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A Town Square For Houston


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Milam and Travis has heavy traffic because of 45. Again where market square sits is not as lazy as the east dude if downtown. I cross streets on the east side without more than a glance. West of Main is much busier

Because the east side isn't developed yet! As you said, it's mostly empty lots!

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I thought we had established that many great squares have busy streets on one or two sides. Market Square has two busy streets and two smaller streets. This should be workable. Yes, the east side isn't busy now because there's not much there, but what will happen when more development comes along?

 

 

Because the east side isn't developed yet! As you said, it's mostly empty lots!

It depends on what the new developments are. The west side of downtown is largely office workers from miles and miles away. The East side is developing lots of residential and stadia. If they have to drive from home to get to the west, but for the east they are already home so they would not have to drive to get there. a developed east side does not necessarily mean more traffic if a lot of the development is residential.

 

 

As for Market square, I don't know. Maybe I will change my mind after Hines and International tower goes in. At that point most of the bus traffic along Travis and Milam would be rerouted to northline so that may also help, as for now Market square doesn't IN MY OPINION have the feel of a square

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I would really like to see all 4 blocks of Montrose @ Westheimer redeveloped to include a cohesive "square" plaza with a huge LED rainbow beaming across the intersection from Aladdin to the Specs strip center. So, an open square plaza with fountains on opposite sides. A big open gathering space with tall palm trees, places for vendors during pride, underground parking, a boutique mid-rise hotel over looking the intersection, and mid-rise apartments surrounding the rest of the square with ground floor retail/restaurant space.

 

Of course all are welcome, and the rainbow should not be "just a gay thing", but an everybody thing. It should represent all the colors of the racial spectrum, and religious, a monument to the diversity shared not only by our city but our whole world. With a plaque that reads "Diversity - Unity above everything else". 

 

I feel like this is the center of the neighborhood and really one of the last stretches of urban westheimer that has yet to be fully developed.

 

Sorry for the fantasy.

 

 

Don't apologize, 

 

tell us more.

 

Just to be clear, you are talking about the following blocks  (going clockwise):

Aladdin to Uchi on the north east

Smoothie King to Ruggles on the south east

Half priced books, Specs, Papa Johns and  jack in the box on the south west

on the north east would it be just the Valero or would you include the Cafe behind and Burger King across Lincoln?? Close off Lincoln?

 

Would you divert traffic away from the intersection or have a roundabout or something in the center?

 

traffic access to that area is horrible.

 

If the underground parking is located under the square a good idea would probably be running the intersection underground at different levels so that flow would unimpeded. Kind of like a stack interchange but underground-- with Montrose being on level one and Westheimer on level two and a public transport level on three.

 

No visible pass-trough traffic on ground level, but also no retail below ground. 

 

Who would be the statue in the middle of the square? a drag queen? lol

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Don't apologize, 

 

tell us more.

 

Just to be clear, you are talking about the following blocks  (going clockwise):

Aladdin to Uchi on the north east

Smoothie King to Ruggles on the south east

Half priced books, Specs, Papa Johns and  jack in the box on the south west

on the north east would it be just the Valero or would you include the Cafe behind and Burger King across Lincoln?? Close off Lincoln?

 

Would you divert traffic away from the intersection or have a roundabout or something in the center?

 

traffic access to that area is horrible.

 

If the underground parking is located under the square a good idea would probably be running the intersection underground at different levels so that flow would unimpeded. Kind of like a stack interchange but underground-- with Montrose being on level one and Westheimer on level two and a public transport level on three.

 

No visible pass-trough traffic on ground level, but also no retail below ground. 

 

Who would be the statue in the middle of the square? a drag queen? lol

No the intersection would remain as is. 

 

287zzv9.jpg

 

Just a quick sketch on a sticky note. Sorry for the dark background, I didn't want my co-workers to realize the level of nerdiness that I just achieved by sketching a make believe square on a sticky note and taking a picture of it to post on a website.

