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Rail to Uptown in time for the Super Bowl?


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You say this as if it were a bad thing. By moving to Los Angeles, the Dodgers ended up becoming one of the most successful franchises in all of sports. You make it sound like being one of the most valuable teams in sports is terrible. 

 

Your value system makes no sense whatsoever. You think capitalism is bad. You think liberty is bad. You think everything except subways and tenements is bad. I want nothing of whatever you like.

 

And, I actually LIKE mass transit. I just don't like the communist version that you are pushing. I don't think the US was founded on forcing people to sell their cars and get on a train.

 

I'm thinking from the perspective of fans of Brooklyn Dodgers. Also that franchise had a LOT of history. For NY to lose two franchises like that was heartbreaking. How did you feel when the Oilers left?

 

As for the rest of the things you're saying, that's all a mass exaggeration.

 

I feel like I live in a communist state as far as transit is concerned, we have no options except driving for the most part. Me fighting for a better transit system is considered communist, yet the people in charge are the ones who have been trying their level best to stop any type of reasonable alternative. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

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??   The Olympics have been terrible for many cities that hosted it, leaving them with a legacy of debt and useless facilities that can't be transitioned into something usable again. I will fight to

So to summarize to this point in what promises to be a thread rivaling the Univ Line thread for pegging the off-topic meter:   Slick is: a near-constant world traveler with a family composed entire

Apropos of nothing in particular...  what became of the "ignore" feature on this forum?

 How did you feel when the Oilers left?

 

If and only if the Texans win the Superbowl, will the day the Oilers left be superseded in my mind of the being the best sporting day in Houston's history.

 

A close second was the look on Bud Adams face when the Titans got within a yard of actually winning the super bowl.

 

I am very glad that guy is out of our town.

 

Oh, and I was in the dome when Mike Scott pitched his no-hitter, and I still say this. (of course, these days, everyone that lived in Houston in 1986 says they were at the dome, but I really and truly was at the dome, my mom liked to take me to baseball games).

Edited by samagon
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I feel like I live in a communist state as far as transit is concerned, we have no options except driving for the most part. Me fighting for a better transit system is considered communist, yet the people in charge are the ones who have been trying their level best to stop any type of reasonable alternative. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

It's funny you feel that way since the remaining communist countries have the following car ownership rates:

cuba 38 cars/1000 people

china 85/1000

north korea 11/1000

vietnam 13/1000

laos 20/1000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita

Many citizens of communist countries are forced to live in tenements, as there is no private property ownership, and have some of the lowest car ownership rates in the world. Isn't that what you've been arguing for all along?

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Not only that, but we are threatened if we try to correct that one person. The moderators need to take all of these thread hijacks by Slick and combine them into one thread. That way Slick can just post once in one thread. And, they need to delete every one of his hijacks of other threads.

He brings activity to this section so his leash is long tbh

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It's funny you feel that way since the remaining communist countries have the following car ownership rates:

cuba 38 cars/1000 people

china 85/1000

north korea 11/1000

vietnam 13/1000

laos 20/1000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita

Many citizens of communist countries are forced to live in tenements, as there is no private property ownership, and have some of the lowest car ownership rates in the world. Isn't that what you've been arguing for all along?

 

Just like residents are forced to ride a horrific bus system or shell up thousands to buy a car. Why should we not be allowed a good public transportation system like every other "world class" city?

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I feel like I live in a communist state as far as transit is concerned, we have no options except driving for the most part. Me fighting for a better transit system is considered communist, yet the people in charge are the ones who have been trying their level best to stop any type of reasonable alternative. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

I love this! So basically you're saying that the lack of state-owned transit system makes this like a communist state? Actually, that's the absolute polar opposite of a communist state.

To quote Inigo Montoya - you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Just like residents are forced to ride a horrific bus system or shell up thousands to buy a car. Why should we not be allowed a good public transportation system like every other "world class" city?

Why is a bus system that can take you from just about anywhere to just about anywhere in the service area, which is very large, particularly horrific?

