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MaxConcrete

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Yeah cloud it's cool, I know he didn't mean to come across as a dick... :lol:

Yes that's what I meant I thought it was Gulf Coast Regional Rail Authority. Close enough.

Ok as for what Sparrow said, the whole argument for people on the edge of the city can be tackled by two points I've said multiple times already;

1) the whole point of this is so they DONT have to drive 8 hours round trip. You'll need to fill up on gas at least twice which will be comparable to a ticket on this. No one is saying 45 is going to be completely barren, this gives another option for the hundreds of thousands that commute back and forth each week

2) The Gulf Coast Rail District has stated as well as many other people working with Texas Central, that commuter rail is almost certain to go along with this.

As for the rest of your post, pretty much spot on!

 

Exactly. It's about alternative forms of transportation. It's simply about choice. Right now the choices are very limiting. Even flying to dallas you still have to have a car to get there! The other way is the 8hr back and forth. The flight, though 30mins is about 2-3hrs when you add the whole experience of getting onto a plane.

 

This shouldn't ever be looked at as the end all solution. It's simply an alternative.

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20141021_hsr_6396_houston_800.jpg

 

 

 

It's interesting that they indicated two place holders for Downtown Houston instead of just one circle. One desired location is most likely the post office site. Does the METRO site just north of the bayou seem to be the other?

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Aren't the HS Trains in Jaoan double ended? Good question. If it's going downtown I would assume so.

 

The N700-7000 series is double-ended. Here is a link that shows a typical 8-car set. Just scroll down about 3/4th of the way down and it will show you the set-up.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N700_Series_Shinkansen

Edited by urban909
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It's interesting that they indicated two place holders for Downtown Houston instead of just one circle. One desired location is most likely the post office site. Does the METRO site just north of the bayou seem to be the other?

 

The locations they are looking at I think are the Post Office site and Hardy Yards.

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The locations they are looking at I think are the Post Office site and Hardy Yards.

 

I was just thinking the METRO site because the BNSF option comes in on the map south of I-10. Not sure anyone had really considered such an option--you'd think such property would be easy to obtain or make use of jointly. I'm pretty sure there are plans to create a North Canal at that location at some point down the road--that would be an obvious obstacle. A pedestrian bridge to the Red Line at the UH-Downtown station wouldn't be that far fetched.  

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My experience in Japan and Europe has been that high-speed rail is double-ended. I think the only viable Dallas station is the one Downtown. I'd prefer a Downtown Houston station, as I don't think the project will be economically viable otherwise--business travelers are likely to be a key component of the rail segment. 

 

Of the two most viable alignments, the utility alignment seems preferable. Saving a few minutes here and there is essential to make rail appealing to those who would otherwise fly or drive.

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My experience in Japan and Europe has been that high-speed rail is double-ended. I think the only viable Dallas station is the one Downtown. I'd prefer a Downtown Houston station, as I don't think the project will be economically viable otherwise--business travelers are likely to be a key component of the rail segment. 

 

Of the two most viable alignments, the utility alignment seems preferable. Saving a few minutes here and there is essential to make rail appealing to those who would otherwise fly or drive.

 

Well that's the key aspect right? Connecting both major corporate centers. Hell it might even move even more headquarters from the burbs to downtown areas if the ease of getting to another city is that much quicker.

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Let's hope so.

 

While I know the idea feeds certain urban fantasies, the reality would be more traffic and congestion inside the loop and a longer commute from the more affordable areas for the rank-and-file employees.  Better the station be in the NW Mall area and let the employment centers be distributed outwards.

 

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Seems like a big missed opportunity not to reach both downtown areas

 

On the Houston end, a northwest station may be appealing to more affluent residents departing from the area, but would be less enticing to those coming from the other direction

 

On the Dallas end, arriving on the least populated southeast side would feel like stopping short - not much there and most destinations would require a fairly significant secondary trip

 

The density of downtown attractions on both ends would serve many without having to go further, and those that do would have more options

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I believe Willowbrook and Northwest Malls would be good options but I got more of a gut feeling if the station is on the northwest corner , it may be Willowbrook for two reasons , It sits on BNSF and it can be a connector to the Airport via Greenspoint/Cityview because of its close approximity to Bush I A H to the east on I-59/69 and Beltway 8 . UP's Davis Yard near Beltway 8 and Hardy Tollroad can be a good site for a station . One more option would be the Deerbrook area on I-59/69 in the northeast . 

