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Houston Botanical Garden At The Glenbrook Golf Course


cloud713

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does anyone think Houston will ever get a legit botanical gardens? the ones in San Antonio are very nice and it would be a great addition to things to do/see around town.

i know there are some smaller gardens, but why dont we have a full fledged botanical garden like many major cities?

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I think Centennial Park next to Herman Park is going to be a nice botanical garden. Also its right next to the proposed helix tower.

 

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I've posted this before but each time I see these renderings I wonder why the notion of a Shakespeare Garden never came to anyone's mind? I have been to the New York Botanical Garden when they did Mark Twain's, Emily Dickensons, and Monet's Garden as special events--they were so lovely.

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 Hermann Park should replace the golf course with more gardens and usable park space. Hundreds, even thousands enjoy Hermann park in a day, but the half that is golf course is used by a few doxen at most. Seems like an inefficient use of the land. they should put a real aquarium there too.

 

 

If only I were a rich influential philanthropist.

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Hermann Park should replace the golf course with more gardens and usable park space. Hundreds, even thousands enjoy Hermann park in a day, but the half that is golf course is used by a few doxen at most. Seems like an inefficient use of the land. they should put a real aquarium there too.

If only I were a rich influential philanthropist.

. Bad idea. Public golf courses are in such demand and low supply in this town. Just because it doesn't suit you doesn't mean it's not good. That course is always jam packed. I don't care for Shakespeare in the park but that doesn't mean we should take out the sparsely used amphitheater to suit me.
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does anyone think Houston will ever get a legit botanical gardens? the ones in San Antonio are very nice and it would be a great addition to things to do/see around town.

i know there are some smaller gardens, but why dont we have a full fledged botanical garden like many major cities?

 

There is a group committed to doing this

 

To donate to this effort, please make your check payable to

Houston Botanic Garden

And send to

Houston Botanic Garden

P. O. Box 27510

Houston, Texas 77227

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. Bad idea. Public golf courses are in such demand and low supply in this town. Just because it doesn't suit you doesn't mean it's not good. That course is always jam packed. I don't care for Shakespeare in the park but that doesn't mean we should take out the sparsely used amphitheater to suit me.

 

I don't have anything against golf or public golf courses. In fact i'd love to see many more open in the Houston area. I just believe this particular location would be better served as park space more accessible to the general public.

 

Hermann Park visitors are basically missing out on one of it's best assets in Brays Bayou. I frequently take the Brays trail to Herman park and would like to see it integrated into the park more. As it is, the golf course serves as a major disconnect from the park and the bayou.

 

It would also introduce many Houstonians to the trail system that are currently unaware of it.

 

P.S. I've had a few beers and my firefox spell check isn't underlining my errors for some reason .

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I don't care for Shakespeare in the park but that doesn't mean we should take out the sparsely used amphitheater to suit me.

 

i was actually just looking at Hermann park on google earth and was thinking the area where the amphitheater is would be a great place for botanical gardens since its right across the reflection pond from the Japanese Gardens. it would make more sense to put gardens there than where the "Centennial Gardens" is going, further away from the Japanese Gardens.

Edited by cloud713
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There is a group committed to doing this

 

To donate to this effort, please make your check payable to

Houston Botanic Garden

And send to

Houston Botanic Garden

P. O. Box 27510

Houston, Texas 77227

 

This group's proposal is for a Botanical Garden at Gus Wortham Golf Course.  I didn't find that information on their web site but there was to be a speaker on the subject at the Idylwood Civic Club meeting last night.

 

I did not attend so have no more information.

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This group's proposal is for a Botanical Garden at Gus Wortham Golf Course.  I didn't find that information on their web site but there was to be a speaker on the subject at the Idylwood Civic Club meeting last night.

 

I did not attend so have no more information.

Of course, because there's no reason to have a course on the East side that the less affluent can play. Why don't the garden folks go out and put together a piece of land that isn't being used by a bunch of other people?

