Houston TimeSquare?

[TowerSpotter]

If Houston where to have a Timesquare or Victory Park like place, where would be a good location for that?

 

 

Dallas Victory Park

 

 

 

New York CIty Timesquare

 

 

[largeTEXAS]

Notice not one person in the Victory Park image. There is no way Victory Park is at all comparable to Times Square. Times Square is the result of one of the busiest central subway hubs in the city, one of the busiest east-west streets in Manhattan - 42nd Street, one of the busiest north-south streets in Manhattan - Broadway. All the theaters, shops, corporate headquarters, hotels, etc are a result of traffic and exposure. Victory Park is a vanity project that's almost completely cut off from the rest of the city. It will never be Times Square. 

 

That said, if Houston were to ever build a central hub for transit that also intersected two of the busiest streets in the city, a successful mixed use "square" might work around it. I think Houston's one opportunity is the Sears/Metro/Fiesta site where the proposed University line will intersect the Red line. It's ripe for dense development and, although Richmond and Fannin are no Broadway and 42nd St, and the Red and University lines will never be the NYC subway, they are main thoroughfares in that part of town and probably will be the busiest transit lines. The site also gets a lot of exposure from 59. Hey, and it's seedy enough over there to remind some of the old Times Square, haha!

 

 

[lockmat]

The victory park image could have been taken at 3am

[TowerSpotter]

Notice not one person in the Victory Park image. There is no way Victory Park is at all comparable to Times Square. Times Square is the result of one of the busiest central subway hubs in the city, one of the busiest east-west streets in Manhattan - 42nd Street, one of the busiest north-south streets in Manhattan - Broadway. All the theaters, shops, corporate headquarters, hotels, etc are a result of traffic and exposure. Victory Park is a vanity project that's almost completely cut off from the rest of the city. It will never be Times Square. 

 

That said, if Houston were to ever build a central hub for transit that also intersected two of the busiest streets in the city, a successful mixed use "square" might work around it. I think Houston's one opportunity is the Sears/Metro/Fiesta site where the proposed University line will intersect the Red line. It's ripe for dense development and, although Richmond and Fannin are no Broadway and 42nd St, and the Red and University lines will never be the NYC subway, they are main thoroughfares in that part of town and probably will be the busiest transit lines. The site also gets a lot of exposure from 59. Hey, and it's seedy enough over there to remind some of the old Times Square, haha!

 

Well the only time Dallas Victory Park has a large crowd is when there's an event in the American Airlines Center or during the New Years. The developers are redeveloping the area to help improve it. As for Timesquare, it is a major iconic landmark where millions of people from all over the world go to every year offering a lot of attractions. Plus its is way bigger than Dallas Victory Park. I do like Dallas Victory Park more only because it is more organized and is cleaner. All it lacks is a daily crowd and maybe more superscreens on others sides of the streets.

 

I do think Midtown would host a perfect place for a Timesquared like area. It would be in the center of Houston downtown and medical center.

[Houston19514]

The victory park image could have been taken at 3am

 

Or 9 pm.   Victory Park is a dead zone.

[ChrisPHous]

Having lived in Dallas for 5 years I can tell you victory park is a joke. The first idea was to make it super luxury. Being next to a sports stadium, which is more blue collar, doesn't seem like a great idea. They had vacancies, and the restaurants that would take space were rotating more than the turnstiles at AAC.

The problem with this "gathering" space is te location it is walled off on 3 sides. The rail stop is about 1/2 a mile away where you cross nothing but parking lots and the streets around it have very little natural car traffic. Basically think of it's location as a culdesac in uptown

[ChrisPHous]

Having lived in Dallas for 5 years I can tell you victory park is a joke. The first idea was to make it super luxury. Being next to a sports stadium, which is more blue collar, doesn't seem like a great idea. They had vacancies, and the restaurants that would take space were rotating more than the turnstiles at AAC.

The problem with this "gathering" space is te location it is walled off on 3 sides. The rail stop is about 1/2 a mile away where you cross nothing but parking lots and the streets around it have very little natural car traffic. Basically think of it's location as a culdesac in uptown

[TowerSpotter]

Having lived in Dallas for 5 years I can tell you victory park is a joke. The first idea was to make it super luxury. Being next to a sports stadium, which is more blue collar, doesn't seem like a great idea. They had vacancies, and the restaurants that would take space were rotating more than the turnstiles at AAC.

