Jump to content

Retail District Planned To Be Centered Around Dallas St.


Nole23

Recommended Posts

Good catch.  Please let that be for refurbishment of the trashy Main Food Store across from the Hillcorp building and next to 1010 Lamar.

 

Nothing a dump truck "accident" couldn't solve, though it would be easier if Lamar ran the other way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good catch. Please let that be for refurbishment of the trashy Main Food Store across from the Hillcorp building and next to 1010 Lamar.

I'm generally very anti-government, anti-regulation, anti-zoning, anti-state, what have you......but.....is there any clever way the city could "force" these crappy dollar stores and weave stores out of those retail slots? Perhaps by proxy, or some sort of new, bogus "regulation?" :)
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Macy's just announced the closure of some 36 stores this month, including several downtown sites. I'm just saying that holding out for Macy's return to downtown seems increasingly unlikely at this point.

Macy's does seem troubled. One visit to a Macy's in a mall told me why. I don't expect that they will be returning to downtown Houston but, one never knows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm generally very anti-government, anti-regulation, anti-zoning, anti-state, what have you......but.....is there any clever way the city could "force" these crappy dollar stores and weave stores out of those retail slots? Perhaps by proxy, or some sort of new, bogus "regulation?" :)

I'm pretty sure it's legislation like this that makes people anti-government.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The goal should more be to make downtown bustling and attractive enough that a different business (say Target with a urban concept) comes in and says "I want to lease this space and I'm willing to pay more than what the food mart is"

 

It's the market at work.  The government is best when it sticks to incentives (i.e. the DLI) and stays away from restrictions (building moratoriums, zoning, parking minimums)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure it's legislation like this that makes people anti-government.

 

Yep.

 

I'm of the opinion that the best bet is to price them out of the neighborhood by making everything around them really nice and someone with an idea for an alternative, more profitable use will sweep the owners off their feet.

 

Local public transit hubs in car dominant cities are not known to be savory places. Main Street Square seems to serve that purpose a bit.

Edited by Nate99
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The goal should more be to make downtown bustling and attractive enough that a different business (say Target with a urban concept) comes in and says "I want to lease this space and I'm willing to pay more than what the food mart is"

 

It's the market at work.  The government is best when it sticks to incentives (i.e. the DLI) and stays away from restrictions (building moratoriums, zoning, parking minimums)

I agree.

 

When I caught the train at Central Station (while watching Foley's/Macy's being destroyed), I used the convenience store a few times.  It's in business because people find it useful.  I don't blame them for the sketchy street scene.  

 

Sure, make the area a thriving retail center so that other retailers make better offers for the space.  In the meantime, let the store be run by people willing to be retailers downtown instead of begging for tax breaks or waiting for massive street reconstruction.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

the city is doing everything it can to force that owner to sell and there apparently have been several recent offers to purchase... we've heard that before but this time there is real impetus with all the renovations slated for the main street corridor over the next year. clearly that thing prints money, though.

 

btw i heard a well known and very familiar developer has won out on the sakowitz building...

Great so can you tell us who? Geez

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the city is doing everything it can to force that owner to sell and there apparently have been several recent offers to purchase... we've heard that before but this time there is real impetus with all the renovations slated for the main street corridor over the next year. clearly that thing prints money, though.

btw i heard a well known and very familiar developer has won out on the sakowitz building...

My guess is midway. That have a vested interest in that immediate area. Or Lovett. They have been doing tons of cool new stuff

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Probably a stupid question, but is the city just adding some trees and lights to enhance the pedestrian experience along Dallas Street? If so, why is this taking so long?

I attended a downtown business/resident meeting on this before construction ever started. There was a LOT of "stuff" that they wanted to do with utilities. I don't recall what but I remember thinking "wow, that is a lot of work....."

Page 7&8. http://downtownhouston.org/site_media/uploads/attachments/2015-03-06/150304_SDSI_Streetscape_Plan.pdf

I also seem to recall that construction was supposed to end in early spring 2016 (Feb/March) but I could be wrong.....

