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POST: 401 Franklin Post Office Site Redevelopment


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@H-Town Man I am not sure?  I mean if the structure of the Post Office is by itself the  architecturally significant element that deserves preservation, then why do we even debate the Astrodome?

Beggers cannot be choosers, since at this point we’re all beggers in this town when it comes to historic preservation.  It is a shame developers like Lovett didn’t exist a couple decades sooner.  If there had been more here with a thought towards preservation then perhaps we would have some of our old, great buildings: Sam Houston Coliseum, Robinson Public Warehouse, Foleys Downtown, Prudential Building et cetera.

Edited by arche_757
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On 12/20/2021 at 10:00 PM, arche_757 said:

@H-Town Man I am not sure?  I mean if the structure of the Post Office is by itself the  architecturally significant element that deserves preservation, then why do we even debate the Astrodome?

Beggers cannot be choosers, since at this point we’re all beggers in this town when it comes to historic preservation.  It is a shame developers like Lovett didn’t exist a couple decades sooner.  If there had been more here with a thought towards preservation then perhaps we would have some of our old, great buildings: Sam Houston Coliseum, Robinson Public Warehouse, Foleys Downtown, Prudential Building et cetera.

I don't know why there is even a debate about the Astrodome. I don't see why it is controversial to preserve. I am also pretty sure it would be a functioning tourist attraction right now if it were not for the Texans and the Rodeo. I think Ed Emmett was willing to take them on and Lina Hidalgo isn't. It's not a fight that most people would want to have in their first or second term as judge.

Some of those buildings you mention I am not sure pass cost/benefit analysis. Sam Houston Coliseum had some history but was pretty dated for its function. Location comes into play. New York is on its third or fourth iteration of Madison Square Garden. Some of those early iterations were pretty amazing structures with 100 times the history of Sam Houston Coliseum, but land on Madison Square is too precious a commodity to be taken up by a functionally obsolete arena (and yes, I do realize that the current MSG is not on Madison Square). POST might see the wrecking ball too at some point and I won't be chaining myself to the bulldozers.

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Hard to compare NYC historic buildings with our own.  Coliseum may be a bit of a stretch.  The others may seem odd, but considering how few large historical structures we have, not to mention those were all recently demolished with nothing replacing them.  *Foley’s being the exception.

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9 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

I don't know why there is even a debate about the Astrodome.

Because most people in Houston don't give one whit about the Astrodome. It was Emmett's pet project, but nobody else cared and just want it torn down because it serves no purpose, which is why every attempt at a referendum to spend money on the thing failed. Texas Stadium and the Georgia Dome were torn down with no fanfare at all and nobody misses them. Hidalgo just had the issue thrown in her lap because Emmett went to the level of getting the thing declared historic on his way out the door.

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Honestly I’m glad he did, and its a State Antiquities Landmark, meaning it can’t be altered without consent from the state. This is a rare opportunity to actually save one of the buildings that made us the city we are. We really need to evaluate the importance of the few remaining truly historic buildings we have left. We don’t have the “luxury” of tearing down any more history. People often argue that even Yankee Stadium was torn down but losing Yankee Stadium didn’t hurt NY because most of NYC is old and historic. 

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1 hour ago, Big E said:

Hidalgo just had the issue thrown in her lap because Emmett went to the level of getting the thing declared historic on his way out the door.

Read 'How the Astrodome was saved'.
"In 2014, the Astrodome became a National Historic Landmark on the National Register of Historic Places. Three years later, it became a State Antiquities Landmark."
(Hidalgo defeated Emmett in the November 2018 election. Please explain how Emmett had the Dome receive two landmark statuses retroactively while "on his way out the door".)

 

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14 hours ago, arche_757 said:

Hard to compare NYC historic buildings with our own.  Coliseum may be a bit of a stretch.  The others may seem odd, but considering how few large historical structures we have, not to mention those were all recently demolished with nothing replacing them.  *Foley’s being the exception.

