POST: Mixed-Use Development At 401 Franklin St.

[Urbannizer]

On 3/27/2018 at 11:55 AM, marstrose said:

RFQs to GC's have been released and a building permit is being filed this week. Powers Brown is the architect. They are pursuing history tax credits as a funding source for this project. 

 

Application has also been filed with the National Register of Historic Places

 

http://www.thc.texas.gov/public/upload/preserve/national_register/draft_nominations/Houston Downtown Post Office SBR Draft.pdf

 

 

[marstrose]

Below are the most recent renderings from Lovett. 

 

The 530,000 s.f. former headquarters of the USPS sits on approximately 16 acres of downtown real estate

located at the intersection of I-10, I-45, Buffalo Bayou and the Theatre District. The 1936 Building on the

southeast corner (“1936 Building”) consists of two floors and ties to the 1960’s two story sorting facility

(“1962 Building”) which boasts almost 5 acres of rooftop. These two buildings consist of two different floor

elevations whose connection will pose an interesting design and construction challenge. A 5-story office

building located front and center on the site (“Central Office Tower”) will be updated to office or hospitality

with panoramic views of Buffalo Bayou and Downtown Houston. Currently, the site will hold close to 1,000

surface parking spaces.

[Timoric]

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Edited July 12, 2019 by Timoric

[Reporter]

So far, this is doing nothing for me.

[MarathonMan]

11 minutes ago, Reporter said:

So far, this is doing nothing for me.

I agree.  Underwhelming.  But most development in Houston skews safe, unassuming and unrisky.

[houstontexasjack]

8 hours ago, Timoric said:

No rendering of the outside? This is starting to feel like a wasted opportunity to use the largest contiguous develop-able plot in Downtown Houston where the ugly old building stays. I would much rather see everything on the site gone and make it a park till a better idea comes along like a rail terminal for the Texas bullet train.

I, too, have fantasized about a rail terminal for the bullet train here—in particular, something akin to the Salesforce Tower in San Francisco over a transit hub.

[Urbannizer]

Website launched: http://posthtx.com/

[HoustonIsHome]

Let's face it; mass transit like bullet trains work best if it is in conjunction with other transit options.

 

The biggest mistake they will make is not stopping downtown. That 290 terminal is nice in paper but less practical than a downtown location. The web of public transit from downtown is so fast it's just unimaginable that the terminal won't be in the thick of all of that. 

 

There is a reason why the word Central usually preceded the word Station in many terminal names.

 

NASA tourist numbers were never good because it is not convenient to get to via PT.

 

Getting to downtown from most areas is easy.

Getting to 610 and 290 is never easy. Not even by car.

 

The Post office site with Greyhound, MegaBus, light rail and Metro buses connections would be an awesome development for Houston.

 

Imagine you are in Dallas heading to Houston for a football game. It would be nice if you could hop on DART, zip down to Houston, hop on the Red line at UHD down to the Stadium.

 

Another thing we should consider is impression.

Stepping off a train in downtown and soaking up your first experience with Houston is a lot different than first experience being a less attractive area out of the way area.

 

Coming in from Hobby has improved but still it's horrible. Coming from IAH isn't much better either. The bus goes through greenspoint and then through billboard corridor down 45.

 

But my biggest worry is accessability. 

[Houston19514]

18 minutes ago, HoustonIsHome said:

Let's face it; mass transit like bullet trains work best if it is in conjunction with other transit options.

 

The biggest mistake they will make is not stopping downtown. That 290 terminal is nice in paper but less practical than a downtown location. The web of public transit from downtown is so fast it's just unimaginable that the terminal won't be in the thick of all of that. 

 

There is a reason why the word Central usually preceded the word Station in many terminal names.

 

NASA tourist numbers were never good because it is not convenient to get to via PT.

 

Getting to downtown from most areas is easy.

Getting to 610 and 290 is never easy. Not even by car.

 

The Post office site with Greyhound, MegaBus, light rail and Metro buses connections would be an awesome development for Houston.

 

Imagine you are in Dallas heading to Houston for a football game. It would be nice if you could hop on DART, zip down to Houston, hop on the Red line at UHD down to the Stadium.

 

Another thing we should consider is impression.

Stepping off a train in downtown and soaking up your first experience with Houston is a lot different than first experience being a less attractive area out of the way area.

 

Coming in from Hobby has improved but still it's horrible. Coming from IAH isn't much better either. The bus goes through greenspoint and then through billboard corridor down 45.

 

But my biggest worry is accessability. 

 

I'm sure they would love to hear your proposals for raising the money to pay the additional cost to get from Northwest to downtown.

[cspwal]

Get Elon Musk to make a tunnel to downtown; it can double as emergency detention during a tropical storm

[BeerNut]

49 minutes ago, HoustonIsHome said:

Let's face it; mass transit like bullet trains work best if it is in conjunction with other transit options.

