Texas Central Project

[UtterlyUrban]

Obviously not, but the person I was referring to was a rural farmer or land owner far outside the main cities.

I think people using their constitutional rights to protect their interest in the Real Estate or other property that they have duly worked to pay for in order to defend themselves against threats, real or perceived, is absolutely legitimate. An individual's right to do so is both a pillar of democracy and an underpinning of our constitution.

Here is my prediction: as soon as the route is announced, lawsuits will fly. Environmental suits. Takings. Nuisance. It is unclear to me how this private company will be able to eminent domain the land. Perhaps there is a way in Texas as railroads do have some special status. But, If they can't, it will be a challenge.

And, even if they can, it will only take a few well funded landowners or environmental groups with deep pockets to litigate and hold the project up indefinitely. Like it or not, the individual's right to sue for redress, is a foundation of our democracy.

Edited November 4, 2014 by UtterlyUrban

[Sky-guy]

Hello all,

 

I am late getting in to this discussion.  I am wondering if anyone here as a more detailed map of the proposed BNSF-1 route specifically in Grimes county around the Singleton, TX area.   All I can find are high level maps.  I need to drill down and see if property I own in that area will be affected.   Any links or assistance would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Mark

Hey Mark!

Welcome to HAIF. As of right now, this is the most detailed map:

 

 

http://media.culturemap.com/crop/b4/5a/600x450/Houston-Dallas-bullet-train-routes-under-evaluation_123304.jpg

 

Of course, we will later have maps with greater detail, as the project progresses.

[BigFootsSocks]

I think people using their constitutional rights to protect their interest in the Real Estate or other property that they have duly worked to pay for in order to defend themselves against threats, real or perceived, is absolutely legitimate. An individual's right to do so is both a pillar of democracy and an underpinning of our constitution.

Here is my prediction: as soon as the route is announced, lawsuits will fly. Environmental suits. Takings. Nuisance. It is unclear to me how this private company will be able to eminent domain the land. Perhaps there is a way in Texas as railroads do have some special status. But, If they can't, it will be a challenge.

And, even if they can, it will only take a few well funded landowners or environmental groups with deep pockets to litigate and hold the project up indefinitely. Like it or not, the individual's right to sue for redress, is a foundation of our democracy.

There's a difference between holding up a project like this because of personal opinions and holding it up based on actual knowledge of the project. Most people suing against this will be people who don't like the "big-city governments" encroaching into their rural paradise. Just because it's their current right to do so doesn't mean it isn't selfish or right.

Also an individual's right to sue is definitely not part of the foundation of democracy...lol. Lawyers, sure (if you're a Tocqueville reader) but suing someone over a project that will benefit the majority Texans because of government opinion issues is asinine and ignorant.

I don't see undereducated land owners in rural areas winning an injunction against a project like this when its backed by private money. Japan Central has a lot riding on this project and would love to see their products be adopted throughout the nation. They'll pay as much money as they need for the serious lawsuits to get rid of a few headaches and start a method of transportation untapped in this country.

Also, in what way is this project even remotely close to being a "threat, real or perceived?" It's a train, not a government loaded conspiracy missile from obumner to take away their guns. Its a train. It goes fast. It takes people from point A to point B....very fast. This is as much of a threat as the planes that fly over their heads unseen.

Edited November 4, 2014 by BigFootsSocks

[mkahanek]

Thank you.  I actually wrote DallasHoustonHSR yesterday and they responded that more detailed county by county maps will be posted on their website by mid week.   So hopefully that will give me a more zoomed in view I am looking for.

 

Hey Mark!

Welcome to HAIF. As of right now, this is the most detailed map:

 

 

http://media.culturemap.com/crop/b4/5a/600x450/Houston-Dallas-bullet-train-routes-under-evaluation_123304.jpg

 

Of course, we will later have maps with greater detail, as the project progresses.

