Jump to content

Houston Police Department Headquarters & Municipal Courthouse


lockmat

Recommended Posts

lots of very important people in this town simply don't get it; they don't realize that the banks of Buffalo Bayou facing downtown Houston have a higher and better use than a police headquarters.

I like how in Paris and London how major tourist attractions are along the water: the gardens in paris, the louvre, tower of London, Westminster Palace, Hampton Court Palace, London Eye, Tower Bridge, Big Ben, Shakespeare Theater, Tate Galleries, Lambeth palace, Victoria gardens..... with other landmarks such as Buckingham Palace, Westminster Abbey, Kensington Palace,etc just blocks away
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The post office is a large site that has existing rail access and is within the freeway boundaries of DT. No LR stop but w/in a resonable walk from UH downtown stop. Development of the site can mitigate the 'walking problem. It's on the bayou too. That's good and bad. Good b/c it can be a transformative project / bad b/c of the same reason (people won't really except anything less).

The Hardy yards / Burnett TC has lots of vacant land and a LR stop. This, however, seems to be the choice of a high speed rail train station if that thing ever happens.

So there's a lot up in the air here.

Not to mention that we've got a huge problem with I45 affecting all these locations. It's redesign is also a crucial element no taken into consideration. Hell, I'd be surprised if the council members were even aware of all of TxDOT's potential plans for I45.

IMO, the best solution is to go by my plan and hold ppl to this:

A) Re-route 45 along I10 and 59 east of DT.

B.) Re-build 61 Riesner property w/ light rail ROW preserved w/in courts / police station footprint

C.) Privately develop the Post office

D.) Use Hardy yard site for the HSR station if that happens

That's my hope.

Sounds like were on the same page! Those are my hopes as well, though I thought they wanted to make the post office site the HSR terminal. I guess time will tell. Aren't they supposed to come out with a plan soon for the HSR project? They said the rail line would be on a map within 90 days a few months ago...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Uh...

I think the existing jail buildings were purpose built that way. Pretty sure.

Any one else want to chime in?

I don't know which building you think was formerly a dormitory. The 1200 Baker Street Jail was new construction, built to be a county jail. The San Jacinto annex was formerly a cold storage warehouse, converted by the county to be a jail. The 1307 Baker Street Jail was built as and has always been a jail. The Franklin Street jail was built by the county as a jail (it is no longer used as a jail).

As far as I know, the only dormitory UH/D ever had was the former hotel at Main and Commerce (where the Commerce building now stands). UH/D demolished that building and in the early 90s.

Calm down. I didn't say the jail wasn't built. I said I dunno if the stigma of the jail would allow sorms to be there. That is where I was Told the previous dorms were.

If you read my post I said the school couldn't afford a reno so went for new construction. I never said what the New owners of the site did with the building.

The historian may have mixed up buildings but sheesh don't get so twisted. He said the old Dorms used to be a hotel. Uhd owns lots of plots in the area. THEY also own that little pump on Willow street near the jail

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Calm down. I didn't say the jail wasn't built. I said I dunno if the stigma of the jail would allow sorms to be there. That is where I was Told the previous dorms were.

If you read my post I said the school couldn't afford a reno so went for new construction. I never said what the New owners of the site did with the building.

The historian may have mixed up buildings but sheesh don't get so twisted. He said the old Dorms used to be a hotel. Uhd owns lots of plots in the area. THEY also own that little pump on Willow street near the jail

No one is upset.  Just trying to figure things out.  Baker Street was purpose built.  Could have been other buildings there used as dorms, but I don't know?  South Texas JuCo was only 2,100 students?

 

Either way, the jails are there now.  Unfortunately!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one is upset. Just trying to figure things out. Baker Street was purpose built. Could have been other buildings there used as dorms, but I don't know? South Texas JuCo was only 2,100 students?

Either way, the jails are there now. Unfortunately!

What does purposely built have to do with anything? All buildings were purposely built, but that doesn't mean something wasn't there before.

Whats so difficult about accepting that a school may have owned the land before the county? Again if the historian is mistaken about the location of the dorms I don't know, but she seemed pretty certain that the school owned that lot

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I recall, the first dorms set up for UH-DT were in the building that was formerly the Travelodge Hotel at Main St. at the SE corner of its intersection with Buffalo Bayou.  Travelodge was a chain that I saw all over the western US in the 60s ... and had a sleepy bear in a sleeping gown as it's logo mascot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does purposely built have to do with anything? All buildings were purposely built, but that doesn't mean something wasn't there before.

