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Set Love Free?

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Some of our Houston posters may not be too familiar with the Wright Amendment. It restricts flights out of Love Field to Texas and surrounding states. It was originally intended to help DFW Airport grow.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3271612

Southwest is pushing to lift the restriction. DFW Airport opposes, saying it will cost them 21 million passengers a year. I think that is a ridiculously inflated figure, but this restriction keeps ticket prices artificially high in Dallas.

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SW has also hinted a threat at moving out of Dallas altogether if they don't get what they want. No idea where they would move to *if* they did. Hobby and SAT (San Antonio) are options but they could just as easily choose another location in the sunbelt, like Phoenix.

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My first job out of college was at Southwest's HQ. There are two sides to this argument.

Some old timers at Southwest also counter that the Wright Amendment helped to create their success. At first it looked silly to want to continue to fly out of DAL when D/FW opened.

If it wern't for the free booze and go-go boots, they may have never made it.

That being said, say buh-bye to the WA. It served two purposes and it's time to go the way of the Do-do.

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True. Just because it worked so well in DFW's infancy, does not mean it is useful today. I assume FtW is still against the repeal (DFW is in FW city limits)?

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DFW Airport opposes, saying it will cost them 21 million passengers a year.

Even if that's not inflated, what gives? Aren't we supposed to be promoting airlines and getting more people to fly? Especially since 9/11 and with all the airlines in the red. This doesn't make any sort of sense. It seems to me that Southwest would profit. Besides, the people who are closer to DFW wouldn't drive across the city to fly out of Love (flight permitting.)

No one said Love couldn't set their prices at the exact same thing as SW flights in DFW, either. Then it's not so much a question of competition, just about where people live.

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I don't think SW flies out of DFW anymore. Besides, why should we support inefficient business models artificially? If those airlines run a crummy operation, let the market dictate what happens to them.

Tickets in Dallas are up to 100% more expensive than Houston, mostly due to this rule. Dallas travellers (and that includes Houstonians who fly through there) should not have to subsidize bad business models through restrictive government regulation, when it is not regulated elsewhere.

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Tickets in Dallas are up to 100% more expensive than Houston, mostly due to this rule.

Isn't it cheaper to fly into DFW than any airport Houston? Or are those just for tickets out of DFW?

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The Wright Amendment was put in place by Jim Wright when DFW was built... It protected FW's intrest in DFW Airport since Dallas and FW agreed to build the world's largest airport (at that time) as a joint venture. Love Field was already in Dallas, serving as a regional airport. DFW was build to be an international airport serving all of DFW and North Texas. Dallas agreed to the Wright amendment. People seem to forget that Dallas willingly entered into the agreement. Today, DFW Airport is the largest economic engine in all of DFW and is home to American Airlines - the World's Largest Airline, which offically calls FW home. Can you really blame the city of FW for wanting to uphold the agreement they had with Dallas and to protect one of their largest employers from even more financial difficulty? If DFW does suffer from the repeal of the Wright Amendment so does the city of Fort Worth - and it's Dallas' lack of honoring their word that is potentially going to cause that problem. It is Southwest Airlines that is at the root of everything. They have been offered gates at DFW airport - which would allow them to fly to any state in the nation - or wherever they want to go. But, they're refusing that offer. Southwest Airlines is the trouble-maker here - not FW, not DFW.... If Southwest were to stay at love and fly regionally out of Love and fly to other states out of DFW it would have the same price lowering affect while still allowing them to fly whereever they want. By repealing the Wright Amendment, they are targeting DFW Airport and American Airlines - and indirectly the city of Fort Worth. SWA posted a $159 million profit for the quarter - you can't tell me they can't afford to to open a few gates at DFW to "move about the country". The former Delta gates are being offered to anyone who wants them at a huge discount from their normal rates.... SWA could pick up 10 gates at DFW (I think Love Field has less than 20 gates) and increase their footprint in the market, increase they places they fly, lower ticket prices at DFW and solve all the problems. SWA has the ability to solve the whole mess - they're just being a snotty, little, corporate brat by kicking and screaming because they're not getting their way.

On a side note - it's not a bad business model that is hurting American Airlines... It's high fuel cost. They are back to pre-911 numbers in terms of the number of people flying... but the cost of fuel is what is keeping them in the red.

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Maybe on AA, but who wants to connect in DFW?

'Tis better to connect in DFW from Louisville than connect in Memphis from Lexington via prop. <_<

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Why would SWA want to fly out of D/FW?