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My understanding is that their proposed location is in Cullinan Park, not Gus Wortham Park.    Perhaps there has been a change of plans.  I note that the Idylwood Civic Club's Facebook page says the speaker is slated for the September 17 meeting, not the meeting earlier this week, so maybe little frau can attend and update us.

Edited by Houston19514
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Of course, because there's no reason to have a course on the East side that the less affluent can play. Why don't the garden folks go out and put together a piece of land that isn't being used by a bunch of other people?

 

It's cheap because not many people play it. I really enjoy playing it. I think it's empty because it still has a bad reputation for being seedy.

 

It's been at least a decade since a kid shagged a ball I had hit in the rough and tried to sell it back to me though.

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My understanding is that their proposed location is in Cullinan Park, not Gus Wortham Park.    Perhaps there has been a change of plans.  I note that the Idylwood Civic Club's Facebook page says the speaker is slated for the September 17 meeting, not the meeting earlier this week, so maybe little frau can attend and update us.

 

Quite likely their plans have changed as the information in the link you provided seems to have been current in 2009.

 

Also it would appear that the Idylwood facebook page is incorrect.

 

In the August 2013 newsletter "Idylwood News", it is stated that:

 

"Jeff Ross--August Civic Club Guest Speaker will be discussing his proposal to turn Gus Wortham Golf Course into a Botanical Garden.  He would like input from the community."

 

The information in my previous post (the one you took exception to) was taken from an email blast sent out to the neighborhood on August 19, from the civic club president, regarding the meeting to take place on Tuesday August 20.

 

Why in the world would the Botanical Garden folks be wanting input from east end residents if the garden was to be placed in Cullinan?

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Why in the world would the Botanical Garden folks be wanting input from east end residents if the garden was to be placed in Cullinan?

 

 

Agreed.  That is why I allowed that perhaps the plans have changed.  Clearly, one or both of these groups has incorrect information posted on their website/facebook page...  ;-)   

 

It is also possible they are making the rounds of civic groups around town to build support for the Botanic Gardens.  There are a lot of confusing signals.  There are earlier bits of information that say it was planned for Herman Brown Park.  Both Cullinan Park and Gus Wortham have master plans that do not include Botanic Gardens.  Both are listed as "current projects" on the Houston Park Board's website.

 

It would be great if you could follow up with a fellow civic club member and get the latest scoop.

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  • 3 weeks later...

According to the Eastwood Civic Associations FB page, the Houston Botanic Gardens will be discussing their plans to convert half of the Gus Wortham Golf Course into gardens at tonight's Super Neighborhood 64/88 meeting. So I am guessing this Wortham proposal IS legitimate. Then again, this Houston Botanic Garden entity has had proposals for gardens all around town over the years! Originally, it was to be located at Herman Brown Park in Northeast Houston, then in Cullinan Park, as discussed, and now at the Wortham Golf Course. Really, how hard is it to pick a site and just stick with it! For those interested, tonight's meeting will be held at 2002 S. Wayside at 6:30p.

Edited by intencity77
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Right, it's on Idylwood's web page too.  www.idylwood.org  

 

Now, however, Idylwood has other woes.  The Houston Parks Board wants to put a parking lot at the curve on N. Macgregor Way & Sylvan for the hike and bike trail.  Idylwood just found out about this when park folks were tagging trees to be cut down. 

 

"They" said that the parking lot has been in their plans all along but no renderings or maps can be found showing this.  With so many other locations around that could be used, it's a mystery why they want to put it in a neighborhood.  They'll have to destroy a green space and trees to put in asphalt.

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  • 3 weeks later...

ive never seen the course in person but the scenery does look nice. i could see why they would choose that area, it would definitely make for a great setting for a botanical garden with the "rolling hills", mature shady trees throughout the area, and the bayou. i wish it wasnt so far from downtown but its nice that its near the east end light rail line.

Edited by cloud713
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I still don't understand this.

 

I mean, I get it, but it is a horrible idea.

