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Is Real Estate In The Heights Really This Hot


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Very different "feel" than the Heights, though. The curvy streets with limited entry/exit points and lots of space between houses all feel very suburban (Oak Forest feels the same way to me). I don't mean suburban as a pejorative; I think it's a lovely area, but if someone bought in the Heights for a certain "feel", it won't be duplicated here.  The largest width of frontage you tend to see in the Heights is 50 ft, often less with newer construction, and the ubiquitous front porches and lack (for the most part) of front-facing garages encourages interaction with neighbors rather than isolation from them.

 

Also, if you're commuting to NW Houston or the Energy Corridor, you have to cross the Galleria at rush hour to get there from Bellaire and West U, and access to downtown from the Heights is quicker as well.

 

I agree about the commute past the Galleria... but that should be alleviated a couple years from now when they widen 610.

 

As far as the "feel", I'd rather have a larger ranch house than a 2/2 "quaint" shack... but that's my opinion. Yes, Knollwood/Linkwood/etc. is more suburban... but it's in the middle of the city and kids/neighbors mingle freely (I have to dodge kids on bikes and playing soccer in the street on the way home), and the limited access points mean far less riff raff walking the streets (only neighbors and kids). Plus, we have larger yards than the Heights so kids can actually run around, play football, and have fun. I don't mind the suburban feel when I can walk to Reliant or bike to Rice Village. It's urban suburban with good schools:)

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Agreed. That's why we bought in Knollwood Village (South Braeswood area, just south of West U). The homes are newer/better than the Heights (like living in 1950's Leave it to Beaver), you get more for your money, WAY less crime, more families, and zoned to better schools (Longfellow, Pershing, Bellaire). I like the Heights as well, but I don't understand why a family would spend the crazy amounts of money to live there when you can get a 3/2/2 or 4/2/2 for around the same cost in S. Braeswood. Our neighborhood is nice throughout... unlike the Heights where certain streets have some really sketchy places. Plus, we have deed restrictions that will keep it at single-family. For those reading this forum and trying to look at the Heights and finding it unaffordable, listen to Marksmu and I.

 

I loved the Heights, my wife loved it even more than I did.  We left primarily because of schools.  Also, I wanted more space - lots more - the Heights lots are tiny, and lots of people prefer that...I don't but I enjoyed my time in the Heights - it was a great 7 years.

 

That said I am looking forward to having more space, a place to park a trailer when I need to tow one, and the additional distance between homes.  I never got used to the fact that when I looked out my kitchen window I was glaring into my neighbors family room.

 

The Heights is a feel all its own though that is not replicated in other areas of Houston in the same way - I think much of it is b/c of the lack of tract homes, and the fact that the neighborhood has a history of sticking together to fight crime and look out for one another...as the neighborhood has gentrified, and the Historic District People became more aggressive, much of that good neighbor feeling has unfortunately eroded.  The look of the area has improved drastically, and the parks/trails make the neighborhood great. Unfortunately the live and let live attitude has been eroded and there are too many people now who take it upon themselves to attempt  to dictate to others how they should live.

 

What will I miss about the Heights?  I will miss the proximity of everything to where I lived.  I had a great location, even if I did not use all the things I was close too.  I was blocks away from everything I needed daily and that was great.  I will miss the hike and bike trail, Collinas and Menchi's as I ate at those places frequently.  I will miss the location to all major freeways and the ability to take multiple routes when traffic arose.  The location of the Heights to everything in Houston is what truly made it convenient.  It was central, and central is easy to access everything.

 

What will I not miss?  The expensive restaurants b/c I never ate there due to having kids, bars b/c I never used them, I will not miss the HD natzis (though I still have a house in the HD west), I will not miss the narrow streets, lack of curb/gutter, everyone parking on the street, poor sidewalks, CRIME, check cashing stores, and the random ugly houses that are poorly maintained, and the sheer quantity of arrogant bicyclist in the area.

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I was in Montrose (the best "location" you can get, at least to me) and after having a couple of kids wound up in Old Braeswood.  Southgate was my top choice but we wound up sacrificing a fraction of commute time for a larger lot.  Anyway, the pricing of the Heights versus an area like Southgate just doesn't make sense to me.  Southgate certainly has better schools, I'd argue a better location (faster to Med Center, Rice, Rice Village, museums, midtown, Montrose, Hermann park, zoo, ~comparable to downtown).  I can see the new construction point but why on earth pay $870K for this (glorified townhome?)