SWA's business model is based upon on-time performance and 20 mintue turns at the gates. You can't do that at D/FW.

It all boils down to revenue management and how to get the most money out of your existing fleet of aircraft.

Just a couple of examples that the managment team at AA fails to grasp. The high-dollar MBAs at AA need to resign.

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it's not a bad business model that is hurting American Airlines... It's high fuel cost

There are ways to get around this. Hedging your fuel like SWA, keeping costs low, etc.

"The world's largest airline!" Starting to wonder if that's really something to be proud of if you can't be profitable.

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Why would SWA want to fly out of D/FW?

SWA's business model is based upon on-time performance and 20 mintue turns at the gates.  You can't do that at D/FW.

It all boils down to revenue management and how to get the most money out of your existing fleet of aircraft.

Just a couple of examples that the managment team at AA fails to grasp.  The high-dollar MBAs at AA need to resign.

I agree that AA could do some things to be more competitive. However, that doesn't change the facts surrounding the Wright Amendment - and how Dallas is trying to backout of their agreement with FW. Hey, I'm all for free enterprise. But whatever happened to having to uphold the legal obligations that a party willingly enters into? What good is a contract if you don't have to hold up your end of the bargain?

SWA should fly out of DFW to enable them to fly anywhere they want... They could do that tomorrow if their REAL interest was to increase their number of domestic destinations. They could keep their business model in place at DFW too... They may have a little trouble with the 20 minute turn around due to traffic at DFW at first, but they could adjust the way they do business to compensate for any unforeseen issues at a larger airport. But, the late flights aren't universally the problem of DFW airport... Delays at other airports, weather, traffic in and out of other airports... all those factors contribute to delays at DFW - not because it's DFW, but because of the nature of being a large international airport with world-wide destinations. SWA could fly out of DFW, see if they can keep their business model working at DFW and THEN try to repeal the amendment - if it wasn't working or their business was hurting for some reason. SWA just needs to be careful because if the Wright Amendment is repealed - just watch how fast AA opens gates at Love and drops ticket prices..... What will SWA do when AA is flying out of Love Field and they're suddenly in a price war with the World's Largest Airline in their own backyard? It's not a given that SWA will profit from the repeal of the Wright Amendment. In fact, all that will do is put them in the boxing ring with a much bigger opponent. AA may not be as profitable, but it's a lot larger and has much larger holdings to leverage if needed. They didn't become the world's largest airline by being polite.

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^^^^ Heh. It's almost like SWA is pulling a corporate strike. "We won't work until you meet our demands!"

"But you have a contract!"

"Shove it! We're on strike! Down with the man!!"

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Don't pretend that other airlines would not want to fly out of Love.

Midwest Express wants to start routes to Madison from Love. They don't want to mess with D/FW, either.

I am glad Houston does not have to enter agreements with other cities a la Dallas/Ft. Worth.

Houston may be big and ugly, but Houston is Houston, and we don't have to worry about squabbles with Sugar Land, The Woodlands, etc.

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I don't blame FW, or DFW for that matter, for trying to protect their turf. And I agree with Willy that SWA is using their local influence to try to beat the hub-and-spoke airlines even further.

I still hate Herb "Mr. Free Enterprise" Kelleher for his antics in the 80s to weight the bullet train proposal down with so many needless restrictions that it was financially impossible to build the high speed rail in Texas. So, if SWA gets slapped here, it will be a dose of his own medicine. SWA is all for free enterprise until it has to compete...then they cry just as loudly as the "big" airlines do when their hub-and-spoke system costs too much to run efficiently.

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SWA will win this battle. And they are in no rush. The longer the better.

They'll keep making money, and AA will continue deeper into the red.

That's a pretty good strategy IMHO.

Just keep squeaking!

And don't forget the original intent of the act: The intent was to help growth at then-new Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport.

Also, groth at Love is limited, and even with the restrictions removed it can never offer the frequency of flights at D/FW.

What's D/FW afraid of?

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"What's D/FW afraid of?"

Lost revenue from decreased takeoff/landing fees...and they are in the same competition that everyone else is, biggest, busiest and assorted other "firsts".

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The "you can't use that airport, you must use this one" is a little Red China IMHO.

Uh - only one problem with that theory.... China didn't sign a contract with it's residents. DALLAS signed a contract - they agreed to uphold the Wright Amendment. Point still stands that Dallas is trying to back out of a contract that they willingly entered. And, the reason they're trying to get out of it is because they're afraid SWA will leave Dallas.