 

The Green dots for palm tree locations. L shaped buildings behind the plaza to make the best use of space. The power lines would have to be buried and the garage would go under the current intersection. Obviously I'm not some master plaza designer but I don't have the time or skill to draw how I actually see it in my mind. 

 

Edit: F is for Fountain.

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Interesting Montrose1100...  I've always figured Montrose @ Westheimer was one of the top 5 "signature" intersections in Houston.  Maybe the top intersection.

 

How would you propose massing the elements surrounding this space?  Height limitations?  Size limitations?  And I think a rather hefty cultural institution would need to find itself among the buildings surrounding the outer periphery for the greatest benefit.

 

** Oh, don't like the palm tree idea.  Houston has great oaks.  Leave the palms for the coast, where they belong, not 75 miles inland.  (just my $0.02)

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This is a very interesting read on creating public urban spaces:

http://www.pps.org/reference/reference-categories/placemaking-tools/

 

It has a break down on town square with elements similar to mine:

http://www.pps.org/reference/reference-categories/squares-articles/

 

They list square that need work and the two major areas they have problems with are the same aspects of Market square that I criticize (Busy streets and poor interaction with surroundings): http://www.pps.org/reference/underperformingus/

 

but not to be all negative they list what they feel are the 12 best squares in North America. Here are excerpts of why they feel these are the best. They kind of jive with why I think Market square does not give the feeling of a square:

 

1. Jackson Square, New Orleans

This remarkable square at the center of New Orleans’ French Quarter is beautifully laid out, with historic buildings on three sides facing out on a lush park full of trees, flowers and pathways. Outside the park, set apart by an elegant fence, a bustling pedestrian thoroughfare swings with the activity of musicians, artists, vendors, and street performers. The approach from neighboring streets is equally impressive, exemplifying the principle that we at PPS frequently describe as “reaching out like an octopus.” As you get closer and closer, catching tantalizing views of the square, the street level experience becomes more interesting and the expectation of what lies ahead grabs you with a real force.

Jackson Square is one of many “sacred places” in an extraordinary city. Those sacred places should be the anchors of New Orleans’ rebirth. If each neighborhood can renew itself around a central public place like Jackson Square, the city may emerge from the catastrophe of Katrina stronger than it was before.

 

Yes there is History in Market Square and the bars around it is neat, but where is the interaction? Where is the street level presence. Nothing welcomes you into or draws you to Market Square. Its just a park that does its own business.

 

2. Rockefeller Plaza, NY

An extraordinary public space within one of the world’s most prominent office building complexes, Rockefeller Plaza is a study in transformation. Thirty-five years ago, this complex was insular and almost privatized. It had a skating rink, but most of the retail was just services for the tenants....

Today, Rockefeller Center’s central gathering place has expanded from a fairly small skating rink and Channel Gardens into a much larger destination including the three blocks of Rockefeller Plaza and all the smaller plazas on 49th and 50th Streets. The next step forward should be to diminish vehicle space on those streets so that the Center’s prominence can be sensed from a greater distance.

This is what Market Square needs. It needs to be turned into a larger destination. Not the park, but the surroundings.

 

3. Pioneer Courthouse Square

This square sets the bar for public space programming in North America. Its modern design includes public art, amenities, flowers, trees, and walls and stairs designed to be sat upon. The wonderfully compact space hosts so many events because the infrastructure for such uses is built into the plans, and active management assures ongoing, effective use. It is one of the first North American squares to be designed from the outset not just as a passive green space, but to be programmed with activities and used by the public.

The square has been called “Portland’s living room” in reference to its important role as a place for the public to gather. In fact, the process of creating Pioneer Courthouse Square–the public debates, the fundraising, and the grand opening–was designed to involve Portland’s residents. Put simply, it showcases Portland’s assets and presents them to the world.

Some of you jumped on my suggestion of designing a public space from nothing but it seemed to have worked well in this ^ case. 