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I love this! So basically you're saying that the lack of state-owned transit system makes this like a communist state? Actually, that's the absolute polar opposite of a communist state.

To quote Inigo Montoya - you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

The policies of politicians have made it such that without a car you are basically worthless in this city.

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Why is a bus system that can take you from just about anywhere to just about anywhere in the service area, which is very large, particularly horrific?

 

Do you ride the bus system on a daily basis? Do you know how inconsistent it is? Has a bus driver drove right past you? Have buses you've waited for not shown up? Are you annoyed by the infrequency of buses? Do you find buses to be loud and polluting? Do you know how long it to takes to get from one place to another particularly during rush hour because of being stuck in traffic with other cars?

 

Well being that self-admittedly you've worked at home for years, I don't think so. This is the part I find ironic. The people saying to "ride the bus" never ride the bus themselves.

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The policies of politicians have made it such that without a car you are basically worthless in this city.

Why do you feel worthless? Because you want a car and can't afford one? That's nothing to be ashamed about. Lot's of people in Houston don't have cars and rely on the bus system. Some even deliberately choose not to have a car.

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Why do you feel worthless? Because you want a car and can't afford one? That's nothing to be ashamed about. Lot's of people in Houston don't have cars and rely on the bus system. Some even deliberately choose not to have a car.

 

I have a Mercedes S class, I have nothing to be ashamed of.

 

Do you even know anyone that relies on the bus system? I do, and they all think the same thing, our bus system sucks.

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Do you ride the bus system on a daily basis? Do you know how inconsistent it is? Has a bus driver drove right past you? Have buses you've waited for not shown up? Are you annoyed by the infrequency of buses? Do you find buses to be loud and polluting? Do you know how long it to takes to get from one place to another particularly during rush hour because of being stuck in traffic with other cars?

 

Well being that self-admittedly you've worked at home for years, I don't think so. This is the part I find ironic. The people saying to "ride the bus" never ride the bus themselves.

I do ride the bus from time to time. And I have had drivers drive by, been on a bus that has broken down, and had to wait for buses. How is that particularly "horrific"? Does that not happen in other cities?

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I do ride the bus from time to time. And I have had drivers drive by, been on a bus that has broken down, and had to wait for buses. How is that particularly "horrific"? Does that not happen in other cities?

 

I would say the biggest problem is infrequency. Also some routes have heavily underutilized, while some need more buses running. Some buses only run every 40 minutes. That's my biggest gripe.

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Honest question, how do you rate Atlanta train + bus against Houston train + bus? I've never been to Atlanta so I'll take your word for it.

My experience is 13 years old at this point, but in the 90's the marta train was nice and I used it from time to time but the bus system didn't really serve the greater Atlanta area very well. In part that is because the Atlanta area is an amalgam of many different local governments that don't always play well together. One of the things that impressed me when I moved here was how a single transit agency covered much of the area.

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I have a Mercedes S class, I have nothing to be ashamed of.

Interesting choice of car given many of your posts. Frankly, I suspected you either had no car or had a luxury vehicle. Was it a gift? Edited by august948
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I do, and yes, it sucks.

 

The new app is cool, a major improvement since the timetables are a farce.

The new app is very cool, though it's a little clunky. Hopefully it will get better with time. Question on bus service: do you think the service problems are management and design related (solvable) or inherent to such a system (not solvable)?

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I have mixed feelings on light rail. I understand the desire to move a number of people that outnumber a busload from place to place but also wonder if its worth the cost in Houston. Sure, we sit in traffic but there are a number of reasons people prefer buses or their own cars to a potential light rail system all over the city (if that's even a speck in someone's eye).

 

Look at cities with what most would consider "great" light rail/subway/train systems and you'll still find traffic. Portland has a pretty extensive light rail and bus network but there are still places that are difficult to reach without a vehicle (within the city limits). They also have a pretty bad traffic problem.

 

Atlanta has a decent subway system linked up with a mediocre bus system. The reach is still limited and the traffic is horrific.