And, Hizzy is right.... SWA is basically on strike.... I don't know if SWA is going to win this or not. It's something they've been battling for decades to no avail so far. I hope it's never repealed because it screws over the city of FW and American Airlines - which is a MUCH larger employer in this area than SWA will ever be. I also agree with the whole Herb "Killatrain" comments. I don't like him because he whined and whined to kill the bullet trains because of what it was going to do to his precious SWA.... But, now that it's happening to him, he's pissed. I like SWA, but not the cattle call system they use. Sure, they're on time, but whoopy. I couldn't care less about that. I'd rather have good service, an assigned seat, and the service that AA offerse.

Personally, I think the Cattle Call seating on SWA is a security threat.... With AA or any other airline the flight crew knows not only who is on board, but what seat they're in. On SWA, if a terrorist were to make it on board, they could never look at the manifest and tell who was in what seat. That seems risky to me...

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The WA is outdated and only serves to protect AA's stronghold on D/FW and higher fares for the region. Southwest has remained neutral on the WA until the last couple of years.

All I can say is "only in Dallas/Ft. Worth would you see a silly battle like this".

The entire Metroplex needs to take sensitivty training.

As far as the cattle call seating being a security threat, the TSA and FAA would disagree. You can't get past security checkpoint without a boarding pass and positive ID match.

AA's woes are nothing new. In the mid-90s Crandell talked about AA going out of business if it could not be profitable.

FYI - Herb retired. Gary Kelly is CEO.

As far as the "super trains" go, don't forget, someone was planning to get rich on that scheme as well. It's all about the Benjamins no matter what mode of transportation you take.

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I can't blame SWA for wanting to preserve their business model, which includes using smaller airports when available. You have to give them credit for figuring out the business model to run an airline profitably - something that has escaped the traditional carriers. I don't care about assigned seats. It's still worth it to have the additional flexibility to change flights and not get socked with a $100 charge.

I think the idea of high speed trains was a non-starter to begin with for a number of reasons, not just SWA opposition.

Btw, it always seemed that DFW was a lot cheaper than IAH, at least based on comparisons with co-workers. My assumption was that it was due to competition between Delta and American, while IAH is dominated only by Continental. Of course, with Delta closing its hub, that may no longer be the case.

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i always found AA and CO to be about the same price for domestic, but would opt for the direct flight. but SW is cheaper, more flexible, and hobby is much closer for me.

if i'm flying international i would take continental, delta, or NW or one of their affiliates like Air France or KLM to keep my miles together. for this, AA was never cheaper then my other options, nor are there as many flights.

someday i'm going to take advantage of one of continental's last minute weekend deals to mexico...

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Uh - only one problem with that theory.... China didn't sign a contract with it's residents. DALLAS signed a contract - they agreed to uphold the Wright Amendment. Point still stands that Dallas is trying to back out of a contract that they willingly entered. And, the reason they're trying to get out of it is because they're afraid SWA will leave Dallas.

You keep saying that. I thought someone more knowledgable would have corrected you by now. OR, at the very least, I thought you would have attempted to visit another website to research the issue yourself. But, as usual, you spew out inaccurate statements, and try to pass them off as truth. You are ABSOLUTELY WRONG!

Let me break it down in simple terms for you.

Dallas is a municipality. Southwest Airlines is a Publically traded Corporation. One has nothing to do with the other. Dallas (city council/mayor) is not trying to break its agreement with Fort Worth. To the contrary, Dallas' Mayor (a member of DFW Airport's Board of Directors) has publically sided with DFW Airport to date. Southwest Airlines is spearheading the repeal effort and currently has no support from the City of Dallas in its efforts. Southwest Airlines is not a party to the the agreement between Dallas and Fort Worth. Thus, Southwest has no obligation to uphold its terms. Dallas is not trying to back out of anything. Do some research!

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Willy,

Very thorough post. And, I might add, very accurate. Even though some on this board believe no one else has ever lived in both cities, I haved lived in west Houston, Spring and The Woodlands, as WELL AS Duncanville, Las Colinas, Fort Worth and North Dallas, before currently settling in the Heights.

The dust up over the Wright Amendment got rather ugly in the late 80s and early 90s...threats of lawsuits and such...but, as usual, it died down again. Back then, Dallas was trying to get greedy and Ft Worth slapped them down. This time, it appears to be more of a SWA instigated flare up.

