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New Trophy Tower?

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I saw in the Dallas Biz Journal today that Dallas may get a massive new trophy tower that may exceed 1.5 million sq. ft. with no height restrictions. Hate that...

 

Question becomes: do you think a Dallas developer will go for the gold and erect Texas' newest tallest tower? If so, does Houston then play second fiddle to the snobs of the north?

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2013/11/06/ross-perot-makes-key-land-buy-in.html

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I don't think he will build something that is 1003' tall - at least nothing that tall from ground to roof.

 

The tallest buildings in Texas: are 1.9 (JP/Chase), 1.8 (Wells Fargo), 1.8 (BoA Plaza - Dallas) and 1.4 (Williams) in square footage.  Just going by those examples it would seem that we may expect perhaps a 60 floor building, but nothing much taller?

 

I doubt if something taller does get built that some developer will want to build a super tall here just because.  Maybe in a few years or next decade?

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I should add - just because there aren't restrictions of any kind doesn't mean that Ross Perot Jr will build the next Sears Tower there.  Dallas was in a boom period far greater than this and the Bank of America Plaza was the largest building then constructed.

 

What I bet will happen is a multi-purpose building approaching 850 feet will be built.  That would make it Dallas' 2nd tallest (excluding non-ornamental stuff) and taller than anything in Texas except the previously mentioned buildings.

 

It will be nice to see a significant building that is new on Dallas' skyline.  Despite the solid growth years up north they haven't really built anything more than 20 floors in downtown.

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The lot is zoned to allow for a building over 1.5 million sq ft. By no means does that mean the building will be that large, just that it could be.

Edited by ClutchCity

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I am a native Houstonian, but am TX proud, unless TX is acting idiotically, lol. So, I don't mind if Big D, SA or Austin get iconic towers, BUT, I do want HTown to lead the way when it comes to supertalls. We are touting ourselves as a world city; the energy capital of the world. It then follows that we should have an iconic, world class 1200 plus footer. Period. DT preferably.

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+/- 21 floors at 1.5 million sq ft? That's a beast.

 

No.  The building pictured is what has been proposed for a site in uptown Dallas.  Construction awaits an anchor tenant.  it will of course be nowhere near 1.5 million square feet (assuming it even gets built).   EDIT:  FWIW, the building pictured was "announced" a little more than 1 year ago.  20 stories, 470,000 square feet of office space; 60,000 square feet of retail.  At the time of the announcement, construction was slated to start in 2013.

 

On the subject of the "new trophy tower", there is very little to it.  All that has happened is that Ross Perot Jr. bought a parcel of land on the edge of downtown Dallas that is zoned to "allow" more than 1.5 million square feet.  No plans have been announced and it is likely that Perot has no specific plans for the plot at this time.  Given the office market in Dallas, it is highly unlikely that anything even approaching supertall status will be going up and it is also highly unlikely they will build anything approaching 1.5 million square feet.

 

The smart money is on this scenario:  The site became available for what Perot saw as a good price, especially given that the site produces income (it is leased to Bank of America).  Perot buys the site and makes a fluff PR statement about it being a prime gateway site for an iconic statement, yadda yadda yadda.  I think we can expect to see the BofA drive-through in operation for quite some time.

Edited by Houston19514
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Double FWIW Marcus Allen, we have the only two super talls in the state (Super tall is defined as a tower over 300m).

I guess we will wait and see what Mr. Perot has in mind. I don't see our neighbors to the north building anything that tall in a long time... Unless it is a total signature that breaks 300m. Otherwise there is too much available space to compete with. But I guess that didn't stop the Museum Tower from being built did it?

Edited by Montrose1100

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Not sure what FWIW means, but I know that we have the two tallest in TX. I am greedy, I want another one. LoL.

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Not sure what FWIW means, but I know that we have the two tallest in TX. I am greedy, I want another one. LoL.

 

FWIW = For what it's worth

 

Museum Tower is residential. Not office. Not sure if that matters.

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FWIW = For what it's worth

Museum Tower is residential. Not office. Not sure if that matters.

I know. I was just saying how the demand for it wasn't there but got built anyways.

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Central Expressway is already getting a 1.5Msf lease up at Cityline (a new CityCentre-style mixed-use lifestyle TOD) from State Farm, which is moving jobs from Illinois.  

 

Houston will probably always "lead the way", and I guess you can call it that, with giant filing cabinets for people in business suits, because the pump it and sell it mentality leads to more hierarchical organizational structure, and built environment to match, than the networked models where Dallas makes its new money now.  All of DFW's skyrises date from the epoch when it was the FIRE capital of the Southwest, which was then a "developing country" to the rest of the U.S.' First World -- days we will not see again.