 

Dallas , I mentioned earlier Love Field , other options would be Irving , SMU , Grand Praire , Frisco , Duncanville , Arlington , Texas Stadium , NAS JRB Dallas via Grand Praire ,  Ft. Worth , I-35 , I-20 or I-45 . 

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Jordan-Belfort-Quote-on-the-obstacle-fac

 

A summery of this entire thread lol. Apologies in advance if anyone is offended by the B word :P Also yes this man isn't a role model for any kind of acceptable standards, but this quote is pretty compelling.

Edited by Luminare
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Here is my explanation ,if you look at the map above , One of the marked HPSL's is Beltway 8 & 249 . That is Willowbrook . Willowbrook sits directly on BNSF just like Northwest sits directly on UP . They both have the potential of being stations . I live a few blocks from Northwest and 4 to 5 miles from Willowbrook . Willowbrook is 3 to 4 miles west of Bush IAH via Greenspoint and Beltway 8 which would make it a possible airport connector station. 

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Willowbrook is a community inwhich the mall is named after and is located .  An indication of that is the giant water storage tower that bears the Willowbrook name . BNSF runs directly through it aswell as 249 and Beltway 8 . The community itself fairly huge because of Texas A&M , UT , Baylor and Prairie View communities aswell as neighboring Tomball , Montgomery and Conroe Counties. The community encompasses both the mall , BNSF and the HPSL which is Beltway 8 & 249 .

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I'm not sure of the likelihood of a "Willowbrook area" station along 249 and the Beltway, but if the station were to be built there it sure would brighten up the economic outlook for the FM 1960 and Greenspoint submarkets.

 

There are vast political, economic, and social consequences riding upon the eventual planned station locations. More is at stake than solely the economic prospects of the HSR line itself. The HSR line station location, when decided upon many, many months from now, will be a game changer.

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Willowbrook is a community inwhich the mall is named after and is located . An indication of that is the giant water storage tower that bears the Willowbrook name . BNSF runs directly through it aswell as 249 and Beltway 8 . The community itself fairly huge because of Texas A&M , UT , Baylor and Prairie View communities aswell as neighboring Tomball , Montgomery and Conroe Counties. The community encompasses both the mall , BNSF and the HPSL which is Beltway 8 & 249 .

Huh, the more you know...had no idea about this lol. That clears up my confusion :lol:

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My 2 cents:

 

The Utility line is the best option.

 

The only good Dallas location is downtown.

 

For Houston, downtown option isn't and will be VERY expensive. The Northwest mall location is actually the best.... hear me out...

 

The Northwest mall location has these benefits:

1.) Relative easy access by car / freeway - off 610 + at 290 terminus + close to I10 which all just got upgrades

2.) Way less expensive than routing DT

3.) Large track re-developable land (northwest mall)

4.) In the true center of Houston - remember who will use this... more than likely business ppl

a) ~10 min cab ride to DT.

b.) <10 minutes to Galleria 

c.) ~10 minutes to Greenway

d.) < 20 minutes to Energy Corridor

e.) ~20 minutes to Westchase

f.) < 30 minutes from either airport

 

Galleria, greenway, and DT hotels will more than likely offer shuttles to the rail station.

 

Ok and here's the kicker: The station will force METRO to complete LR from the station to downtown AND the Galleria. In addition the station will also likely spur the addition of a commuter service along 290 (I believe this was mentioned in a previous post).

 

See Northwest mall location ideal.

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And I believe another station gets built out on the Grand Parkway @ 290 eventually (like 20-30 yrs) to advantage of the direct connection (along the tollway) of a built out Woodlands, Tomball, Cypress area, the sprawl that will happen btwn Katy and Cypress, and finally Katy.

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I'll agree that Northwest Mall makes tons more sense than the south Dallas locations put out as alternatives for up there.  It could even work as an interchange terminal, if Amtrak and METRO would play nicely.  And yes, it would be less of a nuisance to get from there to downtown and the Galleria area even by cab than it is getting to any business centers from Love or Hobby.

 

However, the incremental ROW into downtown from there isn't that difficult - the SP (now UP) tracks go directly there, as does the old MKT ROW that is now a bicycle trail once you wye off at the now only partially used Eureka Yard.  

 

I'm just saying don't write off either option out of hand  - both deserve a good, hard look.

