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102-Story Tower Planned


lockmat

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New information? This is from City-Data, of all places.

"The Houston planning commission recently has been reported of a 102 story mixed use tower including hotel, residential, and minor office component. The tower is allegedly between 1,200-1,400 feet. The developer has yet to submit his bid on the tower but is actively in the conceptual phases for it. They're looking to next year for further information on it."

"You got it right, it's still in the discussion phase. They're waiting until next year to negotiate the tax increments Downtown with city hall and formally submitting their bid to the planning commission, if that's the route they want to go with their development."

"Not yet, like the Seattle and Dallas supertalls to be, this one is also in it's infancy stage. Next year there will be more physical details and a possible first conceptual rendering."

http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-vs-city/2010443-houston-lightrail-vs-phoenix-lightrail-2.html

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It sounds like the person saw this thread and summarized the spec in this thread in one post. Someone should tell him this is still rumor.

Actually the guy mentioned a couple of new things that we didn't know such as pointing out what the components are and he actually gives the status with certainty. Whoever this guy is, I hope he is a good source.

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Just asked him for more detail. 

 

 

Actually yeah, I read that entire thread and looked around all over the Internet for the supertall in Houston. I had asked someone about the supertall back in October when I first saw that thread on Houston Architecture but didn't get anything concrete. I found someone talking about it on another forum (Dallas Metropolis, a Dallas guy "in the know") and asked them directly about it. Everything pretty much in my post is what he told me. I don't know whether to go with it or not yet but his argument was logical that there are people interested in making it happen, especially while skyscrapers are cheaper to build due to price of materials. However he told me there isn't anything concrete on it just yet and that it's still in it's infancy and hasn't reached the planning commission yet. By the way, I also asked him if this was planned for Downtown Dallas and he told me it wasn't the flight path that nixed it for them. They didn't think it could fill up in Dallas.  He told me we'll be hearing more details about it in 2014 and whether or not it goes through or not. He says that the Houston commission is well aware of the interest in this project and that the developer is trying to work on his approach. 
 

 

As for the Ritz-Carlton, yeah I can definitely say that one is right around the corner. I know a legit source on Ritz-Carlton and a few other luxury hotel brands. I asked him about a number of luxury hotel brands and if they plan on expanding into Houston. He told me Ritz-Carlton is looking in Downtown Houston and Uptown but chances are will go with Downtown Houston and they wont be far from the convention center. I believe the one planned for BLVD Place was 46 stories from what I counted off the rendering and what he told me sounds about the same height. It will be in the 40 stories and up area.

Also he didn't specify what exactly but he said to keep my eyes open for other hotel brands building in Houston. Not things like Courtyard or any of that but upscale hotels. There are a few more shopping around Houston that we'll be hearing of in a matter of a few months.

Sorry for any mix-up and that I couldn't be of more help, this is all I know. I'm just as hell-bent as others in Houston about these things. I may not live in Houston anymore but I'm constantly reading about it and I'm sending out emails frequently to find out more about the unknown projects.
From Red John.
 
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I know many want parking lots gone and blocks downtown filled up and think a supertall will make that process slower. But couldn't it also be that a 100-story tower could attract more projects downtown? Maybe instead of going uptown or down I-10 that a few more companies might start to rethink and build in the cbd instead?

Just a thought.

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Wow. Would be pretty amazing if this actually had legs. A tower that is 1,400 feet would dwarf anything near by. In fact, it would be taller than both the old and new World Trade Center building(s)

 

Only if you ignore the spire on the new One World Trade Center.

 

It would almost be a shame to build it at 1400 feet, leaving it only 51 feet short of overtaking Willis Tower.

 

In any event, it would indeed be amazing if this was real.

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*If* this is indeed planned, it has the possibility of being:

 

- The tallest in Houston and in Texas (duh)

- The tallest west of the Mississippi

- The tallest outside of NYC and Chicago

- The 5th building at or above 100-floors in the U.S

- The 1st building at or above 100-floors outside of NYC and Chicago in the U.S

- The tallest mixed-use tower in the U.S

- In the top 5 or top 10 list of tallest mixed-use towers in the world.

