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How Tall Will Hines' New Tower Grow?  

102 members have voted

  1. 1. How many floors will Hines' new building have ultimately?

    • 41-49
      13
    • 50-59
      35
    • 60-69
      25
    • 70-79
      8
    • 80-89
      6
    • 90-99
      1
    • 100+
      12


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I'm curious to know if the 100+ voters are hoping/guessing or have knowledge :)

 

haha, it does say the building will be "much larger" than the original proposal, but i cant really see them doubling the height.  it just seems a bit dramatic of an increase.

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I'm just guessing. It sounds so right though. I'll go on to guess it'll be around 1.3 Mil Sq Ft. Although he says "Much larger" I don't see it increasing by more then 50% when it comes to square feet and 150 feet when it comes to height compared to their original proposal.

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People seem to not realize just how much that crown adds on top! If you look at the schematics, that crown adds nearly 9 "floors" to the building! So if it were a 59 story building, we're talking about nearly a 68-story-looking building with that crown.

 

This: http://www.colvilloffice.com/colvill_new/609/plans/hr_plan.png

Edited by Triton
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People seem to not realize just how much that crown adds on top! If you look at the schematics, that crown adds nearly 9 "floors" to the building! So if it were a 59 story building, we're talking about nearly a 68-story-looking building with that crown.

 

This: http://www.colvilloffice.com/colvill_new/609/plans/hr_plan.png

 

oh wow, i didnt realize the crown was 9 floors. its sloped more than i thought. you dont think they will implement floors into the crown as part of the expansion? hopefully not for the sake of the height.. heh. my 62 floors is still plausible at 850 feet seeing as Fountain Place in Dallas is 62 floors and only 720 feet tall. though judging by the hight/floor ratio of BG Place, my estimate is probably either a little short (hopefully), or too many floors. i cant wait till the end of the year to find out the final plans. 

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oh wow, i didnt realize the crown was 9 floors. its sloped more than i thought. you dont think they will implement floors into the crown as part of the expansion? hopefully not for the sake of the height.. heh. my 62 floors is still plausible at 850 feet seeing as Fountain Place in Dallas is 62 floors and only 720 feet tall. though judging by the hight/floor ratio of BG Place, my estimate is probably either a little short (hopefully), or too many floors. i cant wait till the end of the year to find out the final plans. 

 

I think office building floor heights have generally gotten quite a bit taller since Fountain Place was built.  See also, the new Devon tower in Oklahoma City -- 50 floors and 850 feet tall.

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If they increase the number of floors/height oh, let's just say... 25% for fun and really want this baby to stand out, they will probably want to increase the crown height in proportion or even greater so it flows/matches the design.. So you could potentially see a crown that is somewhere around ~12 stories.  I can dream right?

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I think office building floor heights have generally gotten quite a bit taller since Fountain Place was built.  See also, the new Devon tower in Oklahoma City -- 50 floors and 850 feet tall.

 

very true, which is why i went back and compared it to BG Place (Hines most recent downtown tower). im sure my estimate is off, its just fun to guess.. i wasnt trying to be scientific about it when i first guessed. but if i could redo my guess i would keep it at 850 feet, but drop the floor count to 56

 

If they increase the number of floors/height oh, let's just say... 25% for fun and really want this baby to stand out, they will probably want to increase the crown height in proportion or even greater so it flows/matches the design.. So you could potentially see a crown that is somewhere around ~12 stories.  I can dream right?

i was thinking this too when i was replying last night. that would make sense that they increase the overall proportions of the whole building, increasing the height of the crown. 

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I'm dreaming here BUT.... What if Hines plans to make this the tallest building. It's rare to go ahead on a tower without a major tenant. Making an iconic skyscraper for a city on the other hand may cause companies to consider this the place to go!

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Does Houston have any buildings of what cre people would call Class AA? Just wondering how height correlates to this standard.

Location, level of service, amenities and finishes are much more important than height. Of course, high end amenities are more likely in larger buildings because the cost is spread out.

Stream tried to market the BBVA Compass building as a class AA, but that is a joke. It doesn't have any of the amenities that most new class A buildings have these days.

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Why?

What Houston needs are buildings that can get stabilized quickly. We don't need more buildings that sit empty for years and scare investors away again.

 

Maybe he meant Houston needs 100+ buildings?  In that case he may be on to something as he didn't specify the function or size of buildings.  I'd argue that we need 100+ buildings of varying services at any given time here in Houston.