 

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=41218795&v=s

 

When you could get this for $820K

 

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=44539834&v=s

 

Sure, maybe the 2nd place needs some updating but you could do quite a bit with $50K and wind up with an actual house/lot in a great location...  I will admit Southgate in general is priced higher, but I would think it will always be

 

It's funny, my brother isn't from Houston but all of his friends that have moved here are going to the Heights.  Neither of us can figure out why but we always joke about it (in a positive way.  "Let me guess, the Heights?").  These aren't West U-type earners by any means, but they are certainly professionals with decent earnings.  My best guess is that people view it as some sort of compromise between Montrose and West U?

 

 

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I was in Montrose (the best "location" you can get, at least to me) and after having a couple of kids wound up in Old Braeswood.  Southgate was my top choice but we wound up sacrificing a fraction of commute time for a larger lot.  Anyway, the pricing of the Heights versus an area like Southgate just doesn't make sense to me.  Southgate certainly has better schools, I'd argue a better location (faster to Med Center, Rice, Rice Village, museums, midtown, Montrose, Hermann park, zoo, ~comparable to downtown).  I can see the new construction point but why on earth pay $870K for this (glorified townhome?)

 

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=41218795&v=s

 

When you could get this for $820K

 

http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=44539834&v=s

 

Sure, maybe the 2nd place needs some updating but you could do quite a bit with $50K and wind up with an actual house/lot in a great location...  I will admit Southgate in general is priced higher, but I would think it will always be

 

It's funny, my brother isn't from Houston but all of his friends that have moved here are going to the Heights.  Neither of us can figure out why but we always joke about it (in a positive way.  "Let me guess, the Heights?").  These aren't West U-type earners by any means, but they are certainly professionals with decent earnings.  My best guess is that people view it as some sort of compromise between Montrose and West U?

 

 

 

I'd pick the first one for a couple reasons. One, location. The heights is closer all around to restaurants and bars I like to frequent. There are less than a handful of places I like that are south of 59. Yeah, the zoo and Miller and arts are great, but I don't frequent it often enough to justify the location. Restaurants and bars and such, I'd do that any day of the week. I'm not talking douchey bars, but chill bars to wind down from after workThe other reason is the build of the house. I'd forgo the bigger yard for a house with better efficiency and newer technology than one i have to retrofit or fix up. Just my two cents.

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The first house is overpriced by at least $200,000, maybe 250.

 

Wow you aren't kidding.  I really wonder where in the heck that developer thinks he is going to get a sucker to pay that, and if he does get a sucker, where in the heck is that sucker going to get a loan?  There is no way a townhome like that is going to appraise for $869K

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I prefer the Heights place for a variety of reasons although I dont have that kind of money so its irrelevant.  R+W are high end builders so this price is really out of scope with most, but they do have their fans and I'm sure it will sell.  I do think the Southgate home is a much better long term investment though.  

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I'd pick the first one for a couple reasons. One, location. The heights is closer all around to restaurants and bars I like to frequent. There are less than a handful of places I like that are south of 59. Yeah, the zoo and Miller and arts are great, but I don't frequent it often enough to justify the location. Restaurants and bars and such, I'd do that any day of the week. I'm not talking douchey bars, but chill bars to wind down from after workThe other reason is the build of the house. I'd forgo the bigger yard for a house with better efficiency and newer technology than one i have to retrofit or fix up. Just my two cents.

 

Bars and restaurants move, cultural institutions don't.  I'm also going to assume you don't have kids and aren't as interested in the schools

 

Definitely point taken on the age of construction, though.  The lot to home value ratio is pretty high in these older places.  I like the look of older homes but realize I'm in the minority on that one.  You really can't find a new home (not townhome) under $1 million anywhere near that part of town

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I prefer the Heights place for a variety of reasons although I dont have that kind of money so its irrelevant.  R+W are high end builders so this price is really out of scope with most, but they do have their fans and I'm sure it will sell.  I do think the Southgate home is a much better long term investment though.  