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*If* this is indeed planned, it has the possibility of being:

 

- The tallest in Houston and in Texas (duh)

- The tallest west of the Mississippi

- The tallest outside of NYC and Chicago

- The 5th building at or above 100-floors in the U.S

- The 1st building at or above 100-floors outside of NYC and Chicago in the U.S

- The tallest mixed-use tower in the U.S

- In the top 5 or top 10 list of tallest mixed-use towers in the world.

It would be the 3rd tallest in the Americas (if it were 1,400ft.).

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I know many want parking lots gone and blocks downtown filled up and think a supertall will make that process slower. But couldn't it also be that a 100-story tower could attract more projects downtown? Maybe instead of going uptown or down I-10 that a few more companies might start to rethink and build in the cbd instead?Just a thought.

I think the parking spots on that side of town are going to be goners anyway. A lot of residential popping up east of main.

I Dunno, a building that tall would definitely change the symmetry of downtown.

But as you say, it would be nice if it was built and attracted more development.

It's a shame that the first and second biggest companies in Texas, chose suburban campuses instead of building downtown, but cest la vie.

102 floors!!!!! That would be something.

Chase stands out a lot and its on the tall side of downtown. A 102 floor on that of town would Look sooo much taller. Would do some Williams tower kind of sticking out

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Exocet those 20 5-stories are in the Energy Corridor.

Still don't understand that stupid name. It's like calling east downtown "eado". Should be called simply "west Houston". Either way, the designs of all those boxes in west Houston are simply horrendous.

I agree with the poster who mentioned moat future projects will or should include mixed use. Would make the project less risky.

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102 floors!!!!! That would be something.

Chase stands out a lot and its on the tall side of downtown. A 102 floor on that of town would Look sooo much taller. Would do some Williams tower kind of sticking out

 

It would surely be prominent, but it actually wouldn't stick out anywhere near as much as Williams Tower.  This (perhaps fantasy) tower would be about 40% taller than both 600 Travis Street and Wells Fargo, which are both within about 2/3rds of a mile from the likely site of such a building.  Plus at least 7 other buildings downtown are more than 1/2 of the height of the fantasy tower, all less than 1 mile from the likely site.

 

Compare to Williams Tower in Uptown:   The second tallest building in the entire Uptown area is San Felipe Plaza.  There is a greater relative height difference between San Felipe and Williams than between 600 Travis and the fantasy tower plus they are separated by 1.5 miles, compared to .5 mile.  Likewise with the 3rd tallest building in Uptown, Marathon.  Williams is 60% taller and they are separated by more than 1 mile.  And those are the only 2 buildings in the entire area that are more than 1/2 the height of Williams.  Other than those two, the nearest buildings that are almost 1/2 as tall as Williams Tower are the 4 Leaf Towers and they are almost 1 mile distant.  

 

Within a 2/3rd mile radius of Williams, the tallest building is the Mercer condos  400 ft tall....  Williams is 2.25 x the height of Mercer.  After that you drop down to Dominion Post Oak... 351 feet.  Williams is more than 2.5x the height of Dominion.  After that, it drops off to a whole bunch of buildings that are closer to 1/3rd the height of Williams (and less.)

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Still don't understand that stupid name. It's like calling east downtown "eado". Should be called simply "west Houston". Either way, the designs of all those boxes in west Houston are simply horrendous.

I agree with the poster who mentioned moat future projects will or should include mixed use. Would make the project less risky.

 

you do realize that mixed use projects - particularly those of that scale - are by their very nature exponentially more risky, don't you?

 

wait a minute - of course you don't.

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you do realize that mixed use projects - particularly those of that scale - are by their very nature exponentially more risky, don't you?

 

wait a minute - of course you don't.

 

Wait...  How does building a 102 floor building with only residential/commercial lease or hotel count as less risky?  Please explain.

