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GreenStreet Redevelopment + 21-Story Hotel Alessandra

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11 hours ago, Tumbleweed_Tx said:

I never posted a finished picture of the light wall at HoB.

 

 

http://imgur.com/gallery/huDlpxi


 

By the way, the light wall at the HOB is a perfect example of the various “swing and a miss” efforts at Greenstreet.  It’s arbitrary and underwhelming.  If you want to make a statement, you’ve got to SPEAK UP.  This is a half-hearted whisper.

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23 minutes ago, Chi-Char-Hou-Dal said:

I heard Liftime fitness is coming to Greenstreet - has that been posted here

 

Interesting.  Their current retail leasing brochure shows a three-level, 117,000 square foot "Fitness" tenant where the bookstore used to be.  Then, in further detail, it says that 117,000 square feet is comprised of:

-- 37,000 square feet Fitness Space

-- 35,000 square feet Coworking Space

-- 25,000 square feet Spa & Personal Care

-- 20,000 square feet Rootop Amenity Space

 

Definitely sounds like Lifetime Fitness.

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16 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

Hopdoddy would kill it here, I'm telling you. Lines of office workers.

 

 

Hard to say.  There's a lot of competition.  Downtown has so many good burger places, in the full range of prices, with Vic and Anthony's at the top end ($21ish with tax and tip), and then the new Craft Burger (in Finn Hall) and upcoming Shake Shack (next door), plus plenty of more affordable popular long-time favorites such as Hubcap Grill and Miller's Cafe.

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1 hour ago, rechlin said:

 

Hard to say.  There's a lot of competition.  Downtown has so many good burger places, in the full range of prices, with Vic and Anthony's at the top end ($21ish with tax and tip), and then the new Craft Burger (in Finn Hall) and upcoming Shake Shack (next door), plus plenty of more affordable popular long-time favorites such as Hubcap Grill and Miller's Cafe.

 

Yeah, but Hopdoddy is a sensation. An overrated sensation. When I worked in Preston Center in Dallas, we had some good burger places. Then Hopdoddy came in and it's the only place anyone wanted to do lunch. I would sometimes convince people to avoid the line and go back to Snuffer's, and the place would be nearly empty at lunch on a Friday.

 

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There is a rooftop soccer field that I see almost anytime Tokyo is featured in a movie and seeing that Houston might be getting one is a childhood dream come true 

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Midway acquired the Pavillions in 2012, I think.  In the last 7 years midway has created lots of pretty pictures and installed some grass on some roofs and some patch of AstroTurf called a “lawn” to hold events on.  They have also built a hotel.

 

the pretty pictures that they published look nothing like what they built.  Remember that grand hotel edifice and the “value engineered structure” that they actually built?  Meet me in the Sky lobby, anyone?   How about those expansive dry goods shopping spaces?

 

They own the property and they are free to do as they wish.  And I am free to not believe that they will ever do anything at this property remotely like what they describe in their pretty pictures and flowery prose.

 

oh, and I hope, I desperately hope, that one day, they prove me wrong.

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12 hours ago, UtterlyUrban said:

Midway acquired the Pavillions in 2012, I think.  In the last 7 years midway has created lots of pretty pictures and installed some grass on some roofs and some patch of AstroTurf called a “lawn” to hold events on.  They have also built a hotel.

 

the pretty pictures that they published look nothing like what they built.  Remember that grand hotel edifice and the “value engineered structure” that they actually built?  Meet me in the Sky lobby, anyone?   How about those expansive dry goods shopping spaces?

 

They own the property and they are free to do as they wish.  And I am free to not believe that they will ever do anything at this property remotely like what they describe in their pretty pictures and flowery prose.

 

oh, and I hope, I desperately hope, that one day, they prove me wrong.

1

To be completely honest, Midway does not own the property. They are the General Partner so they probably own 5% of the property and would not be putting up the majority of the capital for renovations, all they do is provide the vision and programming. It is up to the Limited Partner (Lionstone) to decide when and what actually gets funded. 

 

I know everyone likes to think designing, programming, and construction are the epicenters of buildings but I promise it is finance. I'm willing to bet that when the team got their hands on the property in 2012 and then sat through the downturn 2014, that the property needed a whole lot more money infused and that the returns weren't worth it. Sometimes you have to sit on a property and find the right time, sometimes you have to admit you got it wrong and sell. 