 

High end or not, it wont appraise so banks wont lend.  It's not bigger than comparable construction, its just significantly more expensive.

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Wow you aren't kidding.  I really wonder where in the heck that developer thinks he is going to get a sucker to pay that, and if he does get a sucker, where in the heck is that sucker going to get a loan?  There is no way a townhome like that is going to appraise for $869K

 

 

It's not a townhouse; it's a 3-story single-family, but that's REALLY testing the top of the market. One assumes there not in a big hurry to sell; only one of the six homes on the site is on HAR.  

 

There's not a TON of inventory in the Heights between $800 and $900k, but there's enough to indicate that for that kind of money, you can get at least 500 more s.f. and double the lot size, zoned to a better elementary school. (Like this one.)

 

Same builder will do the conversion of the AT&T building on the corner into "lofts", as well as build some houses on what is now the parking lot.

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Bars and restaurants move, cultural institutions don't.  I'm also going to assume you don't have kids and aren't as interested in the schools

 

Definitely point taken on the age of construction, though.  The lot to home value ratio is pretty high in these older places.  I like the look of older homes but realize I'm in the minority on that one.  You really can't find a new home (not townhome) under $1 million anywhere near that part of town

 

If school was an issue and private school wasn't an option, then I'd go with Southgate or West U. I do think the 3 story home shown was overpriced, though. I have lots of friends who live in Super Neighborhood 22, Heights, and Garden Oaks, so that makes a difference as well.

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It's not a townhouse; it's a 3-story single-family, but that's REALLY testing the top of the market. One assumes there not in a big hurry to sell; only one of the six homes on the site is on HAR.  

 

There's not a TON of inventory in the Heights between $800 and $900k, but there's enough to indicate that for that kind of money, you can get at least 500 more s.f. and double the lot size, zoned to a better elementary school. (Like this one.)

 

Same builder will do the conversion of the AT&T building on the corner into "lofts", as well as build some houses on what is now the parking lot.

 

Its still a townhouse, its just a detached townhouse.  Tiny, tiny lot, big house, more than one side by side = townhouse.  Townhouses do not have to share common walls.

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You have picked houses that are on opposite ends of the spectrum for each neighborhood.  East of Kirby is Roberts Elementary.  Good school, but Poe is where everyone wants to be.  Also, being in the shadow of Rice's football stadium isn't as attractive as being a hop and skip away from 19th st.  So, the Southgate example is on the low end of the spectrum for that neighborhood.  Most everything west of Kirby is 1 mil+.

 

The new construction on 18th is way on the high end of the spectrum in the Heights per sq ft.  It is a fancy custom builder who will put in all the high end stuff.  The house will probably sell for $800k.  2900 sq ft houses from an inferior builder have been getting @730k in the neighborhood.  869k is not going to happen, but 780-800k will.  Lots of great stuff happening on 19th st. adding value to that area. 

 

That's completely incorrect.  Roberts is superior to Poe - look it up.  Poe is still an OK school, though

 

My impression is that the rich people zoned to Poe tend to go private

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High end or not, it wont appraise so banks wont lend.  It's not bigger than comparable construction, its just significantly more expensive.

 

Well, again not in my price range, but bigger home doesn't mean bigger price anymore.  I don't think it will have a hard time appraising.  These are the guys that built million dollar Caceres homes in a time when Rice Military was maxing out in the $350s and seem to be doing well enough there.  My guess is they have a pretty good idea of what they're doing.

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You have picked houses that are on opposite ends of the spectrum for each neighborhood.  East of Kirby is Roberts Elementary.  Good school, but Poe is where everyone wants to be.  Also, being in the shadow of Rice's football stadium isn't as attractive as being a hop and skip away from 19th st.  So, the Southgate example is on the low end of the spectrum for that neighborhood.  Most everything west of Kirby is 1 mil+.

 

The new construction on 18th is way on the high end of the spectrum in the Heights per sq ft.  It is a fancy custom builder who will put in all the high end stuff.  The house will probably sell for $800k.  2900 sq ft houses from an inferior builder have been getting @730k in the neighborhood.  869k is not going to happen, but 780-800k will.  Lots of great stuff happening on 19th st. adding value to that area. 

