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Why Does Galveston Take More Pride In Preserving History Than Houston?


Slick Vik

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I went to Galveston this morning, went to a few museums: Flight Museum, Railroad Museum, Seaport Museum. What came to mind is that Galvestonians seem to take much more pride in their history in comparison to houston. Here most notable buildings get torn down: Shamrock Hotel, Majestic Theater, Prudential Building, possibly astrodome. It's sad that most things here get demolished and mostly become parking lots.

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So you don't believe preserving history?

 

not when it makes no economic sense, or when It's my property, and I want to do something with it. Feel free to preserve history, just don't try to force it on me.

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So you don't believe preserving history?

 

So you don't believe in using common sense? It has often been said that economic stagnation is the friend of historic buildings. Galveston has had virtually no economy for over 100 years. Accordingly, there was no incentive to tear down their buildings. Houston, on the other hand, has added 6.2 million people in the last 113 years. We need the space. Where you seem upset that Houston grew into an economic juggernaut, but had to bulldoze a few old buildings to do it, I am impressed with Houston's stature as the best economy in the country right now.

 

Of course, if we were being fair, we would also be complaining about why New York, Chicago and LA tore down so much of their history as well. But, we are not fair. Some people look only at Houston and complain, while ignoring the fact that Houston has grown just like other cities have, only faster.

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So you don't believe in using common sense? It has often been said that economic stagnation is the friend of historic buildings. Galveston has had virtually no economy for over 100 years. Accordingly, there was no incentive to tear down their buildings. Houston, on the other hand, has added 6.2 million people in the last 113 years. We need the space. Where you seem upset that Houston grew into an economic juggernaut, but had to bulldoze a few old buildings to do it, I am impressed with Houston's stature as the best economy in the country right now.

 

Of course, if we were being fair, we would also be complaining about why New York, Chicago and LA tore down so much of their history as well. But, we are not fair. Some people look only at Houston and complain, while ignoring the fact that Houston has grown just like other cities have, only faster.

 

This is called a lack of civic sense. 

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I wouldn't accuse Galveston of lacking civic sense. They got wiped out by a hurricane for crissakes. Those old buildings are all they have left. 

 

 

BTW, remember that thread where you said people that don't take the bus cannot critique it? Well...I am preserving a 108 year old home, and you are not. You have no right to critique Houston preservation of historic buildings since you have never done it. I have, and Houston preserves more homes and buildings than Galveston does.

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I actually rather enjoy Houston's minimal focus on history. Houston is a city that very much lives in the present with an eye on the future. Let's be realistic after all, it's not like there's a lot of "history" of any significance in Houston prior to the 60s. It doesn't have to be a given that just because something's old, it should be saved.

Galveston on the other hand, does have history that's worth saving. It was much more affluent around the turn of the century and has buildings that reflect that.

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I wouldn't accuse Galveston of lacking civic sense. They got wiped out by a hurricane for crissakes. Those old buildings are all they have left.

BTW, remember that thread where you said people that don't take the bus cannot critique it? Well...I am preserving a 108 year old home, and you are not. You have no right to critique Houston preservation of historic buildings since you have never done it. I have, and Houston preserves more homes and buildings than Galveston does.

I am preserving a 40 year old home myself one of three that i own. You can keep trying to put me down but in life you can not defeat me.

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I actually rather enjoy Houston's minimal focus on history. Houston is a city that very much lives in the present with an eye on the future. Let's be realistic after all, it's not like there's a lot of "history" of any significance in Houston prior to the 60s. It doesn't have to be a given that just because something's old, it should be saved.

Galveston on the other hand, does have history that's worth saving. It was much more affluent around the turn of the century and has buildings that reflect that.

History is important. Honestly I can't win with you and red and August. You guys are for sprawl and against history. You may have some that will agree in a houston forum but globally these are sad and laughable viewpoints.

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So you don't believe in using common sense? It has often been said that economic stagnation is the friend of historic buildings. Galveston has had virtually no economy for over 100 years. Accordingly, there was no incentive to tear down their buildings. Houston, on the other hand, has added 6.2 million people in the last 113 years. We need the space. Where you seem upset that Houston grew into an economic juggernaut, but had to bulldoze a few old buildings to do it, I am impressed with Houston's stature as the best economy in the country right now.

