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Urbannizer

Camden Conte: 21-Stories x2 (2 Phases) - Downtown

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Keep in mind Camden is publicly traded. So even if he wants to move forward his stock holders and its price matter more.

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These rendering have been around since 2007:04:02 10:58:35  :ph34r: or atleast that was their last save.

 

 

Edit: Disregard the first rendering of the building was from that date, looks like this was their latest save.

Edited by TowerSpotter

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It's happening. It's likely just going to take as long to get out of the ground as Camden's superblock proposal. 

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They probably won't break ground until well after the Superblock apartments are leasing

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I'm not understanding what it is about this project so many are in awe of. This is a less impressive version of Catalyst. Orienting the tower along Bell reduces visual connection to Root Square for their second potential tower. If curves and large windows are the appeal, why only one corner? Seems like a wasted opportunity with their use of the roof--if nothing else increase the number of floors with the mid-rise section and add additional units. Sorry, but I'm not impressed.

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I would actually disagree - orienting the tower along Bell provides for those residents getting a park view, as well as providing privacy for the amenities deck from the public spaces of the park and Toyota Center.  Additionally, I like the garage entrance on Austin - it keeps entering and exiting traffic away from the park and the sidewalk path between the light rail and the Toyota Center.

Also, the curved windows are on the corner facing the bulk of the skyline - those are probably going to be the nicer/more expensive units.

 

It would be nice if the mid rise roof was more used - maybe expand the amenities deck to take up the whole roof, making it a straight wall with no set back.  Maybe they could have patios down there if they want to keep the set back?

Over all, it would be amazing to get this tower in SE downtown - right now that whole area is a dead zone

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I would actually disagree - orienting the tower along Bell provides for those residents getting a park view, as well as providing privacy for the amenities deck from the public spaces of the park and Toyota Center.  Additionally, I like the garage entrance on Austin - it keeps entering and exiting traffic away from the park and the sidewalk path between the light rail and the Toyota Center.

Also, the curved windows are on the corner facing the bulk of the skyline - those are probably going to be the nicer/more expensive units.

 

It would be nice if the mid rise roof was more used - maybe expand the amenities deck to take up the whole roof, making it a straight wall with no set back.  Maybe they could have patios down there if they want to keep the set back?

Over all, it would be amazing to get this tower in SE downtown - right now that whole area is a dead zone

 

Orienting the tower along LaBranch or Austin would allow for potential sightlines from their second tower to Root Square--not doing so is reducing the value of their own future project. Creating a patio area to go with the recreational deck in a reoriented building would allow for all of tower 1's residents to partake in the park view. Further, orienting along either north/south street would provide more of the desired sunrise and sunset views. 3300 Main does far better at providing a vast array of views in all directions--a simple standard rectangle is boring.

 

There is also a garage entrance facing Root Square along Bell. Removing this would indeed be positive for the reasons you mentioned.

 

If the curved windows will provide for higher rents, make more curved windows. Some folks may like views of Toyota Center and DG, put the curved windows to the east too. Since the skyline view is in high demand, maximize potential profit by creating an L-shaped building instead of a rectangle (even though that would block tower 2's park view).

 

Yes, this is better than a parking lot, but what isn't?

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I didn't notice that the Bell street garage entrance was still there - it might be OK if it's only a pickup/drop off spot, but parking garages tend to have drivers coming out going too fast, especially for a pedestrian oriented sidewalk like one across from a park.

 

I do wonder why they didn't make curves on both ends - it would make it symmetric more than anything.  I prefer the tower along the park, but that is a more personal taste than a right or wrong thing.  I like both this and the Market Square Tower, where it's more aligned to the park like you're suggesting

 

I really just want this tower built so the area has some life outside of basketball games

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I noticed that they took care to include the abandoned Days Inn, but not 2nd Sky House 

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Camden Property Trust to Hold Off on Proposed Downtown Towers

 

Camden Property Trust will not be breaking ground on its proposed downtown apartment project in 2016.