Edited by UtterlyUrban
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd imagine that the original schedule has been blown.  We've been a lot wetter than usual, and I wouldn't be surprised if they found various unexpected weird stuff that wasn't mapped - though one would hope that would be built into the schedule after the way such things busted earlier major street time lines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What accident idea? I don't know what you're talkin' about....

article-2182335-0CD82838000005DC-10_306x

 

God forbid something should happen. That's all I'm saying...

 

 

I'm probably alone on all this, but I enjoy some of the grittier aspects of downtown in certain pockets. Time Square used to be an interesting place to visit until they turned into Disney World. Ultimately I agree they will get priced out of the market, but I don't relish the idea of forcing these business out just so white people can feel safer. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

God forbid something should happen. That's all I'm saying...

 

 

I'm probably alone on all this, but I enjoy some of the grittier aspects of downtown in certain pockets. Time Square used to be an interesting place to visit until they turned into Disney World. Ultimately I agree they will get priced out of the market, but I don't relish the idea of forcing these business out just so white people can feel safer. 

I couldn't agree more. The 99 cent store off Main is a cool little store to find quick things. I mean you're in the city, and people want suburbia. I don't get that. I went to a concert recently at Toyota Center and it wasn't difficult to see the difference in those who live or grew up in the city and those who didn't. Some of those people looked terrified. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I couldn't agree more. The 99 cent store off Main is a cool little store to find quick things. I mean you're in the city, and people want suburbia. I don't get that. I went to a concert recently at Toyota Center and it wasn't difficult to see the difference in those who live or grew up in the city and those who didn't. Some of those people looked terrified. 

 

I grew up in the area and live downtown currently.  I wish the place was gone.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't know if it is the stores or the transit intersections, but I've never seen anyone OD'ing in the middle of the day as well as multiple public "domestic" violence episodes at any other corner in town. 

 

People shop in a number of places in town and don't have people reeking of their own feces shouting obscenities at them.  For a place that you want to be a retail district, grittiness is probably best left to memories.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

God forbid something should happen. That's all I'm saying...

I'm probably alone on all this, but I enjoy some of the grittier aspects of downtown in certain pockets. Time Square used to be an interesting place to visit until they turned into Disney World. Ultimately I agree they will get priced out of the market, but I don't relish the idea of forcing these business out just so *wealthy people can feel safer.

Fixed it for you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I lived Downtown for 7 years until a couple years ago, and it was a great comfort. It was good to grab a quick canned good or posterboard or whatever. The store continues to exist because there is an economic demand for it. Sorry, but Downtown just isn't ready for a Books-A-Million yet. Certain types of businesses can work and certain can't.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I lived Downtown for 7 years until a couple years ago, and it was a great comfort. It was good to grab a quick canned good or posterboard or whatever. The store continues to exist because there is an economic demand for it. Sorry, but Downtown just isn't ready for a Books-A-Million yet. Certain types of businesses can work and certain can't.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned this once, but this whole "Retail District Downtown" idea sounds a lot like what cities tried in the 1970s or 1980s to revive their dying downtown districts, either with glassy malls or pedestrian-only streets, and nothing worked. Best case scenario is that they ended up becoming glorified food courts (in fact, I'm sure that's what already happened to the Shops at Houston Center). The reason was that they were too difficult to get to, offered little what the existing malls in the suburbs didn't, and most importantly, weren't able to support their immediate neighborhoods. 

 

Downtown cannot support a full-sized department store, can barely support an outdoor mall of sorts, and can also barely support a supermarket. The nicer parts of the Inner Loop already have shopping districts like Lower Westheimer, Rice Village, the First Ward redevelopment, and others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure I mentioned this once, but this whole "Retail District Downtown" idea sounds a lot like what cities tried in the 1970s or 1980s to revive their dying downtown districts, either with glassy malls or pedestrian-only streets, and nothing worked. Best case scenario is that they ended up becoming glorified food courts (in fact, I'm sure that's what already happened to the Shops at Houston Center). The reason was that they were too difficult to get to, offered little what the existing malls in the suburbs didn't, and most importantly, weren't able to support their immediate neighborhoods. 

 

Downtown cannot support a full-sized department store, can barely support an outdoor mall of sorts, and can also barely support a supermarket. The nicer parts of the Inner Loop already have shopping districts like Lower Westheimer, Rice Village, the First Ward redevelopment, and others.

