Hardy Toll Road Extension

[Slick Vik]

This will be slightly more convenient for drivers at best, but it's taking property out of an area that is improving due to the light rail. Seems like such a contradiction. As usual putting the highway through a minority neighborhood. Try putting it through piney point village or west university and see if it would go through. This is sad an unnecessary.

[Ross]

There's no need for a freeway through the Villages, and the cost of land would make it prohibitive in any case. From the maps I've seen, the Hardy extension is not going to result in the loss of many properties, since it runs along the rail lines and through some areas near super fund sites that aren't ever going to be used for anything else.

[JLWM8609]

Property was being condemned for the Hardy Toll Road extension long before light rail came to the area. The first properties were bought out in 2001.

[ArchFan]

The Hardy extension slices through the 5th Ward, no?  I don't know how many residents there will be displaced by this project, but I'm certainty sympathetic with any older low-income folks who may be displaced from their homes.  

 

Aside from this project, my guess is that this area will ultimately "gentrify" in a similar way as the other wards.  (I.e., the local low-income residents will fight it, but ultimately the landowners will cash out and the land will be developed in the slipshod way it has been done elsewhere in Houston.  E.g., Fourth Ward, Washington Av. corridor.)

 

For now, I'll just say that SV's reference to Piney Point Village jogged my memory of the struggle the CoH (and Harris Co, if memory serves) had to extend San Felipe through Piney Point and Bunker Hill Villages.  For many years, San Felipe -- going west from Voss Road -- dead-ended at Buffalo Bayou.  There was no major E-W thoroughfare between Westheimer and I-10.  Despite being silk-stocking communities (and probably well-connected politically), they lost the battle.  Personally, I was sad to see some of the few remaining areas of quiet forest turned into a major commuter zone ... but it was for the good of the greater community.  

[Triton]

Okay, sounds like you don't actually live in this area that is being affected by this construction... as a resident between the Woodland Heights and Northside Village, this is basically in my backyard. 

 

Most of the homes that have been torn down have been abandoned long ago. There are not very many people that are being affected by this extension. It's actually more of the factories along the railroad that have been hurt by this.

Next, this extension is mainly along railroad tracks.

Now I'm all for light rail but light rail hasn't even opened yet. There is ZERO property that has been improved thus far because of the light rail's north extension. Zero new townhomes. Zero new retail. Zero nothing. The ONLY thing I've heard of is a new senior citizen facility near Moody Park. That. Is. It.

Again, I'm so glad we finally got the light rail going through here but it's track record is zero new development for the north line... it is far too early and we'll have to see what comes, but I do believe it will bring new benefits and development to the area.

Back to the Hardy extension... Although convenience plays a part, that is not it's main focus. It's to improve the economy by lowering congestion. 

[ig2ba]

Most commonly, gentrification happens in older residential areas. Less commonly, it’s former industrial areas without any Superfund sites, though there are examples of this throughout Houston.

 

But, I’m curious why the new light rail line is being expected to gentrify an area currently used as an industrial area, and which was cleared of most of the old residences more than a decade ago. This expectation is absurd since the most successful section of Houston’s light rail system (both current and future) is (and will continue to be) the current Red Line, and this has failed to spur redevelopment more than a few blocks on either side.

 

Plus, with the exception of St. Arnold’s, there are no attractions whatsoever to anchor redevelopment. Oh, plus there are tank farms. Those should attract yuppies to the area to buy townhomes like moths to a flame.

[JLWM8609]

Per this thread on aaroads.com, the first construction project related to the Hardy Toll Road extension should begin soon. It's just the Collingsworth overpass. Mainlane construction will take place at a later time.

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=17748.0

[BeerNut]

http://www.khou.com/news/local/cash-coins-will-soon-be-banned-on-hardy-toll-road/270967735

[Triton]

2020 start for the extension... I guess about the same time the I-45 construction will start.

[Houston19514]

38 minutes ago, Triton said:

2020 start for the extension... I guess about the same time the I-45 construction will start.

 

Where did you see a 2020 start for the extension?

