Why Casual Visitors To Houston Area Skip Downtown

[Kirzania]

I heard that Philly's city center is actually doing very well, while the rest of the city is not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Philly's center is also older than our country. It's a national landmark, so to speak. Independence Hall, the Liberty Bell, not to mention Edgar Allen Poe's grave, St. George's, the Arts Museum, standing on Rocky's footprints, the vicinity of NYC... Well, ok. Just the history alone is what attracts people to go there all the time. Houston's history is pretty limited to "Texas History" more than US History, if you get my drift. We Texans get excited about San Jacinto the same way America gets excited about Valley Forge (or Philly, perhaps?).

[RedScare]

I agree. My laughter was not meant to impugn a great historical, American city. I just found it humorous that the poster suggested that downtown was "broke down", while comparing it to a 250 year old downtown. If anything, Houston's downtown is too NEW.

BTW, only Travis and Caroline Streets remain to be completed in the street repaving program. On Travis, only 3 blocks of street paving remains. Curbs and sidewalks will take a bit longer.

[Kirzania]

I agree.  My laughter was not meant to impugn a great historical, American city.  I just found it humorous that the poster suggested that downtown was "broke down", while comparing it to a 250 year old downtown. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heh, Red. I figured that's why you were laughing. I didn't think you were knocking on Philly. I was just expanding upon Vic's comment. There's no reason for Philly's downtown to do poorly - there's too much tourism. The rest of the city is ... understandable if you want to say it's "broken down." All those poor rowhomes which have been neglected used to be High Society. I'm sorry.. I should've stated that in my previous post. It's too early in the morning and I'm only half way through my coffee.

:sigh: It's far too hard to compare us with other cities, unless it's DFW or San Antonio or maybe Phoenix (this is NOT an invitation for Dallas (or *) vs. Houston comments!)

[skwatra]

Uptown is twice as vibrant then downtown right now, and still building. I love uptown, cause things there stays going almost 24hrs. Downtown is shut down at 6-7pm on weekdays, and 12-2am on weekends.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

can you guys enlighten me on what to do uptown? i'm mainly talking about going out at night to bars/clubs. seems like the places there are more spread out, nothing like main downtown.

whenever i have friends in town, i take them to kemah, the space center if they're interested, galleria/waterwall during the day, and we got out one night in the village, one night downtown usually. i haven't really thought about going out uptown, it would be nice to go someplace that's vibrant all the time. visitors always mention how downtown is so dead outside of weekend nights from 11-3am.

but they do have a blast downtown, we get a cheap hotel, hit specs for some deli food and liquor, then hit the clubs. the problem is, the next day everything is closed and there's not one person on the streets.

[sevfiv]

i feel like some are making it seem like a big clown (maybe tilman?) should pop out and hold their hands to all the things to do here (while circus music plays in the background)...

houston has alot to offer, and may be humble about it.

i would imagine that many visitors would rather stay downtown/neartown, than the suburbs - i would think commuting in a new/different city (esp. houston) would be scarier than anything else...

[pineda]