You do understand a lot of this has to do with the population living downtown right? With the immediate increase of people living in both downtown and midtown and with quick access via rail, this is far from some 70's attempt at a revival. 

Edited by j_cuevas713
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You do understand a lot of this has to do with the population living downtown right? With the immediate increase of people living in both downtown and midtown and with quick access via rail, this is far from some 70's attempt at a revival. 

Don't forget about the college students riding rails to spend their student loans.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't forget about the college students riding rails to spend their student loans.

Added Hotel rooms as well. The Houston Center Shops didn't work because they're on an isolated podium, servicing the office crowd like the tunnels. It will be interesting to see the HC's plan to correct this, which is completely the opposite of what they did when they built it.
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another key difference is the eras you mentioned were the height of what some deem "White flight ".WhIle the 2000,s have seen a near reverse with many young people and empty nesters opting to leave their big suburban homes for lofts and townhouses closer to city cores.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You do understand a lot of this has to do with the population living downtown right? With the immediate increase of people living in both downtown and midtown and with quick access via rail, this is far from some 70's attempt at a revival.

Of course it has to do with people living downtown. And yet, even the 2000s-era Houston Pavilions/GreenStreet, which does interact with the street level still struggles to attract retail space and converted it into office space. Even if downtown can support more retail, it may be a handful of stores (maybe a Target, if they're lucky). A full retail district is just going to end up looking like an embarrassment, especially if they start hyping it up like Dallas' Victory Park.

 

 

Don't forget about the college students riding rails to spend their student loans.

Wishful thinking. This is the type of "build it and they will come" mentality that doomed the centers of years ago. I don't know where U of H students go for general shopping, but I'll bet it's driving someplace more established. My cousin in law went to University of Houston, I'll ask her.

 

 

Added Hotel rooms as well. The Houston Center Shops didn't work because they're on an isolated podium, servicing the office crowd like the tunnels. It will be interesting to see the HC's plan to correct this, which is completely the opposite of what they did when they built it.

Hotels will probably make even less of an impact than apartment buildings.

 

Another key difference is the eras you mentioned were the height of what some deem "White flight ".WhIle the 2000,s have seen a near reverse with many young people and empty nesters opting to leave their big suburban homes for lofts and townhouses closer to city cores.

 

I'm pretty sure we've had the discussion before that the "young people moving to cities" was largely overhyped, and it was an older crowd moving to cities, but again, it just seems like a hard sell to justify all that to make a retail district. Did I say that downtown can't support more than convenience stores and fast foods? No. I just think a "retail district" just won't work given the amount of retail downtown and how it's done so far. You can make all sorts of excuses: "Future growth! The existing retail doesn't interact with street level enough! It's not the 1970s anymore, so therefore, it MUST work!", but that doesn't change the facts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ow, get well soon.

Had anyone else noticed the new LED street lights the City installed downtown? They provide so much more illumination than the old incandescent streetlights from before.

Also, at least on the HoB block, they are installing a ton of new work... errr... street lights as part of the new corridor. We shall not have to depend on the (expletive deleted) ice cream man's headlights for illumination anymore. ..lol

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure I mentioned this once, but this whole "Retail District Downtown" idea sounds a lot like what cities tried in the 1970s or 1980s to revive their dying downtown districts, either with glassy malls or pedestrian-only streets, and nothing worked. Best case scenario is that they ended up becoming glorified food courts (in fact, I'm sure that's what already happened to the Shops at Houston Center). The reason was that they were too difficult to get to, offered little what the existing malls in the suburbs didn't, and most importantly, weren't able to support their immediate neighborhoods. 

 

Downtown cannot support a full-sized department store, can barely support an outdoor mall of sorts, and can also barely support a supermarket. The nicer parts of the Inner Loop already have shopping districts like Lower Westheimer, Rice Village, the First Ward redevelopment, and others.

 

This post makes about as much sense as your ridiculous claims that a bridge carrying the traffic on the west side of downtown would be a "bridge to nowhere."

 

The only thing this plan has in common with the 70s and 80s revival attempts is that they both involve retail.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • The title was changed to Retail District Planned To Be Centered Around Dallas St.
  • The topic was locked
  • The topic was unlocked

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...