 

4. Campus Martius, Detroit

The recent transformation of the main intersection in downtown Detroit into a spectacular civic square is one of the great stories of urban regeneration in America. This city-defining move, undertaken by the non-profit Detroit 300, would have been remarkable anywhere, but in Detroit–which is beset by as many problems as any major city in North America–it was particularly daring and exceptional. Using Campus Martius to redefine the downtown around a central square was ingenious precisely because most other cities would have gone a different route, like building a costly development project. Instead, Detroit chose this modest but revolutionary way to start with the city center.

 

5. Union Square, New York

 Once a major hub of activity in New York City, Union Square Park had fallen into disrepair by the 1970s and was widely considered to be unsafe. In 1976, the Union Square Greenmarket began setting up vegetable stalls four days a week in the parking lot surrounding the park. Though this was not a traditional use for parks, the Greenmarket established a physical presence that drew residents to buy produce trucked in from farms throughout the region. In the early 1980s, the market’s popularity led to a multimillion-dollar renovation of the park, and a management district was also established in the area. This resulted in an improvement of the neighborhood itself, with the Greenmarket serving as its hub. The market attracts visitors to the park and new residents to nearby housing, and has even spurred the development of nearby restaurants specializing in cuisine prepared with fresh, seasonal ingredients.

Today, this remarkable square has become a powerful district within a city, with many outstanding destinations to boast of. Vitality and community can again be found in and around Union Square, even on days when the market is not operating. In our opinion, because of how this square has evolved, we think it is one of the top five in North America, with the potential to get even better by upgrading the park within and reducing the surrounding traffic to make better connections to adjacent neighborhoods.

 

6. Bryant Park, New York

One of New York’s great renewal stories, which contributed significantly to the turn-around of 42nd Street, Bryant Park has never rested on its laurels. It continues to get better and better. The Christmas market and new winter skating rink have helped elevate Bryant Park to a major year-around destination. It rightly qualifies as a square because, more and more, it functions as a hub of activity rather than a passive oasis.

 

7. Rittenhouse Square, Philadelphia

Rittenhouse Square is a gem in the heart of Philadelphia: a green, leafy oasis, bounded by Walnut Street, 18th and 20th Streets, Locust and Spruce. A variety of buildings, most of them architecturally notable, surround the park: elegant turn-of-the-century apartment buildings, brownstones, and the mansions that make up the Curtis Institute and the Art Alliance, as well as modern high-rises. The strip of Walnut Street near Rittenhouse Square features a good selection of upscale shops and restaurants, but the other streets near the park are more welcoming.

The space is among the best-used public spaces in the United States. Furthermore there is a sense of community here: an interaction between the habitues of the park so that you actually feel this is the City of Brotherly Love after all. People recognize each other and life here has a comfort and allure that has almost vanished everywhere else in the city and the country. The community’s general affluence does 

8.) and 9.) Portsmouth Square and Washington Square, San Francisco

Portsmouth and Washington Squares in Chinatown and North Beach, respectively, are only six blocks apart, each a wonderful reflection of its surrounding community. Just sitting and observing for a few hours in each of them, you can discover the rhythms that make each neighborhood so unique. While the design of Portsmouth Square is western in origin, the Chinese community has adapted it for its own purpose. There are spaces for Chinese games, for children to play, for women to gather and for the elderly to take it all in. On Saturday night there is a night market that brings major activity to Chinatown.

Washington Square has a similar pattern of use, playing to different audiences who use it for different purposes. While it has more grass, the edge uses both within the square and across the street are fully integrated into the square. Both squares define their community and the design of each allows that to happen in a largely self-managing way. They are the best public spaces in San Francisco.

 

10. Square St Louis in Montreal

A classic Victorian fountain is the centerpiece of the park, along with an old gazebo with a small selection of snacks. It is said to be favorite haunt of writers, painters and filmmakers seeking artistic inspiration, but on a sunny day everyone in the neighborhood seems to be there, making it a true town square. The major attraction are plentiful benches, where you can relax, meet your neighbors or just watch as the world passes by.