 

While everyone is entitled to their own opinion, you may be the only person I've ever met (or not met) who thinks a house on 18th street near Shepherd is more attractive than a house bordering Rice University. And, I am not surprised that you think that price is close to correct. I remember when you were bragging about what you payed for your house a couple of years back.

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Well, again not in my price range, but bigger home doesn't mean bigger price anymore.  I don't think it will have a hard time appraising.  These are the guys that built million dollar Caceres homes in a time when Rice Military was maxing out in the $350s and seem to be doing well enough there.  My guess is they have a pretty good idea of what they're doing.

 

Funny that you should mention Caceres. Check it out. Million dollar 4700 foot homes. $280 psf. That's 30 bucks a foot LESS than this Heights house...a house that is WEST of Heights Blvd, by the way.

 

 

http://search.har.com/engine/130-Calle-Catalina-Pl-Houston-TX-77007_HAR78961173.htm

 

http://search.har.com/engine/114-Calle-Catalina-Pl-Houston-TX-77007_HAR90047404.htm

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 There's not a TON of inventory in the Heights between $800 and $900k, but there's enough to indicate that for that kind of money, you can get at least 500 more s.f. and double the lot size, zoned to a better elementary school. (Like this one.)

 

But again, South Braeswood: http://search.har.com/engine/3206-Drummond-St-Houston-77025-1920_HAR96818694.htm

 

Double the lot size, more sq footage, better schools, safer neighborhood, one story, 84k less.

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Agreed. That's why we bought in Knollwood Village (South Braeswood area, just south of West U). The homes are newer/better than the Heights (like living in 1950's Leave it to Beaver), you get more for your money, WAY less crime, more families, and zoned to better schools (Longfellow, Pershing, Bellaire). I like the Heights as well, but I don't understand why a family would spend the crazy amounts of money to live there when you can get a 3/2/2 or 4/2/2 for around the same cost in S. Braeswood. Our neighborhood is nice throughout... unlike the Heights where certain streets have some really sketchy places. Plus, we have deed restrictions that will keep it at single-family. For those reading this forum and trying to look at the Heights and finding it unaffordable, listen to Marksmu and I.

I respect that you want to defend your neighborhood to the death. But to say the housing stock in Knollwood is better? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what is aesthetically pleasing and what is not is up to interpretation, but at least for me 1950's architecture marked the beginning of the ranch style home which is still what we see built today in the burbs. Not much architectural value whatsoever at least in the present, although i have seen an increased interest in midcentury modern furniture as of late. There is a reason all the 1950's homes are being demolished in garden oaks/oak forest. The Heights on the other hand is flush with Victorian and Craftsman era architecture; ornate millwork, exposed rafters, open front porches, etc. Likewise, there is a reason so many homes are renovated as opposed to being demolished and when they are knocked down ppl have a cow. People who seek out the Heights arent the ones looking for the most square feet per dollar; that is the same 'burbs mentality that everyone seeking to live inside the loop are trying to get away from.

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Roberts > Poe. Poe is good. Roberts is excellent. The difference is Poe has a ton of kids from North of 59 (think apartments and old houses that line Richmond). Every day around 3 you can watch the parade on foot across the 59 bridges. 

 

Also, I am with Red on this one. I've never heard anyone complain about living in the shadows of Rice Stadium. Ever. Having the university close by is one of my favorite things about living down here (South of 59). The new sky public art deal, the campus coffee house, the trail around the campus, and the beautiful architecture of the original quad that opens up to Hermann Park are all huge plusses for me. I also enjoy walking over to campus to catch a football/baseball game or to watch the nerds play the Harry Potter game.

 

As for laid back bars, Kelvin Arms. Kay's, Gingerman, Volcano's, Fedora, Simone's on Sunset, and Valhalla are awesome (depending upon the night).

 

 

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Roberts > Poe. Poe is good. Roberts is excellent. The difference is Poe has a ton of kids from North of 59 (think apartments and old houses that line Richmond). Every day around 3 you can watch the parade on foot across the 59 bridges. 

