a business perspective.

 

Saying that something should be disqualified from being counted because of subsidies, or lack of options is a horrible argument.

 

So all those people who park downtown that are subsidized by their companies to do so, they should be discounted. All those people who P&R due to subsidies, carpools, bikeshares, etc. anything that is subsidized, discount any numbers related to them.

 

You just can't do that.

 

Ignore all the ridership numbers in NYC, London, etc, because parking just isn't there, and people are encouraged to take public transit rather than pay a congestion fee, so they really aren't given an option. 

 

Imagine if Houston implemented a congestion fee!

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I'm also very happy that you aren't making a $10 billion dollar business decision :)

 

We live in a free market. If you want to raise billions of dollars and build a HSR then you can put the station wherever you want to.

 

The problem for your position is that the people who are putting their money where their mouths are and are looking at the data are coming to a different conclusion from you or anyone else who has no skin in the game. They are considering the Houston station outside of downtown. You may not like their possible conclusion but again it's their money.

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We live in a free market. If you want to raise billions of dollars and build a HSR then you can put the station wherever you want to.

 

The problem for your position is that the people who are putting their money where their mouths are and are looking at the data are coming to a different conclusion from you or anyone else who has no skin in the game. They are considering the Houston station outside of downtown. You may not like their possible conclusion but again it's their money.

 

so far as I know, they are still considering the Houston station inside of downtown. You may not like their possible conclusion, but again, it's their money.

 

I like comma more than you.

 

Anyway, more to the point, why is the assumption immediately that these people who are making 10 billion dollar decisions didn't first consult with the groups who they wish to share right of way with? We all (check that, you and others) assume that the people who run the current railway line up washington aren't going to agree to HSR sharing their ROW. 

 

I can just imagine their shock, when the Texas HSR just decided to publish that they were going to consider using that ROW without even talking to the owners first. that is a funny story.

Edited by samagon
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I hate that this has turned into the Purple/Green line thread but since there's been no info as of late I understand.

 

Some new info on the HSR would be great.  

 

And yes, i will admit that I have a strong dislike for buses.  Not that i don't see the utility of them, I just didn't get super excited about the "reimagined" routes because to me, and probably me only, it seems like Metro is patting themselves on the back and the satisfaction with their new plan will inhibit planning future rail projects. 

 

Just my two cents, not trying to spur an argument over buses, haha. 

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The problem is you and most everyone else in this sub forum is caught up on trains.  

 

I might be going crazy, so can anyone read the string of forums above and mind telling me what sub-forum this is for......yeah I do think this is a sub-forum for TRAINS!

Edited by Luminare
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From their webpage...

 

"How will I get around when I get to the station?"

 

From the stations, you will easily be able to rent a car, be picked-up by a family member, friend or colleague, hail a cab, or access public transportation such as the DART in Dallas or Houston's Metro. These convenient locations also mean that you will be a short walk, Uber or taxi ride away from your final destination.

 

LOL notice how they remain silent on Houston's light rail.

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Some new info on the HSR would be great.  

 

And yes, i will admit that I have a strong dislike for buses.  Not that i don't see the utility of them, I just didn't get super excited about the "reimagined" routes because to me, and probably me only, it seems like Metro is patting themselves on the back and the satisfaction with their new plan will inhibit planning future rail projects. 

 

Just my two cents, not trying to spur an argument over buses, haha. 

 

I would honestly try them! I do think the next step is dedicated bus lanes in more places around the city, but it really is a major improvement! But back to TRAINS....because its a sub-forum on TRAINS! LOL

From their webpage...

 

"How will I get around when I get to the station?"

 

From the stations, you will easily be able to rent a car, be picked-up by a family member, friend or colleague, hail a cab, or access public transportation such as the DART in Dallas or Houston's Metro. These convenient locations also mean that you will be a short walk, Uber or taxi ride away from your final destination.

 

LOL notice how they remain silent on Houston's light rail.

 

Our light rail doesn't have its own name....its all under Metro. Are you a real person?

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Source?

 

Sorry, when I said so far as I know, what I meant was: This is what I've heard. Additionally, I've read this over a year ago, so it is possible that since I have read/heard this information that it may have changed.

 

It was just a lot shorter to write 'so far as I know'.

 

do you have a source that says that they are no longer considering a downtown Houston site? I would be happy to be provided with updated information!

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Really? Have you never heard of METRORail?

 

METRORail Red?

METRORail Purple?

METRORail Green?

 

Do you even ride the rail?

 

You do know that DART is also their bus system? Do you even ride DART?

 

http://www.dart.org/schedules/schedules.asp?zeon=bus

 

Look I even provided a source!

 

EDIT: It literally says DART Buses, DART Rail, and Trinity Express! There you go....you don't even need to click!

Edited by Luminare
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