 

Ric Campo, Camden’s chairman and CEO, broke the news to a crowd of industry professionals at the Houston Apartment Association’s annual State of the Industry breakfast on Jan. 26.

 

“We’re committed to downtown,” Campo said. “But we’re not immune to job losses.”

 

“We very much plan to develop this site,” Campo said. “The question is when.”

 

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http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2017/02/09/camden-mulls-timeline-for-downtown-houston.html

 

Camden Property Trust may not be breaking ground on its proposed downtown apartment project until at least 2020, company officials said.



 

The Houston-based multifamily developer (NYSE: CPT) remains bullish on downtown Houston, said Ric Campo, Camden’s chairman and CEO. However, the influx of 3,000 new apartment units downtown — coupled with the oil slump and high construction costs — is keeping Camden’s highly anticipated downtown plans at bay, for now.

 

“It's just a waiting game. Houston is a great city long term,” Campo told analysts during his company’s quarterly earnings call Feb. 8. “We’ll build that building at some point. ... Maybe we’ll have a window of opportunity to start building sometime in 2020 or 2021. We’ll watch it. (But) we are not compelled to do anything in this market until we see some moderation in construction prices.”

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Urbannizer said:

Idk what to say. This guy is a coward. He pushes everyone else to build build build, but when it comes to him he remains "bullish on downtown!" How in the )(&()$*&$(*@ do you remain bullish about downtown and not make a move! Makes ZERO sense!!! Then he has the nerve to say "at some point." I hope at some point he steps down from his position and allows someone who actually believes in this city to move forward. 

Edited by j_cuevas713
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Isn't there a time limit on the downtown living incentives?  Doesn't he need to break ground to keep them, or does he get to keep sitting there on his ugly parking lots for years and then get a tax credit any time he wants to build?

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4 minutes ago, swtsig said:

 

not to sound like an asshole or anything but you're a moron if you think Campo is sitting there calling all the shots. this is a publicly traded company with a board of directors and millions of shareholders. they have institutional partners, strong financing relationships and a slew of analysts examining every square inch of the market under a microscope. if i were him (or them as it were) i would take the EXACT SAME approach.

 

Camden doesn't exist as a charity to internet board members who simply want something nice to look at as they drive by on the freeway... it exists to make money. is Camden more conservative then most? no doubt. but they're not stupid. your rant OTOH.....

Then I guess we're all wasting our time caring then if that's the case. We're all wasting our time wanting great development as well. Whether we know the in's and out's is really irrelevant, because even if Campo isn't calling all the shots, something is seriously wrong with being able to pull the trigger on projects. And trust me I'm far from a moron when it comes to publicly traded companies. There is clearly a track record with not being able to finish projects as expected and not having enough reason to start a new one. Yet investor after investor is deciding to move forward regardless. There were no assumptions with my previous statements, those are plain facts.

Edited by j_cuevas713

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12 minutes ago, swtsig said:

 

not to sound like an asshole or anything but you're a moron if you think Campo is sitting there calling all the shots. this is a publicly traded company with a board of directors and millions of shareholders. they have institutional partners, strong financing relationships and a slew of analysts examining every square inch of the market under a microscope. if i were him (or them as it were) i would take the EXACT SAME approach.

 

Camden doesn't exist as a charity to internet board members who simply want something nice to look at as they drive by on the freeway... it exists to make money. is Camden more conservative then most? no doubt. but they're not stupid. your rant OTOH.....

This ^^ Everyone who is giving Campo grief needs to understand this is a debt market that has dried up.  A few players have gotten financing in the past 24 months, but most have not.  The institutional money and debt will flow back into this town, it will just take time. Chill out.

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Plus, anyone that can open Houston Biz Journals or Houston Chronicle can read that supply is outstripping demand right now. Doesn't take any insiders here to see that. They're looking at that data and they're telling each other it doesn't make sense to go ahead with this project at the moment... seems fair enough.