I went to a new restaurant opening in downtown Houston the other day. I used to work downtown 10-15 years ago, and only visit sporadically since then, so things that others take for granted sometimes take me by surprise these days. Case in point, I wanted to take my daughter to the restroom to wash her hands before eating our meal. I was informed that this brand-new million-dollar restaurant had no public facilities. They told us to go next door to the office building on Main. I did, and the two women guards at the desks, who put their hands on their guns (!) when I approached them with my daughter, told me that not only could I not use their facilities, but demanded to know who tole (?) me that right now. While they were arguing amongst themselves, we went down into the Tunnel area, asked around, no facilities, and finally went into Foley's. Finally found someone who worked there and asked them where the bathrooms were. After looking us up and down, told us to go to the fifth floor. When I asked if that was the only bathroom available, she said yes. Went there, it was closed for cleaning (!) After waiting for about five minutes and listening to the cleaning woman talking and singing to herself, we found another clerk who said there was another bathroom on the fourth floor. We went there, it was open, had the cheapest toilet paper (see-through) that I've ever seen, and of course, no soap, no paper towels. After all this, my daughter was tired of "seeing Houston" and just wanted to go home. Walking back to our car, we saw a HPD cop back his car into the space in front of ours and get out just as we were approaching our car. He asked if this was our car, we said yes, and I asked if there was a problem. We were in a spot that had 2-hour parking and had only been there for an hour. He said he noticed that our meter was about to expire, in about 7 minutes (!). I wanted to scream at him and tell him about what we had just been through, but didn't want to "tour" the new downtown jail as well. We left quickly, and unfortunately, my daughter who has not had much exposure to downtown Houston left with a bad taste in her mouth and has absolutely no desire to return. BTW, if the "no public restroom" idea is to keep the homeless people away, it ain't working! I almost forgot, one good thing, we had no probs with da train...

[YakuzaIce]

Sounds like a bad day. It seems odd that the guards would go for their guns when a father and daughter walked in.

Has anyone else had a bad experience? The security guards downtown are kind of odd. One time I was taking pics across the street from 1000 main, and the guard left her post inside the building just to walk across the street and yell at me. But that is the worst that has ever happened to me, which is not bad.

[N8TIV]

I keep reiterating this: Downtown Houston's residential population hardly exists.

You won't have a thriving culture unless you have people that live nearby. Hotels wont do it, the skyline district won't do it, Main St. won't do it. The theaters and Minute Maid Park, and Toyota Center do it on nights of the event. They create imported foot traffic.

Downtown Houston has approximately 4 - 5,000 permanent residents (not including the homeless) which is incredible when you think of cities like Chicago that have something like 150,000 downtown residents.

Uptown vs Downtown: Business is thriving in Uptown. Lots of businesses, but also lots of permanent residents in and around the area. Downtown: Property values are high, but why hasn't anyone had the nuts to build? It's a chicken and egg scenario. Who ever is in charge of developing that lot on Texas and Main, they need to give that duty to someone that knows what they are doing. A high rise residential would be a great start to creating some culture. It's really a shame to see abandoned buildings right across from Minute Maid.

[MidtownCoog]

Downtown is just one piece of the puzzle that makes Houston Houston.

What you are looking for downtown might not be there, but I guarnetee its not far away.

For the most part, downtown is still massive office parks for corporations.

And why suffer living downtown, when you can live in Midtown, which feels a lot more like a neighborhood.

[Kirzania]

Has anyone else had a bad experience?  The security guards downtown are kind of odd.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it stems from no one taking them seriously. I'm sure there are quite a few retired cops working those security jobs and then there are the people that take those jobs to empower themselves.

There's one guy at Allen Center who takes his job far too seriously. Twice I've gone into the swing drive to wait and taken the last "open spot" on the left side of the drive. This spot just happened to involve the crosswalk. The first time, I blocked it completely and the second time I was maybe a foot? into it. Both times I've been lectured that I need to move my vehicle or be fined? because I'm blocking the crosswalk. Thankfully, both of these times, I wasn't there long enough for him to 'write me up' or whatever. But when there's no place else to go... I mean give me a break.

This isn't a major road here. It's across their swing drive. I've never actually seen anyone cross the swing drive on the crosswalk. I've seen this same guard tell at least three other people the same thing. It's not just a polite "please move your car;" he gets upset.

[sevfiv]

It's really a shame to see abandoned buildings right across from Minute Maid.

hopefully Mr. Smith will keep the Ben Milam renovations going - but even after, who knows if anything will go there. it took what - 20 years for him to get this far? UGH

I was informed that this brand-new million-dollar restaurant had no public facilities.

as far as restrooms - aren't restaurants required to have them? (not public - but for patrons). and especially for a child! what jackasses!