Whats so difficult about accepting that a school may have owned the land before the county? Again if the historian is mistaken about the location of the dorms I don't know, but she seemed pretty certain that the school owned that lot

 

The school did not own the land before the county. The only dorm was as mentioned previously at the base of the Main Street Bridge. One of the jail buildings was indeed a cold storage place, and the announcement that it would become a jail mightily peeved the student body at UHD (I was going there at the time)

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think those of you who want the post office site to be privately developed and not the courthouse/police site are not really thinking big picture. One has absolutely superior accessibility and that's the police hq. I don't think that should be wasted. Move the courts wherever, but please don't leave them here

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The school did not own the land before the county. The only dorm was as mentioned previously at the base of the Main Street Bridge. One of the jail buildings was indeed a cold storage place, and the announcement that it would become a jail mightily peeved the student body at UHD (I was going there at the time)

Oh ok. I guess the historian was mistaken then

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't able to see all of the Chron article, but if the administrative HQ of HPD is moving, what will they do with the building in Downtown which is the HPD HQ? (That would be considered in addition to the courthouse/central police substation site northwest of Downtown)

 

Also I know UHD is set as a commuter school, but do you think UHD should lease from an existing building and establish dormitory facilities in it for a few students who may live far away (Someone in resident Hockley or Galveston)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't able to see all of the Chron article, but if the administrative HQ of HPD is moving, what will they do with the building in Downtown which is the HPD HQ? (That would be considered in addition to the courthouse/central police substation site northwest of Downtown)

 

 

They would sell the current HPD HQ building.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also I know UHD is set as a commuter school, but do you think UHD should lease from an existing building and establish dormitory facilities in it for a few students who may live far away (Someone in resident Hockley or Galveston)?

That's what I was hinting at before the discussion sidetracked. My question was would the stigma of it previously being a jail prevent students from wanting to stay there

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's what I was hinting at before the discussion sidetracked. My question was would the stigma of it previously being a jail prevent students from wanting to stay there

 

I see, so you were considering turning a current jail facility into UHD housing. They'd also have to move the headquarters of the county sheriff and a TDCJ state jail for men.

 

Anyway, I was thinking if there was an existing downtown building with space available, UHD would just rent space in that building and turn the area it leased into dormitories and/or family apartments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see, so you were considering turning a current jail facility into UHD housing. They'd also have to move the headquarters of the county sheriff and a TDCJ state jail for men.

Yeah, apart from the stigma, I would think it would be an easy conversion to dorms considering the spacing of plumbing and stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does purposely built have to do with anything? All buildings were purposely built, but that doesn't mean something wasn't there before.

Whats so difficult about accepting that a school may have owned the land before the county? Again if the historian is mistaken about the location of the dorms I don't know, but she seemed pretty certain that the school owned that lot

 

I never said the school didn't own the land.

 

Well, a purpose built jail is built just for the use of housing inmates.

 

Let's move on shall we?  You are making an argument out of nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think those of you who want the post office site to be privately developed and not the courthouse/police site are not really thinking big picture. One has absolutely superior accessibility and that's the police hq. I don't think that should be wasted. Move the courts wherever, but please don't leave them here

 

I don't understand.  Isn't accessibility a good thing for those functions?  I'm struggling to understand what is so suboptimal about the current Riesner Street location for the police/muni courts, or why the Post Office would be a better site for them.  

 

 

Actually as I said I don't want the Post Office site privately developed; I'd like to see it owned by the city.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually as I said I don't want the Post Office site privately developed; I'd like to see it owned by the city.

Any reason why?

I dunno, seems the city spends money but things still come out cheap looking.

I just think the location is a major asset and if something is put up it should engage the area. Scary thing would be the city throwing up a cheap looking building with a massive surface lot and the area remains pretty much the same looking

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't understand. Isn't accessibility a good thing for those functions? I'm struggling to understand what is so suboptimal about the current Riesner Street location for the police/muni courts, or why the Post Office would be a better site for them.

Actually as I said I don't want the Post Office site privately developed; I'd like to see it owned by the city.

I think direct light rail and easy road access will help developers invest more to the current court site. The post office is less optimal in my opinion ( location and train tracks). So my thought is that the city would invest to use this less optimal space and we would net better developments elsewhere. Kind of like what the city did with the permitting office - off the tracks and yet a well done spot that I doubt would have the same function without the city's input.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think its a shame that some of Houston's most historic and  unique landscapes are devoted to the housing of criminals and courthouses. The beauty of the area is totally lost to Houstonian's, so that our justice and penal system can operate. Surely there is a more suitable location for all of this to be carried on somewhere else. I mean what were they thinking when they decided to locate everything on the bayou. And not just on one side but both sides are now heavily influenced by the courts and housing of criminals.

Most of them are owned by the county and I think they could find somewhere farther west to create a new court and jails center. Since everyone likes to proclaim that the new center of Houston is somewhere west of the galleria lets move it out there. That way it would be more convenient for all of the citizens of west Harris county. Then we could repurpose all of that property along both sides of Buffalo and White Oak bayous downtown for residential, retail and recreational uses closer to the city center. It would also make it feasible to continue Buffalo bayou park east thru downtown to the larger tracts of land along the Bayou that could eventually become the foundation for future growth on the East side of downtown.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think its a shame that some of Houston's most historic and  unique landscapes are devoted to the housing of criminals and courthouses. The beauty of the area is totally lost to Houstonian's, so that our justice and penal system can operate. Surely there is a more suitable location for all of this to be carried on somewhere else. I mean what were they thinking when they decided to locate everything on the bayou. And not just on one side but both sides are now heavily influenced by the courts and housing of criminals.