 

11. The Squares of Savannah

The squares are set out within a unique grid of streets and “lanes” (or alleys) that follows an inspired pattern established by General James Oglethorpe when he founded Savannah in 1733. All of the squares are about 200 feet from north to south, but they vary east to west from a maximum of over 300 feet to a minimum of little more than 100 feet. The largest squares are about three times the size of the smallest.

Magnificent live oak canopies, wide brick sidewalks, inviting benches, refreshing fountains, intriguing monuments and public art, and the feeling of being in beautiful outdoor rooms produce an almost palpable sense of ease and pleasure in most of Savannah’s squares and parks, young and old, black and white, tourist and Savannahian alike.

 

12. Washington Square, NY

 Washington Square Park is one of the best known and best-loved destinations in New York City. And as a neighborhood park and civic gathering place, it is among the world’s greatest public spaces. Washington Square Park has a unique and very special “vibe” that is tied closely to its spontaneous music scene and longstanding use as a performance and protest space. This is arguably the park’s most important attribute. Residents, performers, and regular visitors care deeply about this park because of its history, spontaneity, and role as a gathering space and magnet for activity.

PPS was recently retained by a local organization to study the park and make recommendations on a proposed redesign. What we discovered through our observations, surveys and workshop results was that nearly all of the key attributes of a great public space are present in Washington Square Park. First identified in the research of William Whyte’s Street Life Project (and later refined and expanded upon through PPS’s work), these attributes are:

  • People engaged in a wide range of activities and uses;
  • Diversity of ages and balance of genders;
  • People present in groups as well as alone;
  • Most parts of the park are used (there are few empty or unused areas);
  • Well-used at all different times of day and week, even during poor weather conditions.

Its success can also be measured by other indicators, such as public displays of affection, comfort and safety, stewardship, and the way people share the space to engage in different activities packed tightly together.

 

So there you have it.

Where is Houston's Square???

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No the intersection would remain as is. 

 

287zzv9.jpg

 

Just a quick sketch on a sticky note. Sorry for the dark background, I didn't want my co-workers to realize the level of nerdiness that I just achieved by sketching a make believe square on a sticky note and taking a picture of it to post on a website.

 

The Green dots for palm tree locations. L shaped buildings behind the plaza to make the best use of space. The power lines would have to be buried and the garage would go under the current intersection. Obviously I'm not some master plaza designer but I don't have the time or skill to draw how I actually see it in my mind. 

 

Edit: F is for Fountain.

 

 

Ok I am going to ask a few questions, but so that you don't think I am being mean with all these questions let me say now I am impressed with the plan. I especially like the ring of Palm trees.

 

Ok so when you say the blocks remain the same do you mean the buildings and streets stay as is including the street between Valero and Burger king? The southern blocks are huge while the blocks that Valero and Aladdin are on are tiny.

 

I like the L shaped building idea, it would work well to create the enclosed feel of squares. So would the buildings be behind the palm trees? 

 

 

Remember that giant chandelier that they put up for the Pride parade? What if a giant gaudy thing like that is installed in the center of your square? :D :D 

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^Nix the palms!  Palms are ugly and provide almost zero shade.  If you're going to install palms why not install public art in their place?

 

And why not focus that intersection into more of a circle?  You would utilize more space for development and allow a curious solution to traffic flow around the square/circle?  Given its size would be interesting?

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Interesting Montrose1100...  I've always figured Montrose @ Westheimer was one of the top 5 "signature" intersections in Houston.  Maybe the top intersection.

 

How would you propose massing the elements surrounding this space?  Height limitations?  Size limitations?  And I think a rather hefty cultural institution would need to find itself among the buildings surrounding the outer periphery for the greatest benefit.