[MidtownCoog]

What about Hakeeem?

I heard he's quite the abandoned buildling slum lord.

[pineda]

as far as restrooms - aren't restaurants required to have them? (not public - but for patrons). and especially for a child! what jackasses!

I asked one of the servers at the restaurant why they had no public facilities for us to wash up in since we had just come from outside, and that it didn't seem very sanitary to not have facilities available to do so. He said it had to do with the high cost of real estate (!?) in downtown Houston, which made me wonder how many other restaurants are using this excuse not to include bathrooms. I then asked the server where the staff went to use the bathroom, and he said there was a sink for them in the kitchen to wash their hands in, but for restrooms, they too had to first leave the restaurant, which to me would seem odd to leave while you're carrying large amounts of money on you to walk around downtown Houston in search of a bathroom. What happens to your customers while you're off in search of a bathroom? How do managers deal with disappearing waitstaff? The whole situation seemed pretty ludicrous to me...

On a side note, as a juxtaposition to this situation, the Woodlands Mall is like night and day as far as friendliness and helpfullness of its' staff. The Woodlands has tourist-helpers, for lack of a better word, just like the San Antonio Riverwalk does. If these uniformed "helpers" notice someone looking lost, they walk up to them and ask if they need help finding something. It's a small thing, but when you're in an unfamiliar place, it's a very helpful thing to have. It also has a very visible security force in place with the cops on horseback patrolling the mall. Besides having my own personal HPD officer to help me get on my way (HA!) I didn't notice a lot of security, but I did notice lots of homeless people laying on sidewalks. One poor woman we saw at the fountains near the train was in a soiled hospital gown and dirty socks just walking into the water and then stepping back as the train approached. I wanted to call 9-1-1 before she killed herself, but didn't have a cellphone and didn't ever see any cops in the vicinity. All in all, a very strange day in downtown Houston...

Overall, I would say that downtown Houston has its' act together as far as being a "place of business" and that regular downtown office workers understand and probably like the way things run downtown, but as far as a tourism destination, I would say downtown still has a way to go before it's tourist friendly, which is probably just fine with the people who work there on a regular basis. No streets clogged with clueless tourists, wandering around, taking photo after photo, asking stupid questions like "Where are the public restroom facilities located?", taking all the tables in downtown eateries and all the parking spaces. So, that's probably just as well, I guess, but if Houston aims to be a tourist destination, I hate to say this, but it could take some tips from places like the Woodlands and San Antonio. Make it "visibly" safer with uniformed officers on horseback, bikes or just walking around. Have paid city staffers (who are friendly, not hostile or intimidating) to help clueless visitors find their way around. Maybe that's already happening, I wouldn't know, but where I was, there was none of that. Just my two cents, FWIW......

[Kirzania]

What restaurant was this, pineda?

[MidtownCoog]

Pineda,

With all due respect, downtown is not Disney Land. There is really nothing to see. Nothing at all. Oh maybe MMP and TOYO, but it's just office parks for corporations.

And FWIW, please call the City Health Department about the restaurants without restrooms. Sounds like they are in violation of code.

[pineda]

In my best Law & Order voice:

"I'm not at liberty to divulge that information at this time..."

But, next time, you walk into an downtown Houston eating establishment (especially newer ones), ask if they provide public restroom facilities for their patrons....

Something tells me that this is a common practice not to provide them in downtown Houston, but I don't know why. Is it because of plumbing/sanitary sewer issues?

[Subdude]

Reading what you say about downtown compared to the Woodlands Mall, I wonder if anyone from the Downtown District or similar downtown organizations ever stumble on this site. They should pass your post to their members.

[MidtownCoog]

Downtown District or similar downtown organizations

And therin lies the problem.

There are at least five competing downtown organizations.

I am on an email distro for most of them.