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I understand how a mixed-use building is risky, but when building 1,000+ feet it makes sense to not hedge all of your bets onto the same pot.  Why not add a hotel and some residential to it?  Besides, how many corporations actually need 101 (assuming ground floor is not a part of the space) floors?

 

Sears?

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I know.  It was a rhetorical question.

 

The last single use 100+ floor building built in this country was the Sears Tower.  Trumps building in Chicago has a hotel and other mixed-use components to it.  And its the second tallest building in Chicago?  Behind Sears...er...What'chu Talk'n Bout Willis?

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I know.  It was a rhetorical question.

 

The last single use 100+ floor building built in this country was the Sears Tower.  Trumps building in Chicago has a hotel and other mixed-use components to it.  And its the second tallest building in Chicago?  Behind Sears...er...What'chu Talk'n Bout Willis?

 

Isn't Trump's Chicago building just hotel and residences?

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b/c you two are looking at it from strictly a layman's perspective - oh, let's spread the risk around over a couple different uses and voila... risk averted! unfortunately that's not where the risk comes from.

 

the reality is that developing a massive mixed use project takes significantly more resources, expertise, wherewithall and usually money to pull off successfully. different components have different financing requirements based on entirely different criteria that all need to make sense to a myriad of investors with different objectives; the develpoment team(s) need to all share the same objectives in their decision making and work cohesively - the retail team can't make decisions based strictly on the retail component and ignore the others, etc. design-wise each component needs to be designed as a part of a greater whole with a myriad of logisitcal issues that require more time, man hours and $$$$ to address in design, construction and execution. you need more due diligence, in-depth marketing studies, feasibility studies, financing requirements, etc that add layers upon layers of risk.

 

it's easy to sit back and say let's just divide up a massive tower into multiple uses to spread the risk across different product lines but all things remaining equal a single use project is much less risky to develop than a mixed use one. 

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The same holds true for any size real estate venture.

 

Just playing Devils Advocate... Answer me this: How many single use 100+ floor buildings are currently either under construction or in use worldwide?

 

An even better question would be how many "supertalls" are actually successful projects?  I think I read something about Willis/Sears a few years ago that when Sears moved and sold its interests the tower had large portions empty (I could be wrong).  Burj Khalifi/Dubai is around 40% empty (if not more).  Not every company is going to want to lease space on the 70th or 80th floor.  The same as people won't always want to live on that high of a floor.  Supertall buildings are inherently much more risky than a standard 40 floor building.

 

Trump Chicago is just hotel and condo, but that is still 2 uses.  Chicago also has a much healthier highrise living market than Houston.  Though it appears we're about to see quite a few new places.

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It would surely be prominent, but it actually wouldn't stick out anywhere near as much as Williams Tower. This (perhaps fantasy) tower would be about 40% taller than both 600 Travis Street and Wells Fargo, which are both within about 2/3rds of a mile from the likely site of such a building. Plus at least 7 other buildings downtown are more than 1/2 of the height of the fantasy tower, all less than 1 mile from the likely site.

Compare to Williams Tower in Uptown: The second tallest building in the entire Uptown area is San Felipe Plaza. There is a greater relative height difference between San Felipe and Williams than between 600 Travis and the fantasy tower plus they are separated by 1.5 miles, compared to .5 mile. Likewise with the 3rd tallest building in Uptown, Marathon. Williams is 60% taller and they are separated by more than 1 mile. And those are the only 2 buildings in the entire area that are more than 1/2 the height of Williams. Other than those two, the nearest buildings that are almost 1/2 as tall as Williams Tower are the 4 Leaf Towers and they are almost 1 mile distant.

Within a 2/3rd mile radius of Williams, the tallest building is the Mercer condos 400 ft tall.... Williams is 2.25 x the height of Mercer. After that you drop down to Dominion Post Oak... 351 feet. Williams is more than 2.5x the height of Dominion. After that, it drops off to a whole bunch of buildings that are closer to 1/3rd the height of Williams (and less.)