 

The only possibility I can see for this particular investment is if first-tier markets have become so overpriced again already that some of their investors look to Dallas and to Houston for better development deals and timelines.

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I don't know about Downtown Dallas getting any really tall building anytime soon.

The office vacancy rate its ridiculously high at 30%, and the residential market didn't have that much of a demand to warrant a really tall building.

If anything I would expect a tall tower to go up in nearby uptown Dallas, if its mixed use, before one goes up in downtown

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Two of them

Along with Todd's plan, Sarimsakci, a Turkish developer working on redoing 211 N. Ervay St. near Pacific Plaza, has put together some plans with architectural firm HOK to bring the site to its "highest and best use."

Sarimsakci's plans include two residential towers -- one 70 stories and the other 60 stories -- totaling 1,300 condo homes with a deep below-ground parking garage totaling enough spaces for 1,855 cars. The towers would include ground floor retail for a grocery store or other retail space.

Those parking spaces could mean a lot to Sarimsakci, who has no devoted parking for his 18-story aquamarine building.

Along with bringing more parking to the city's center, the towers would help downtown Dallas fulfill its desire for more homes in downtown, as well as create a green space and amphitheater for people to gather and enjoy the park, said Sarimsakci, who leads Alterra International, which is undergoing a rebrand to Alto.

"We want to create density on this park," he told me. "This would be the tallest concrete structure west of the Mississippi River; we want to push the envelope with this project."

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That's irritating! It should be Houston!

Don't be upset at pie in the sky announcements. Houston is getting actual towers not speculating and pitching unrealistic plans.

Fact of the matter is Museum tower has sold what 14 out of 119 units.

Other buildings like the Beat lofts remain really empty.

I doubt two giant towers with a zillion units will plop in dallas anytime soon

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That's one of three proposals for the site in question. I would kill to sneak a glance at the HOK renderings.

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Pictures of the proposed residential towers

pacific-plaza4-copy*600.jpg
pacific-plaza5-copy*600.jpg

 

Edited by Dallaz
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Looks pretty serious.. Lol

I wish the renderings were better but the article did say that the developer is working with HOK. Hopefully, better renderings will be released very soon.

Edited by Dallaz

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thank you kindly, as per sharing dallaz.  no matter the "silly season" rhetoric, regarding dallas not being able to fill up certain edifices that are now upon lease measures.  who really cares, about this rhetoric?  i am a houstonian, that absolutely loves our fair city upon the bayou.  however, imo, it is a well known fact, that whenever dallas decides to go full measures ahead, as per any related project..  not only shall they succeed at it, but they always become a bit more "world class" than before.

 

"hat's off" to you, as per sharing with us these wonderful prospective illustrations.  "hat's off" to dallas, as per constantly striving to remain the glamour capital of texas.  (there is simply nothing wrong with this achievement).

 

nonetheless, please bare in mind that "houston" is called the "fourth largest city upon the nation" for a reason.  we are BIG and constantly growing.  the momentum, has boomeranged right back down south, upon the ever sparkling bayou city.  we are now taking off, full speed ahead..  just like a rocket!  and whenever we land..  we will land upright, the same way we take off!
 

 

Pictures of the proposed residential towers

pacific-plaza4-copy*600.jpg
pacific-plaza5-copy*600.jpg

 

 


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For $600 million, developer proposes garage, ‘fancy’ grocery and two 70-story residential towers for Pacific Plaza

http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/2014/05/for-600-million-developer-proposes-garage-fancy-grocery-and-two-70-story-residential-towers-for-pacific-plaza.html/

Back to Sarimsakci’s proposal, which he says will cost $600 million and involve a public-private partnership that involves the city becoming a “20 percent partner in the deal.” That right there might be a sticking point: City officials killed an earlier proposal involving an underground parking structure when they told Tower Petroleum and, for now, Corrigan Tower owner John Kirtland they didn’t want to be in the parking-lot business.

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^Cool.  Not sure if I agree that CoDallas needs to be a 20% partner on this (if I'm reading right?).

What do you think Dallaz, as a resident of the Big D?

 

Also, I agree these are trophy towers but I don't think they're any where near 300meters in height.  If this does come to fruition I'll be glad since it makes sense either Dallas or Houston would have the tallest residential towers in the state and not Austin.