 

As someone who has played the 3 in the loop courses, Hermann is by far the most boring, and Gus is the most interesting to play. It would be a shame, from a perspective of interesting courses, to dump the Gus because it doesn't have doctors working right next door. Oh well. I guess I'll have to go play a few rounds and enjoy it while it lasts, not like there will be strong enough opposition to this.

 

They really should be looking at Sharpstown as the target for this, the only thing that course offers is being really long, but I bet it gets as much play as Memorial, or Hermann.

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This group should try to actually visit that course on a Saturday or Sunday morning. When I played golf there you could hear extremely loud music and a girl barking the Fiesta deals of the day through a loud speaker non-stop. It is anything but serene.

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The last Idylwood Civic Club meeting had something of a brouhaha between those for and those against this deal.  It's still fairly early to draw any swords but there are petitions being circulated already.

 

So if they get a long term lease from the COH, raise the money to make it a reality and no one wants to visit this side of town, what happens then? 

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The last Idylwood Civic Club meeting had something of a brouhaha between those for and those against this deal.  It's still fairly early to draw any swords but there are petitions being circulated already.

 

So if they get a long term lease from the COH, raise the money to make it a reality and no one wants to visit this side of town, what happens then? 

 

then we've spent a lot of money to lose the best municipal course inside the loop.

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There is a group committed to doing this

 

To donate to this effort, please make your check payable to

Houston Botanic Garden

And send to

Houston Botanic Garden

P. O. Box 27510

Houston, Texas 77227

I tried (unsuccessfully) to surf the internet to find the cost of building  a small "themed" garden-- but I did find what it costs to rent those gardens for weddings or other celebrations from $500 for a couple of hours to $2000 + for 2  hours--

 

Maybe a small themed garden would generate enough money through rentals  to help pay for installation.

 

full disclosure all of the gardens I found  had themes running along lines of Shakespeare or Elizabethan so I guess who ever choses the theme would have to be careful. . . . . . . not sure if there would be the same response to "Ma Ferguson" or "Jane Long" gardens but then again. . . . . maybe. 

 

Guess it would be great for some "Garden Angel Philanthropist"  to step up and provide money for garden in exchange for their name on a brass path plate.

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  • 5 months later...

I had posted (from Ellen Cohens enewsletter) this under City government but then noticed that the Quality of life committee will hear presentation on a botanical garden-- I couldn't find any other details on the internet.

 

March Quality of Life Committee Meeting

Council Member Cohen will chair the March meeting of the Quality of Life Committee on Wednesday, March 26th at 2:00PM. The committee expects to view presentations on a proposed anti-hoarding ordinance; the Houston Department of Health and Human Services; and possible locations for a Houston Botanical Garden. The Committee meeting will be held in Council Chambers at City Hall (901 Bagby St, 2nd floor) and is open to the public. Citizens will have the opportunity to address the committee and may sign up to do so the day-of in Council Chambers.

 

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I had posted (from Ellen Cohens enewsletter) this under City government but then noticed that the Quality of life committee will hear presentation on a botanical garden-- I couldn't find any other details on the internet.

 

March Quality of Life Committee Meeting

Council Member Cohen will chair the March meeting of the Quality of Life Committee on Wednesday, March 26th at 2:00PM. The committee expects to view presentations on a proposed anti-hoarding ordinance; the Houston Department of Health and Human Services; and possible locations for a Houston Botanical Garden. The Committee meeting will be held in Council Chambers at City Hall (901 Bagby St, 2nd floor) and is open to the public. Citizens will have the opportunity to address the committee and may sign up to do so the day-of in Council Chambers.

 

 

When this newsletter says "possible locations"  how many locations are on the table?

 

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I don't personally know and have only seen a master plan of one location, Cullinan in Sugarland, which has been mentioned here.   

 

Houston Botanic Garden also considered Herman Brown Park out I-10 & Mercury but for whatever reasons, it fell through as did the Sugarland location.  There's some old newspaper pieces floating around the net about the Herman Brown deal.

