Retail Center At 250 West 20th St.

[samagon]

The Heights is bounded by railroad tracks to the north and south.  I can hear the trains up north and outside of the quiet zone in the south at 3 am.  There is a rail yard just next to the TX Jester bridge.  Everything between White Oak Bayou and the bike trail is warehouse/industrial. The First Ward is just on the other side of I-10 and is almost all industrial.  Eastwood has seen industry expand while the Heights saw it contract.  But that is because the neighborhood kept areas like 19th street, which attracted redevelopment.  I am not saying that 19th st is the only reason the Heights redeveloped or that everyone came to the Heights because of 19th st.  I am saying that it is a major factor in the redevelopment of the Heights and a major reason that the area is seen as desireable and worth the high premium.  According to people on his board, 19th st. is some sort of liability that people tolerate when they move to the neighborhood.  That is completely off the wall wrong. 

 

You still have no idea what you're talking about regarding Eastwood.

 

Regarding the 19th street retail....

 

"the retail on 19th street is the cultural epicenter of the resurgence of the heights" - said no one ever

[Tiko]

Red maybe you'll know this better than me... (i've only been around for 7 years), but wasn't white linen nights started because 19th street was on the verge of drying up and dying (despite the turnaround the neighborhood was making).  WLN is my favorite heights event... because everything on 19th (as well as other streets) stays open late.

 

I don't think so, WLN is a good idea but I think it started because all the Katrina refugees brought the idea over from NO.  Seems like the Heights Street Festival was just as big, though my memory may be playing tricks.  Totally different crowd, of course.  The "old" part of 19th seems to have been relatively stable over the years with most of the growth coming from the "new" part west of Ashland.

[s3mh]

If you replaced your old windows with new energy effecient insulated windows you probably wouldn't hear those trains anymore...

 

 

Red maybe you'll know this better than me... (i've only been around for 7 years), but wasn't white linen nights started because 19th street was on the verge of drying up and dying (despite the turnaround the neighborhood was making).  WLN is my favorite heights event... because everything on 19th (as well as other streets) stays open late.

 

White Linen Nights has always been a Heights-wide celebration that had 19th st. as a focal point.  Katrina relocated artists from New Orleans worked with Heights artists to recreate the New Orleans event in the Heights.  19th st has seen some turnover but has always had good success in leasing.  It has never been anywhere close to "drying up and dying".  It has just improved steadily over the years and is almost 100% leased. 

[SilverJK]

White Linen Nights has always been a Heights-wide celebration that had 19th st. as a focal point.  Katrina relocated artists from New Orleans worked with Heights artists to recreate the New Orleans event in the Heights.  19th st has seen some turnover but has always had good success in leasing.  It has never been anywhere close to "drying up and dying".  It has just improved steadily over the years and is almost 100% leased. 

 

Weird... I thought the whole purpose of the 19th street businesses supporting WLN was to help drive their businesses which need more people.  You are so out of touch with reality it is amazing.  If what 19th street was was so successful, then why did its most iconic store (Harrold's) have to close down?  I know a few places on 19th street are only open because the owners don't care about money.  One person I spoke with several years ago (who's shop has since closed) told me they had actually operated at a loss for the past year, but kept the store open because it gave them something to do.  I have a feeling some of the other places are in a similar situation, eventually they will be priced out.  I'm curious about the new "Green Painter" store.  Their other store (New Living) does pretty well over near Rice Village...  I think what we are seeing on 19th street is just a prolonged death of several stores and the eventual phasing in of new desirable stores/restaurants/bars/etc.  Torchy's replacing Harrolds is a great example.

 

I guess your still new here,   there has been a ton of turnover on 19th, and at least 3-4 places had going out of business signs up in their windows for the longest time.  (they eventually did go out of business). 