 

[DNAguy]

Thank you.  I actually wrote DallasHoustonHSR yesterday and they responded that more detailed county by county maps will be posted on their website by mid week.   So hopefully that will give me a more zoomed in view I am looking for.

 

Because most of us here are 'city folk' and have no land in the country, I'd be curious if you'd give us some of your concerns as a rural land owner.

 

Would having a high speed train through your property be a major inconvenience? What kind of concessions would you accept if it indeed had to go through your property? 

[Luminare]

http://blog.chron.com/thehighwayman/2014/11/bullet-train-a-hit-with-city-council-but-with-concerns/

 

TCR CEO takes a serious look at implications of taking the train to downtown. Most likely will go along Washington Ave corridor which means that the post office site is well in play.

 

He is also sees Galveston as a future destination.

 

Of course he is already probably getting hate mail from the Washington Ave area about the train. Now is the time they create a stellar PR department and also get boots on the ground to go to each of these areas to layout exactly what will be done as to dispel myths that people might have about this.

 

The article also finally discloses possibly areas where the rail will get investment. It's possible that they will get investment from abroad particularly from Japan. It also gives further details in terms of possible job creation, construction, and train assembly.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Luminare

[cloud713]

Wow.. **** NIMBYs. I'm going to be pissed if the train doesn't make it into downtown due to a few Washington ave residents.

On the other hand, it's awesome Eckels sees the potential in extending the line to Galveston one day..

Oh, and the Hardy Yards are still in play as well too with a Washington Ave line..

Edited November 7, 2014 by cloud713

[ricco67]

I haven't been following this too closely, but I'm assuming that this will be rail and not some sort of meglev system?

if that is the case, I think that trying to get this to downtown is a doomed effort.

[BigFootsSocks]

The comments on that article...lol

Also, "grave impact on the rural landscape of 290"

How is there any impact other than train flying past the vast open spaces of nothingness a grave impact?

Washington Ave people better be prepared for this, if it goes in downtown, everyone benefits.

[ricco67]

my problem is that if starts relying on regular track ROW for getting to downtown, it isn't going to happen. The rails are simply too crowned.

[cloud713]

Washington Ave people better be prepared for this, if it goes in downtown, everyone benefits.

This. Please don't let the Washington Ave residents become the next Afton Oaks-esque rail opposition. Like I said, there were already two rail lines going along the Washington corridor.. It's not like they are putting a rail line in place where there wasn't one before. If they didn't like hearing trains/having negatively effected property values they should of never moved next to an active rail corridor...

[cloud713]

my problem is that if starts relying on regular track ROW for getting to downtown, it isn't going to happen. The rails are simply too crowned.

They mentioned something about elevating it along that corridor, so it would be a purpose built HSR line on its own set of tracks.

[Montrose1100]

my problem is that if starts relying on regular track ROW for getting to downtown, it isn't going to happen. The rails are simply too crowned.

The article mentioned it would be elevated. Imagine those views approaching the Downtown station. 

[Luminare]

This. Please don't let the Washington Ave residents become the next Afton Oaks-esque rail opposition. Like I said, there were already two rail lines going along the Washington corridor.. It's not like they are putting a rail line in place where there wasn't one before. If they didn't like hearing trains/having negatively effected property values they should of never moved next to an active rail corridor...

 

There is also plenty of room for more rail along that corridor!

 

His sights on Galveston is especially telling because in order to set that up it absolutely needs to go through town. Mean if not now at some point it will go into and through downtown. This also what I said earlier. A private company focuses on future markets and that helps fuel where the line will go.

 

You know who we need as an investor in this. Someone of the caliber like Elon Musk.

 

I do agree on the Chron.com comments lol. Those were a complete joke.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Luminare

[Sparrow]

They already live next to an existing rail line. There's an argument, but not really a great argument to be had.

 

What I would do if I were TCR is get all the facts out there to beat the naysayers to the punch. We're going to install noise and vibration dampeners. We're going to use a geometry that directs noise and wind skyward. We're going to plant flowering ivy along the entire elevated stretch. We're going to install noise walls under the elevated structure to reduce the noise of the existing rail line--and plant ivy along those new walls, except at areas the community deems appropriate for murals--we're going to commission art work for the community there. Make the new elevated rail line over the existing rail line to be a visual improvement to the community.  