I think Mayor Kirk is correct. And this time FtW could do something about it. It is no longer the stepchild that it used to be. A family feud between Dallas and Ft Worth would hurt the entire Metroplex.

One thing that often gets left out of this is that Love is very hemmed in. Allowing airlines to fly to far away cities will bring in bigger jets, to the detriment of the neighborhood. Let's hope they get things worked out, preferably by telling SWA to butt out.

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Thanks... the article that I quoted was actually from 1997. It also talked about the other factor in the Wright Amendment - Noise Pollution. The people around Love have been effective so far in keeping large aircraft out of Love due to the noise issue.... Fort Worth has nearly doubled in size since the late 80's and, you're right, FW is no longer easily pushed around by Dallas since it is now the fastest growing large city in DFW... The growth is focused in the Tarrant Co. side now.... It has stopped being about the cities and started being a SWA vs. AA thing. But, FW is not going to let their interest in DFW go lightly. They'll fight to the death over it, as will AA and the other carriers at DFW. SWA has been unsuccessful so far and I don't think they will ever get it over turned.... It's just too big of a battle on too many fronts.... BUT THAT'S JUST MY OPINION SO DON'T ATTACK ME FOR IT... FOR THE RECORD - THAT IS NOT ME SPEWING FALSE FACTS. LOL

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Willy,

Very thorough post.  And, I might add, very accurate.  Even though some on this board believe no one else has ever lived in both cities, I haved lived in west Houston, Spring and The Woodlands, as WELL AS Duncanville, Las Colinas, Fort Worth and North Dallas, before currently settling in the Heights.

The dust up over the Wright Amendment got rather ugly in the late 80s and early 90s...threats of lawsuits and such...but, as usual, it died down again.  Back then, Dallas was trying to get greedy and Ft Worth slapped them down.  This time, it appears to be more of a SWA instigated flare up.

I think Mayor Kirk is correct.  And this time FtW could do something about it.  It is no longer the stepchild that it used to be.  A family feud between Dallas and Ft Worth would hurt the entire Metroplex. 

One thing that often gets left out of this is that Love is very hemmed in.  Allowing airlines to fly to far away cities will bring in bigger jets, to the detriment of the neighborhood.  Let's hope they get things worked out, preferably by telling SWA to butt out.

Love Field Airport has a master plan approved by all affected neighborhood associations, the City of Dallas, and the FAA, that limits the type/size of aircraft that can fly in and out of the airport. So, that's a non-issue! From your extensive experience in the Metroplex, I thought you whould have picked up on that one.

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SWA has been unsuccessful so far and I don't think they will ever get it over turned.... It's just too big of a battle on too many fronts.... BUT THAT'S JUST MY OPINION SO DON'T ATTACK ME FOR IT... FOR THE RECORD - THAT IS NOT ME SPEWING FALSE FACTS. LOL

Maybe this will change your opinion:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...ht.307d64f.html

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For those of you interested in finding out for yourself about Wright, Southwest, DFW Airport and the histories of Dallas and Fort Worth in the whole deal:

http://setlovefree.com/index.html

http://www.fightwright.org/index.html

713 to 214, are you a SWA employee? The first website you offer is a SWA website. I'm not sure abou the sponsor of the second website, but it curiously doesn't clearly state who sponsored/posted the second site.

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The Morning News article was interesting. I guess we can watch Republicans attack Republicans. In general, senators will not vote for a bill if the local senator is opposed to it. But, it appears that this one may have Texas reps on both sides of it, although both Texas senators look to be opposed. Could be interesting.

BTW, fightwright.org is just a front site for SWA, so I would be loathe to quote it as fact.

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Well, then both of those sites are SWA sponsered sites.... They also have a tv commercial dedicated to repealing the Wright Amendment.... I saw it tonight.

So, 713/214, are you a SWA employee - or have you ever been?

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A couple updates on the Wright Amendment:

1. Yesterday AA posted quarterly earnings of $58 Million, an indication that things are looking up for AA. They said the profit is due to the number of flyers finally exceeding the price of fuel.

2. State Senator John Ensign of Nevada has introduced a bill to repeal the Wright Amendment today, it's called The Right to Fly Act.

3. Meanwhile, Senators James Inhofe of Oklahoma and Tom Harkin of Iowa have introduced a bill to restrict all fights from Love Field, essentially shutting down Love Field in 3 years and requiring SWA to move to DFW. It's called the "True Competition Act".