Chase sticks out right smack in the SKYLINE DISTRICT and this building if built would be in an area where the tallest buildings are half as task as the tallest in the SKYLINE DISTRICT.

For reference One Park Place would be only 1/3 the height of this tower and OPP is a prominent tower. The tower would be almost 3 times the height of the Lyondell Basell tower, the Fulbright Tower or the Houston center towers. The Four seasons is only 30 floors. And let's not forget the George RBrown. GRB covers 11 blocks so it is a huge fixture in that area. At 100 feet GRB would bee almost 15 times shorter.

You would probably have to take pictures from the beltway in order for a building that tall in that location to not stand out.

Coming in from 45N Chase sticks out from past 610 and this would be 400 feet taller than chase. That's like placing Pennzoil Place on top of Chase.

That's double the height of Shell Plaza our Heritage Plaza.

Standing out is not necessarily a bad thing (especially if the building is nicely done) but Ray Charles could tell you that a building that tall would stand out on that side of downtown

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Chase sticks out right smack in the SKYLINE DISTRICT and this building if built would be in an area where the tallest buildings are half as task as the tallest in the SKYLINE DISTRICT.

For reference One Park Place would be only 1/3 the height of this tower and OPP is a prominent tower. The tower would be almost 3 times the height of the Lyondell Basell tower, the Fulbright Tower or the Houston center towers. The Four seasons is only 30 floors. And let's not forget the George RBrown. GRB covers 11 blocks so it is a huge fixture in that area. At 100 feet GRB would bee almost 15 times shorter.

You would probably have to take pictures from the beltway in order for a building that tall in that location to not stand out.

Coming in from 45N Chase sticks out from past 610 and this would be 400 feet taller than chase. That's like placing Pennzoil Place on top of Chase.

That's double the height of Shell Plaza our Heritage Plaza.

Standing out is not necessarily a bad thing (especially if the building is nicely done) but Ray Charles could tell you that a building that tall would stand out on that side of downtown

 

Please, Chase AND Wells sticks out far past 610. On a clear day when on top of The Woodlands flyover from 45 to Woodlands Pkwy, you can see both those towers sticking up. Plus, most days you can easily see Chase, Wells and even Continental sticking up from the FM 2920 on 45 heading south.

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Chase sticks out right smack in the SKYLINE DISTRICT and this building if built would be in an area where the tallest buildings are half as task as the tallest in the SKYLINE DISTRICT.

For reference One Park Place would be only 1/3 the height of this tower and OPP is a prominent tower. The tower would be almost 3 times the height of the Lyondell Basell tower, the Fulbright Tower or the Houston center towers. The Four seasons is only 30 floors. And let's not forget the George RBrown. GRB covers 11 blocks so it is a huge fixture in that area. At 100 feet GRB would bee almost 15 times shorter.

You would probably have to take pictures from the beltway in order for a building that tall in that location to not stand out.

Coming in from 45N Chase sticks out from past 610 and this would be 400 feet taller than chase. That's like placing Pennzoil Place on top of Chase.

That's double the height of Shell Plaza our Heritage Plaza.

Standing out is not necessarily a bad thing (especially if the building is nicely done) but Ray Charles could tell you that a building that tall would stand out on that side of downtown

 

:unsure:   Nobody ever said it wouldn't stand out.  In fact, I specifically said it would indeed be prominent.

 

But you told us it would do some Williams Tower kind of sticking out.   That is simply false.  As I demonstrated, when one compares the relative heights and proximities of the other downtown buildings and then compare relative heights and proximities of the Uptown buildings to Williams Tower, it is abundantly obvious that it would not stand out anything like Williams Tower (which was your initial claim).  Not even close.  FWIW It wouldn't even stand out as much as the 845' Devon Energy Center does in Oklahoma City.

 

(And 1400' would not  be double the height of Heritage Plaza, nor even One Shell Plaza (quite close on Shell, but not quite double.)

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