Houston Police Department Headquarters & Municipal Courthouse

[arche_757]

Come on internet police. NONE of this freaking incidents are downtown. I wouldn't be that big an idiot to assume that they would alter all 2 million miles of waterways in Houston so why would you expect them to alter all 2 million in san Antonio. We are talking about the river walk area in san Antonio and the bayou area of downtown Houston. We are talking about developing the bayou water front in Downtown so it should be Crystal clear we are talking about a specific area

You do not have to contradict everything everyone says dude.

San Antonio started on they're downtown flood mitigation plan in the 1940s. By then Houston was way bigger

 

What?  Internetpolice?

 

First - San Antonio started the River Walk in the 1910s/teens.  So imagine San Antonio if they hadn't actually planned this back in and around World War One?  Their downtown would probably be a shell of itself.  Possibly the city would be more along the lines of an El Paso in size now (minus CJ across the river).

 

Second - The San Antonio River is hardly clear.  Buffalo Bayou is a healthy color.  Muddy water doesn't equal poluted, the same that clear water doesn't mean the source is free from chemicals/pollution/disease.

 

Third - look at the Buffalo Bayou masterplan and you'll see there are plans (as visionary as they may be) to eventually incorporate some sort of "river walk" promenade in and around the bayou near Downtown.  We won't have restaurants and cafes on the water (not as close at least as San Antonio) but at least they will be along the bayou... should that plan ever reach full implementation.

 

Sixth - San Antonio in 1940 had 253,000 peopel while Houston had 384,000

(Just thought that people might want to know?)

Edited April 29, 2014 by arche_757

[HoustonIsHome]

What? Internetpolice?

First - San Antonio started the River Walk in the 1910s/teens. So imagine San Antonio if they hadn't actually planned this back in and around World War One? Their downtown would probably be a shell of itself. Possibly the city would be more along the lines of an El Paso in size now (minus CJ across the river).

Second - The San Antonio River is hardly clear. Buffalo Bayou is a healthy color. Muddy water doesn't equal poluted, the same that clear water doesn't mean the source is free from chemicals/pollution/disease.

Third - look at the Buffalo Bayou masterplan and you'll see there are plans (as visionary as they may be) to eventually incorporate some sort of "river walk" promenade in and around the bayou near Downtown. We won't have restaurants and cafes on the water (not as close at least as San Antonio) but at least they will be along the bayou... should that plan ever reach full implementation.

Sixth - San Antonio in 1940 had 253,000 peopel while Houston had 384,000

(Just thought that people might want to know?)

Joining the police crew?

1. Sorry but the flood that led to building the Olmos damn, which led to the creation of the River Walk, happened a full ten years after the date you gave

http://drtlibrary.wordpress.com/2010/09/24/san-antonio-flood-of-1921/

The work on the dam didn't start till years later and the plans fur the Riverwalk were not finalized until about 1930. The riverwalk as we know it didn't start to take shape until a decade later

2. I don't remember anyone talking about clear, dirty or polluted. That's a sidetrack.

3. Exactly!!!! We have ideas, San Antonio has action. Allison wasn't downtowns only flood. San Antonio had enough 80 years ago, why is it that after more than a decade we have hardly done anything to mitigate flood damage.

4 and 5. Where did these two go?

6. Thanks, that info shows what im saying. Smaller city, but they got that thing done

[HoustonIsHome]

LOL Is your head hurting again from all the thinking? ;-)

I am not going to waste time on this back and forth. Your internet research just to say gotcha came up short cause clearly I am talking about the Riverwalk diversion. Now if you have some link showing people getting washed away downtown I would gladly admit you got me.

But you dont have to fact check everyone. It derails the topic when we are talking about developing downtowns and you jump in with 'corrections that don't even fit in'

Shall we get back to discussions about relocating the HPD headquarters? I do not wish to continue discussing san Antonios suburban floods

[DNAguy]

Sounds like were on the same page! Those are my hopes as well, though I thought they wanted to make the post office site the HSR terminal. I guess time will tell. Aren't they supposed to come out with a plan soon for the HSR project? They said the rail line would be on a map within 90 days a few months ago...

 

You're right. Should be getting some info soon if this article is to be believed....

http://impactnews.com/houston-metro/the-woodlands/construction-on-houston-to-dallas-high-speed-rail-could-star/

[bachanon]

....please stay on topic folks  

[Houston19514]

I am not going to waste time on this back and forth. Your internet research just to say gotcha came up short cause clearly I am talking about the Riverwalk diversion. Now if you have some link showing people getting washed away downtown I would gladly admit you got me.

But you dont have to fact check everyone. It derails the topic when we are talking about developing downtowns and you jump in with 'corrections that don't even fit in'

Shall we get back to discussions about relocating the HPD headquarters? I do not wish to continue discussing san Antonios suburban floods

Consistently posting bad information derails the topics. If you meant to say San Antonio had fixed their DOWNTOWN flooding, then maybe that's what you should have typed.