 

Last but not least, the city I am most familiar with, NY. I have spent the better part of the last year commuting from Houston here for work and while the subway is great, there are still places in the city you can't reach (try getting to parts of the far east or west sides on the subway), the traffic is worse than Houston and riding the subway at rush hour in the warmer months can best be described as humbling. The bus system even more so. The airports are all reachable by public transit but all involve connections and none is particularly convenient. JFK is probably the easiest of the three and if you don't mind riding the bus, LGA isn't too bad.

 

My point is this: we can try to emulate other systems that somewhat work or we can adapt and develop a system that works well for our city. The rapid bus system is great and needs to be expanded. METRO should look at its stops and place them in better locations if it is the right thing to do. Make real time data available about buses and make the system as easy as possible for riders to understand. And if there is a need for rail somewhere, do it. But don't just start building rail simply because the cool kids did.

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My experience is 13 years old at this point, but in the 90's the marta train was nice and I used it from time to time but the bus system didn't really serve the greater Atlanta area very well. In part that is because the Atlanta area is an amalgam of many different local governments that don't always play well together. One of the things that impressed me when I moved here was how a single transit agency covered much of the area.

 

Yeah, it really is a shame the Atlanta area can't get it together with the local governments.  As a result MARTA is severely limited in it's service area. 

 

It has a great, if unfinished, rail system though and ridership is very good for a post WWII growth city.

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The policies of politicians have made it such that without a car you are basically worthless in this city.

Regardless of which, it's still not Communist. The voters have chosen representatives that have put these policies into place. The voters have voted down referendums that would have allowed these policies. In a communist system, the only form of transportation would be state-run and the voters would not have had these options.

You are using language as propaganda. You made the comparison to Hitler earlier, but the manipulation of words that you are using is exactly what Goebbels and the Nazis did.

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I have mixed feelings on light rail. I understand the desire to move a number of people that outnumber a busload from place to place but also if its worth the cost in Houston. Sure, we sit in traffic but there are a number of reasons prefer buses or their own cars to a potential light rail system all over the city (if that's even a speck in someone's eye).

Look at cities with what most would consider "great" light rail/subway/train systems and you'll still find traffic. Portland has a pretty extensive light rail and bus network but there are still places that are difficult to reach without a vehicle (within the city limits). They also have a pretty bad traffic problem.

Atlanta has a decent subway system linked up with a mediocre bus system. The reach is still limited and the traffic is horrific.

Last but not least, the city I am most familiar with, NY. I have spent the better part of the last year commuting from Houston here for work and while the subway is great, there are still places in the city you can't reach (try getting to parts of the far east or west sides on the subway), the traffic is worse than Houston and riding the subway at rush hour in the warmer months can best be described as humbling.

My point is this: we can try to emulate other systems that somewhat work or we can adapt and develop a system that works well for our city. The rapid bus system is great and needs to be expanded. METRO should look at its stops and place them in better locations if it is the right thing to do. Make real time data available about buses and make the system as easy as possible for riders to understand. And if there is a need for rail somewhere, do it. But don't just start building rail simply because the cool kids did.

I appreciate your attempt to restore relevance to this conversation and the fact that you have clearly put a measure of thought into your comments.

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I've spent a lot of time in London over the years. The transportation system there is good, but it doesn't make life a panoply of unicorns and rainbows. It's not fast, and it's crowded. There's nothing like spending 30 minutes with your nose in someone elses armpit to make you wish for the comfort of your car, even if it is expensive to drive.

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I have mixed feelings on light rail. I understand the desire to move a number of people that outnumber a busload from place to place but also wonder if its worth the cost in Houston. Sure, we sit in traffic but there are a number of reasons people prefer buses or their own cars to a potential light rail system all over the city (if that's even a speck in someone's eye).

Look at cities with what most would consider "great" light rail/subway/train systems and you'll still find traffic. Portland has a pretty extensive light rail and bus network but there are still places that are difficult to reach without a vehicle (within the city limits). They also have a pretty bad traffic problem.

Atlanta has a decent subway system linked up with a mediocre bus system. The reach is still limited and the traffic is horrific.