 

Also, I am with Red on this one. I've never heard anyone complain about living in the shadows of Rice Stadium. Ever. Having the university close by is one of my favorite things about living down here (South of 59). The new sky public art deal, the campus coffee house, the trail around the campus, and the beautiful architecture of the original quad that opens up to Hermann Park are all huge plusses for me. I also enjoy walking over to campus to catch a football/baseball game or to watch the nerds play the Harry Potter game.

 

As for laid back bars, Kelvin Arms. Kay's, Gingerman, Volcano's, Fedora, Simone's on Sunset, and Valhalla are awesome (depending upon the night).

 

 

And I doubt that many people share the view that being close to 19th street is better than being close to Rice village.

Plus you're closer to the museums, plus zoo, plus Hermann park.

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About half a mil.

 

I'm not sure what they paid for the land, but if you assume $30/sf (which is probably low), it's sitting on $100k of dirt.  I would have expected 2800 s.f. of house plus a detached garage to cost more in the range of $400k than $200k, especially with the kind of high-end materials and finishes expected at this price point.

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I respect that you want to defend your neighborhood to the death. But to say the housing stock in Knollwood is better? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what is aesthetically pleasing and what is not is up to interpretation, but at least for me 1950's architecture marked the beginning of the ranch style home which is still what we see built today in the burbs. Not much architectural value whatsoever at least in the present, although i have seen an increased interest in midcentury modern furniture as of late. There is a reason all the 1950's homes are being demolished in garden oaks/oak forest. The Heights on the other hand is flush with Victorian and Craftsman era architecture; ornate millwork, exposed rafters, open front porches, etc. Likewise, there is a reason so many homes are renovated as opposed to being demolished and when they are knocked down ppl have a cow. People who seek out the Heights arent the ones looking for the most square feet per dollar; that is the same 'burbs mentality that everyone seeking to live inside the loop are trying to get away from.

 

 

You can't remodel your way out of 8-ft ceilings.

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Good for you if you want Victorian with fine mill work. Frankly, I want a solid place to live in the loop in a safe neighborhood that's easy to maintain and room to grow. I love 8 ft ceilings and single-storied. I looked at the Heights before Knollwood (and could have easily bought), but did not like the houses and neighborhood. As a liberal I was hoping to like the Heights since it seemed like a place I would fit in, but I just couldn't stomach the kind of house and lot size for what I could find elsewhere in a better location.

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Yeah when i was looking in Timbergrove it seemed almost all the houses that would have had 8' ceilings had used their attic space for cathedral ceilings, traces, raised coffers, etc.

 

It makes a world of difference.  8' flat ceilings are a deal breaker for me.   (heck mine are over 9' and i wish they were taller)

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Good for you if you want Victorian with fine mill work. Frankly, I want a solid place to live in the loop in a safe neighborhood that's easy to maintain and room to grow. I love 8 ft ceilings and single-storied. I looked at the Heights before Knollwood (and could have easily bought), but did not like the houses and neighborhood. As a liberal I was hoping to like the Heights since it seemed like a place I would fit in, but I just couldn't stomach the kind of house and lot size for what I could find elsewhere in a better location.

 

Brian, I actually don't live in a Victorian. I chose a Craftsman which are actually very different in design philosophy. I highly doubt the crime in Heights proper is any worse than Knollwood. And as far as "solid" is concerned, original Heights homes (Pre-1940s) were constructed of old-growth wood not farmed saplings (as I can attest everytime I curse my walls when trying to hammer a nail in the wall to hang a picture) so we got that a covered. You describe that you couldn't stomach the "kind" of house, but I suspect what you mean to say is you couldn't stomach the amount of square feet for the price which I think I drove home in my last post as well. Noone is going to pick a 1950s ranch style home over a Craftsman Bungalow for the same price/sq ft.

 

I'm calling it now and only time will tell if I'm right: Heights is West U and Garden Oaks/Oak Forest is Bellaire for Generation X/Y.

 

I, like you, also could have easily bought in either neighborhood and am also liberal/progressive leaning (part of the reason the Heights was attractive to me as well). It is a matter of opinion and we can agree to disagree :) We just had different criteria; I was looking for the convenience of living inside the loop and a neighborhood with original homes; specially in this day in age of cookie cutter homes, mcdonalds and walmarts. I literally go for walks and bike rides around my neighborhood just to admire the architecture and am happy that to this day I still have not found two homes that are the same.

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