[s3mh]

Weird... I thought the whole purpose of the 19th street businesses supporting WLN was to help drive their businesses which need more people.  You are so out of touch with reality it is amazing.  If what 19th street was was so successful, then why did its most iconic store (Harrold's) have to close down?  I know a few places on 19th street are only open because the owners don't care about money.  One person I spoke with several years ago (who's shop has since closed) told me they had actually operated at a loss for the past year, but kept the store open because it gave them something to do.  I have a feeling some of the other places are in a similar situation, eventually they will be priced out.  I'm curious about the new "Green Painter" store.  Their other store (New Living) does pretty well over near Rice Village...  I think what we are seeing on 19th street is just a prolonged death of several stores and the eventual phasing in of new desirable stores/restaurants/bars/etc.  Torchy's replacing Harrolds is a great example.

 

I guess your still new here,   there has been a ton of turnover on 19th, and at least 3-4 places had going out of business signs up in their windows for the longest time.  (they eventually did go out of business). 

 

WLN was marketed to 19th st businesses as a way to promote their businesses, but was not started by 19th street businesses as a way to keep 19th st from "drying up and dying out".  19th street's success is that it has been able to quickly replace outgoing businesses with new ones.  The polar opposite of drying up and dying out.  If 19th was drying up and dying out, it would have been emptied out, sold and demoed.  Instead, it is attracting more and more interest.  If all those awful nick nack shops were such a pox on the neighborhood, you would not see 19th street just one shop short of being fully leased. 

 

Harold's closed because Harold Weisenthal retired and merged the store with Norton Ditto.  Harold's son managed the store, but eventually left.  The Norton Ditto folks had no interest in investing in the store to update it and make it competitive and closed it.  Harold's simply had run its course. 

[RedScare]

 The polar opposite of drying up and dying out.  If 19th was drying up and dying out, it would have been emptied out, sold and demoed.

 

 

Norton Ditto folks had no interest in investing in the store to update it and make it competitive and closed it.  Harold's simply had run its course.

 

 As the Heights turns younger...if in fact it is turning younger...those junk stores will fade away. If the Heights fills up with retiring Baby Boomers, those old farts will keep the junk stores open. Pretty simple, really.

 

On another tangent, as if to prove that restauranteurs don't like dry areas, Ruds is opening up nearby. Not quite 19th Street, but they can get a liquor license here.

 

 http://blog.chron.com/29-95/2013/05/rudyards-british-pub-owner-opening-up-bar-music-venue-in-the-heights/?cmpid=hpfsln

[Ross]

 As the Heights turns younger...if in fact it is turning younger...those junk stores will fade away. If the Heights fills up with retiring Baby Boomers, those old farts will keep the junk stores open. Pretty simple, really.

 

On another tangent, as if to prove that restauranteurs don't like dry areas, Ruds is opening up nearby. Not quite 19th Street, but they can get a liquor license here.

 

 http://blog.chron.com/29-95/2013/05/rudyards-british-pub-owner-opening-up-bar-music-venue-in-the-heights/?cmpid=hpfsln

In the old KMart building? Competition for the Corkscrew.

[TGM]

Look at the success of Menchi's if you are looking for an example of what the majority of the population of the Heights wants. Drive by Menchis at any open hour of the day and I bet 10:1 that it has three times more customers than any thrift or other heights store.

According to Mint.com Menchis received $450 of our targeted Heights expenditures. Can't seem to locate any money spent at the bohemian trinket shop. Penzy's took in around $300 for gifts and whatnot. Again, can't seem to locate any for musty antique stores. Rather odd... Then again these businesses do stay open later to accommodate demand, rather than shutting down at 420.

[Marksmu]

According to Mint.com Menchis received $450 of our targeted Heights expenditures. Can't seem to locate any money spent at the bohemian trinket shop. Penzy's took in around $300 for gifts and whatnot. Again, can't seem to locate any for musty antique stores. Rather odd... Then again these businesses do stay open later to accommodate demand, rather than shutting down at 420.

There is no question that Menchi's is decimating all the silly niche shops. The bigger question is how everyone on this thread sees the exact same thing except for one person who apparently only is capable of seeing what they want to see.