There was a story on Good Morning Texas on Channel 8 just minutes ago that detailed all these points. Additionally, there has been an independent study by The Boyd Group that throws cold water on both SWA and AA claims over the Wright Amendment, stating that both sides are blowing it out of proportion.

"The first claim their study tested was that Dallas Love Field travel would expand dramatically if Wright passes. The study found the airport facility would actually limit expansion of Love Field. Location, gate limits, and street traffic will constrain Southwest's growth and in the long term put Love Field at a disadvantage.

Another claim it countered was that frequent flyers would choose Love Field over Dallas/Fort Worth. The study found as the population moves north and west from Dallas, Love Field is less convenient as a gateway. While Dallas and Park Cities flyers may find the airport closer, many others do not.

Researchers said when Legend Airlines and others added long distance flights in smaller jets from Love Field the experiment flopped.

As for the claim that repealing Wright would hurt American Airlines, the study found that Southwest would see a boost at Love Field, but their options would be limited there too. Travelers would have more options and access at D/FW.

The study found that Southwest's reliance on its shorter haul 737 fleet, would make it tough to compete with American Airlines in long haul markets.

Boyd Group researchers conclude if both airlines stay put and Wright is repealed, American Airlines has the best shot at dominance."

Like I've always said, SWA is waking a sleeping giant if they go head to head with AA. AA didn't become the world's largest airline by being nice and not fighting for their place in the market. Basically, it boils down to which Airline has contributed the most money to the most influential Senator's campaigns.

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I worked at Love when Legend began operations. All first class seats (50) with flights to NYC and DC.

Stupidity is the reason that bird could not fly.

And FWIW the 737 is no short haul aircrat. Southwest has non-stops from BWI to LAX. That's coast to coast.

I like what Herb had to say:

Southwest says it has no interest in moving to D/FW.

"That is like Wal-Mart saying to the hardware store, 'I have a nice piece of land next to my SuperCenter. Come over and compete and get sliced to death,' " Southwest chairman Herb Kelleher said Tuesday.

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I think Herb Kellerher has one of the best personalities of all the CEO's in the corp world. He's funny. But, I am sort of against the Wright Amendment repeal because I don't want to see SWA or AA hurt... I think the repeal will do more to hurt SWA than it will to help it. AA is going to go into "Walmart mode" if they repeal the amendment and I think that SWA is too small to compete with AA.... I know they're the underdog and everyone loves the underdog and all that. I just hate to see them forced to compete with AA and the other "big boys". I think the reason they've been so sucessful at Love is because they have filled a good niche there. I think it's a matter of "don't fix what isn't broken". I'm worried they're going to end up regretting the repeal if they actually do manage to win that battle. And, I call it a battle, because it will be the first of many in a long war if they get the Wright Amendment dumped.

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I think Herb Kellerher has one of the best personalities of all the CEO's in the corp world. He's funny. But, I am sort of against the Wright Amendment repeal because I don't want to see SWA or AA hurt... I think the repeal will do more to hurt SWA than it will to help it. AA is going to go into "Walmart mode" if they repeal the amendment and I think that SWA is too small to compete with AA.... I know they're the underdog and everyone loves the underdog and all that. I just hate to see them forced to compete with AA and the other "big boys". I think the reason they've been so sucessful at Love is because they have filled a good niche there. I think it's a matter of "don't fix what isn't broken". I'm worried they're going to end up regretting the repeal if they actually do manage to win that battle. And, I call it a battle, because it will be the first of many in a long war if they get the Wright Amendment dumped.

Southwest is the nation's most profitable airline. It has held that title for several years now. Additionally, many low fare/legacy carriers are now trying to duplicate Southwest's business practices. The company didn't achieve that status by making illconceived/miscalculated businness decisions. American, on the other hand, has had significant difficulty turning a profit during the past 6 years. This is due to many issues (i.e.labor disputes, fuel costs, too much investment in infrastructure). American, while the world's largest airline, is still trying to come back from the brink of bankruptcy, and its problems are a direct result of its business practices/corporate culture.