 

Yes.  A very unfortunate thing all of our multiple millions of dollars courthouse and jail complexes are where they are.  Right next to the most interesting part of the city.  Who wants to put up a Ritz when the view 2 blocks away is of one of the largest (and most problematic) penal systems in the world?  Sad.

 

What were they thinking?  Nothing.  That land was probably dirt cheap because of the flood risk.

 

And there's a Federal Detention Center right across from Christ Church Cathedral!  Now, that church has been there much longer than the Fed center - a tragedy that they allowed such a blight to exist in such proximity to Houston's historic district.

Edited by arche_757
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My thing is this:

Houston is no stranger to flooding

It has been bigger than San Antonio for a while now

It was the capital of the republic

Why on earth did SA get their act together on flooding ages ago and we are still "looking into" ours?

Its seems for us we were all business, while SA integrates more aesthetic and recreational uses to their surroundings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes.  A very unfortunate thing all of our multiple millions of dollars courthouse and jail complexes are where they are.  Right next to the most interesting part of the city.  Who wants to put up a Ritz when the view 2 blocks away is of one of the largest (and most problematic) penal systems in the world?  Sad.

 

What were they thinking?  Nothing.  That land was probably dirt cheap because of the flood risk.

 

And there's a Federal Detention Center right across from Christ Church Cathedral!  Now, that church has been there much longer than the Fed center - a tragedy that they allowed such a blight to exist in such proximity to Houston's historic district.

 

What makes it sadder is that the plan to build the North Canal will mean that the resulting Little Alcatraz Island will be dominated by jails.  Buffalo Bayou could be such a fantastic asset if the city bothered to think about it.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

After seeing the back and forth between the various arguments, I'd have to say that I'm for the post office site.

reason being is that it's important to keep it easily accessible to everyone and just not those with a car.

why not just keep the current site? mostly because it is outdated and nearing the end of its useful life. I'd like to see it redone, but I think that it would be cost prohibitive if it is to be brought up to current standards.

would the post office or current site be ideal for development?

yes, but it wouldn't serve the interest of the citizens of Houston for the court and police system to relocate outside of the city.

As much as many users have complained so vehemently when ExxonMobil (and others) moving outside of the city center, I'm disappointed that many of you would be so hypocritical in moving so many jobs away from the very core you're trying to improve.

Edited by ricco67
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

why not just keep the current site? mostly because it is outdated and nearing the end of its useful life. I'd like to see it redone, but I think that it would be cost prohibitive if it is to be brought up to current standards.

 

The structures on the site may be outdated, but can they not be replaced if need be at the same location?  The site itself is fine.  I still can't see why the Post Office site is any improvement.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My thing is this:

Houston is no stranger to flooding

It has been bigger than San Antonio for a while now

It was the capital of the republic

Why on earth did SA get their act together on flooding ages ago and we are still "looking into" ours?

Its seems for us we were all business, while SA integrates more aesthetic and recreational uses to their surroundings.

 

San Antonio had all of their flooding problems solved ages ago?    That might come as news to a lot of San Antonio residents:

 

Three people swept away, killed in severe San Antonio flooding (May 26, 2013)

 

 

Edited by Houston19514
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The structures on the site may be outdated, but can they not be replaced if need be at the same location?  The site itself is fine.  I still can't see why the Post Office site is any improvement.  

 

The site is not an improvement. a necessity to continue the function of the current structures while the new ones are being built. Once they are completed, the old one's structure will have no function any longer. It has little to do with the post office site being more ideal for court / police functions, and moreso a matter of simple economics and timing. It seems like the city wants to keep the "justice center" as close to downtown as possible.

 

To me, the KBR site seems better, but may already be spoken for? a few blocks North or East of downtown are really the only other options...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But KBR Site is a beautiful location, right along the bayou.  Anyway...Cathexis owns it.  Doubt they would work with the city on that.

It does seem that wherever the location is, it should be prominent, accessible and attractive.  Someplace just north of downtown, with good views seems to fit the bill. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Come on internet police. NONE of this freaking incidents are downtown. I wouldn't be that big an idiot to assume that they would alter all 2 million miles of waterways in Houston so why would you expect them to alter all 2 million in san Antonio. We are talking about the river walk area in san Antonio and the bayou area of downtown Houston. We are talking about developing the bayou water front in Downtown so it should be Crystal clear we are talking about a specific area

You do not have to contradict everything everyone says dude.

San Antonio started on they're downtown flood mitigation plan in the 1940s. By then Houston was way bigger

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Come on internet police. NONE of this freaking incidents are downtown. I wouldn't be that big an idiot to assume that they would alter all 2 million miles of waterways in Houston so why would you expect them to alter all 2 million in san Antonio. We are talking about the river walk area in san Antonio and the bayou area of downtown Houston. We are talking about developing the bayou water front in Downtown so it should be Crystal clear we are talking about a specific area

You do not have to contradict everything everyone says dude.

San Antonio started on they're downtown flood mitigation plan in the 1940s. By then Houston was way bigger

 

LOL   Is your head hurting again from all the thinking?  ;-)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...