 

If it was easy to flip/build a property I'm sure you would be doing it yourself. 

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18 hours ago, HoustonBoy said:

There is a rooftop soccer field that I see almost anytime Tokyo is featured in a movie and seeing that Houston might be getting one is a childhood dream come true 

 

Houston has a rooftop soccer field.. it’s just on top of a parking garage at Phillips 66 campus on Beltway 8 west. 

I was oddly excited when Phillips 66 announced it, after seeing the Tokyo rooftop soccer field in movies for years.

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3 hours ago, C List said:

To be completely honest, Midway does not own the property. They are the General Partner so they probably own 5% of the property and would not be putting up the majority of the capital for renovations, all they do is provide the vision and programming. It is up to the Limited Partner (Lionstone) to decide when and what actually gets funded. 

 

I know everyone likes to think designing, programming, and construction are the epicenters of buildings but I promise it is finance. I'm willing to bet that when the team got their hands on the property in 2012 and then sat through the downturn 2014, that the property needed a whole lot more money infused and that the returns weren't worth it. Sometimes you have to sit on a property and find the right time, sometimes you have to admit you got it wrong and sell. 

 

If it was easy to flip/build a property I'm sure you would be doing it yourself. 

 

I commented a while back in this thread that a leasing broker for this property told me that they were letting leases run out and occupancy fall so that they can do further renovations. This was approximately one year ago. It is the same thing going on with the Shops at Houston Center. You have to let leases run out so your hands aren't tied.

 

The fact that the hotel was built and that Midway was the winning bidder to redevelop the Sakowitz garage a couple years ago suggests to me that they do not have any regrets about decisions that were made in 2012.

 

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16 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I commented a while back in this thread that a leasing broker for this property told me that they were letting leases run out and occupancy fall so that they can do further renovations. This was approximately one year ago. It is the same thing going on with the Shops at Houston Center. You have to let leases run out so your hands aren't tied.

 

The fact that the hotel was built and that Midway was the winning bidder to redevelop the Sakowitz garage a couple years ago suggests to me that they do not have any regrets about decisions that were made in 2012.

 

 

Is that news?  Did we know about Midway wining the right to redevelop the Sakowitz garage?

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8 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Is that news?  Did we know about Midway wining the right to redevelop the Sakowitz garage?

 

There was an RFP and Midway came away as... maybe "winning bidder" isn't the right term but, in the driver's seat. This was hinted but not confirmed at the time by another poster on here. That project seems to have gone at least temporarily cold, however.

 

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4 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

There was an RFP and Midway came away as... maybe "winning bidder" isn't the right term but, in the driver's seat. This was hinted but not confirmed at the time by another poster on here. That project seems to have gone at least temporarily cold, however.

 

 

I just went through that thread and the primary hint was by you and it indicated that Hines was the winner.  I'm sure there must have been a follow-up article about that in the Chronicle, just like the follow-up articles about the RFPs for development of the block being the Marriott Marquis, right?  Right?  Why can't I find them?   (Yes, of course I'm joking.)

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Just now, Houston19514 said:

 

I just went through that thread and the primary hint was by you and it indicated that Hines was the winner.  I'm sure there must have been a follow-up article about that in the Chronicle, just like the follow-up articles about the RFPs for development of the block being the Marriott Marquis, right?  Right?  Why can't I find them?   (Yes, of course I'm joking.)

 

Read more carefully. I guessed Hines and was wrong. The hint was from swtsig, (that a "very well known and respected local developer won out") and posts appear to have been deleted, but out of numerous guesses someone guessed Midway and he liked that post. Take from it what you will, he has been wrong about things before.

 

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7 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Read more carefully. I guessed Hines and was wrong. The hint was from swtsig, (that a "very well known and respected local developer won out") and posts appear to have been deleted, but out of numerous guesses someone guessed Midway and he liked that post. Take from it what you will, he has been wrong about things before.

 

 

How can I read deleted posts?   

 

Edit:  I see it now. That swtsig's initial post and "like" was all in a different thread from the one I was looking at (there are two threads on the Sakowitz block redevelopment).  Good tea-leaf-readiing there, H-Town Man. 

Edited by Houston19514
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6 hours ago, C List said:

To be completely honest, Midway does not own the property. They are the General Partner so they probably own 5% of the property and would not be putting up the majority of the capital for renovations, all they do is provide the vision and programming. It is up to the Limited Partner (Lionstone) to decide when and what actually gets funded. 