San Antonio didn't get around to doing anything about their downtown flooding until more than 17 years after the last of six major floods. By comparison, Houston is pretty far ahead of the game (having done huge mitigation work after the last of only 3 major floods in 1935, whereas it took 6 floods to spur SA to action. Allison of course made it clear we needed more and in fact quite a lot of mitigattion work has in fact been done re: downtown flooding since Allison and with more work planned.)

Edited April 30, 2014 by Subdude

[HoustonIsHome]

You're right. Should be getting some info soon if this article is to be believed....

http://impactnews.com/houston-metro/the-woodlands/construction-on-houston-to-dallas-high-speed-rail-could-star/

That train looks sleek.

I know they were considering 290 and 45, but didn't know they were considering 59.

I guess both the Hardy site and the post office site would work for a station, but Hardy is right on the local rail system, while the Post Office site is actually downtown.

The intermodal station designs were beautiful. It would be awesome if we get something like that at either location, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Everthing seems to get watered down. Think about all the fancy ideas they had for the central station downtown, then decided they can't build it.

[Subdude]

The site is not an improvement. a necessity to continue the function of the current structures while the new ones are being built. Once they are completed, the old one's structure will have no function any longer. It has little to do with the post office site being more ideal for court / police functions, and moreso a matter of simple economics and timing. It seems like the city wants to keep the "justice center" as close to downtown as possible.

 

To me, the KBR site seems better, but may already be spoken for? a few blocks North or East of downtown are really the only other options...

 

I still think they should keep the current site instead of moving.  Surely it is within the realm of human expertise to devise a plan so that the court could continue functioning, perhaps in an interim location, while new building was constructed.  I guess if they were to move to the post office site then the Riesner Street locale would become the next big development opportunity.  

[Houston19514]

Agreed. I'd prefer they stay at the current location, leaving the post office site for more - exciting private development. I hope the private developers have exciting plans in mind, e.g. The Hines contest plans.

[Subdude]

This topic has been reported by a couple of posters.  Please keep things on topic and avoid personal remarks.

 

Thanks

 

[H-Town Man]

If Midway gets it - and it looks like they want it - then I don't think we'll have to worry about excitement.

[DNAguy]

That train looks sleek.

I know they were considering 290 and 45, but didn't know they were considering 59.

I guess both the Hardy site and the post office site would work for a station, but Hardy is right on the local rail system, while the Post Office site is actually downtown.

The intermodal station designs were beautiful. It would be awesome if we get something like that at either location, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Everthing seems to get watered down. Think about all the fancy ideas they had for the central station downtown, then decided they can't build it.

 

I think that either the current court location at Riesner, the post office, or hardy yards fits the specification that Eckels gave in this presentation:

[arche_757]

Joining the police crew?

1. Sorry but the flood that led to building the Olmos damn, which led to the creation of the River Walk, happened a full ten years after the date you gave

http://drtlibrary.wordpress.com/2010/09/24/san-antonio-flood-of-1921/

The work on the dam didn't start till years later and the plans fur the Riverwalk were not finalized until about 1930. The riverwalk as we know it didn't start to take shape until a decade later

2. I don't remember anyone talking about clear, dirty or polluted. That's a sidetrack.

3. Exactly!!!! We have ideas, San Antonio has action. Allison wasn't downtowns only flood. San Antonio had enough 80 years ago, why is it that after more than a decade we have hardly done anything to mitigate flood damage.

4 and 5. Where did these two go?

6. Thanks, that info shows what im saying. Smaller city, but they got that thing done

1) I did a project over urban areas including the Riverwalk about 10 years ago in college... I forgot the Riverwalk idea came about in the early 1920s and not the teens.  Oops.  I didn't bother looking that one up - though dates don't really matter - as the Riverwalk took a long time to realize.

 

2) You mentioned having clear water running down Buffalo Bayou?  Maybe I didn't read that sentence(s) correctly?  Perhaps.

3) We're implementing things now - sadly much of what is being done is slowly taking shape.  Slow like a crawl.

 

4 - 5) I didn't include them.  Don't like them.

 

6) Yep.  Just included that information.

 

Houston is doing so much right now to improve Buffalo Bayou... the idea that a large tract of land on the northern edge of Downtown is coming up for sale is interesting.  I've said it before - I'm not overly motivated by any particular proposal about this land (yet).  If HPD moves its HQ/auxiliary buildings/services there - so be it.  However, I would think we can come up with a better use of that land than selling it to the police.

[cloud713]

However, I would think we can come up with a better use of that land than selling it to the police.