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Previous the Museum Tower (Tower Inferno) only has 14 purchased.  They are finally doing Elm Place all residential which should be nice.  But now they will build 2, 70 stories residential towers?  I will believe it when the cranes are there.  :lol: 

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For $600 million, developer proposes garage, ‘fancy’ grocery and two 70-story residential towers for Pacific Plaza

http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/2014/05/for-600-million-developer-proposes-garage-fancy-grocery-and-two-70-story-residential-towers-for-pacific-plaza.html/

Back to Sarimsakci’s proposal, which he says will cost $600 million and involve a public-private partnership that involves the city becoming a “20 percent partner in the deal.” That right there might be a sticking point: City officials killed an earlier proposal involving an underground parking structure when they told Tower Petroleum and, for now, Corrigan Tower owner John Kirtland they didn’t want to be in the parking-lot business.

 

ROFL   LOVE the renderings.  

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If this is $600 million I am really interested about the rumored $2 billion project in downtown Houston.

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Park Board split over whether Dallas or a developer should pay for ‘top priority’ Pacific Plaza in downtown
 
 
 
 
There are, for now, three proposals to develop the long-proposed three-acre Pacific Plaza park on what’s currently a 300-or-so spot downtown Dallas parking lot bound by North St. Paul, Live Oak and North Harwood streets. Developer Shawn Todd has a $100-million plan that includes a sprawling eight-level parking structure stretching over Pacific Avenue. Mukemmel “Mike” Sarimsakci’s $600-million proposal calls for planting two massive towers on the proposed park. And former Dallas City Council member Ron Natinsky wants to bury a mechanical parking garage beneath the park, at a price tag not yet made public.
 
PacificPlazaProposals.jpg
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YOUZA!  should these gorgeous concepts ever reach a stage as per reality.. dallas shall indeed head straight into the stratosphere!  there would be no stopping them.  they would certainly look at houston.. as second class, PERIOD!  dallas, always seems to out build, out conceptualize, and even out class houston upon so many levels.  (even ESPN has ESPN DALLAS) and they could care less about houston.   it is indeed high time for houston to rise above our "blue collar" image, and start striving as per the upper echelons of excellence.  the world, always seems to know and care about dallas this, and dallas that....

 

houston, needs to shed it's ultra conservative mindset, aura, image, mystique..  and allow for itself to become the world class city that "sam houston" could only imagine.  i am sick and tired of looking up to dallas.. as the glamour centerpiece of texas.  AREN'T WE THE FOURTH LARGEST CITY IN AMERICA?  why do i have to constantly remind myself of this very fact!  i am extremely happy for dallas.  the big city up north.. seems to overcome any form(s) of enduring adversity.. to continue to strive as per excellence upon innovation, culture, and everything that is big in texas.  it makes me angry that the city of houston..  our wonderful fair city that i love, and constantly brag about (all over the world to others) just cannot seem "stand up straight" or so to speak.  no matter what comes in our direction upon innovation, glamour, economic strength.. we always seem to be lagging, dragging, or nagging to the point of no return.  this simply has to change!

Edited by monarch

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It's not a supertall. Meaning Dallas isn't getting anything I'd care for Houston to urgently get.

Nothing to envy here.

Although monarch, your stance is quite perplexing to say the least. I'm also happy for Dallas. It's our sister city and I wish them success at everything they do. No ill feelings for the Big D from me. It's becoming a better Dallas than any point in its history and it's something to be proud of. At the end of the day monarch, we're the city with 2 supertalls already, we're the city with OVER 110 highrises proposed right now, we're the worlds 10th richest city (per capita income), we're the city with 16 foreign flag carriers with 2 more that seem committed to entering our market (Transaero and EVA), we're the city getting the Spaceport (with tenants already secured), we're the hotspot food capital of TX, we're the most diverse city in the entire region.

What I'm getting at is that Dallas and Houston have so many things to take notes on off each other, things we can all learn. Houston's no second tier TX city.

Edited by Sellanious Caesar
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It's not a supertall. Meaning Dallas isn't getting anything I'd care for Houston to urgently get.

Nothing to envy here.

Although monarch, your stance is quite perplexing to say the least. I'm also happy for Dallas. It's our sister city and I wish them success at everything they do. No ill feelings for the Big D from me. It's becoming a better Dallas than any point in its history and it's something to be proud of. At the end of the day monarch, we're the city with 2 supertalls already, we're the city with OVER 110 highrises proposed right now, we're the worlds 10th richest city (per capita income), we're the city with 16 foreign flag carriers with 2 more that seem committed to entering our market (Transaero and EVA), we're the city getting the Spaceport (with tenants already secured), we're the hotspot food capital of TX, we're the most diverse city in the entire region.