 

I know everyone likes to think designing, programming, and construction are the epicenters of buildings but I promise it is finance. I'm willing to bet that when the team got their hands on the property in 2012 and then sat through the downturn 2014, that the property needed a whole lot more money infused and that the returns weren't worth it. Sometimes you have to sit on a property and find the right time, sometimes you have to admit you got it wrong and sell. 

 

If it was easy to flip/build a property I'm sure you would be doing it yourself. 

Midway and whomever else can do what theywish, as I said.  I also didn’t say it was easy nor that I had any chance of doing it myself.   That said, what I did say is that I am tired of midway publishing gorgeous  renderings of this property that, IF it gets built, looks nothing like the rendering.   There is a pattern of this since 2012, IMO.

 

since you say that finance folks are in charge, perhaps midway et al should wait to publish all the glitzy renderings until the finance folks approve of the cost.  If the glitz isn’t approved, then publish renderings of what the finance folks did approve.  Seems Simple, honest, and straight forward.

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Well we know another tenant moving in. I think this is great with AT&T Sports Houston and Hotel Alessandra. And if it’s true Lifetime Fitness is coming, that and Forever 21, the House of Blues, and a host of restaurants imo means GreenStreet is heading in the right direction. 

 

https://www.chron.com/techburger/article/MassChallenge-business-accelerator-opening-in-13573843.php 

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4 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Well we know another tenant moving in. I think this is great with AT&T Sports Houston and Hotel Alessandra. And if it’s true Lifetime Fitness is coming, that and Forever 21, the House of Blues, and a host of restaurants imo means GreenStreet is heading in the right direction. 

 

https://www.chron.com/techburger/article/MassChallenge-business-accelerator-opening-in-13573843.php 

 

The article says this will be at Main and Clay. So I guess it will be on the ground floor of GreenStreet's parking garage.

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18 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Well we know another tenant moving in. I think this is great with AT&T Sports Houston and Hotel Alessandra. And if it’s true Lifetime Fitness is coming, that and Forever 21, the House of Blues, and a host of restaurants imo means GreenStreet is heading in the right direction. 

 

https://www.chron.com/techburger/article/MassChallenge-business-accelerator-opening-in-13573843.php 

Lifetime is going there. Per a contact, the lease is signed.

Edited by SMU1213
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5 minutes ago, Tumbleweed_Tx said:

the sugar and cloth color wall? WTF is that... lol

 

A color blocked wall mural that was originally off Canal in the East End. Guess it’s since moved to Green Street. 

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23 minutes ago, urbanize713 said:

Wow so many people called it! So the post was removed on Reddit, but somebody captured a photo of a piece of paper on the window of Forever 21 at the Galleria saying that the store would be closed until Forever 21 paid over $100,000 for their space. Guess this was a sign of things to come.

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I can’t say I don’t enjoy Forever 21’s presence downtown, but even if they close up shop, the bigger issue here is not having a major tenant to anchor smaller retail. We need something like a Bloomingdales or hell bring back Macys. 

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10 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

I can’t say I don’t enjoy Forever 21’s presence downtown, but even if they close up shop, the bigger issue here is not having a major tenant to anchor smaller retail. We need something like a Bloomingdales or hell bring back Macys. 

 

Macy's just closed their downtown Seattle store. Department stores are over.

 

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Just now, H-Town Man said:

 

Macy's just closed their downtown Seattle store. Department stores are over.

 

Daaamn thats a tough blow to Seattle. They have a nice retail area in their downtown. So what will anchor future stores? Or are we just going to see such a dive in traditional retail that the idea of having dry goods downtown is dead? 

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7 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Daaamn thats a tough blow to Seattle. They have a nice retail area in their downtown. So what will anchor future stores? Or are we just going to see such a dive in traditional retail that the idea of having dry goods downtown is dead? 

 

Seattle will weather the blow. Building will be repurposed in no time, probably creative space of some sort with food on the first floor. Retail is all food and drink these days.

 

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33 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Macy's just closed their downtown Seattle store. Department stores are over.

 

 

Macy's just isn't unique. Its just your general run of the mill department store. "General" Department stores are over. I live in Montrose and its been fun lately seeing clothing retailers start to pop back up along Westheimer, and it seems they are doing well but thats because they are unique and have a strong identity. When I walk into a Macy's I think, "yeah I can just order this online".