 

Even go one better. Build a sample section or two near Heights Boulevard or TC Jester to show the community what the final build out will look like. It's one thing to tell people or show them in pictures. Go one step further and show them every single day. They'll be begging to get the new ivy and flowers and public art.

[cloud713]

There is also plenty of room for more rail along that corridor!

I do agree on the Chron.com comments lol. Those were a complete joke.

Why can't they trench the line like the Super neighborhood 22s proposal for commuter rail along that corridor. Wouldnt that be much quieter and less unsightly than elevated tracks? I'm fine with either one.. Montrose made a good point about how awesome those views would be from the elevated.

And yeah. Lmao, those people commenting on the chron are idiots.

[fkp5]

Great news. I'm glad to see that downtown is still an option. In my opinion, this line has to get downtown to be successful. Otherwise, there wouldn't really be much of an advantage to flying. I think downtown would attract more people from Dallas than a Northwest Mall location would.

[Sparrow]

Why can't they trench the line like the Super neighborhood 22s proposal for commuter rail along that corridor. Wouldnt that be much quieter and less unsightly than elevated tracks? I'm fine with either one.. Montrose made a good point about how awesome those views would be from the elevated.

And yeah. Lmao, those people commenting on the chron are idiots.

 

Surely there's not enough room to trench four rail lines along the corridor without taking property, perhaps in sections, but not along the full corridor. TCR needs their dedicated two, and there's no way the existing two lines are going away. Elevating the two new lines are the way to go to avoid having to use eminent domain.

[mollusk]

Perhaps there's a reason why it's an either - or, but it seems like using the BNSF routing until it crosses the utility ROW in Grimes County could also be an option.

[BigFootsSocks]

The rail lines that go along the Washington corridor are a "no noise" segment correct? As in, trains can't use their horns or anything loud. I would assume the same would be said for the HSR, which I'm also assuming makes significantly less noise than a regular freight train.

The only concern is constructing the elevated portion above those lines which would require a lot of time and many wrong between those two significant lines.

[Sparrow]

Great news. I'm glad to see that downtown is still an option. In my opinion, this line has to get downtown to be successful. Otherwise, there wouldn't really be much of an advantage to flying. I think downtown would attract more people from Dallas than a Northwest Mall location would.

 

Best case scenario they would develop both stations, or really all three. Run the Dallas--Houston route from Dallas to whichever of the three proves most popular among riders and just run a local commuter route between the three Houston stations.

 

Many advantages with this scenario. Commuter rail for the 290 corridor. Three real estate opportunities for developers instead of just one. Reaching Uptown and Downtown with ease means more potential riders. By stopping at the farthest out station first, TCR could claim reduced time of service between Dallas and Houston.

 

Let's be real here, the cost of an additional station pales in comparison to the potential profit to be had were no station to be built on that property in the first place. I could envision a developer approaching TCR and saying, look, here's all this land I own, you can use this part of it for zero cost to build a station, and I'll even chip in for you a part of the profits for the surrounding development.

[ADCS]

Why can't they trench the line like the Super neighborhood 22s proposal for commuter rail along that corridor. Wouldnt that be much quieter and less unsightly than elevated tracks? I'm fine with either one.. Montrose made a good point about how awesome those views would be from the elevated.

And yeah. Lmao, those people commenting on the chron are idiots.

Trenching would disrupt the UP and BNSF operations on their trackage there more than elevation would. They would likely not agree to this.

[Houston19514]

The rail lines that go along the Washington corridor are a "no noise" segment correct? As in, trains can't use their horns or anything loud. I would assume the same would be said for the HSR, which I'm also assuming makes significantly less noise than a regular freight train.

The only concern is constructing the elevated portion above those lines which would require a lot of time and many wrong between those two significant lines.