Sam Houston Coliseum:Houston::3rd Madison Square Garden:New York

 

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POST will be having a NYE event with fireworks on the skylawn. Have to buy tickets, though. ($65) Probably would be insane without a paid entry
 

Eventbrite link

 

Also, I don’t remember seeing it here, but Common Desk is also going to be coming to POST in 2022. This seems like a really good location for them. They’re also set up in the ION. 

Edited by BEES?!
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  • 2 weeks later...

Oh no, I'm so sad to hear this. I hadn't seen Frank in about ten years, but he was a great kid. My son played basketball with him in HS. I remember taking a road trip with Frank Sr back in the late 90s to Dallas, to watch our kids play in a BB tourney.

He'll be missed. ☹️

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such a shame...apparently it was new years eve/day when the crash happened...it is sad that his life had to end and thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends

 

Edited by gene
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On 11/13/2021 at 9:57 PM, j_cuevas713 said:

I said the same thing about Amtrak when I was there. I love how it opened up a whole new part of downtown. It’s a side I’ve never explored or thought much about. I think many people were thinking the same thing about the station though. I could def see some sort of connection in the near future. 

Just listened to a presentation given by Kirby Liu earlier last year.  The concept of connecting to Amtrak is on their radar.  It sounds like, at least so far, they haven't been able to get Amtrak interested...  But are hopeful once they (Post) demonstrate some success...

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On 1/7/2022 at 10:30 AM, gene said:

Sad news. Thanks for sharing that. It said he was ejected, which almost always means no seatbelt. ☹️

What's odd is I read the KWHI newsfeed daily, as I spend most of my time in Brenham, and it's a great source of local news. I remember seeing that headline, but didn't click thru as a crash in La Grange didn't seem of much interest.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
9 hours ago, Amlaham said:

https://www.houston.org/news/quality-life-post-houston-aims-bring-global-experience-downtown

"POST Houston isn’t finished yet. Liu said the goal is to connect the rooftop park, which is open to the public, to Buffalo Bayou. Residential and office space is also not out of the question.."

 

I wonder how thats going to work, but based off of the job they did inside, I'm sure they will execute this well. Glad they don't plan on stopping!

Hmmm pedestrian bridge from the George Bush monument maybe? 

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5 hours ago, TrainTrak said:

Or a stairway from the plaza that can cross under Franklin and allow direct access to the trail along the bayou

image.png.d542db391cc38faa4618f778951aff37.png

This probably makes more sense. I was thinking of a connection to the literal rooftop 🤦🏻‍♂️

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On 2/2/2022 at 2:57 PM, Amlaham said:

https://www.houston.org/news/quality-life-post-houston-aims-bring-global-experience-downtown

"POST Houston isn’t finished yet. Liu said the goal is to connect the rooftop park, which is open to the public, to Buffalo Bayou. Residential and office space is also not out of the question.."

 

I wonder how thats going to work, but based off of the job they did inside, I'm sure they will execute this well. Glad they don't plan on stopping!

My vote is for a zipline down and ski lift gondola to get back up.

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4 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

I would love to see the plaza have a connection to the bayou and maybe redesign the plaza with an eye catching art installation representing Houston as a whole. 

An art installation that bulldozes itself... very Houston and I kinda like it.

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18 minutes ago, phillip_white said:

An art installation that bulldozes itself... very Houston and I kinda like it.

A giant bulldozer would be funny. Anyone remember the Spirt of Houston statue that was supposed to be built? There was a topic on this forum at one point I believe.

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7 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

A giant bulldozer would be funny. Anyone remember the Spirt of Houston statue that was supposed to be built? There was a topic on this forum at one point I believe.

Wasn't that thread mid 2000s? 😂 Lol

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3 hours ago, innerloop said:

I vote to excavate the entire plaza down to bayou level and have a bayou spur run under the street and come up to the front of the building like the San Antonio Convention Center.

henry-b-gonzalez-convention-center-standard.jpg

Obligatory "the bayou won't look like that."