 

The biggest mistake they will make is not stopping downtown. That 290 terminal is nice in paper but less practical than a downtown location. The web of public transit from downtown is so fast it's just unimaginable that the terminal won't be in the thick of all of that. 

 

There is a reason why the word Central usually preceded the word Station in many terminal names.

 

NASA tourist numbers were never good because it is not convenient to get to via PT.

 

Getting to downtown from most areas is easy.

Getting to 610 and 290 is never easy. Not even by car.

 

The Post office site with Greyhound, MegaBus, light rail and Metro buses connections would be an awesome development for Houston.

 

Imagine you are in Dallas heading to Houston for a football game. It would be nice if you could hop on DART, zip down to Houston, hop on the Red line at UHD down to the Stadium.

 

Another thing we should consider is impression.

Stepping off a train in downtown and soaking up your first experience with Houston is a lot different than first experience being a less attractive area out of the way area.

 

Coming in from Hobby has improved but still it's horrible. Coming from IAH isn't much better either. The bus goes through greenspoint and then through billboard corridor down 45.

 

But my biggest worry is accessability. 

Not wanting to derail(har har) the PostHTX topic even more but wouldn't direct bus transfer to a Red line stop be sufficient.  I would love a east-west rail line extension to the TCR station but that will never happen.

[LBC2HTX]

They could make an east-west line starting at PostHTX on Franklin/Washington stopping at/near the Amtrak station and taking Washington (an ideal street for rail) all the way to the TCR station.

 

An alternative or additional route could head north on Yale/Heights/TC Jester then head west on 11th or 18th/20th. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by LBC2HTX

[kbates2]

If I travel for business to Dallas on the HSR, I would not really be up to catch a bus into town after that.  I would probably do what I already do from love and just Uber it.  Dallas travelers to Houston probably already Uber it from Hobby but I think what we are hoping for is a better form of transit.  Travelling to Dallas now will be better upon arrival than flying.  Travelling to Houston will be the same as flying.  You are in the middle of nowhere and on your own to get somewhere - unless you want to travel by city bus.  People usually don't want that.

[Houston19514]

57 minutes ago, kbates2 said:

If I travel for business to Dallas on the HSR, I would not really be up to catch a bus into town after that.  I would probably do what I already do from love and just Uber it.  Dallas travelers to Houston probably already Uber it from Hobby but I think what we are hoping for is a better form of transit.  Travelling to Dallas now will be better upon arrival than flying.  Travelling to Houston will be the same as flying.  You are in the middle of nowhere and on your own to get somewhere - unless you want to travel by city bus.  People usually don't want that.

 

Do you imagine that anything close to a majority of travelers from Dallas to Houston are destined  for downtown Houston?  Doubtful.  Even less likely that anywhere near a majority of Houston travelers are destined for downtown Dallas.  (Just over 5% of Houston's jobs are located downtown; Less than 4% of DFW's employment is in downtown Dallas). But even for those few who are destined for downtown Dallas, how do you imagine they will get from the TCR station to their destination (the vast majority of downtown Dallas destinations will be more than 1 mile from the station)?

 

Not sure how you conclude that travel to Dallas will be better than flying but Houston will be the same as flying.  Arriving in Dallas, you're still going to need to Uber to your destination (and for most DFW destinations, the TCR station will be a longer Uber ride than an airport; many Houston destinations will be much closer to the TCR station than they are to an airport).

 

FWIW, I would have preferred our station be at the post office site (and it would have been a much better site than the Dallas station site), but it just isn't feasible, and after a closer examination of the two stations' locations, I don't think the Dallas site is much of an advantage vs. Houston's.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Houston19514

[kbates2]

I imagine that a larger portion of Dallas to Houston travelers are destined for downtown than 290 and 610.  For those not destined for there, the portion destined for TMC, UH, Rice, etc., would be in a much better spot.  Those going elsewhere would be more conveniently located.

[Houston19514]

6 minutes ago, kbates2 said:

I imagine that a larger portion of Dallas to Houston travelers are destined for downtown than 290 and 610.  For those not destined for there, the portion destined for TMC, UH, Rice, etc., would be in a much better spot.  Those going elsewhere would be more conveniently located.

 

There is no question that, if cost were not a consideration, the post office site would be preferred over Northwest.  TCR has said as much themselves.  I don't think we end up in nearly as bad a position, compared to the Dallas station location, as you portray.  For the reasons I mentioned above.