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I'll agree that Northwest Mall makes tons more sense than the south Dallas locations put out as alternatives for up there.  It could even work as an interchange terminal, if Amtrak and METRO would play nicely.  And yes, it would be less of a nuisance to get from there to downtown and the Galleria area even by cab than it is getting to any business centers from Love or Hobby.

 

However, the incremental ROW into downtown from there isn't that difficult - the SP (now UP) tracks go directly there, as does the old MKT ROW that is now a bicycle trail once you wye off at the now only partially used Eureka Yard.  

 

I'm just saying don't write off either option out of hand  - both deserve a good, hard look.

 

If the train is brought into DT, the HSR and  UP tracks would have to be trenched.

 

I don't think you can fit 2 HSR and a freight rail line in the current ROW. In addition, there are security fences and monitoring that would also have to be added for the HSR. In addition, the streets that pass under the current tracks would need to be reconstructed (Yale and ....there's another one but I can't remember). That's a big project that can't be completed in the time frame they want. 

 

The only way you get it into DT costs a butt load of $$$$ (prob a billion at least). Something a private company isn't going to pay for when it only means an extra 7 miles.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for them to bring it DT. The trench would be a God send for the neighborhood if it gets capped. I remember a schematic from the SN22 organization that gives a good idea of what it could be.

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Don't get me wrong - Northwest Mall is a realistic proposal and can even be the ground zero for a major transit hub, linking park and ride, light rail, commuter rail for the whole northwest quadrant (eventually), and I dunno, flying cars or whatever.

 

The SP UP main line is double tracked from at least where it joins the 290 ROW all the way in.  I'm not a surveyor, and I don't play one on TV, but for much of the way through there it looks like there's room for at least one more track (if not two) without taking out much in the way of buildings - a lot of it is adjacent to small surface streets, and much that isn't is bordered by light industrial that's already on its way out.  I'm not sure that the cost delta is as big as you fear.

 

I'd love to see the whole UP mainline shootin' match trenched, too, but I don't foresee that happening.  BTW, the other underpass is Houston Avenue.

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If the train is brought into DT, the HSR and  UP tracks would have to be trenched.

 

Why trenched? I would think elevating the lines into downtown would be cheaper, faster to construct, and easier to operate. Could even build over existing tracks or another right of way.

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Why trenched? I would think elevating the lines into downtown would be cheaper, faster to construct, and easier to operate. Could even build over existing tracks or another right of way.

 

Elevated trains can be a tad noisy.

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So, I went to last nights Houston meeting.  I unfortunately didn't get to attend much of the open house before the short presentation and had to leave before the public statement time was over so I did not get to ask TCR as many questions as I wanted.  The meetings were strickly to go over and get input on the EIS, however there was some good information on how that works as well as possible stations.  I didn't take pictures of the visuals because almost everything was from the dallashoustonhsr.com site.

 

First off, I was somewhat disappointed to hear that currently there are no plans to have more than one station per city.  In other words the 3 Dallas stations and the different Houston stations based on route selection are simply alternitives.  This was dissapointing to me because it almost guarantees that there will not be a downtown station since the "last mile cost" and available land are considerations.  The one encouraging other side of this is that the connectivity to other forms of transit is a factor in the decision of where to place the stations so at the least there should be the ability to get to the downtown areas quickly and cheaply from whatever locations are chosen for stations.

 

Also, this was the first that I heard of an intermediate station. This was being discussed as a near certainty, and its location was in Ciro between B/CS and Huntsville.  As an Aggie, this is exciting because CS already has a pretty extensive bus system and I suspect that they would run a route that corresponded with the train schedule during most of the day.  This also opens up the use of this for a pretty strong commuter base in that area.

 

The major concern that came of the meeting was from land owners in the rural areas was this "cutting their property and/or roads in half" which is simply a vast overstatement, as this was a larger concern if the BANSF route was chosen.  It can take some of the land but I don't see how expanding an EXISTING ROW could possibly isolate a portion of someones property that is not already isolated.  Can anyone with this perspective help me out here?  Regaurdless it seems that TCR, TxDOT, and the FRA (the latter two are the ones actually doing the EIS and choosing the routes and possible locations apparently which surprised me) have a good system for inputting the concerns and desires of the public, but have been horrible in executing the information flow.  I, like most of you have been constatnly following this issue for years, but to most people the first they heard (if at all) of this being a real possibility was a little blurb on the chronicles website about the route finalist.  Even then I don't think it mentioned the meeting series. 

 

Anyone else go last night see anything different?

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