What I'm getting at is that Dallas and Houston have so many things to take notes on off each other, things we can all learn. Houston's no second tier TX city.

Beautifully written caesar, sometimes people do forget about the other wonders and fortunes we have right before our eyes! Also, I didn't know the spaceport had secured tenants! Where could I find more info on that?

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Beautifully written caesar, sometimes people do forget about the other wonders and fortunes we have right before our eyes! Also, I didn't know the spaceport had secured tenants! Where could I find more info on that?

Welcome Nevada based Sierra Nevada Corporation.

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_25541476/sierra-nevada-signs-agreement-houston-spaceport-dream-chaser

Only thing left to do is get that federal approval. The hard part (getting a tenant) is over at least.

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Great job dallas if only we could get our own soon!

 

Our own what? Renderings of fantasy buildings that are very unlikely to ever be built?  ;-)

 

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Your right they are in fantasy land.  I just flew back there is nothing going on there.  With 30% empty buildings downtown and no growth a developer would have be insane!  A lot of people overlook Fort Worth.  I had a better time there, downtown is very nice. 

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Your right they are in fantasy land.  I just flew back there is nothing going on there.  With 30% empty buildings downtown and no growth a developer would have be insane!  A lot of people overlook Fort Worth.  I had a better time there, downtown is very nice. 

 

 

The proposed towers are residential, no?  Residential development in Dallas' CBD is quite active so I am not sure what you mean by "no growth."  See Downtown Dallas running out of empty buildings. Obviously, the proposed towers are just fantasy for the moment, but the fact that one of the more forlorn sections of Dallas' CBD is the subject of developer attention says good things about the market in Dallas.

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My God, I have never seen a bunch of haters like this in my life! When I hear about proposed buildings in Houston, I don't sit there and say "It will never happen." I'm happy for any city in Texas that gets a new skyscraper announcement.

Edited by Dallaz
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My God, I have never seen a bunch of haters like this in my life! When I hear about proposed buildings in Houston, I don't sit there and say "It will never happen." I happy for any city in Texas that gets a new skyscraper announcement.

You just need to learn to ignore nativehoustonion. Other than that I really didn't see too much Dallas hating.

The first rendering looks pretty impressive. I'd love to see upscale residential towers like that in uptown houston.

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The proposed towers are residential, no? Residential development in Dallas' CBD is quite active

How is Museum Tower doing now?

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Anything for Texas is good.  I believe it when the cranes are up.  The Museum Tower is a shame.  I cannot believe the it was funding by the firefighters union.  They were so desperate to build it and make a profit.  There is only 14 bought and they go for $1,000,000 each.  It is now the Towering Inferno because it burns everything around it.

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Actually, there's a shortage of luxury condo towers in the core. That's why Harwood is starting the Bleu Ciel

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I'm sorry but I just don't think those things will get built. Monarch is crying that Dallas builds this and that, has he seen what is actually going on in Houston? We have projects that are actually going up. Some really good projects. What is going up in downtown Dallas to be jealous of?

Edited by HoustonIsHome

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The renderings remind me of CityCenter in Las Vegas.  A bit too flashy for my taste, but nevertheless would be a nice addition to any US city.  I'm a Houston booster, but I am also glad to see Dallas prosper and get nice developments.  For Houstonians it helps make our sister cities nearby more fun to visit.

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I love seeing what's going on in Dallas and Austin, I'm a Texas booster, so it's good to see these developments. Now if only San Antonio could also join the fun and start getting some new taller buildings at least

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I love seeing what's going on in Dallas and Austin, I'm a Texas booster, so it's good to see these developments. Now if only San Antonio could also join the fun and start getting some new taller buildings at least

 

I agree, I am a big time Texas booster. I am an American booster as well but when it comes to my State I'm a big time booster. And I agree it would be nice to see San Antonio get some new towers, even if its just a few in the core so that it could have a more established skyline. But as long as San Antonio keeps making its core more walkable and dense, I'm good.

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Anything for Texas is good.  I believe it when the cranes are up.  The Museum Tower is a shame.  I cannot believe the it was funding by the firefighters union.  They were so desperate to build it and make a profit.  There is only 14 bought and they go for $1,000,000 each.  It is now the Towering Inferno because it burns everything around it.

Look at this

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TVKl4Q_JBU#t=16

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