[Houston19514]

Dup post

Edited May 19, 2018 by Houston19514

[Texasota]

The reality is that, in a city of this size, they're both reasonable locations for stations. And that's, in a perverse way, kind of the problem. This station will be reasonably convenient for a lot of people, but it won't be very convenient for those of us who live in and support the revitalization of the old city - downtown, midtown, "EADO", the museum district, Montrose, etc, and are probably *most* supportive of transit generally. And that just sucks. That doesn't mean that this isn't still worthwhile, it just means that a lot of the people who, in an ideal world, would be the loudest defenders of a project like this are going to feel a bit let down and like this is a "compromise" in the most pejorative sense.

[Brooklyn173]

I'm just curious. Has anyone ever done a population weighted 'center' of the Houston SMSA?

[Timoric]

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Edited July 12, 2019 by Timoric

[Brooklyn173]

Thx

[BeerNut]

12 hours ago, Timoric said:

I heard years ago it was already past the West Loop on a Left-Right but not Top-Bottom center.

I think this is based of 2010 Census data

[mattyt36]

The HSR will fail on its own--lack of transit won't be a contributing factor.  TNCs are perfectly adequate and indeed preferable to anyone buying a ticket on the HSR.

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

10 years ago the population center of Houston was at I-10 and Silber, where the Edwards cinema is

[IronTiger]

I don't see why it NEEDS to be a train station or anything like that. It has parking and a tower component, maybe a supermarket that the residential component could access without even the need to go outside, and/or a bunch of similar tenants, like trying to build a more-city center version of what MARQ*E was supposed to be, or a top-notch indoor farmer's market, with eclectic places to eat inside and handmade goods.

[HoustonIsHome]

Y'all are missing the point. 

 

The point is not locating the terminal at the center of population. The point is locating the terminal at the epicenter of transit so that they have immediate access to the rest of the metro. 

 

Park and Ride buses all head down town.

Metro rail branches from downtown.

The bus network webs from downtown.

 

Someone mentioned that they can just build a rail to downtown. But what if you are not heading that way?  

 

If in am going to westchase I would be highly irritated taking a rail 20 minutes east just bro hop on a bus to head back west. 

 

Now you guys will say well we can build a line from the terminal going to westchase. Ok so you are taking about a new route to down town and a new route to westchase but what if I'm going to greenspoint? Build a new route there too? The woodlands? Clear lake?  

 

I guess we are going to build a new transit system to connect this new hub? Doubt it.

The terminal is never going to be as great as you think it will be for anyone not intending to drive, get picked up, or take a cab. 

 

This Post location is good because the transportation hub is already built in

[H-Town Man]

1 hour ago, HoustonIsHome said:

Y'all are missing the point. 

 

The point is not locating the terminal at the center of population. The point is locating the terminal at the epicenter of transit so that they have immediate access to the rest of the metro. 

 

Park and Ride buses all head down town.

Metro rail branches from downtown.

The bus network webs from downtown.

 

Someone mentioned that they can just build a rail to downtown. But what if you are not heading that way?  

 

If in am going to westchase I would be highly irritated taking a rail 20 minutes east just bro hop on a bus to head back west. 

 

Now you guys will say well we can build a line from the terminal going to westchase. Ok so you are taking about a new route to down town and a new route to westchase but what if I'm going to greenspoint? Build a new route there too? The woodlands? Clear lake?  

 

I guess we are going to build a new transit system to connect this new hub? Doubt it.

The terminal is never going to be as great as you think it will be for anyone not intending to drive, get picked up, or take a cab. 

 

This Post location is good because the transportation hub is already built in

 

Great points. Also, not just the epicenter of transit, but the place that people most likely would want to visit, and the place where the most important businesses are.

 

Downtown, now that hotels have taken off and considering all there is to do (sports, conventions, nightlife, etc.) has probably passed Uptown as the place where most people would want to visit, and will only increase its lead in coming years. And downtown has the highest office rents anywhere in the city, which means that the most important firms are there. You wouldn't want the VIP types visiting those firms to have to wait for a bus or Uber in the area around Northwest Mall.

Edited June 21, 2018 by H-Town Man

[AREJAY]

Permit was issued for a 31M conversion on 06/25

Project No:	18034577
Date :	2018/06/25 00:00:00
USE :	(EPR) CONV. POST OFFICE TO MALL BLDG 1-5
Owner/Occupant :	*401 FRANKLIN STREET, LTD
Job Address :	401 FRANKLIN ST 77002
Valuation :	$ 31,000,000
Permit Type :	13
FCC Group :	Non-Residential Alteration
Buyer :	*401 FRANKLIN STREET, LTD
Address :	1520 OLIVER ST 77007
Phone :	(713) 293-6900

 

[kbates2]

Doesn't seem like a very large number for a project this size, I assume the $31m is just a 'phase 1'?

[j_cuevas713]

2 hours ago, kbates2 said:

Doesn't seem like a very large number for a project this size, I assume the $31m is just a 'phase 1'?

Maybe it seems small because they aren't building from the ground up, just renovating