[RedScare]

I eat in downtown restaurants every day of the week. Although, sometimes a little small, if it is grandfathered prior to ADA, every restauarant and bar I've been in, and I've been in most of them, has restroom facilities for its PATRONS. If you were just trying to use the facilities without eating there, they are entitled, and often do, refuse. No restaurant can get a Certificate of Occupancy without meeting restroom requirements.

Office buildings do not generally allow people in their buildings without business there. Sorry, if you don't understand why.

Parking. Let me dispel some myths. HPD does not give out parking tickets. They DO have cars towed from illegal spots, IF it disrupts traffic flow. Parking is free after 6 pm, except in valet zones, taxi zones, police vehicle zones, and that area around MMP during games. Read the signs. FWIW, parking officers do not currently work on Saturday, so I have never paid to park on a Saturday.

Downtown is urban. Urban appeals to the adventurous. It is not meant to appeal to those who want a parking space next to their mall. Because of its design and purpose, downtown will never be this. It is also not built to accomodate kids, Aquarium notwithstanding. That is not the target market. In fact, most of those that frequent downtown establishments LIKE the fact that it is not Uptown and not Woodlands Mall, myself included. Most of the downtown improvement districts are looking for a way to provide restroom facilities for those who are not frequenting a restaurant. It is not a simple solution.

Overall, yes, downtown workers do like the improvement over the downtown of 10-20 years ago. We like where it is going, too. And, I might add, for those of you who seldom come down here, it IS a tourist destination. I meet them everyday. They're easy to pick out. They are the ones looking in the sky, reading the helpful downtown map kiosks, and asking me directions. Some even have kids, though most are couples. Downtown DOES have cops on horseback AND bicycles. I joked with 3 of them yesterday, 2 on horseback and 1 on a bike. Downtown also has "ambassadors in teal blue and yellow uniforms to give directions.

Downtown is not a mall. Please don't try to make it one.

[sevfiv]

Parking.

[dbigtex56]

pineda, sorry you and your daughter had such an unpleasant introduction to downtown Houston. There's so much to see there.

May I suggest a walking tour? You seem like someone who has a healthy appreciation for architecture, and these structured tours are safe, pleasant and informative.

[pineda]

I eat in downtown restaurants every day of the week. Although, sometimes a little small, if it is grandfathered prior to ADA, every restauarant and bar I've been in, and I've been in most of them, has restroom facilities for its PATRONS. If you were just trying to use the facilities without eating there, they are entitled, and often do, refuse. No restaurant can get a Certificate of Occupancy without meeting restroom requirements.

Office buildings do not generally allow people in their buildings without business there. Sorry, if you don't understand why.

Parking. Let me dispel some myths. HPD does not give out parking tickets. They DO have cars towed from illegal spots, IF it disrupts traffic flow. Parking is free after 6 pm, except in valet zones, taxi zones, police vehicle zones, and that area around MMP during games. Read the signs. FWIW, parking officers do not currently work on Saturday, so I have never paid to park on a Saturday.

Downtown is urban. Urban appeals to the adventurous. It is not meant to appeal to those who want a parking space next to their mall. Because of its design and purpose, downtown will never be this. It is also not built to accomodate kids, Aquarium notwithstanding. That is not the target market. In fact, most of those that frequent downtown establishments LIKE the fact that it is not Uptown and not Woodlands Mall, myself included. Most of the downtown improvement districts are looking for a way to provide restroom facilities for those who are not frequenting a restaurant. It is not a simple solution.

Overall, yes, downtown workers do like the improvement over the downtown of 10-20 years ago. We like where it is going, too. And, I might add, for those of you who seldom come down here, it IS a tourist destination. I meet them everyday. There easy to pick out. They are the ones looking in the sky, reading the helpful downtown map kiosks, and asking me directions. Some even have kids, though most are couples. Downtown DOES have cops on horseback AND bicycles. I joked with 3 of them yesterday, 2 on horseback and 1 on a bike. Downtown also has "ambassadors in teal blue and yellow uniforms to give directions.

