The Southmore: Hines Museum District Highrise

[LarryDierker 3405]

 This is what we need!  Beautiful condos like this one in Toronto.

 

Please, don't change the subject homie. Hines' building will be spendid.

[TowerSpotter 1167]

Please, don't change the subject homie. Hines' building will be spendid.

 

lol agreed.

[nativehoustonion 588]

Everybody can have their own opinion.  This is a forum, I expected  more from Hines. 

[swtsig 2929]

Everybody can have their own opinion. This is a forum, I expected more from Hines.

Well if you want to be taken seriously perhaps you should avoid hyperbole like eye "soar"

[Montrose1100 3714]

Well if you want to be taken seriously perhaps you should avoid hyperbole like eye "soar"

Well I think he/she meant their eyes will soar with the breeze to get a 360 perspective once this building is complete. Yeah sure it's not a landmark design that will be in architectural books, but it is what it is.. Infill. Not every building in every city can be a gem, and it's not even that tall of a building. If it were +40 stories then we all complaints would be validated. 

[Texasota 2932]

Is it really "infill?" It's taking the place of existing buildings that have *not* outlived there usefulness; it's not going up on vacant land or a brownfield.

[nate 238]

Will Oakdale Street be opened up to allow vehicular access to San Jacinto? That would be a big help to this project and the site plan does not show the existing barrier.

 

Perhaps an agreement was reached with METRO that in exchange for opening up Oakdale, they would limit that corner lot to park use. Also, not developing the lot may have enabled them to avoid a re-plat since I have not seen any signs about one.

Edited October 11, 2013 by nate

[TowerSpotter 1167]

Is it really "infill?" It's taking the place of existing buildings that have *not* outlived there usefulness; it's not going up on vacant land or a brownfield.

 

It isn't infill but it is more density that what willl soon to be "previously there."

[ZKB9 149]

lol I don't get the hate at all. It looks nice and sleek and will make a great addition to that area. That Toronto building shown would look out of place in this area IMO, looks like it'd fit in better downtown or uptown. Also, if you want to talk about disappointing Hines developments, how about that lame "British" neighborhood that was recently announced?

[Urbannizer 44115]

The Southmore

 

 

• 25-Stories, 301,000 square feet (259 Units)

• Construction Start: July 2014, first residents move in March 2016, final completion November 2016
• Architect: Wallace Grace Wilson & Munoz Albin
• Website: www.southmore.com

 

 

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/real-estate/article/Hines-bets-big-on-its-hometown-4890024.php#/9

Edited October 12, 2013 by Urbannizer

[kbates2 1339]

Much better looking picture

[fatesdisastr 532]

Agreed, much better 

 

Glad they changed the bottom from the beige colored block to glass and added the addition on top

[cloud713 4037]

Looks pretty nice in that rendering.

[arche_757 837]

Not bad for what it is - a residential tower.  Interesting that we are seeing this new trend - very common among Austin residential towers of late.  I believe it was all started by Perkins+Will with work they've done in Chicago.

[lockmat 2291]

Not bad for what it is - a residential tower. Interesting that we are seeing this new trend - very common among Austin residential towers of late. I believe it was all started by Perkins+Will with work they've done in Chicago.

Which trend?

[arche_757 837]

The "mis-mash" of differing architectural elements in "box-like" form to create the apperance of multiple buildings mashed together (apparent in the elevations - as there are 3 design components - the "soft glass sides" and the "harder" stone/solid middle piece).  That is a very non-technical explanation and the best I can do, sorry if it isn't sufficient?  And I'm not being critical of the design, just saying it is remeniscent of what came out of Perkins+Will in the early 2000s in Chicago.  Numerous other firms have adopted the same design "style" (for better or worse) and it is now in most cities in America that have current/modern highrise residential towers.  I think in this particular building the horizontal elements seem to "outweigh" the vertical pieces as "offenders" of the non-conforming architectural style that I described above (again, in very non-scientific terminology).