Last but not least, the city I am most familiar with, NY. I have spent the better part of the last year commuting from Houston here for work and while the subway is great, there are still places in the city you can't reach (try getting to parts of the far east or west sides on the subway), the traffic is worse than Houston and riding the subway at rush hour in the warmer months can best be described as humbling. The bus system even more so. The airports are all reachable by public transit but all involve connections and none is particularly convenient. JFK is probably the easiest of the three and if you don't mind riding the bus, LGA isn't too bad.

My point is this: we can try to emulate other systems that somewhat work or we can adapt and develop a system that works well for our city. The rapid bus system is great and needs to be expanded. METRO should look at its stops and place them in better locations if it is the right thing to do. Make real time data available about buses and make the system as easy as possible for riders to understand. And if there is a need for rail somewhere, do it. But don't just start building rail simply because the cool kids did.

At least there are options tho. Not everyone has a car or wants to drive it everyday.

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I've spent a lot of time in London over the years. The transportation system there is good, but it doesn't make life a panoply of unicorns and rainbows. It's not fast, and it's crowded. There's nothing like spending 30 minutes with your nose in someone elses armpit to make you wish for the comfort of your car, even if it is expensive to drive.

My wife and her family come from a third world country where car ownership is very, very low and you either walk or take some sort of shared or public transport. Having had to use public transit, they won't set foot anywhere near a bus or a train if they can avoid it. They actually make faces if you even suggest it. I've found that true of everyone I've known from countries where cars aren't affordable to the general public and it's also why I get amused when people insist that things are so much better in places like Bogota or Istanbul.

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My wife and her family come from a third world country where car ownership is very, very low and you either walk or take some sort of shared or public transport. Having had to use public transit, they won't set foot anywhere near a bus or a train if they can avoid it. They actually make faces if you even suggest it. I've found that true of everyone I've known from countries where cars aren't affordable to the general public and it's also why I get amused when people insist that things are so much better in places like Bogota or Istanbul.

 

I've lived in third world countries, and without exception, the goal of the locals I knew was to own a car. A major benefit for most employees was an employer provided bus to get to work.

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My wife and her family come from a third world country where car ownership is very, very low and you either walk or take some sort of shared or public transport. Having had to use public transit, they won't set foot anywhere near a bus or a train if they can avoid it. They actually make faces if you even suggest it. I've found that true of everyone I've known from countries where cars aren't affordable to the general public and it's also why I get amused when people insist that things are so much better in places like Bogota or Istanbul.

My entire family comes from a similar situation and not one of them has any problem with public transit they actually prefer it. I'm not sure what your point is.

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Regardless of which, it's still not Communist. The voters have chosen representatives that have put these policies into place. The voters have voted down referendums that would have allowed these policies. In a communist system, the only form of transportation would be state-run and the voters would not have had these options.

You are using language as propaganda. You made the comparison to Hitler earlier, but the manipulation of words that you are using is exactly what Goebbels and the Nazis did.

The voters have also voted referendums twice for expansion of public transportaion, and the result has been 60% of one of the two projects. That's not democracy it's hypocrisy.

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My experience is 13 years old at this point, but in the 90's the marta train was nice and I used it from time to time but the bus system didn't really serve the greater Atlanta area very well. In part that is because the Atlanta area is an amalgam of many different local governments that don't always play well together. One of the things that impressed me when I moved here was how a single transit agency covered much of the area.

Well there won't be any expansion since the referendum for the tax to expand was rejected. Not surprising since tax is political suicide in the south.

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Interesting choice of car given many of your posts. Frankly, I suspected you either had no car or had a luxury vehicle. Was it a gift?

It was a gift. I'd sell it but to be inoffensive I haven't. I bought a prius personally and drive that when I need to drive mostly.

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The voters have also voted referendums twice for expansion of public transportaion, and the result has been 60% of one of the two projects. That's not democracy it's hypocrisy.

No, that's the beauty of democracy at work. If something passes due to low voter turnout, a well-executed ad campaign, or maybe just the strong backing of a few influential or well-connected people but doesn't really have broad-based, long term voter support there are always opportunities to reverse or change it.