I doubt that many congressmen in Washington view Southwest as the underdog in this fight. They have established a track record that says "we know what we're doing, we know how to make money, we don't have to ask the government to bail us out, and we do all of these good things while providing the traveling public with some of the lowest airfares in the country." That makes the value of their "good will" skyrocket in the halls of congress. Now, American on the other hand, has been on the brink of filing bankruptcy, been forced to get rid of its CEO for what I characterize as bad business practices, had to request numerous government bailouts, had to request the president to step in to save it form its pilots and flight attendants unions striking. After considering all of that, you tell me who is going to be viewed more favorably in Washington.

American is not eager to go toe-to-toe with Southwest, as many may think. The track record of disputes between the two show Southwest beating American every time. Southwest is more liquid than AA, and as a result, is better positioned to withstand this fight. AA on the other hand is in the process of undrgoing some major changes in its business model. This fight over Love Field forces them to divert time, energy, and money to lobbying efforts as opposed to building their business. Believe me, AA (nor DFW Airport) wants this fight, and both are afraid of going up against Southwest.

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DeLay voices support of Wright repeal

01:18 PM CDT on Wednesday, July 20, 2005

By TODD J. GILLMAN / The Dallas Morning News Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON - The push to lift flight restrictions at Dallas

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This is such a joke. Just repeal it and be done with it. I suggest they close both airports and make us fly out of Houston or Austin.

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So what do y'all Dallas folks think of a Kansas and Oklahoma proposal to close Love Field?

It ain't going to happen. It was tried about 30 years ago, when Southwest first started. The parties went to court, and the courts sided with Southwest. That's why the Wright Amendment came into being in the first place. That proposed legislation is just political posturing.

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This is such a joke. Just repeal it and be done with it. I suggest they close both airports and make us fly out of Houston or Austin.

Fat chance! DFW International Airport is headquarters for the Worlds largest airline (AA), and Love Field is headquarters for the nation's most profitable (SW).

Houston should be concerned, though, with how repeal of the Wright Amendment will affect Southwest's operations at Hobby Airport. Because Southwest can't fly to most of the country directly from Love Field, the airline routes many connecting flights through Hobby. (i.e. to go to BWI from Dallas, one has to fly through Hobby first). As a result, Hobby is a pretty good size hub of traffic for Southwest. I would expect that to change once the restrictions are lifted.

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Worlds largest airline (AA)!

Yeah, that sure has not helped them much lately!

Kinda like the world's fattest man.

Too many Wharton MBAs at AA.

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DeLay voices support of Wright repeal

01:18 PM CDT on Wednesday, July 20, 2005

By TODD J. GILLMAN / The Dallas Morning News Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON - The push to lift flight restrictions at Dallas

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713 to 214, you still never answered the question of whether or not you or someone in your family works/worked for SWA... Just curious since the two websites you offered were SWA hosted/sponsored websites.

BTW, AA hasn't been "nearly bankrupt" for a couple years. They've posted lossed, but not huge losses. The last couple years they've been moving closer and closer to being int he black and yesterday - for the first time in 5 years - they posted a $58 Million profit for the quarter. It was all over the news today.

I personally don't want to see the amendment repealed because I think it will actually hurt everyone involved - DFW, Love, AA, and SWA. I don't think SWA can do much to expand at Love Field - it's too limited by space and there are noise restrictions that need to stay in place that will not allow larger aircraft to fly in/out of Love... Unlike DFW the planes at Love take off and land right over residential areas that are directly across the street from Love field. That is the most overlooked part of the Wright Amendment. Another thing that a lot of people don't think about/realize is that the take off/landing patterns for Love Field are directly over downtown Dallas.... I think there are FAA regulations/restrictions governing flights around downtown Dallas as well.... I don't know how that will be affected if Wright is repealed.

Another thing that I personally don't like about SWA is the security of flying in a cattle call system. I have only flown on SWA one time since 911 - and that's because I had a free voucher. The reason I don't like flying SWA post 911 is because they still offer cattle call seating on their planes. The last time I flew, I flew ticketless and just showed up at the gate with a picture ID and my voucher. They glanced at my ID and let me on board a plane that has no manifest with assigned seating. They may know who is on the plane, but in my opinion, the need to know what seat everyone is sitting in as well. How is a sky marshall going to intervene in mid air if he has a tip that there is a security threat on board, but can't tell what seat that person is in?

Anyway, this debate can go on forever... It's obvious that 713/214 has some very personal reasons for wanting the Wright Amendment repealed and that's fine. It's one of those things that will never be solved on this forum.