 

Having said that, there were rumors in the east end that several other locations had been suggested by the COH Parks department, all of which were rejected by the HBG.  Perhaps Cohen will cover those other locations.

 

HBG had some green yard signs printed in English on one side and Spanish on the other, stating something about supporting a garden WITH a golf course.  They popped up in yards across the east end as well as the red Save Gus Wortham signs from the Harrisburg Heritage Society. 

 

Somehow word got out that the Houston Botanic Garden could not or would not include a golf course in their design for Wortham and Idylwood pulled their support, not that it means anything in the grand scheme.

 

Bottom line is that the botanic garden folks never wanted to have a golf course.  Their initial proposal to the different organizations in the east end, back in August & September '13, only stated that there was a "possibility" of including a 9 hole course.

 

Last I heard, HBG does not have a master plan for Gus Wortham.  I suppose they put out a lot of money on the one for Cullinan before they had the OK on the location.  They probably don't want to repeat that mistake.  But, why would the city give them a long term lease WITHOUT seeing a master plan?

 

Maybe because the CEO of HBG is an old college chum of Ms Mayor.

 

 

 

 

 

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The local word is that the town hall meeting to be held Monday 3-31 will cover plans for Wortham.  Ross will speak about HBG and there is to be a presentation of the master plan for restoring Wortham Golf Course.

 

Gallegos is a Parker puppet so he will be no help for the course preservation folks.  He's still all bent out of shape about the Wayside Walmart.

 

Not sure where the Glenbrook info originated but that may be out the door before it even got in.

 

 

 

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Since the HBG will be a private non profit, they will do as they please but they may listen to suggestions tomorrow night at the town hall meeting.

 

They will cut down many of the old oaks and no one can protest to the city about anything. 

 

I personally wish they'd put it in the middle of River Oaks.  Or Southampton where Jeff Ross lives.

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I think a botanical garden is just what our city needs and as an East End resident I fully support it! I believe the proposed gardens would be a better use of the land and would be more, all around inviting than any golf course. Instead of this public land existing mainly for just golfers, it could be of use for everyone! I seriously don't see how any rational East End resident could be against this, unless they are an avid golfer and use the course to a great extent. Besides, this is the way of Houston, nothing and I do mean nothing ever sticks around permanently, including "historic" golf courses. Let's get this built!

Edited by intencity77
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First off, I really hope that someone else that attended comes here and gives their impression of the Town Hall meeting tonight, 3-31-14.

 

I can give my thoughts but I'm so biased in the 'pro Gus' camp that I'd really like to read some in the 'pro garden' camp just to see if I miss-read the audience.

 

I don't really think that many who were there tonight (3-31) actually read and post here but I'm willing to give it a chance.

 

I'll check back in a day or two but it seemed a bit one sided tonight.  Pro Golf Course.......for history and the youth.  Doesn't really mean much if MAP is opposed though.

 

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I did not make it to the meeting, and am a little surprised that the crowd was predominantly pro GW. I say that because the Eastwood civic association and other neighbors with very close ties to Parker administration are aggressively asking for botanic garden support. Did the garden group present any finanical plan or projections with anything resembling a reasonable picture of how they intend to raise $40 million, annual revenue projections, etc? Because there are some mighty big claims as to jobs creation and investment being thrown around that I just can't believe. Not to mention, what are the terms of the lease? I get it, the city wants to wash its hands of the golf course and are willing to let a friend of the administration with a nice pitch have it, as long as the checks cash. Below is the email I've been asked to sign and send to Council and MAPs office. It is chock full of economic inpact claims that I frankly don't trust. Needless to say I'll be writing my own in order to voice my concerns about the claims comapared to the 'plan'. It almost seems as if we're being strong-armed with the "well, the course is toast no matter what, so you better take this option now" argument. Curious if they spoke at all of the latest status on the overpass that will extend the rail line. When the green line opens later this year it will essentially dead end at Altic; AFAIK there is no date on when the full line will be complete.