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My entire family comes from a similar situation and not one of them has any problem with public transit they actually prefer it. I'm not sure what your point is.

The point is that my experience jibes with that of Ross's post above.

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My entire family comes from a similar situation and not one of them has any problem with public transit they actually prefer it. I'm not sure what your point is.

 

It is worth noting that while this may be true of you and your family, it is not true for the overwhelming majority of people. It should not be found to be surprising that most people prefer convenience. Automobiles represent convenience. While you may find a myriad of reasons why convenience is bad, from Peak Oil to healthy walking, it does not change the fact that most people prefer an automobile to public transit of any kind. That includes Third Worlders. It is human nature.

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It is worth noting that while this may be true of you and your family, it is not true for the overwhelming majority of people. It should not be found to be surprising that most people prefer convenience. Automobiles represent convenience. While you may find a myriad of reasons why convenience is bad, from Peak Oil to healthy walking, it does not change the fact that most people prefer an automobile to public transit of any kind. That includes Third Worlders. It is human nature.

 

It's also worth noting that the notion that we can entice people to live in urban environments by providing rail or at least limit traffic from suburban areas by providing rail has been pretty much a failure. All three cities that I mentioned in my initial post, Portland, Atlanta, and NY all have subways and buses linking the suburban areas to the urban areas and downtown. All three still have large chunks of the population that live in suburban areas, lured by cheaper home prices and in some cases, a lot more space (NYC) and yet all three still have major traffic issues from suburban areas. Sure, a lot of people on Long Island or in Westchester County or Connecticut take the train but a huge number drive and the morning commute proves it.

 

I work with a lot of people who live outside of NYC and drive into the office. They have train options but still prefer to drive themselves and pay the  :blink: parking prices.

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So to summarize to this point in what promises to be a thread rivaling the Univ Line thread for pegging the off-topic meter:

 

Slick is:

a near-constant world traveler with a family composed entirely of 3rd world immigrants, all of whom prefer any form of public transit over individual transit

 

and an owner of 1 luxury car whose ownership demographic is in the top ~1% of the world's population, with a 2nd car whose ownership demographic is in the top ~5% of the world's population - and in the top .0000004% of the smugness demographic

 

and a person who apparently has been forced against his will to live in:

a city that not only ignores the voters, but also rules through a combination of communist and southern kneejerk anti-tax policies in order to carry out the nefarious decades-long conspiracy of GM, the US, state, and local governments, concrete corporations, Big Oil, and Rush Limbaugh to kill all public modes of transit that don't burn petroleum products.

 

and in a nation that through its economic imperialism and bullying foreign policy literally is consuming all of the resources of planet earth in order to satisfy the insatiable consumerism of its overfed, automobile-dependent, single family house-dwelling population

 

Slick has nevertheless chosen to remain in this hell on earth and fight the good fight to bring enlightenment to the thoughtless hedonists that make up the US population

 

 

The rest of the posters on the thread (including yours truly) are:

reduced to banal responses to each new Slick post that launches a new tangent only faintly related to the thread topic

 

and that ability makes Slick an accomplished troll, b/c the posters on HAIF are for the most part an intelligent lot given to interesting & informative discussion with a dollop of good humor and wit.

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a near-constant world traveler with a family composed entirely of 3rd world immigrants, all of whom prefer any form of public transit over individual transit

and an owner of 1 luxury car whose ownership demographic is in the top ~1% of the world's population, with a 2nd car whose ownership demographic is in the top ~5% of the world's population - and in the top .0000004% of the smugness demographic

Hmmm...drives a luxury sedan and takes frequent plane trips overseas, only one of which can put more pounds of CO2 in the air than a whole year of commuting from in a Prius. And then lectures about how unsustainable suburbs are. Everyone, please welcome Al Gore to the forum.

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Well, since the topic question was completely and accurately answered in post #3, the only way to keep the thread going is to post only remotely...or not even remotely...relevant information to the thread.

If you can tie it into rail, uptown or the superbowl it should be fair game. Just end each post with who you favor for the 2017 superbowl and it's all good. ;)

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