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Location, level of service, amenities and finishes are much more important than height. Of course, high end amenities are more likely in larger buildings because the cost is spread out.

Stream tried to market the BBVA Compass building as a class AA, but that is a joke. It doesn't have any of the amenities that most new class A buildings have these days.

 

What Class A amenities is BBVA Compaass Plaza lacking?

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What Class A amenities is BBVA Compaass Plaza lacking?

It doesn't have any amenities... Their brochure actually counts the glass facade and the parking garage as amenities. They also count the restaurants on the ground floor (under the parking garage, at the other end of the site). However, a cafeteria where the common folk can have lunch is more of an amenity than a high-end fine dining restaurant.

3009 Post Oak has conferencing facilities, 609 Main will as well, plus it will have in-building cafeteria and a fitness center. You have to have those if you want to call yourself class AA.

Edited by fernz
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It doesn't have any amenities... Their brochure actually counts the glass facade and the parking garage as amenities. They also count the restaurants on the ground floor (under the parking garage, at the other end of the site). However, a cafeteria where the common folk can have lunch is more of an amenity than a high-end fine dining restaurant.

3009 Post Oak has conferencing facilities, 609 Main will as well, plus it will have in-building cafeteria and a fitness center. You have to have those if you want to call yourself class AA.

 

Okay, now you've told us what it lacks to be Class AA.  (FWIW, I'm not buying that Class AA requires an in-building cafeteria and fitness center.)   I ask again, what Class A amenities does it lack?

 

FWIW, here is the definition of Class A according to the Building Ownwers and Managers Association:

 

According to BOMA, Class A office buildings have the "most prestigious buildings competing for premier office users with rents above average for the area." BOMA states that Class A facilities have "high quality standard finishes, state of the art systems, exceptional accessibility and a definite market presence."

Edited by Houston19514
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Okay, now you've told us what it lacks to be Class AA.  (FWIW, I'm not buying that Class AA requires an in-building cafeteria and fitness center.)   I ask again, what Class A amenities does it lack?

 

FWIW, here is the definition of Class A according to the Building Ownwers and Managers Association:

 

According to BOMA, Class A office buildings have the "most prestigious buildings competing for premier office users with rents above average for the area." BOMA states that Class A facilities have "high quality standard finishes, state of the art systems, exceptional accessibility and a definite market presence."

Classification is very subjective and not really worth debating. That said a Class "AA" building would ABSOLUTELY have to have a caferteria and fitness facility. The fact that 2200 doesn't have either removes it from any Class "AA" discussion.

back to the topic at hand - anyone expecting a significant height increase for 609 will be disappointed.

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Classification is very subjective and not really worth debating. That said a Class "AA" building would ABSOLUTELY have to have a caferteria and fitness facility. The fact that 2200 doesn't have either removes it from any Class "AA" discussion.

 

 

So, there are approximately zero Class AA multi-tenant office buildings in Houston currently?   Approximately zero in all of Texas?

 

But, fwiw, I'd really still like to know what Class A amenities BBVA Compass Plaza is missing.

Edited by Houston19514
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So, there are approximately zero Class AA multi-tenant office buildings in Houston currently?   Approximately zero in all of Texas?

a. let's replace "cafeteria" with "affordable dining facilities"

b. there are several

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a. let's replace "cafeteria" with "affordable dining facilities"

b. there are several

 

Ahhh... the rules evolve.  ;-)    FWIW, the idea that a "cafeteria" was required to be Class AA was my primary quibble.  Suffice to say, the definition is not nearly as precise as you pretend.

 

Class AA (even more than the other building classes) is a marketing term and really not much more than that.  There are no specific rules, other than it has to be Class A+.  It is not uncommon to see it used in Houston and even more so elsewhere in Texas (Dallas especially) to market buildings that lack the amenities you say are required for the designation.

Edited by Houston19514
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I'm dreaming here BUT.... What if Hines plans to make this the tallest building. It's rare to go ahead on a tower without a major tenant. Making an iconic skyscraper for a city on the other hand may cause companies to consider this the place to go!

 

Thats what I was thinking. Why can't Houston build anything that tall when cities all over the world and here in the USA that are not doing as great as Houston are building them? Something needs to change look of the Houston skyline, its looked pretty much the same my whole life!

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Thats what I was thinking. Why can't Houston build anything that tall when cities all over the world and here in the USA that are not doing as great as Houston are building them? Something needs to change look of the Houston skyline, its looked pretty much the same my whole life!