"Mayor Parker, CM Gallegos and City Council Members: Thank you again for providing us the opportunity to voice our many and varied opinions at the Town hall meeting yesterday. Mr. Icken’s presentation stated the current financial situation perfectly; Gus Wortham Golf Course loses money every year (while Glenbrook actually pays the City) and there are no City dollars available to update/rehab this failing city golf course. The Gus Wortham location is preferred for the Botanic Garden due to its inside the loop location, convergences of I-10, Hwy 45 and Hwy 90/Wayside PLUS the new EastEnd light rail connecting it to the rest of the city. Its location is accessible (within 15 minutes/miles) to 75% of all Houston residents and will have some $50 to $100 million in economic impact for the city as a whole and the EASTEND in particular. All in all, the Gus Wortham location is the BEST, most fiscally responsible location, for the Houston Botanic Garden. Each group, The Houston Botanic Garden and the Friends of Gus Wortham, will soon present their vision for Gus Wortham to you; the options are these… a) The Botanic Garden will bring $40Million in investment directly to the EASTEND B) The Friends of GW raise $14 Million for the rehab of the golf course Option A has the potential to bring jobs, community and educational outreach, tourism, restaurants, retail—huge economic development to Houston and the EastEndOption B will bring in jobs during the 6-12 month redevelopment period. The Friends must then continue to fundraise to cover any shortfall in the day to day operations of GW There is a third option; the Friends of Gus Wortham win the contract and DON’T raise the contracted $14 million. The EastEnd will have lost the Garden, receive minimal redevelopment for GW and the economic growth promised by both is lost forever. What are the consequences of either party failing to meet their contractual obligation? Mayor Parker and councilmembers, the entire city will support a Houston Botanic Garden; they raised over $300,000 at a two hour luncheon in November 2013 alone. I understand they currently have over $1Million in the bank (without a firm garden location) compared to the Friends of GW who have raised just over $100,000 in five years. I ask you to support a self-sustaining Houston Botanic Garden at Gus Wortham and access for the many, not just the few. Thank you. "

Edited by crunchtastic
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First off, I really hope that someone else that attended comes here and gives their impression of the Town Hall meeting tonight, 3-31-14.

 

I can give my thoughts but I'm so biased in the 'pro Gus' camp that I'd really like to read some in the 'pro garden' camp just to see if I miss-read the audience.

 

I don't really think that many who were there tonight (3-31) actually read and post here but I'm willing to give it a chance.

 

I'll check back in a day or two but it seemed a bit one sided tonight.  Pro Golf Course.......for history and the youth.  Doesn't really mean much if MAP is opposed though.

So did someone from the "Garden" camp attend? Will you post your thoughts?

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So did someone from the "Garden" camp attend? Will you post your thoughts?

i guess not? can someone from the "golf" camp at least give their take on the meeting? biased or not its nice to get some input of what went on for those of us who didnt attend.

other than these golf courses where could a Botanical Gardens go? i guess there is Hardy Yards and KBG site, and the Astroworld, but practically all of those sites are treeless and would need a lot of mature trees imported ($$$) to set the ambiance of a Houston botanical garden.

i guess something important we would need to know for that is what size should the botanical garden be? i did some quick research on other botanical gardens around the state to see what we are up against..

San Antonios botanical garden - 33 acres

Dallas' botanical garden - 66 acres

Ft Worths botanical garden - 109 acres

for comparison, NYCs is 250 acres.

ive only been to the SA botanical garden but felt it was a decent size for older people and people with disabilities (my mother has a muscle disease and cant walk super long distances), but for the sake of competition and being the best in the state were going to want to have a much larger botanical garden.. heh. maybe they can have little scooters for to rent for people with disabilities, or have one smaller section of the gardens be like "gardens from around the world", close to the front, to kind of sum up the whole place for the people who cant make it all the way around a 100+ acre park.

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  • The title was changed to Houston Botanical Garden At The Glenbrook Golf Course

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