 

Does that make sense?

[ClutchCity 232]

Some more interesting information about the Southmore. It didn't look like it from the the floor plan renderings, but it sounds like they are thinking about putting some retail facing the public (within "designated hours") park planned for one portion of the property.

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/blog/breaking-ground/2013/10/exclusive-hines-to-move-forward-on.html?page=all

[ArchFan 323]

So, Perkins+Will started a trend that resulted in something like the BBVA Compass Building on Post Oak (despite not being residential)?  That's interesting, although all design fads have to start somewhere!  :-)

[arche_757 837]

Architectural design trends do blur between commercial and residential - and BBVA is a Kirksey design.  Ziegler Cooper is designing this project.  Neither is in the same league as Perkins+Will (in my opinion).  Though both ZC and Kirksey have been given a bit more leeway in their designs of late and I am appreciating more and more Kirksey's work on the larger scale commercial side of things.

 

Good news about mixing in retail.  That will only work if it is a MUST stop kind of place, or, more critical mass of retail starts to pop up nearby to create a walkable retail scene in the area.

 

I would love to see this neighborhood become more dense without destroying too many of the shaded single family residential properties.  There are quite a few empty lots available for development in and around the immediate area that won't necessitate tearing down older homes.

[Urbannizer 44115]

Architectural design trends do blur between commercial and residential - and BBVA is a Kirksey design. Ziegler Cooper is designing this project. Neither is in the same league as Perkins+Will (in my opinion). Though both ZC and Kirksey have been given a bit more leeway in their designs of late and I am appreciating more and more Kirksey's work on the larger scale commercial side of things.

Wallace Garcia Wilson and Munoz Albin are in charge of the design for The Southmore. Ziegler Cooper is working on the Market Square high-rise.

[arche_757 837]

Really?  Interesting.  Thanks.

 

I thought ZC was involved there as well.

[wxman 883]

This building is ugly and generic. Tall doesn't equal pretty. Looks like any ol' other building. What's the difference between this, the Sovereign, Whitco Tower (22-story in galleria area), Hines market square tower or a half dozen others that all look the same. Little character. Sorry, I'm not goo goo over this at all. 

 

Whitco:

 

 

Sovereign:

 

 

Market Place:

 

 

Southmore Tower:

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2013 by wxman

[arche_757 837]

Of course we are all entitled to our opinions.  That is what drives design.

 

It is a residential tower of 20-30 floors in a town with many buildings that are much taller and larger, so it doesn't need to be an architectural masterpiece.  However, I do think for the location of the building it should have perhaps been a bit shorter.  Residential towers are always too narrow on one axis and too broad on the other.  Sadly, other than 2727 Kirby (and the new tower on Wesleyan) few of the newer buildings have what I think of as good proportions.  The Southmore looks like it is a tad too broad, but I'll reserve judgment until it is constructed and I can view it from multiple angles.

Edited October 18, 2013 by arche_757

[swtsig 2929]

Of course we are all entitled to our opinions.  That is what drives design.

 

It is a residential tower of 20-30 floors in a town with many buildings that are much taller and larger, so it doesn't need to be an architectural masterpiece.  However, I do think for the location of the building it should have perhaps been a bit shorter.  Residential towers are always too narrow on one axis and too broad on the other.  Sadly, other than 2727 Kirby (and the new tower on Wesleyan) few of the newer buildings have what I think of as good proportions.  The Southmore looks like it is a tad too broad, but I'll reserve judgment until it is constructed and I can view it from multiple angles.

 

exactly! this notion that every 20-story building needs to be some sort of architectural wonder is quite perplexing. go take a look at austin - nearly all of their similarly-sized buildings follow the exact same form. imo these are the buildings houston needs right now. once you get up to the 40-story range is when you begin seeing bolder designs.

[VelvetJ 19]

I don't think wxman is asking for architectural masterpieces. It's interesting that on this site when critics ask for something as simple as a little character or quality for Houston, it is perceived as asking for billion dollar groundbreaking spectacles.