Of course, if we were being fair, we would also be complaining about why New York, Chicago and LA tore down so much of their history as well. But, we are not fair. Some people look only at Houston and complain, while ignoring the fact that Houston has grown just like other cities have, only faster.

There are other major cities around the world that chose to preserve history and still are economic juggernauts.

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History is important. Honestly I can't win with you and red and August. You guys are for sprawl and against history. You may have some that will agree in a houston forum but globally these are sad and laughable viewpoints.

Yet another example of the twisting of words that loses you respect in this forum. I clearly stated that I was referring specifically to Houston in my comments, yet you are choosing to make a blanket accusation and then attempt to slur my words by calling my viewpoints "sad and laughable".

I'll say it again, I don't think that there was very much that occurred in Houston prior to the 1960s that I would consider to be historically important.

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History is important. Honestly I can't win with you and red and August. You guys are for sprawl and against history. You may have some that will agree in a houston forum but globally these are sad and laughable viewpoints.

 

It is not livincinco, August and I that you are in competition with. It is reality. MetroMogul put it best in another thread. Your views on mass transit in Houston are not based on efficiently moving people. They are a "child's wishlist". You demand rail without understanding its cost or usefulness. You eschew buses without understanding their value. You sneer at suburbs and claim they are in decline, at the same time that new homes and commercial properties are being built in the suburbs. You claim "other cities" do things, and that Houston should also. Yet, your shallow knowledge of those cities comes from reading a blog and occasionally visiting the city.

 

Most of all, when you are presented with well reasoned counterpoints to your "child's wishlist", you respond by claiming everyone is inherently stupid, and by claiming that our views are "sad and laughable viewpoints". What you fail to understand is that Houston did not become the 4th largest city...built on a swamp...by worrying what others thought of us. And you are not the first person to move here and tell us we're doing it all wrong. But, I'll tell you something. For being "sad and laughable", there sure are a lot of people and magazines talking about how Houston is doing it right. Do you really think that telling us that Europe does it better is effective, when Europe is stuck in a terminal recession?

 

I'll take "sad and laughable" Houston, thank you. Sorry to hear you are so miserable here. Reminds me of all the people that moved here from Michigan in the 70s who told us we were doing it all wrong.

 

Oh, and if I am preserving a 108 year old home, and you claim to be preserving 3 40 year old homes in Houston, how can you claim that Houston doesn't care about history? We have hundreds of thousands of homes 40 years old or older. This sounds like an exaggeration. 

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It is not livincinco, August and I that you are in competition with. It is reality. MetroMogul put it best in another thread. Your views on mass transit in Houston are not based on efficiently moving people. They are a "child's wishlist". You demand rail without understanding its cost or usefulness. You eschew buses without understanding their value. You sneer at suburbs and claim they are in decline, at the same time that new homes and commercial properties are being built in the suburbs. You claim "other cities" do things, and that Houston should also. Yet, your shallow knowledge of those cities comes from reading a blog and occasionally visiting the city.

Most of all, when you are presented with well reasoned counterpoints to your "child's wishlist", you respond by claiming everyone is inherently stupid, and by claiming that our views are "sad and laughable viewpoints". What you fail to understand is that Houston did not become the 4th largest city...built on a swamp...by worrying what others thought of us. And you are not the first person to move here and tell us we're doing it all wrong. But, I'll tell you something. For being "sad and laughable", there sure are a lot of people and magazines talking about how Houston is doing it right. Do you really think that telling us that Europe does it better is effective, when Europe is stuck in a terminal recession?

I'll take "sad and laughable" Houston, thank you. Sorry to hear you are so miserable here. Reminds me of all the people that moved here from Michigan in the 70s who told us we were doing it all wrong.

Oh, and if I am preserving a 108 year old home, and you claim to be preserving 3 40 year old homes in Houston, how can you claim that Houston doesn't care about history? We have hundreds of thousands of homes 40 years old or older. This sounds like an exaggeration.

So because we have a booming economy that means the question of building a world class transit system should be ignored? Quality of life is going down in this city as I'm sure you're aware.

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History has a sense of charm. There were various theaters downtown that are gone, the shamrock hotel, prudential building, etc. these things give us a glimpse of the past they are worth preserving. The Taliban blew up Buddha statues in Afghanistan I suppose red August and livincinco are perfectly fine with that.