The problem with this "gathering" space is te location it is walled off on 3 sides. The rail stop is about 1/2 a mile away where you cross nothing but parking lots and the streets around it have very little natural car traffic. Basically think of it's location as a culdesac in uptown

 

 

I agree, the problem is that its walled off on the 3 sides. I think it should have been out in the open for cars to pass in between, I bet with more time and the new developments it will become a great hot spot for people to gather. It is also missing the shopping experience and a lot of restaurants. 

[Houston19514]

I agree, the problem is that its walled off on the 3 sides. I think it should have been out in the open for cars to pass in between, I bet with more time and the new developments it will become a great hot spot for people to gather. It is also missing the shopping experience and a lot of restaurants. 

 

Disagree.  I think it's unlikely to ever be much of a hot spot.  As ChrisPHous said, it's basically a cul de sac.  The whole Victory Park development is poorly designed and poorly located.  They are currently trying to do some re-design, but it pretty much is all that it can be.

[jt16]

To answer the OP.  I've always thought around Westheimer/Montrose.  That would require some major street planning to make it happen, but I feel like that area wants to be more walkable as it is, and a walkable development would do very well there.

[largeTEXAS]

Notice not one person in the Victory Park image. There is no way Victory Park is at all comparable to Times Square. Times Square is the result of one of the busiest central subway hubs in the city, one of the busiest east-west streets in Manhattan - 42nd Street, one of the busiest north-south streets in Manhattan - Broadway. All the theaters, shops, corporate headquarters, hotels, etc are a result of traffic and exposure. Victory Park is a vanity project that's almost completely cut off from the rest of the city. It will never be Times Square. 

 

That said, if Houston were to ever build a central hub for transit that also intersected two of the busiest streets in the city, a successful mixed use "square" might work around it. I think Houston's one opportunity is the Sears/Metro/Fiesta site where the proposed University line will intersect the Red line. It's ripe for dense development and, although Richmond and Fannin are no Broadway and 42nd St, and the Red and University lines will never be the NYC subway, they are main thoroughfares in that part of town and probably will be the busiest transit lines. The site also gets a lot of exposure from 59. Hey, and it's seedy enough over there to remind some of the old Times Square, haha!

 

I'm going back on what I said a little. The corner of Westheimer and Post Oak is a prime location for something spectacular. Dillards, the shopping center on NE corner, that part of the Galleria, and the old Sakowitz property and shopping center will all need to be redeveloped in the next 5-10 years. If Houston ever figures out a way to build transit along/under/above Westheimer and the Post Oak BRT/LRT is built well, that intersection and the surrounding properties could develop into something very cool. Not Times Square, but maybe something like Singapore's Orchard Street, one of the many areas in Hong Kong like Hennessy Rd near Paterson, or maybe parts of Florida St in Buenos Aires. 

[swtsig]

victory park seems to have the exact same problem as greenstreet here in town - totally self enclosed and cut off from any natural pedistrian activity. in fact, how is VP anything remotely similar to time square??? b/c it has bright neon signs and large screens? other than that they are nothing alike.

[Hugh Stone]

Where Greenstreet faces the Red Line and whatever they will be turning the old Foley's building into is more like time square than Victory. That's not saying much, except as disappointing as Greenstreet may be today, at least it is in the center of town, within easy walking distance of thousands of office workers, GRB, stadium crowds and the area it is built in isn't cut off from anything. Greenstreet has more potential than Victory ever will - at least within the next decade.

 

What were all these developers thinking as they were throwing millions of dollars into these self enclosed fortresses? 

 

On the bright side, it looks like the new owners are going to attempt to make Greenstreet less self enclosed and for what its worth, the COH is pushing to turn that area around Dallas St. into some kind of retail district.

 

 

[TowerSpotter]

Notice not one person in the Victory Park image. There is no way Victory Park is at all comparable to Times Square. Times Square is the result of one of the busiest central subway hubs in the city, one of the busiest east-west streets in Manhattan - 42nd Street, one of the busiest north-south streets in Manhattan - Broadway. All the theaters, shops, corporate headquarters, hotels, etc are a result of traffic and exposure. Victory Park is a vanity project that's almost completely cut off from the rest of the city. It will never be Times Square. 

 

That said, if Houston were to ever build a central hub for transit that also intersected two of the busiest streets in the city, a successful mixed use "square" might work around it. I think Houston's one opportunity is the Sears/Metro/Fiesta site where the proposed University line will intersect the Red line. It's ripe for dense development and, although Richmond and Fannin are no Broadway and 42nd St, and the Red and University lines will never be the NYC subway, they are main thoroughfares in that part of town and probably will be the busiest transit lines. The site also gets a lot of exposure from 59. Hey, and it's seedy enough over there to remind some of the old Times Square, haha!