I agree.. But hear me out. The post office site is pretty segregated from the rest of downtown, and has pretty crappy connections to the area highways. Not to mention an active freight line going through the site. Doesn't seem like a super prime area. What if HPD took over that site for it's operations, and relocated the county jail from the north side of the bayou/future island when they build the north canal, to the post office site? He'll, maybe they could renovate the post office building to be the jail. That would not only free up the current location in downtown for high rise development (I'm not 100% sure where in downtown it's located now), but free up the whole north shore of the bayou/the future island north of downtown for prime mixed use development, making the bayou much more attractive for development without being butted up next to a jail. Seems like a win win to me (only if they relocate the jail too. If it's just hpd moving then that's a waste of the post office site.

[H-Town Man]

I agree.. But hear me out. The post office site is pretty segregated from the rest of downtown, and has pretty crappy connections to the area highways. Not to mention an active freight line going through the site. Doesn't seem like a super prime area. What if HPD took over that site for it's operations, and relocated the county jail from the north side of the bayou/future island when they build the north canal, to the post office site? He'll, maybe they could renovate the post office building to be the jail. That would not only free up the current location in downtown for high rise development (I'm not 100% sure where in downtown it's located now), but free up the whole north shore of the bayou/the future island north of downtown for prime mixed use development, making the bayou much more attractive for development without being butted up next to a jail. Seems like a win win to me (only if they relocate the jail too. If it's just hpd moving then that's a waste of the post office site.

 

The post office is in a super-prime location for downtown development. Urban/downtown gurus have been talking about it for years. Visibility is incredible, and it's the only large parcel inside the freeway ring with that kind of visibility.

[jt16]

The post office is in a super-prime location for downtown development. Urban/downtown gurus have been talking about it for years. Visibility is incredible, and it's the only large parcel inside the freeway ring with that kind of visibility.

 

Not to mention, the bayou and park with George Bush statue are directly across the street.  Can you imagine how great it would be to finally make use of that bayou space there?  Right now it's a homeless colony in the middle of what could be a crown jewel for downtown.  I see opportunity to finally tie in that far north part of downtown with the rest of downtown, with the bayou park in between. 

[H-Town Man]

Not to mention, the bayou and park with George Bush statue are directly across the street.  Can you imagine how great it would be to finally make use of that bayou space there?  Right now it's a homeless colony in the middle of what could be a crown jewel for downtown.  I see opportunity to finally tie in that far north part of downtown with the rest of downtown, with the bayou park in between. 

 

No doubt any future leasing brochure will highlight the unimpeded views of the George Bush statue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just messin' with ya.

 

[jt16]

No doubt any future leasing brochure will highlight the unimpeded views of the George Bush statue.

Just messin' with ya.

I don't know what to call that park so I describe it.

[bobruss]

There's a very good editorial in the Houston Chronicle today lambasting the city for trying to buy the Post Office property instead of allowing developers to do what the city has been shelling out cash for. Building up the downtown residential community.

I'm glad they took a stand and I have found that the more people who respond to city hall and the mayors office about this site, it could sway their decision. Send your councilmen and mayor an email with your thoughts. It helps.

[Avossos]

There's a very good editorial in the Houston Chronicle today lambasting the city for trying to buy the Post Office property instead of allowing developers to do what the city has been shelling out cash for. Building up the downtown residential community.

I'm glad they took a stand and I have found that the more people who respond to city hall and the mayors office about this site, it could sway their decision. Send your councilmen and mayor an email with your thoughts. It helps.

 

I am going to send the opposite. I am for them using this site for Police Headquarters - because I believe they should be in the center of the city, and their current situation is deplorable. Sure, it would be nice to have residential there, but I am not being unrealistic expecting everything downtown HAS to be a residential unit. The site isn't as glorious as you may think.

 

That all being said, I am not opposed to using another site just North or just East of downtown.

[arche_757]

This is the site - right?

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=29.765514,-95.36342&spn=0.008885,0.010836&t=h&z=17

[cloud713]

The post office is in a super-prime location for downtown development. Urban/downtown gurus have been talking about it for years. Visibility is incredible, and it's the only large parcel inside the freeway ring with that kind of visibility.

Not to mention, the bayou and park with George Bush statue are directly across the street.  Can you imagine how great it would be to finally make use of that bayou space there?  Right now it's a homeless colony in the middle of what could be a crown jewel for downtown.  I see opportunity to finally tie in that far north part of downtown with the rest of downtown, with the bayou park in between. 

ill reply to both of these at once.. IMHO, the Post Office site is about as "bayou accessible" as UH-D.. which if you havent noticed, isnt very bayou accessible AT ALL. there are two major streets cutting the Post Office site off from bayou access to the south or east. not to mention all of this fantasy "bayou frontage" is elevated up to street level, with railing/no way down to the bayou. the only direct bayou access would be to the far west near Bagby, or to the far east at Washington/where the UH-D parking lot is.

about the only decent thing i see the Post Office site being used for is an intermodal station, but i would much rather that go at the Hardy Yards, so if they were to consolidate the HPD HQ and jails all to the PO site it would clear two prime properties, while only taking up one.