 

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This is maybe the dumbest question ever asked by anyone, but... could it? Not that we ever would, but if the city decided that having the bayou look nice was important, is there any way you could do it? Put a giant Brita filter in the Galleria?

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5 minutes ago, Andrew Ewert said:

This is maybe the dumbest question ever asked by anyone, but... could it? Not that we ever would, but if the city decided that having the bayou look nice was important, is there any way you could do it? Put a giant Brita filter in the Galleria?

I’ve thought about this as well. I feel like all it would take it to dump a bunch of granite or some other type of rocks to help with filtering and reflection 

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1 hour ago, Fortune said:

Let's not forget that the SA river shown above is lined in cement. 

And it has damns on both ends which helps to minimize the amount of silt in it. They just pumped the water out and removed all the debris in it a couple weeks ago. They do this biannually.

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/01/25/cellphones-chairs-found-as-san-antonio-river-is-drained-cleaned/

Edited by hindesky
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17 hours ago, Andrew Ewert said:

This is maybe the dumbest question ever asked by anyone, but... could it? Not that we ever would, but if the city decided that having the bayou look nice was important, is there any way you could do it? Put a giant Brita filter in the Galleria?

One of the main points of present day environmentalism as well as landscape design is to be true and honest to what naturally exists and not try to enhance or improve upon it. Do not "teach the river a better course," or a better shade or color, for that matter. So I think this would fall into that category. Although the BBP has said that if we have better, more natural drainages leading into the bayou, much of the sediments that wash into it will be filtered out, and the water will be consequently less murky. More like black tea than chocolate milk, if you will.

 

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3 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

if we have better, more natural drainages leading into the bayou, much of the sediments that wash into it will be filtered out, and the water will be consequently less murky.

A few years ago ordinances were passed requiring developers to confine run-off from construction sites, which reduced the amount of silt going into the bayou. 
To me, Buffalo Bayou looks a little less murky than it used to. 
I've read historical accounts of what the bayou looked like in Houston's early days and at one time the water was fairly clear. Much of the silt came from natural erosion of its banks, which was minimal due to dense plant growth.

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1 hour ago, dbigtex56 said:

A few years ago ordinances were passed requiring developers to confine run-off from construction sites, which reduced the amount of silt going into the bayou. 
To me, Buffalo Bayou looks a little less murky than it used to. 
I've read historical accounts of what the bayou looked like in Houston's early days and at one time the water was fairly clear. Much of the silt came from natural erosion of its banks, which was minimal due to dense plant growth.

I suppose the best way to determine what the bayou is capable of is to visit another bayou in an undeveloped area of southeast Texas or southern Louisiana. I don't think any of them are especially clear. Translucent, maybe to some degree. I think Frederick Law Olmsted said that the first clear river going westward across Texas was the Colorado, and all the ones before that were muddy.

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as far as the historical accounts of the waters being fairly clear, that's directly from the Allen Brothers trying to sell people on Houston.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/See-how-Houston-was-marketed-way-back-in-1836-13188532.php#photo-16079012

Quote

There is no place in Texas more healthy, having an abundance of excellent spring water, and enjoying the sea breeze in all its freshness,

did development also kill the sea breeze? hahaha.

no digs at anyone, just any historical account of things is probably slanted based on the Allen Brother's original account, I mean, great that they got people to move here, cause it has turned into a great city, but any rumors about the actual waterways of Houston can't be trusted.

it's always been muddy. no amount of plant growth on the banks is going to change that. 

incidentally, the photos attached to that article are awesome. 

Edited by samagon
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/8/2022 at 4:19 PM, Andrew Ewert said:

This is maybe the dumbest question ever asked by anyone, but... could it? Not that we ever would, but if the city decided that having the bayou look nice was important, is there any way you could do it? Put a giant Brita filter in the Galleria?

I wish the Galleria could filter out that sewage smell that's been plaguing the parking garage for years.

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