 

** Oh, don't like the palm tree idea.  Houston has great oaks.  Leave the palms for the coast, where they belong, not 75 miles inland.  (just my $0.02)

Well depending on the design of the Hotel, I think 10-12 floors should be the max. As for the apartment buildings, 6 floors. Hoping it would spur similar developments along westheimer with more apartment/office buildings of similar height. 

 

As for the Palm Trees vs. Oak trees, Palm trees would leave more space for the openness of the plaza. Oak Trees could take a couple decades to reach their full potential, and would require more space as well as possibly having the roots damage/lift the surrounding area. As far as shade, the restaurants could provide their own with canopies over "their" outside spaces on the rim of the plaza. 

 

Ok I am going to ask a few questions, but so that you don't think I am being mean with all these questions let me say now I am impressed with the plan. I especially like the ring of Palm trees.

 

Ok so when you say the blocks remain the same do you mean the buildings and streets stay as is including the street between Valero and Burger king? The southern blocks are huge while the blocks that Valero and Aladdin are on are tiny.

 

I like the L shaped building idea, it would work well to create the enclosed feel of squares. So would the buildings be behind the palm trees? 

 

 

Remember that giant chandelier that they put up for the Pride parade? What if a giant gaudy thing like that is installed in the center of your square? :D :D

By the intersection remaining the same I mean the configuration of the streets (Montrose & Westheimer). Obviously everything on those blocks would be completely dozed. If it were completely up to me, California would reach Crocker, and thus providing more space. Lincoln (in between the Valero & Burger King would not need to exist. 

 

And yes, they would encompass the square. The Apartments would be uniformed in design, not necessarily twins or triplets, but uniform. The Palms would provide a break up of the man-made materials. The Hotel could be unique and preferably something with a solid glass facade.

 

^Nix the palms!  Palms are ugly and provide almost zero shade.  If you're going to install palms why not install public art in their place?

 

And why not focus that intersection into more of a circle?  You would utilize more space for development and allow a curious solution to traffic flow around the square/circle?  Given its size would be interesting?

While I do like public art, I do not feel it would be necessary. Having huge sculptures would not go with open flow. The giant LED rainbow would be about the size of the arches over Post Oak Blvd. However, I wouldn't mind if it was a little bigger and was somehow a pedestrian bridge. I would even scratch the the rainbow for tall cylinders that light up appropriately for each holiday on each corner.

 

Also, if artistic sculptures were incorporated with the fountains, I could go for that.

 

A bike sharing station could go in. The fountains could even be ground level so kids can run through them in the warmer months.

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Here is a parking map of downtown where I identify 5 spots where I think good squares would go.

 

The boundaries for the squares are in red

 

The 1st one is next to Minute made where I think the Fingers apartments are supposed to go. It is bounded by Crawford, Caroline, Texas and Congress. There are few building on the 9 block site that can be kept and incorporated into the square, but most of the space right now is empty.  It would be two blocks north of the green/Purple lines and three blocks east of the red line. Prairie and Preston are already blocked off by Minute Maid so the traffic is already limited

 

The 2nd one would be just north of discovery green. It would be bound by Avenida de Las Americas (George R Brown), Capitol (light rail),  La Branch and Walker (Discovery Green). The Green/ Purple line would go right through the square. I think Hotels are currently planned for the lots. Crawford and Jackson are already cut off by GRB and Capitol and Rusk will have reduced traffic due to the rail, so this will have reduced traffic in all directions

 

The 3rd could be the area bound by La branch, Lamar, Caroline and Bell. This would be between Green Street, Four Seasons hotel, Park Place, Disco Green, Hilton Hotel,  Toyota Center etc. Dallas, Lamar and Clay are already blocked by GRB and Toyota center so there isn't much through traffic. 

 

The 4th would  probably be called Bell Square because it would totally surround Bell station. It would be bound by Leeland, Travis, Clay and Fannin. The  South east block is slated for a residential complex. Just south of that is Sky House, Houston House is further east, The Savoy would be immediately South, Exxon would be immediately west, their new plaza would tie in nicely, The Days inn Reno would be south west .