Downtown is not a mall. Please don't try to make it one.

Once again, we disagree, on many points, but no surprise there...

First of all, I was eating in the restaurant I was talking about, I didn't wander in off the street. And guess what, they DON'T have restrooms for their patrons, no matter the Certificate of Occupancy codes say.

Number two, the office building was connected to the restaurant, so again, I didn't walk in off the street.

Number three, I did read the signs for parking, I'm not illiterate. I had another hour to be there, I was not blocking traffic and and it wasn't in any special "zone".

Number four, I understand it's "urban" and I don't mind walking anywhere. I never said I parked anywhere close to the restaurant at all, you misinterpreted that on your own.

I also think you're dead wrong in assuming that those in charge of the visitor's bureau or whatever in downtown Houston don't want it to appeal to children or those who go to malls. Tourism is good for ANY city, and to think otherwise is very strange.

I'm happy for you that you had such an enjoyable day, though, joking with the cops on horseback and on bike. I guess I just didn't see any because you had them all so busy listening to your delightful banter, which IS so engaging.....

[RedScare]

sevfiv:

Why did you pick the one part of my quote with a misspelling in it?

[pineda]

pineda, sorry you and your daughter had such an unpleasant introduction to downtown Houston. There's so much to see there.

May I suggest a walking tour? You seem like someone who has a healthy appreciation for architecture, and these structured tours are safe, pleasant and informative.

Thanks for the suggestion, I have done this before, but I have not taken the kids, so this would be great idea. (although, if I had a lot of money, I'd rather see it by air...)

[RedScare]

Once again, we disagree, on many points, but no surprise there...

First of all, I was eating in the restaurant I was talking about, I didn't wander in off the street. And guess what, they DON'T have restrooms for their patrons, no matter the Certificate of Occupancy codes say.

Number two, the office building was connected to the restaurant, so again, I didn't walk in off the street.

Number three, I did read the signs for parking, I'm not illiterate. I had another hour to be there, I was not blocking traffic and and it wasn't in any special "zone".

Number four, I understand it's "urban" and I don't mind walking anywhere. I never said I parked anywhere close to the restaurant at all, you misinterpreted that on your own.

I also think you're dead wrong in assuming that those in charge of the visitor's bureau or whatever in downtown Houston don't want it to appeal to children or those who go to malls. Tourism is good for ANY city, and to think otherwise is very strange.

I'm happy for you that you had such an enjoyable day, though, joking with the cops on horseback and on bike. I guess I just didn't see any because you had them all so busy listening to your delightful banter, which IS so engaging.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At least there wasn't any MOLD, was there?

I meant to state that my post was not in direct response to yours, since I was not present during your encounters. Sorry 'bout that.

As to the restrooms, you were told wrong, no doubt about it. The restaurant MUST have restroom access. If you'd like to PM me, I'll go on a stealth mission to see what the problem is. Come to think of it, I think I may know. I ate at a new place yesterday, where you have to go into the bldg. to use a restroom...but it is the same bldg.

[sevfiv]

i ate at a place where you had to exit into the surrounding building and walk down the hall to a restroom. but the restaurant had their own set of keys for access after-hours.

and about the typo - shh...no one will notice - i can almost promise...heh

[dbigtex56]

  I ate at a new place yesterday, where you have to go into the bldg. to use a restroom...but it is the same bldg.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What!? No pissoir?

[RedScare]

Chipotle and Napoli both have this setup. Chipotle, you go into the Rice lobby and use the restroom there. Napoli is in the lobby of it's building as well.

[MidtownCoog]

I eat lunch downtown all the time as well, and for the most part, it sucks.

Where are the good eats?

And please don't say Treebeards.

[sevfiv]

i personally have liked market square bar and grill (between warren's and treebeard's, i believe)

and if you're in a hurry or need more grease, the burger king in the pillot building is...different...