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2 minutes ago, Luminare said:

 

Macy's just isn't unique. Its just your general run of the mill department store. "General" Department stores are over. I live in Montrose and its been fun lately seeing clothing retailers start to pop back up along Westheimer, and it seems they are doing well but thats because they are unique and have a strong identity. When I walk into a Macy's I think, "yeah I can just order this online".

 

Neiman Marcus is hurting and could go bankrupt in a couple years. JCPenney could go bankrupt any month.

 

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1 minute ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Neiman Marcus is hurting and could go bankrupt in a couple years. JCPenney could go bankrupt any month.

 

 

...and those are also general department stores. So my point stands?

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5 hours ago, Texasota said:

I'm gonna argue for a Muji.

 

Or a UNIQLO.

32 minutes ago, Luminare said:

 

Macy's just isn't unique. Its just your general run of the mill department store. "General" Department stores are over. I live in Montrose and its been fun lately seeing clothing retailers start to pop back up along Westheimer, and it seems they are doing well but thats because they are unique and have a strong identity. When I walk into a Macy's I think, "yeah I can just order this online".

 

Wait what retailers have popped up in Montrose recently?

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Maybe Bork can take over... it would be a game changer.  :ph34r:

Edited by mollusk

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The Macy's in the Galleria and the one in Baybrook, back when my sister worked there two years ago, were routinely in the top 10 for revenue in the Nation. So unless Macy's is super duper F'ed, then I'm assuming they'll be around for a while to come. Sucks about Forever 21, but their clothes really sucked in terms of quality. You guys gotta hope for a Target, that would solve all the problems (their clothes are better than Forevs 21, in my opinion).

 

But I hear Target prefers to own the property of the building so theres that. 

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27 minutes ago, X.R. said:

The Macy's in the Galleria and the one in Baybrook, back when my sister worked there two years ago, were routinely in the top 10 for revenue in the Nation. So unless Macy's is super duper F'ed, then I'm assuming they'll be around for a while to come. Sucks about Forever 21, but their clothes really sucked in terms of quality. You guys gotta hope for a Target, that would solve all the problems (their clothes are better than Forevs 21, in my opinion).

 

But I hear Target prefers to own the property of the building so theres that. 

 

or H&M. Then again I'm a walking H&M billboard/sellout haha

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5 hours ago, Luminare said:

 

...and those are also general department stores. So my point stands?

 

You said "run of the mill." Is Neiman Marcus "run of the mill"? I don't consider the clothing shops in Montrose to be department stores.

 

Maybe what you're calling a "general department store," I'm just calling a "department store." A large building with a vast array of retail goods grouped into different departments.

 

Edited by H-Town Man
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14 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

You said "run of the mill." Is Neiman Marcus "run of the mill"? I don't consider the clothing shops in Montrose to be department stores.

 

Maybe what you're calling a "general department store," I'm just calling a "department store." A large building with a vast array of retail goods grouped into different departments.

 

 

You could be entirely correct. Its possible a much clearer definition of terms we should use would be "department store" which you have laid out the definition to, which I can agree to, and I would proposed a second definition be "boutique store". Department store referring to the large variety, and the boutique referring to the small. Would that be a better way to construct this?

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1 hour ago, Luminare said:

 

You could be entirely correct. Its possible a much clearer definition of terms we should use would be "department store" which you have laid out the definition to, which I can agree to, and I would proposed a second definition be "boutique store". Department store referring to the large variety, and the boutique referring to the small. Would that be a better way to construct this?

 

I think so. Those in Montrose are boutiques, not department stores.

 

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Source: https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2019/11/14/downtown-houston-mixed-use-development-secures.html

 

 

Quote

Midway/Lionstone investments has secured a $140 million refinancing for the GreenStreet property...


The property is undergoing a renovation that  includes a new two-story lobby on the ground floor of the tower "to create a sense of arrival and distinct point of entry for office tenants and visitors" as well as "opening up central corridors to enhance visibility". 

Greenstreet signed a 15-year lease with Life Time to establish a diamond-level fitness resort and the company's coworking concept. Life Time's lease was for 108,000 square feet at 1201 main St. The company is expected to open the GreenStreet location early next year,  

 

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