[Triton]

13 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Where did you see a 2020 start for the extension?

 

Quote

Eventually, Harris County toll road officials plan to extend the Hardy to downtown Houston. That work isn’t expected to start until 2020, however.

 

http://www.chron.com/news/transportation/article/Hardy-closing-this-weekend-for-EZ-TAG-conversion-8355087.php

[Houston19514]

16 minutes ago, Triton said:

 

 

http://www.chron.com/news/transportation/article/Hardy-closing-this-weekend-for-EZ-TAG-conversion-8355087.php

 

Gotcha.  Thanks.  So... roughly 50:50 chance of being correct.  ;-)

[Triton]

24 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Gotcha.  Thanks.  So... roughly 50:50 chance of being correct.  ;-)

Hah. Very true. However, it does make sense for them to start around the same time that portion of I-10, 59, and I-45 are reconstructed since that whole intersection where Hardy will connect is due to be completely rebuilt.

[JLWM8609]

18 hours ago, BeerNut said:

http://www.khou.com/news/local/cash-coins-will-soon-be-banned-on-hardy-toll-road/270967735

You'd think they'd open up the I-45 and/or US 59 HOT lanes this weekend while the Hardy is closed to help accommodate the traffic that would otherwise use the Hardy as an alternate route, especially the IAH bound traffic.

[CoolBuddy06]

Thought I'd bump up this topic with project website:

http://www.hardyconnector.org/

 

By the way can anyone tell me which HB&T rail line was relocated? I'd like to see the before and after map.

[HoustonMidtown]

Plans moving forward for Hardy Toll Road downtown connector

https://abc13.com/4329362/

 

 

[Houston19514]

On 8/27/2017 at 7:25 AM, CoolBuddy06 said:

Thought I'd bump up this topic with project website:

http://www.hardyconnector.org/

 

By the way can anyone tell me which HB&T rail line was relocated? I'd like to see the before and after map.

 

The one that runs parallel to Hardy St and Elysian St., just a bit to the east of them.

[Twinsanity02]

12 hours ago, HoustonMidtown said:

Plans moving forward for Hardy Toll Road downtown connector

https://abc13.com/4329362/

 

 

The extension is going to open this area of the downtown to much development. Rapid access to the airport will be a good selling point. This section of downtown is some distance from the downtown core but that should not be a major obstacle.

[Luminare]

I'm sure they aren't going to build the actual part of the tollway until the i45 reroute raps up their comments and finalize their designs. Both are suppose to work in tandem with one another.

[JLWM8609]

5 hours ago, Luminare said:

I'm sure they aren't going to build the actual part of the tollway until the i45 reroute raps up their comments and finalize their designs. Both are suppose to work in tandem with one another.

 

Plans state construction of the tollway extension won't be complete until March 2023. The goal is to have the I-45 reroute around Downtown complete by 2026. There are stubouts in the current interchange to accommodate the Hardy extension, but I don't know if they'll briefly use them to access the Hardy extension until the new interchange is complete.

[Triton]

7 minutes ago, JLWM8609 said:

 

Plans state construction of the tollway extension won't be complete until March 2023. The goal is to have the I-45 reroute around Downtown complete by 2026. There are stubouts in the current interchange to accommodate the Hardy extension, but I don't know if they'll briefly use them to access the Hardy extension until the new interchange is complete.

 

The more likely scenario is to simply connect to the completed Elysian Viaduct first and then I would assume they would add the connectors to I-69 later.

[MikeRichardson]

Is it just me or do I vaguely recall hearing at one point in time that this connector was to be free of tolls?

 

And, now, of course, "tolls"?

[MaxConcrete]

12 hours ago, MikeRichardson said:

Is it just me or do I vaguely recall hearing at one point in time that this connector was to be free of tolls?

 

And, now, of course, "tolls"?

 

A long time ago, 10 years or more, I recall seeing one or more reports that it would be toll-free. I seem to recall the connector was described as a long on-ramp to the existing toll road. But I don't know that there ever was an official plan or decision for it to be toll free.