 

HSR will essentially be "no noise" anyway.  Railroad noise that is eliminated by the "no noise" segments is only the whistles being blown at crossings.  HSR will have no crossings, so there will be no whistle-blowing, regardless of the neighborhood.

[Sparrow]

If you have questions about the noise of these things you should go to YouTube and search Shinkansen. There's some great ones on there of the trains passing through stations.

[ADCS]

Best case scenario they would develop both stations, or really all three. Run the Dallas--Houston route from Dallas to whichever of the three proves most popular among riders and just run a local commuter route between the three Houston stations.

 

Many advantages with this scenario. Commuter rail for the 290 corridor. Three real estate opportunities for developers instead of just one. Reaching Uptown and Downtown with ease means more potential riders. By stopping at the farthest out station first, TCR could claim reduced time of service between Dallas and Houston.

 

Let's be real here, the cost of an additional station pales in comparison to the potential profit to be had were no station to be built on that property in the first place. I could envision a developer approaching TCR and saying, look, here's all this land I own, you can use this part of it for zero cost to build a station, and I'll even chip in for you a part of the profits for the surrounding development.

 

The company doesn't care about commuter rail; that's outside the scope of its goals. It would actually serve to make operating its line more difficult, since you'd have to triple or quadruple track the mileage shared with any commuter route, and you'd have to reduce speeds (from ~150 mph to 90 mph) to keep from disrupting passengers on the commuter platforms.

 

There is also history to consider; commuter rail has rarely been profitable, even 100 years ago. Given the population distribution disadvantages that Houston has compared to other US cities, I can't see why a company would want to take on a project that would almost certainly bleed cash from the start.

[Luminare]

Thought this was relevant to the overall discussion.

 

 

It's a great series of videos btw.

[DNAguy]

Surely there's not enough room to trench four rail lines along the corridor without taking property, perhaps in sections, but not along the full corridor. TCR needs their dedicated two, and there's no way the existing two lines are going away. Elevating the two new lines are the way to go to avoid having to use eminent domain.

 

 

Trenching would disrupt the UP and BNSF operations on their trackage there more than elevation would. They would likely not agree to this.

 

Both of these statements are incorrect.

 

With a trench and cap or partial cap, you can get your desired 4 tracks in the trench while having either light rail or roads as an overhang / cap on top.

 

The trenching would be down in stages and can be done w/ minimum effect to train operations.

 

The idea that the elevated section would be anything other than what the METRO is going to build for the LR in the 2nd ward is laughable. It will be done the cheapest way possible and look like the HOV section that goes from I10 to downtown. An elevated track here will be an eyesore for the community, further divide SN22, and suppress home values along the tracks even further.

 

Even if we were to trench, would the company bear the brunt of a trench and cap? No. It's too cost prohibitive. Literally might cost as much to trench this section as the whole other 200+ miles. TXDot, UP/BNSF, TCR, METRO, and the city will have to go in on this together..... which almost assuredly means that this will never happen. 

 

So b/c we want to do the elevated section on the cheap..... NIMBY's will rightfully fight the project...... So then the TCR will back away from this alignment.... and we get a station at Northwest mall.

[ADCS]

Please explain how trenching could be done without reducing the BNSF/UP line to single tracking for weeks, if not months.

[BigFootsSocks]

Yeahhhh that's a good point. Almost impossible on a segment as critical as that and the RR lobbies would just laugh at the suggestion.

Elevated tracks are almost the only way, however idk how that would really reduce home values. We don't have anything to compare it to unless someone wants to look at property values in Japan...

[Ross]

I don't see any real reason to have the HSR run all the way to Downtown. NW Mall is a good terminus. much like London doesn't have any rail stations in the middle. You can get from NW Mall to DT nearly as fast by other means as you could by taking the train, which would likely be restricted in speed. Terminating at NW Mall saves a bunch of money, and reduces the need to placate everyone within 10 blocks of the rail line.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Ross