Not exactly a compelling reason to build a signature tower. I don't think that Houston is going to get a tower like that anytime soon because of public perception. The only potential tenants for that kind of building in Houston are oil companies. Oil companies don't want to engage in that kind of conspicuous spending because of the amount of discussion that it would start about their profits. Look at what Chevron is doing, they are building inexpensive and cheap. It's all about staying under the radar.

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Not exactly a compelling reason to build a signature tower. I don't think that Houston is going to get a tower like that anytime soon because of public perception. The only potential tenants for that kind of building in Houston are oil companies. Oil companies don't want to engage in that kind of conspicuous spending because of the amount of discussion that it would start about their profits. Look at what Chevron is doing, they are building inexpensive and cheap. It's all about staying under the radar.

 

I could see a foreign company doing it.  Remember Deyaar's expensive dirt in uptown?  Look who's the name tenant on Hines' last skyscraper -- BG Gas, a foreign company.  There are many companies in the Middle East and Asia that would likely enjoy the publicity of a tall skyscraper in downtown Houston....Koreans, Qataris, Emiratis perhaps? 

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I could see a foreign company doing it.  Remember Deyaar's expensive dirt in uptown?  Look who's the name tenant on Hines' last skyscraper -- BG Gas, a foreign company.  There are many companies in the Middle East and Asia that would likely enjoy the publicity of a tall skyscraper in downtown Houston....Koreans, Qataris, Emiratis perhaps? 

 

Good point.  I would agree that best candidate is probably a company from a developing region that is looking to make a statement in the energy industry.

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i totally agree with the possibility of the next supertall coming from a foreign company. its strange, but in a way fitting for Houston.. what other big name energy companies are out there? i know many of the large foreign companies are government owned, im not sure how that would effect them building a tower in another country. the middle east is a safe bet to assume, but there are loads of potential in the south american oil fields and asian gas fields so who knows.

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Well I guess even my office could be considered Class AA, because we have a gym (with personal trainer, sauana, showers, etc.), and a cafeteria, yet the building is dated and looks like crap. But I guess you can't find anything better in a 10 mile radius.

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I spoke with a guy who is a structural engineer on this project, he did not disclose the height but did tell me the building will be 52 stories. 

 

this is after the redesign? the building was already close to 52 stories with the crown. im hoping they keep the crown empty and dont decide to build floors up into it. i want this sucker to be tall!  :P 52 stories is a 25% increase from the 41 stories, meaning if they proportionally increase the height of the crown (as someone else pointed out on page 1 i believe), the crown should be 12 stories, meaning this will be a 64 story building..? that would be fantastic. downtown needs a ~900 footer to fill in the void between 800' and 1000'.

can someone photoshop this picture to make a 900' Hines tower instead of the 41 story version thats shown? IMO the new Chevron tower is a little short too since its more like 58 floors.

DtownSkyline_zpsfc4a0b55.jpg

Edited by cloud713
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Is the chevron tower confirmed at 58? I thought it was more like 50

If the renderings are anything to go by, it's 58 floors tall.. There's a large rendering somewhere where it's pretty easy to count the floors. 50 floors in the tower (with 2 double high floors, one at the top one at the bottom) and the podium it's standing on is 3 double stories tall, so that would put it at 58 stories.

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Is that another Essex rendering implanted into this picture than the previous Head and Shoulders shampoo bottle looking one?

 

im not sure. i took the picture from the Potential/Future(?) Skyline thread in another section of the forum. he didnt specify what tower it was, just said it was "a filler" for the International tower, though someones saying it will supposably only be 41 stories now. 

on second thought with the whole crown proportions theory, im not sure i see them increasing the crown an additional 25%, because they arent increasing the width of the tower any so it would effect/increase the slope of the roof line. so if they dont increase the crown this tower would be approx 61 stories to the top. probably not quite 900' but id say 850' is a safe estimate. anyone good at photoshop? this tower should stand out nicely from all angles.

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Spoiler:

 

 

49 floors with two levels of parking below grade.  683' 11" to level 49, to the top of the crown it is 756' 9", and from the roof to the top of the crown it is 59' 11".

 

 

Highlight to see text.  I tried a few spoiler codes but couldn't get them to work.

Edited by houstontx
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  • Highrise Tower changed the title to How Tall Will Hines Next Tower Be?

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