 

I just remembered one of wxman's old post on midtown mixed-use. It was or is suppose to a "Transit-oriented mixed-use development". It's interesting that you mentioned Sears/Metro/Fiesta because that land it would have been built on and would have been over Fiesta and Sears. Anyways  that means they would demolish Fiesta and Sears, which would be great. 

 

Edit:

 

The Site of Midtown Crossing

 

 

 

Midtown Crossing Rendering

 

 

[TowerSpotter]

Edit: deleted it was a duplicate

[lockmat]

Ive never seen that first map...where did you get that??? I didn't even know that was the name of that development

[TowerSpotter]

Ive never seen that first map...where did you get that??? I didn't even know that was the name of that development

 

I just highlighted the area it would be on with google maps and thats what I assume it would be called since it says "Midtown Crossing on the bottom right.

 

 

[largeTEXAS]

I just highlighted the area it would be on with google maps and thats what I assume it would be called since it says "Midtown Crossing on the bottom right.

 

 

 

Nice; reminds me a little of OMA's winning proposal for a mixed use project in downtown Santa Monica (images below):

 

 

 

[Naviguessor]

I wouldn't mind a big, bright, in your face, over the top, tacky, commercial zone right there at Wheeler. If it has to be somewhere, that is. A sort of relief valve so the rest of our central core can be spared. Actually...our version of Tme Square would be perfect there. I always considered this area the epicenter of Houston transit (Richmond, wheeler, main st, 59, LR). The university line would certainly make it so.

[bachanon]

a "times square" like area for houston would need to be downtown, walking distance from discovery green, rail stops, the ever improving buffalo bayou corridor, and a good concentration of hotel rooms.  preferably (for me) near a new intermodal terminal with great views of the skyline, like the post office location for instance.

[lockmat]

I just highlighted the area it would be on with google maps and thats what I assume it would be called since it says "Midtown Crossing on the bottom right.

Nice work!

But where did you get your information that it would be on those blocks? If so, they'd have to close off and redirect some streets, so it seems to me.

[TowerSpotter]

Nice work!

But where did you get your information that it would be on those blocks? If so, they'd have to close off and redirect some streets, so it seems to me.

 

Well if you compare shapes of the buildings on rendering to the ones on the maps, you'll see they are the same shapes. (from the top view)

 

Yea the streets would have to be redirected, fannin and san jacinto would have meet up and split up.

[Porchman]

Where Greenstreet faces the Red Line and whatever they will be turning the old Foley's building into is more like time square than Victory. That's not saying much, except as disappointing as Greenstreet may be today, at least it is in the center of town, within easy walking distance of thousands of office workers, GRB, stadium crowds and the area it is built in isn't cut off from anything. Greenstreet has more potential than Victory ever will - at least within the next decade.

What were all these developers thinking as they were throwing millions of dollars into these self enclosed fortresses?

On the bright side, it looks like the new owners are going to attempt to make Greenstreet less self enclosed and for what its worth, the COH is pushing to turn that area around Dallas St. into some kind of retail district.

Please don't go so far to suggest that large, electronic signs be mounted on Greenstreet. That could derail this thread.

When I think Times Square hoo-ha in Houston, I think of TillmanLand and Bayou Place. You already have electronic whoop and open spaces with attractions. Make retail viable and you closed the loop functionally. Structurally, create a wide connection between the Aquarium and Bayou Place elevated above the Memorial-Texas-Bagby intersection. Also, if somebody launches on vision for the post office site you extend another promenade over Preston (stopping on the ground shortly to visit with the bronze of Bush 41) and

vaulting again over Congress).

Unlike Victory Park which is being developed around a seasonal sports venue, this would be tangent to the theater district, which does business year-round, and some of the largest business towers in Houston.

[Hugh Stone]

It would be cool if Greenstreet would install some large electronic signs facing Main St. Then it would look better than Time Square! 

[lockmat]

Nm

[TowerSpotter]

It would be cool if Greenstreet would install some large electronic signs facing Main St. Then it would look better than Time Square! 

 

I think it would be great to do that to but doubt it would be better that timesquare.

[Hugh Stone]

You were right, Porchman.

 

[LTAWACS]

I think if we install enough lights and neon signs it would be better than The Ginza in Tokyo.

[TowerSpotter]

I think if we install enough lights and neon signs it would be better than The Ginza in Tokyo.

 

Are you talking about the pavilions, if not where?

[LTAWACS]

Greenstreet.