I think the cost of the project escalated substantially, and that may have contributed to the addition of tolling.

[intencity77]

This extension has been proposed for quite a long time now. Dare I say late 90’s-early 2000’s. I remember it intially being referred to as the “Maury Street Expressway” and being toll free. 

[Triton]

Lorraine Underpass

 

Lorraine Underpass by Marc longoria, on Flickr

[Ross]

8 hours ago, Triton said:

Lorraine Underpass

 

Lorraine Underpass by Marc longoria, on Flickr

 

Is that connecting the West side of Lorraine with the East, so you will be able to get to 59? My wife says Lorraine used to have a level crossing there, much like the old Collingsworth crossing.

[Geographer]

Why was an underpass constructed instead of an overpass?  An underpass is vulnerable to flooding.

[Ross]

1 hour ago, Geographer said:

Why was an underpass constructed instead of an overpass?  An underpass is vulnerable to flooding.

Cost and low traffic counts.

[BigFootsSocks]

Last one to do is Quitmann and then construction can start. (I may be making that up but it sounds familiar)

[Ross]

24 minutes ago, BigFootsSocks said:

Last one to do is Quitmann and then construction can start. (I may be making that up but it sounds familiar)

Quitman already has a level crossing. Might be updated to an underpass at some point.

[Houston19514]

The Quitman grade separation is scheduled to start next year (approximately April 2021). 

 

Construction of the Hardy extension is scheduled to start in September 2021.

[Triton]

4 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

The Quitman grade separation is scheduled to start next year (approximately April 2021). 

 

Construction of the Hardy extension is scheduled to start in September 2021.

You were right about Chron being wrong then.

[BigFootsSocks]

23 hours ago, Ross said:

Quitman already has a level crossing. Might be updated to an underpass at some point.

Yeah my bad that’s what I meant, couldn’t remember if it was an underpass or overpass

[tigereye]

Dug Begley says the county has shelved this project due to the current economic climate. 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by tigereye

[Avossos]

18 minutes ago, tigereye said:

Dug Begley says the county has shelved this project due to the current economic climate. 

 

 

 

I'd like to see more direct confirmation that hardy extension is shelved... Like you said much work has been done already - millions and millions of dollars. It is aggrevating to me that *IF* this is actually on hold, there was no official announcement by HCTRA OR Houston Chronicle reporting...

[Houston19514]

FWIW, HCTRA's website has nothing about it being shelved.  But construction of the extension toll lanes is not scheduled to start until September 2021.  The other (preparatory) items on the time line seem to be going pretty much according to schedule.

 

http://www.hardyconnector.org/

[HoustonMidtown]

https://abc13.com/hardy-downtown-connector-extension-on-ih-610-north-loop-houston-traffic-harris-county-toll-road-authority/12895324/

 

[Montrose1100]

3 hours ago, HoustonMidtown said:

https://abc13.com/hardy-downtown-connector-extension-on-ih-610-north-loop-houston-traffic-harris-county-toll-road-authority/12895324/

 

Hope they'll fix the mess that is 45/Hardy @ 610 North. Taking Hardy to 59 works wonderfully since the onramp puts you directly on the 59 exit.

[Amlaham]

Is this really needed though? Does there need to be another highway coming into downtown? 

[NB_Brendan]

More induced demand! Yay!

[cspwal]

2 hours ago, Amlaham said:

Is this really needed though? Does there need to be another highway coming into downtown? 

If they complete it before starting on NHHIP it will be an important reliever of all the construction traffic. I wonder if it would be possible to include this connector in transit connections to the north side (particularly the airport)

[Triton]

12 hours ago, Amlaham said:

Is this really needed though? Does there need to be another highway coming into downtown? 

Nope. This is for the Woodlands folk.

[Naviguessor]

^^ It would be a good/slick link between Downtown and IAH.  Using it would avoid the S#hitshow gateways of I-45 & 59.   

[Triton]

4 hours ago, Naviguessor said:

^^ It would be a good/slick link between Downtown and IAH.  Using it would avoid the S#hitshow gateways of I-45 & 59.   