19th IS in a steady state of decline when compared to the constantly improving demographics of the area. Success for these stores would mean improving sales, not stagnant just enough to get by sales.

Stores like Menchi's will take over, it's not a matter of if, but rather just when.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Marksmu

[RedScare]

19th Street is a relic of another time. This is why some residents like it. They can take friends or relatives to look at it from time to time. It is a museum, not a retail area. As such, it has no real use in its current state. Progress will eventually steamroll the old 19th Street in favor of something useful. Its supporters will be left to lament its decline and fall, likely blaming other Heights residents and "big box" stores for its demise.

[Marksmu]

19th Street is a relic of another time. This is why some residents like it. They can take friends or relatives to look at it from time to time. It is a museum, not a retail area. As such, it has no real use in its current state. Progress will eventually steamroll the old 19th Street in favor of something useful. Its supporters will be left to lament its decline and fall, likely blaming other Heights residents and "big box" stores for its demise.

 

I agree 100%.  The fate of 19th is already established, its just a matter of when the systematic replacement of stores is complete.  While the stores will become something normal people shop at, I do believe that most places will try to work with the buildings already there.  I doubt that 19th will just be bulldozed into modern shopping centers. 

[TGM]

Nothing is set in stone that states that mom & pops always fail and corporate franchises always succeed. Savy owners and operators know how to meet the needs of their customers or they learn by their costly failure. (Some don't learn, they just have big trust funds)

For example... Boomtown Coffee. Good coffee, passionate owner, but I don't go because the cigar smoke from the place next door is so bad that I cannot stand to be there more than 10 minutes. The cigar place has been there longer than Boomtown, and I'm all for people enjoying whatever makes them happy, but there is an impact to adjoining businesses. I'm not sure Boomtown's owners fully grasped what they would be dealing with when choosing that location. I hope they make it, but I won't be surprised if they don't. However, if Starbucks were to show up, and Boomtown inevitably closes 19th street lovers would be crying out that corporations killed the mom & pop. Adapt and change or fall by the wayside.

[s3mh]

19th Street is a relic of another time. This is why some residents like it. They can take friends or relatives to look at it from time to time. It is a museum, not a retail area. As such, it has no real use in its current state. Progress will eventually steamroll the old 19th Street in favor of something useful. Its supporters will be left to lament its decline and fall, likely blaming other Heights residents and "big box" stores for its demise.

 

Quite to the contrary, 19th street is an example of something old becoming new again.  It is one shop away from being fully leased.  Ainbinder's strip mall on 19th still has two empty pads.  People like 19th street because it is different.  Houston has miles of retail strip malls with national retail chains and restaurants.  19th street is one of the few places in Houston where you can find unique gifts, home decor, boutique and resale clothing and other interesting things all in one walkable area.  Peolpe come in from the burbs to shop 19th street because it is so unique.  Braun Enterprises understood this and turned down a national restaurant chain in favor of Torchy's because of the character of 19th st. 

[Marksmu]

Quite to the contrary, 19th street is an example of something old becoming new again.  It is one shop away from being fully leased.  Ainbinder's strip mall on 19th still has two empty pads.  People like 19th street because it is different.  Houston has miles of retail strip malls with national retail chains and restaurants.  19th street is one of the few places in Houston where you can find unique gifts, home decor, boutique and resale clothing and other interesting things all in one walkable area.  Peolpe come in from the burbs to shop 19th street because it is so unique.  Braun Enterprises understood this and turned down a national restaurant chain in favor of Torchy's because of the character of 19th st. 

 

Nobody is advocating tearing down the buildings and replacing the stores with national chains.  Rather - what is going to happen over time - I am certain - is that places that people go on a more regular basis are going to move in.  Torchy's is a great example.  Its a normal person place and its somewhere folks will actually go regularly.  Just like Collina's, normal folks go there regularly....Collina's business is booming....Menchi's may be a national chain, but its locally owned, and its business is booming.  These are all welcome additions to 19th.  What is not needed on 19th?  A record place...antiques, knick knack jewelry, another check cashing place, etc.