There is a place for infill but I think because this was Hines, many of us expected something a bit more in terms of distinction from other projects.

[arche_757 837]

I am curious then what examples of residential high rises you might cite as notworthy architecturally, both in Houston and nationally?  There are very few that are ever really ground breaking.

 

And isn't it clear that Hines is no longer the daring Hines of the 1970s and 1980s?  And if anything, Houston is much more conservative architecturally speaking than during the boom years of the 60s - 80s.

[fatesdisastr 532]

I am curious then what examples of residential high rises you might cite as notworthy architecturally, both in Houston and nationally?  There are very few that are ever really ground breaking.

 

And isn't it clear that Hines is no longer the daring Hines of the 1970s and 1980s?  And if anything, Houston is much more conservative architecturally speaking than during the boom years of the 60s - 80s.

 

 

Would you you cite 2929 Weslayan as an example of a residential high rise that is noteworthy and currently going up in Houston?

 

 

I wouldn't say it is groundbreaking but certainly noteworthy for the Houston area and possibly nationally.

Edited October 18, 2013 by fatesdisastr

[arche_757 837]

Certainly.  It is different from most of the existing/proposed highrise towers.  It does copy (to some extent) StudioGang's work in Chicago though.

[lockmat 2291]

I think architectural detail is more expensive than most of us know. I agree that it seems like a little more thought or detail into the design sans high end material could really make a difference, but I'm sure it comes at a cost too, and therefore left out.

[bobruss 4986]

Although 2929 Weslayan is noteworthy to Houston, I think the Aqua tower in Chicago is much more noteworthy nationally since it was first and much more graceful being 80+ stories. 2929 Weslayan however is the most unique design in residential towers yet built in Houston. I wish the new Herman Drive 42 story wasn't going to have a flat roof on its twisting structure. I think it might have been more interesting if it had some setbacks as it went up.

[Naviguessor 2184]

Does the fact that this is an aparment building and not Condo Tower make a difference?  I believe that it must.  I would think that a condo that is "owned" by the tenants would more likely attempt to be noteworthy than an apartment building which would need to keep costs down for a more relatively transient typical resident.  In short...a renter is less likely to care about how a building looks than a Property owner.  A renter will want lower rent.  An owner would likely pay more to be part of the identity of a showcase.  Am I wrong about this? It's just a theory.

[Texasota 2932]

I think that's wrong...

That makes sense at the bottom of the market, but these new towers are *not* aimed there.

[ArchFan 323]

I think that's wrong...

That makes sense at the bottom of the market, but these new towers are *not* aimed there.

 

I tend to agree.  My guess is that many of the people who are willing to spend $3000 + per month to rent a high-rise apartment would be willing to pay some amount of premium for an additional "wow" factor.  They could just as easily buy a high-end condo, and they are just as susceptible to appeals to their vanity as anyone else ... 

[Urbannizer 44115]

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/blog/2014/01/multifamily-development-continues-to.html

[Sellanious Caesar 211]

I had to go to the airport recently but noticed on the way there and back that the Museum District/Binz actually has a decent sized skyline for itself that will continue to get taller and larger with projects like these.

I never bothered noticing the towers in Museum District before but all these buildings are bringing everything together.

[LTAWACS 152]

Any pics?

[cloud713 4037]

Of what? The southmore site or the museum district skyline? At least one of the homes on the block of the southmore has been vacated with no trespassing signs posted. Hopefully the others follow suit soon.

[LTAWACS 152]

The latter.

[Sellanious Caesar 211]

Any pics?

You have to see it in person.

Besides I was driving, no time for pictures when you're merging lanes in traffic.

[LTAWACS 152]

Oh. I thought you were on a plane. Would've been a nice shot.

[Triton 11778]

I had to go to the airport recently but noticed on the way there and back that the Museum District/Binz actually has a decent sized skyline for itself that will continue to get taller and larger with projects like these.