 

I am going to send the opposite. I am for them using this site for Police Headquarters - because I believe they should be in the center of the city, and their current situation is deplorable. Sure, it would be nice to have residential there, but I am not being unrealistic expecting everything downtown HAS to be a residential unit. The site isn't as glorious as you may think.

 

That all being said, I am not opposed to using another site just North or just East of downtown.

i agree. not just because of what you mentioned, but also the points i was making about it being disconnected from the bayou and the rest of downtown. they could possibly retrofit the post office warehouse into the new jail even, clearing the actual prime/bayou frontage property on what will soon be an island when they trench the north canal. San Jacinto runs right through that piece of land and the Heights/MKT bike trails do too, so it would have just as good, if not better access to downtown and MUCH better access to the bayou park system. not to mention the land actually fronts the bayou.

Edited May 2, 2014 by cloud713

[arche_757]

Stairs are cheap, and they've been done elsewhere along the Bayou recently.

[cloud713]

Yep, that's it..

This

Vs this..

You tell me which is the more prime property with better bayou frontage...

[arche_757]

Those jails aren't going any where.  If put to a vote - voters aren't going to approve spending $200 million on new jails given the age of the ones we have already.  Plus the buildings off Top St are private jails (I do believe).

 

Obviously the site at the "bend" is far better frontage - but its not up for sale - the post office is.

[cloud713]

Stairs are cheap, and they've been done elsewhere along the Bayou recently.

 

yeah but there is no bayou frontage land to speak of along/under most of Franklin, in front of the Post Office Site, so where are they going to all go? the little sketchy trail under the overpass? i even noticed while looking at the site on satellite view that the park next to Bagby that i said was the only Bayou access to the west doesnt even have bayou access until you go south of Preston, next to the Aquarium. its all elevated up above the bayou (and bayou trails) as well.

not to mention im sure the bayou is really inviting along the majority of that stretch with all of the surface streets crossing overhead.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2014 by cloud713

[Houston19514]

Just a reminder of some of the visions for the Post Office site:

 

http://www.udcompetition.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Team-1482.pdf

 

http://landscapearchitecturemagazine.org/2012/04/20/students-win-big-with-houston-plan/

[arche_757]

Franklin would likely be re-worked somehow - perhaps even removed.  Considering the scale of the work being talked about on here its easy to see a street changing quite a bit to accomodate something.  I mean we're talking about MOVING all the county jails+private jails+digging a canal between White Oak and Buffalo Bayou.  Versus removing 400' of street that's probably in bad shape anyway overhanging part of Buffalo Bayou... which one sounds easier to you.

[cloud713]

Those jails aren't going any where.  If put to a vote - voters aren't going to approve spending $200 million on new jails given the age of the ones we have already.  Plus the buildings off Top St are private jails (I do believe).

 

Obviously the site at the "bend" is far better frontage - but its not up for sale - the post office is.

yeah, im just saying if they were to move HPD HQ to the post office site, why couldnt they move the jail there too and consolidate both sites? like i said, they could possibly retrofit the post office building to be the new jail, so they dont have to spend money tearing it down and building a new one.

and good points. though they are already going to trench the north canal, wether development comes to that island or not. it will help keep downtown from flooding. 

i would be down for the Post Office mixed use development if they removed franklin entirely from 45 to Milam or Louisiana, and extended Washington Ave through the Post Office site instead, so they could develop along both sides of the street, with half of the property being TRUE bayou frontage.

[cloud713]

Just a reminder of some of the visions for the Post Office site:

 

http://www.udcompetition.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Team-1482.pdf

 

http://landscapearchitecturemagazine.org/2012/04/20/students-win-big-with-houston-plan/

believe me.. ive had my own visions for the Post Office Site too... i just think if theyre about to ruin it with HPD HQ then they might as well consolidate the jails from the island north of downtown so a new (even larger than the Post Office Site) mixed use district can be built, with true bayou frontage.

but eliminating that stretch of Franklin, opening up bayou frontage, and reconnecting Washington through the site would be the way to go IMO, now that Arche has mentioned it..

from L-R, the mid&high rises are apartments, office, hotel, and condos.

i redesigned the mid rise apartment building to fit in more with the rest of the complex. i also added the raised roof in the train station i was talking about doing for a grander feeling getting off the train/boarding the train in the main concourse and to allow more natural light into the building. the skybridge would lead from the new second level of the train station across the street to a parking garage east of the station/north of "Washington", before branching over the train tracks to UH-D to connect into the light rail system.

Edited May 2, 2014 by cloud713