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So because we have a booming economy that means the question of building a world class transit system should be ignored? Quality of life is going down in this city as I'm sure you're aware.

 

LMAO! You are so laughably naive. I have lived in this burg for 36 years. I lived here when fish could not survive in Buffalo Bayou. I was here when it was named the dirtiest river in the state. I was here when downtown was empty at night, except for drunks, robbers and law students. I remember running to my car after class. I remember getting robbed at gunpoint in RICE VILLAGE!

 

I was here when over 700 people were murdered in Houston annually. I was here when the oil and real estate busts occurred. I was here when the air was literally brown every day, and we passed Los Angeles as the dirtiest air. 

 

Just because we haven't wasted billions of dollars on our trains you want to claim that our quality of life is in decline? You are such a sad pathetic troll. Houston has never had a better quality of life than it currently enjoys. We are expanding economically. Our inner city is densifying. We are redeveloping parks and bayous, and building new ones. People can walk...instead of run at night...downtown. We are praised nationally and internationally as a successful city that is attracting bright and talented workers. We are even beginning to renovate half a dozen old downtown buildings, which is EXACTLY what you complained about in starting this thread.

 

I am quite sure that you will alert the mods that I called you what you are...a pathetic troll. I will address this part to them. Mods, what is the definition of a troll? Look at these recent posts from this poster and see if you can honestly say otherwise. Feel free to delete this post and ban me. I really do not care. At this point, it is clear that this poster is a caricature. None of what he says is true, none of it supported by fact.

 

He is nothing more than a pathetic troll.

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History has a sense of charm. There were various theaters downtown that are gone, the shamrock hotel, prudential building, etc. these things give us a glimpse of the past they are worth preserving. The Taliban blew up Buddha statues in Afghanistan I suppose red August and livincinco are perfectly fine with that.

Dude, you're really just an extremist troll that is incapable of reasonable discussion. You would have fit in perfectly with Joseph McCarthy and his crew because you seem to feel that you can make any statement that you like because you feel that you are "right" while conveniently choosing to not respond to any points that you don't have an answer to.

I would love to have a reasonable discussion about preservation of historic structures. I would also love to have a reasonable discussion about transit in Houston. I'm sure that there are other places on the internet where I might be able to have that discussion without having to deal with the propaganda from the fascist element of this forum.

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LMAO! You are so laughably naive. I have lived in this burg for 36 years. I lived here when fish could not survive in Buffalo Bayou. I was here when it was named the dirtiest river in the state. I was here when downtown was empty at night, except for drunks, robbers and law students. I remember running to my car after class. I remember getting robbed at gunpoint in RICE VILLAGE!

 

I was here when over 700 people were murdered in Houston annually. I was here when the oil and real estate busts occurred. I was here when the air was literally brown every day, and we passed Los Angeles as the dirtiest air. 

 

Just because we haven't wasted billions of dollars on our trains you want to claim that our quality of life is in decline? You are such a sad pathetic troll. Houston has never had a better quality of life than it currently enjoys. We are expanding economically. Our inner city is densifying. We are redeveloping parks and bayous, and building new ones. People can walk...instead of run at night...downtown. We are praised nationally and internationally as a successful city that is attracting bright and talented workers. We are even beginning to renovate half a dozen old downtown buildings, which is EXACTLY what you complained about in starting this thread.

 

I am quite sure that you will alert the mods that I called you what you are...a pathetic troll. I will address this part to them. Mods, what is the definition of a troll? Look at these recent posts from this poster and see if you can honestly say otherwise. Feel free to delete this post and ban me. I really do not care. At this point, it is clear that this poster is a caricature. None of what he says is true, none of it supported by fact.

 

He is nothing more than a pathetic troll.

 

http://houston.culturemap.com/news/city_life/02-27-13-no-laughing-matter-houston-trending-in-wrong-direction-with-quality-of-life-eroding-survey-says/

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I'm embarrassed for that guy. I am aghast that he can claim that Chicago has a better quality of life than Houston with a straight face. To claim that Houston has a problem with white flight while Chicago is losing population and leads the country in murders is stunning. And, our adjusted wage is highest in the country. Oh well, doesn't change my views on your posts. From this point forward, I will ignore any post that exhibits trolling characteristics.