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I never said it would be smart to start this project with the way the econony is. Hell, I'd hold off too. My point is when he had plenty of time to decide and the market was strong what was holding him back then??? We all gave him grief then. So yeah the economy will pick up and things will get better, and the money will start flowing again. But from what they've shown, the state of the economy doesn't matter. We have developers still building in this city regardless. "At some point" doesn't sound encouraging and a push out date of 4 years from now doesn't either. That's all I'm saying.

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2 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

I never said it would be smart to start this project with the way the econony is. Hell, I'd hold off too. My point is when he had plenty of time to decide and the market was strong what was holding him back then??? We all gave him grief then. So yeah the economy will pick up and things will get better, and the money will start flowing again. But from what they've shown, the state of the economy doesn't matter. We have developers still building in this city regardless. "At some point" doesn't sound encouraging and a push out date of 4 years from now doesn't either. That's all I'm saying.

Uhhhh...pretty sure a large amount of forclused homes/condos/offices and brankrupt businesses from the 2007-2008 recession state otherwise..

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19 minutes ago, Ctaf said:

does anyone know about the incentives? do those expire?

 

The Downtown District has the right to cancel the incentives if:

1) the owner has not submitted construction plans within one year of project approval

OR

2) project has not received certificate of occupancy within 3 years of project approval

 

Page A-5 of the below:

https://www.houstontx.gov/ecodev/380/houstondowntown.pdf

 

This is the reason a lot of people are upset with the project. The project used ~550 of the 5,000 approved units under the incentives (>10%) and may never use the incentives or begin construction. These incentives could have been put to much better use.

 

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Camden should have never been approved for both buildings since they were not going to ever be built at the same time. Giving them units in one tower would not have been objectionable. 

 

550 units is a ton. It's easily two midrise projects or even a midrise and a high-rise. 

 

Oh well, considering no residential was built downtown for almost 4 decades I won't complain too much. 

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10 hours ago, downtownian said:

 

The Downtown District has the right to cancel the incentives if:

1) the owner has not submitted construction plans within one year of project approval

OR

2) project has not received certificate of occupancy within 3 years of project approval

 

Page A-5 of the below:

https://www.houstontx.gov/ecodev/380/houstondowntown.pdf

 

This is the reason a lot of people are upset with the project. The project used ~550 of the 5,000 approved units under the incentives (>10%) and may never use the incentives or begin construction. These incentives could have been put to much better use.

 

True, but this really doesn't bother me considering this was to jump start residential living in downtown.  Now in a few years we will have a couple thousand residents living in the CBD, and new businesses catering to those residents.  Then multi-family developers will build without incentives, which is the way it should be.  Plus, it helps assure more quality development rather than some B player that wants to take advantage of a generous tax credit.

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1 minute ago, CREguy13 said:

True, but this really doesn't bother me considering this was to jump start residential living in downtown.  Now in a few years we will have a couple thousand residents living in the CBD, and new businesses catering to those residents.  Then multi-family developers will build without incentives, which is the way it should be.  Plus, it helps assure more quality development rather than some B player that wants to take advantage of a generous tax credit.

 

Added emphasis to your post in bold. There are currently 3,991 residents in downtown Houston already and 3,722 units under construction / development. We'll have close to 10k residents in a few years. See page 4 of the below:

 

https://www.downtownhouston.org/site_media/uploads/attachments/2016-12-01/Downtown_at_a_Glance_120116.pdf

 

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MAJOR DEVELOPER SURVIVES CLOSE CALL IN INTERNET FORUM

 

February 10th, 2017

 

HOUSTON - Developer Ric Campo of Camden Trust survived a close call yesterday after a poster on an internet forum complained that an anticipated project of his would not start construction this decade. Campo was believed to be in critical danger before an array of other posters jumped to his defense, savagely attacking the poster who had dared question the economic decisions of Camden Trust, with its institutional partners, strong financing relationships and a slew of analysts examining every square inch of the market under a microscope. It is not known whether those defending Camden were among those partners or analysts, or perhaps Campo's own family members, or whether they were merely alert citizens who took it upon themselves to defend a publicly traded company with a board of directors and millions of shareholders.

 

More on this story as it develops.

Edited by H-Town Man
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