 

The 5th would be that 9 to 12 block area between Hamilton, St Joseph (Maybe as far as Pierce), Leland and Crawford. This is the most underutilized area of downtown. lots of potential for anything here. Something really major could go here

 

 

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Some of you jumped on my suggestion of designing a public space from nothing but it seemed to have worked well in this ^ case. 

 

 

Pioneer Square in Portland is in the heart of the business district, surrounded by interesting buildings. The square may have been developed from scratch, but the context definitely was not. This is a far cry from the empty blocks of east downtown.

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  • 1 month later...

If the whole "bury the Pierce Elevated" idea ever happened, we could have our own Piazza del Duomo in front of the Cathedral downtown like every city and town in Italy. 

 

With people trying to pick our pockets and massive blocks of Japanese tourists taking photos and long lines waiting to pay a Euro to get into the church and American women draping their maps over their bare shoulders to pass the dress code requirement...

 

It would be great.

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I don't want to be rude but are you familiar with these places?

TMC has far far far less parking than any comparable employment center in Texas.

Yes. I've worked in TMC for many years. TMC has 28,000 parking spaces in their parking system.

 

 

Why do you think the rail is so heavily used in TMC?

Because as an employment center, TMC is also a place where people get service, that is, medical care. A massive number of patients come to TMC for care. This differs from, for example, Greenway Plaza. While some businesses provide service on-site at Greenway Plaza, most of the businesses there are office space where customers don't have to come to interface. A good example is Direct Energy. This means that parking is only needed for employees, not employees and customers.

 

Most workers park at Smithlands and ride the rail in.

Please show me the statistics you're pulling your data from. I ride the train from Downtown to TMC. Many other Med Center workers do as well. Please show me your statistics that a majority of Med Center workers park at Smithlands (as opposed to the 28,000 spaces in the Med Center, Fannin South, Midtown, or Downtown, or bike commuting). You don't have these statistics because you are incorrect.

 

Have you try riding the rail when Houston is having a big sporting event? The flood of people is crazy.

I've lived Downtown for the past six years and I don't own a car. Of course I have.

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If the whole "bury the Pierce Elevated" idea ever happened, we could have our own Piazza del Duomo in front of the Cathedral downtown like every city and town in Italy. 

 

I'm not sure what happened with the idea, but when the co-cathedral was being planned there was the idea to tear down the old church on the Pierce block and convert the block into a square.  I suppose with the Pierce Elevated looming overhead it was considered a bit of a non-starter.

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With people trying to pick our pockets and massive blocks of Japanese tourists taking photos and long lines waiting to pay a Euro to get into the church and American women draping their maps over their bare shoulders to pass the dress code requirement...

 

It would be great.

 

Finally our claim to "world class" status would be realized!

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I'm not sure what happened with the idea, but when the co-cathedral was being planned there was the idea to tear down the old church on the Pierce block and convert the block into a square.  I suppose with the Pierce Elevated looming overhead it was considered a bit of a non-starter.

 

Between that and proximity to the bus station, I'd say the ambiance would be less than spiritually uplifting. 

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Yes. I've worked in TMC for many years. TMC has 28,000 parking spaces in their parking system.

Because as an employment center, TMC is also a place where people get service, that is, medical care. A massive number of patients come to TMC for care. This differs from, for example, Greenway Plaza. While some businesses provide service on-site at Greenway Plaza, most of the businesses there are office space where customers don't have to come to interface. A good example is Direct Energy. This means that parking is only needed for employees, not employees and customers.

Please show me the statistics you're pulling your data from. I ride the train from Downtown to TMC. Many other Med Center workers do as well. Please show me your statistics that a majority of Med Center workers park at Smithlands (as opposed to the 28,000 spaces in the Med Center, Fannin South, Midtown, or Downtown, or bike commuting). You don't have these statistics because you are incorrect.

I've lived Downtown for the past six years and I don't own a car. Of course I have.