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https://www.houston.org/business/news-rankings.html

 

http://www.creditdonkey.com/where-young-professionals.html

 

I agree with Redscare. Every one of these threads started by Slick Vic just becomes another place for him to bash Houston and start arguments.

 

"Quality of life" is subjective. What one person hates about Houston could very well be the exact reason that someone else loves Houston. There's no real right or wrong. Judging by Houston's consistent attraction in terms of drawing population from other places, and it's consistently high rankings on real quality of life issues like employment, affordability, growth and dynamics -  it's pretty obvious that Houston's positives far outweigh its negatives for most people. I think Houston's world wide appeal speaks for itself and no internet troll's bizarre opinions can diminish that. 

 

It must be rough for people who don't like Houston these days. Houston is improving everyday for the majority.

 

 

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I am preserving a 40 year old home myself one of three that i own. You can keep trying to put me down but in life you can not defeat me.

 

Ah yes, we can now add to Slick's economic profile three (3) houses (only 1 of them as old as 40 yrs, the others presumably newer) to go along with the Mercedes Benz, Prius, and extensive world traveling. And all that while providing support to your rather large family of public transit riding immigrants.

 

It is clear, Slick, why you cannot be defeated - you are the Bill Gates of the Bayou, the the Rockefeller of Rail.

 

IOW you're flush pal, and in America that gives you the right to condescend....

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Slick may have made a fool of himself on the HAIF (I know I have before, but I got better) though I think he does have some point in preserving buildings. But let's face it--there is a "functional lifespan" to a lot of these things, and some judgement must be taken in sentiment and architectural uniqueness. Astrodome? Yeah, I'd love to see it saved. Prudential Building? No tears shed from me.

 

Here's another thing: preserving buildings takes money, which is in short supply for civic entities.

 

You seem to have a bit of scratch yourself, Slick--why not use your monetary clout to help save one of your favorites?

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Yeah, Galveston has a rich history of historic preservation. That's why you drive that attractive stretch of Broadway from 71st to 25th filled with Target, Mickey D's, gas stations, cheap furniture stores, et al. :

Galveston has the few blocks around The Strand, the eastern neighborhoods, the painted ladies, and a handful of homes on P and Q Streets.

Galvestonians, effectively, ignored much of what is preserved there over many years as more western neighborhoods became more fashionable. This is not unlike how many of Houston's historic zones were considered rather déclassé areas at one time.

If it had not been for the investment of George Mitchell, a B.O.I., in the Strand area, I'm not sure where Galveston would be today. Even now, they have a fragile environment where one cruise ship crapping out can really damage Strand business.

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Galveston has an organization that was created to preserve local history, but their work is confined to the "old" area in and around downtown Galveston, the roughly one square mile from Broadway over to Mechanic St between 19th and 10th streets. The East End Historical District Association is esssentially a homeowners association with strong regulations and sharp teeth to enforce them.  
 
Property owners cannot do anything to change the appearance of their home or building. They can maintain it of course, but the EEHD must approve the work in advance. They can't repair storm damage unless the EEHD Board approves every iota of the work. 

 

I used to know a guy who lived in one of the old houses in that district and over time he grew to hate it. He told horror stories about the bureaucratic hoops he had to jump through just to get permission to paint his house. He needed to replace some old decaying wood on his porch, and it took several months to get the EEHD board to approve it. He finally sold the house and moved out to another area on the island. 

 

He says beautiful historic neighborhoods can be nice, for tourists, but not so much for people who live there. He said it's like living in a museum.

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I went to Galveston in 2012 for a relative's wedding. It was cloudy and windy for a good part of the trip, and everything was run-down and fairly ugly. Even the historic building where they were having the wedding was clearly starting to fall apart, and the Strand was just nothing like it was even four years prior. There were a couple of touristy gift shops and a head shop open. Shops along Seawall Boulevard included things like "Bad Boyz Tatu".

 

I can admit that in Houston, "old downtown-style buildings" and original houses do tend to have a short "shelf life" but it all depends on what neighborhood you're in.

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Not sure. A few months later (after Prudential), the same demo company (can't remember the name) did an 18-level hotel in College Station, except there the furniture was donated, the wiring stripped, etc. They even had it used by firemen and police officers as training. By the time was imploded, you could see through the building, because there was nothing there.

 

Prudential probably was salvaged somehow.

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