One more thing.... I don't think they should close Love Field. I'm not in favor of that at all. I think that would be a huge mistake. I don't think it would do anyone any good to put SWA and AA in the same airport. If SWA wants to stay at Love, the they should be allowed to stay there... That is where they have become so profitable after all... It would be unfair to SWA to force them to fly in/out of DFW. But, at the same time, I don't think the Amendment should be repealed because it completely screws over the City of FW.... FW is the entity that stands to lose the most in this whole ordeal. Dallas doesn't stand to lose anything.

If it's repealed expect the relationship between Dallas and FW to dry up very quickly and law suits to be filed.... even if it's overturned it will be long from over....

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713 to 214, you still never answered the question of whether or not you or someone in your family works/worked for SWA... Just curious since the two websites you offered were SWA hosted/sponsored websites.

WELL - since you never answered that question, then I'll just go ahead and assume the answer to that is YES. :)

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I did. Used to see Herb smoking in the elevators, Collen would stop by my office, great deck parties on Fridays.

It was a great place to work.

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Thanks to your efforts, we are one step closer to lifting the restrictions on Love Field. Chipping away at this antiquated law, Congress voted in November to add Missouri to the list of states that Love Field can serve nonstop. On December 13, 2005, Southwest proudly began service to Kansas City and St. Louis, with four nonstops each to and from Dallas Love Field. This is just the beginning and we still need your help throughout 2006 to repeal the Wright Amendment.

they are also chipping away at my nonstop flights from Hobby. STL was my most frequent destination on SW, a few of the flights go though LUV now, though there are still plenty of directs.

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Isn't it cheaper to fly into DFW than any airport Houston? Or are those just for tickets out of DFW?

Houston is normally cheaper, especially Internationally- Houston IAH has more international service, airlines and destinations (Yes DFW is much bigger domestically, but IAH is bigger Internationally)

On a side note - it's not a bad business model that is hurting American Airlines... It's high fuel cost. They are back to pre-911 numbers in terms of the number of people flying... but the cost of fuel is what is keeping them in the red.

Southwest hedged their fuel better and has a lower cost business model. Continental made money in two quarters last year (lost a bit for the year BTW) paying the same for fuel as AA.

I agree that AA could do some things to be more competitive. However, that doesn't change the facts surrounding the Wright Amendment - and how Dallas is trying to backout of their agreement with FW. Hey, I'm all for free enterprise. But whatever happened to having to uphold the legal obligations that a party willingly enters into? What good is a contract if you don't have to hold up your end of the bargain?

........

SWA should fly out of DFW to enable them to fly anywhere they want... They could do that tomorrow if their REAL interest was to increase their number of domestic destinations. They could keep their business model in place at DFW too... They didn't become the world's largest airline by being polite.

Southwest never had to move because it was an intrastate airline at the time. Then through the federal courst, Southwest won the right to fly from Love (via the supreme court) as long as it is open as an airport.

AA became the largest airline by being predatory, just look at Legend airlines. I am not saying that is bad, but look at the history. Southwest's real interest is to make money, as it is a business, not just to increase destinations. And Southwest could not just get 10 gates at DFW, they only offered 20 in a deal that Southwest did not want. (for the record I do not like Southwest much at all) but you have to look at the facts overall. You can find tons of debate at www.airliners.net

Edit, your point about Southwest not wanting AA to come in against them. Trust me, everytime AA has fought Southwest at Love, they have lost. Southwest kicked AA in the last attempt (at he same time AA killed Legend airlines)

Personally, I think the Cattle Call seating on SWA is a security threat.... With AA or any other airline the flight crew knows not only who is on board, but what seat they're in. On SWA, if a terrorist were to make it on board, they could never look at the manifest and tell who was in what seat. That seems risky to me...

No offence, but that is absurd. You are not required to sit in your assinged seat on other airlines. People swap and move all the time. I moved on my flight last Saturday for example. If a terriorist made it on the airplane you lose, it doesn't matter where he sits.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, Watching you from 30,000 feet

Edited by CaptAWACS

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I love Southwest. But they are not as innocent as they seem.

Example. Their IAH to DAL flights were always full. A couple continued on to Lubbock and Tulsa after stopping in Dallas. Granted, there were only 5-6 flights a day, but revenue seat mile worked well for them.

Then the DFW/AA/Wright Amendment war began.

Southwest said they could just not operate out of a large airport like DFW. It was not their business model.

Suddenly, Southwest pulled out of IAH siting "small customer loads".

IAH worked, but DFW won't? Yea right! Good job, Herb!

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