Come on dude. It's common sense. 28k parking spots? Really?? To service 100,000 employees and tens of thousands patients visitors and students?

You ask for stats, but your info speaks for itself 28,000 spots account for only a 1/7 of the people in TMC. Their website state that TMC hosts 168,000 people a day. I'm not incorrect on this. TMC rail Stops are more heavily used than other stops because of the low number of parking spots. Save your snappy comments. I don't know what delusion you are living under, TMC rail usage is high because of forced parking out of the district. Even looking at the parking Map, it shows that only about 7 of the 16 garages are deep in TMC. The rest are on the edges (fannin, Holcomb) or outside of that area.

Compare that to Downtown. 100,000 parking spots. that is a 1 to 1.5 ratio of parking to workers. The ratio is 1 to 5 for TMC (1 to 7 counting students,patients etc). Downtown definitely could take a page out of TMCs book

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Come on dude. It's common sense. 28k parking spots? Really?? To service 100,000 employees and tens of thousands patients visitors and students?

You ask for stats, but your info speaks for itself 28,000 spots account for only a 1/7 of the people in TMC. Their website state that TMC hosts 168,000 people a day. I'm not incorrect on this. TMC rail Stops are more heavily used than other stops because of the low number of parking spots. Save your snappy comments. I don't know what delusion you are living under, TMC rail usage is high because of forced parking out of the district. Even looking at the parking Map, it shows that only about 7 of the 16 garages are deep in TMC. The rest are on the edges (fannin, Holcomb) or outside of that area.

Compare that to Downtown. 100,000 parking spots. that is a 1 to 1.5 ratio of parking to workers. The ratio is 1 to 5 for TMC (1 to 7 counting students,patients etc). Downtown definitely could take a page out of TMCs book

 

It is not a low number of parking spots, it is more parking spots than any other job center in Houston except for Downtown. Yes, of course the demand is far higher, that's my point.

I'm going to ask one more time for your evidence that a majority of the people working at TMC park at Smithlands before giving up on you. You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

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It is not a low number of parking spots, it is more parking spots than any other job center in Houston except for Downtown. Yes, of course the demand is far higher, that's my point.

I'm going to ask one more time for your evidence that a majority of the people working at TMC park at Smithlands before giving up on you. You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

Duh, it has the second number is spots because it has the second highest number of workers etc.

Facts are facts you just don't want to see it.

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Duh, it has the second number is spots because it has the second highest number of workers etc.

Facts are facts you just don't want to see it.

 

So I take it you are abandoning your claim that Smithlands is where a majority of TMC workers park. Look, it's simple. Cite your source or abandon the baseless claim. TMC workers come from many sources. Some take park and ride buses. Some ride rail from Downtown, Midtown, Museum District, Fannin South.

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some of the hospitals in TMC have parking contracts with lots in the area called Smithlands, so yes, a shitload (excuse the French) of TMC workers park there and rid the choo choo in to work. It's a shuttle for them.

 

I know, as a TMC employee I was well aware. (Some ride the train, more ride an actual TMC shuttle service from Smithlands).

 

Still, NOT a majority.

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Its not arcane. Why would you have tons if parking in a square?

I swear some of you act like you have never left Texas.

The point of the town square is for the pedestrian outdoors experience. Unlike life centers where you drive from store to store.

There is a name for squares with parking. It's called a parking lot, and downtown has dozens of those.

Enrich your lives. Take a trip. Visit other cities, feel how welcoming these tiwn squares are and how they enrich the memory of your visit.

Houston s number one attraction is the ugly AF Galleria Mall which is.... a mall. His memorable. I went to the 4th largest city in the US last week. It was fun. We went to the mall. Wow.

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Visit other cities, feel how welcoming these tiwn squares are and how they enrich the memory of your visit.

First, which town squares are you drawing emphasis from? Some of the ones in small towns are rather unimpressive. And "how they enrich the memory of your visit"? Geez...that sounds like market-speak.

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$5!


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