I never bothered noticing the towers in Museum District before but all these buildings are bringing everything together.

It has a beautiful little skyline. I see it every morning driving down to Sugarland. Spur 527 driving onto 59 is the best way to see it all. Houston is so much more dense than people realize.

[fernz 364]

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/blog/2014/01/multifamily-development-continues-to.html

The story mentions that Hines has another development in the Galleria. Does anybody know anything about that?

[swtsig 2929]

Rumor has it they have a couple projects in the early stages of predevelopment in the galleria area. There is a very healthy pipeline of proposed high rises in uptown. .

[cloud713 4037]

Rumor has it they have a couple projects in the early stages of predevelopment in the galleria area. There is a very healthy pipeline of proposed high rises in uptown. .

I wonder who will develop Simons Galleria residential tower? But yes, there are quite a few projects planned for uptown (seems like I read somewhere that around 20 residential projects are planned for uptown, along with a handful of office towers).

I can't wait to watch uptowns skyline explode over the next 5 years..

Edited January 11, 2014 by cloud713

[ClutchCity 232]

Rumor has it they have a couple projects in the early stages of predevelopment in the galleria area. There is a very healthy pipeline of proposed high rises in uptown. .

Is Hines thinking of doing any office/multifamily(/hotel) mixed use towers rather than the primarily multifamily/retail or office/retail developements they have been doing. It is interesting to see Midway talk about how they like to have three components in a project but I can't recall Hines giving it a try. Not saying they should though, Hines seems to be doing perfectly fine how they currently operate. Just a little curious!

[cloud713 4037]

It would definitely be neat to see Hines attempt at a mixed use (3+ component) project. The residential projects with retail is nice, but I want to see some real mixed use developments where you can live work and play without having to leave the vicinity. Midway seems to have it down.. Why not Hines?

[Sellanious Caesar 211]

It would definitely be neat to see Hines attempt at a mixed use (3+ component) project. The residential projects with retail is nice, but I want to see some real mixed use developments where you can live work and play without having to leave the vicinity. Midway seems to have it down.. Why not Hines?

Hines just recently boarded the residential train. They spent much of their existence building office.

Also it's harder to build mixed use. More components the more banks, money, approvals, planning, etc will be needed.

[cloud713 4037]

Hines just recently boarded the residential train. They spent much of their existence building office.

Also it's harder to build mixed use. More components the more banks, money, approvals, planning, etc will be needed.

True.. I almost forget Hines has only been in the residential market for 4-5 years, they are doing such a good job with their residential projects.

And great point about mixed use projects needing more banks, approvals, ect. A lot of us (myself included) tend to forget how much more complicated mixed use developments are than regular developments.. If GreenStreet turns around and becomes as successful as CityCentre then I will have a lot more respect for Midway... CC has been phenomenal.

Edit. I guess Hines sort of started with large scale mixed use developments if you think about it.. Both theGalleria and the Dallas galleria, with retail, hotel, and office components mixed.. I would like to see them take another shot at large scale mixed use developments, but this time more vertical than theGalleria.. Heh. I guess Hines could develop the Hardy Yards site, the KBR site, the downtown Post Office site, or the Astroworld site for a more horizontal large scale project. Other then that or way out in the suburbs there aren't many options for something as sprawling as theGalleria development elsewhere in Houston.

Edited January 11, 2014 by cloud713

[jgriff 738]

Hines has done some residential in the 70s too.

 

http://www.hines.com/property/detail.aspx?id=386

['Stonian 361]

The story mentions that Hines has another development in the Galleria. Does anybody know anything about that?

 

The Bizjournals story most likely was referring to Hines project at Westheimer and Shepherd (old Cafe Adobe site).

 

Technically not what I would call the Galleria area but that term has been used more loosely than "River Oaks" for decades. I had friends in college who had an apartment in the Gulfton/Bellaire/Hillcroft vicinity and would always say "Galleria Area".