I've said this before and I'll say it again in this thread. 

The good slick link should be commuter rail from IAH into Post HTX. The rail line already exists and you would have to just build the connecting line west of IAH and then have it go underground approaching the runways and taxiways. It's what Denver does. It's something that we can do too. 

[Ross]

1 hour ago, Triton said:

I've said this before and I'll say it again in this thread. 

The good slick link should be commuter rail from IAH into Post HTX. The rail line already exists and you would have to just build the connecting line west of IAH and then have it go underground approaching the runways and taxiways. It's what Denver does. It's something that we can do too. 

There's no way that UP will let anyone use the lines outside the Loop. So, new rail lines would have to be built - where do you put them?

[samagon]

5 hours ago, Naviguessor said:

^^ It would be a good/slick link between Downtown and IAH.  Using it would avoid the S#hitshow gateways of I-45 & 59.   

are you suggesting the Hardy corridor is better gateway to Houston? 

I know the bar is low, but yeesh.

[tigereye]

On 3/1/2023 at 10:44 AM, Amlaham said:

Is this really needed though? Does there need to be another highway coming into downtown? 

For all 45 commuters, absolutely.

16 hours ago, Triton said:

Nope. This is for the Woodlands folk.

No, it’s for everyone that uses 45, which portions inside the Belt have not been expanded since the 90’s. It needs work more then any other freeway in Houston right now.

6 hours ago, Naviguessor said:

^^ It would be a good/slick link between Downtown and IAH.  Using it would avoid the S#hitshow gateways of I-45 & 59.   

THIS. But also this below.

1 hour ago, Triton said:

I've said this before and I'll say it again in this thread. 

The good slick link should be commuter rail from IAH into Post HTX. The rail line already exists and you would have to just build the connecting line west of IAH and then have it go underground approaching the runways and taxiways. It's what Denver does. It's something that we can do too. 

This city should be building commuter rail lines along most of these corridors, up Hardy, along Hempstead (for 290 commuters), along US 90 to Ft Bend. This city cannot be handcuffed by by rail companies like UP. Solutions need to be found for betterment of everyone in this city. Doing nothing is simply unacceptable. 

[Ross]

2 hours ago, tigereye said:

 

This city should be building commuter rail lines along most of these corridors, up Hardy, along Hempstead (for 290 commuters), along US 90 to Ft Bend. This city cannot be handcuffed by by rail companies like UP. Solutions need to be found for betterment of everyone in this city. Doing nothing is simply unacceptable. 

Cities cannot take railroad property. That's prevented by Federal law. And that's ignoring the huge negative impact that blocking freight rail would have. If Houston should be building rail, then someone will have to pony up the billions required to take people's houses and businesses.

[JClark54]

39 minutes ago, Ross said:

Cities cannot take railroad property. That's prevented by Federal law. And that's ignoring the huge negative impact that blocking freight rail would have. If Houston should be building rail, then someone will have to pony up the billions required to take people's houses and businesses.

The Houston complex was just confirmed as the most congested rail complex in the United States. The FRA found Houston's frequency of trains stopped at at-grade crossings -- not blockages as trains move through, mind you, but trains literally parked on streets  -- is double the nation's second worst complex.

No way Union Pacific and BNSF, the two major line owners in the complex, provide trackage rights to a party for which they aren't currently obligated. They can't effectively manage their own train scheduling, by their own admission to the STB. It'd take an act of Congress to force them to permit a new passenger train operation to use their lines. 

[Triton]

Wow... wow...

So we're willing to spend billions on highways by taking people's homes, demolishing massive multi-family complexes like Lofts at the Ballpark, and tearing down businesses but as soon as you mention rail, we can't do it guys! There's just no way!

I'm telling you now, 40 years later, we'll be wishing we had made these investments now. The city is only growing denser by the month because people don't want to have to drive out an hour to their homes. And there comes a time where we can't have 30 lane highways coming into the city.... we will have needed to build commuter rail projects where suburban folk can park at a parking garage and hop on the train into the city. This is already done in other American cities and eventually we will have to do it here too.