 

The stores currently on 19th are niche - and niche gets pushed out of desirable areas as the rents rise.  They just flat can't keep up.  19th can be destined for greatness as soon as it sheds the worthless retail and replaces it with destination restaurants....until then, its dying...whether you care to admit it or not.

[s3mh]

 What is not needed on 19th?  A record place...

 

The record store does a great business.  Apparently, the kids today like records and use them to "dee jay", or something like that.

 

And for all of you who want a live music venue on 19th, your wish will be granted on a much more appropriate section of 20th in Shady Acres:

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2013/05/21/rudyards-british-pub-owner-to-open.html

[samagon]

The record store does a great business.  Apparently, the kids today like records and use them to "dee jay", or something like that.

 

I thought you said hipsters don't live in the Heights?

[SilverJK]

haha  remember that time s3mh told us all about how "the kids" use records to make sounds.  

 

 

How can you possibly think the trinket stores are going to be sustainable?  Do you really think they are going to steadily increase in sales?   Braun passed on a national chain for a unique successful texas chain that is going to pay the same rent???  What a forward thinker!

[SilverJK]

I thought you said hipsters don't live in the Heights?

 

They're not hipsters... they're "the kids".  I bet the average record purcahser is over 35.

Edited May 22, 2013 by SilverJK

[samagon]

They're not hipsters... they're "the kids".  I bet the average record purcahser is over 35.

 

Ask my mom. My sister's 40 and I'm 37, we're still referred to as kids.

[bedmondson]

Not sure how some of these retail experts on here decide on what constitutes "normal people shopping" and "normal person places". Isn't it a little conceited to suggest anything they themselves don't frequent to be abnormal? Likely these experts couldn't afford the Rice Village area, settled on the Heights, and are frustrated when they can't figure out why they still don't have a Starbucks or a GAP down the street?!  

 

Here is a prediction! In 5 years on 19th there will be a few more restaurants, a few more "junk stores", and maybe somehow a Pier 1 slips in for the retail experts. Everybody wins!

[s3mh]

haha  remember that time s3mh told us all about how "the kids" use records to make sounds.  

 

 

How can you possibly think the trinket stores are going to be sustainable?  Do you really think they are going to steadily increase in sales?   Braun passed on a national chain for a unique successful texas chain that is going to pay the same rent???  What a forward thinker!

 

Who said that Torchy's was willing to match the offer from the national chain?

 

It isn't what I or you think that matters.  It is what the landlord thinks.  Buffalo Exchange was replaced by Thread, a children's consignment shop.  The paint it yourself pottery place was replaced by Style Cycle, another resale shop with clothes and home goods.  Jubilee, the king of the trinket stores, has been so successful that it expanded to two store fronts and took up the space that used to be the exercise studio.  Chippendale Antiques just redid their exterior stucco facade--not something you do when you are about to go out of business. 

 

19th street will evolve, but will never turn into another strip mall development with national retailers and restaurant chains.  In fact, kicking out all the tenants and replacing them with the Gap, Eddie Bauer and other national retailers would just be the landlord shooting himself in the foot.  Regent Square is finally on the way and will add a lot of retail sq ft.  River Oaks District and BLVD Place are adding tons of retail sq ft in the Galleria.  There will be plenty of developments near the Heights for national retailers to occupy.  And a revamped 19th st. would not be big enough to compete with the aforementioned developments.  19th st. makes good money because it is unique. 

 

Here is the story on Crickets:

 

http://houston.eater.com/tags/michael-alborn

 

Another example on how 19th st may upgrade, but will always remain the same.  Crickets is not replaced by Starbucks or Pinkberry.  It is just upgraded.  I will miss John's recipes, but look forward to an upgrade that will keep them open for dinner.

[RedScare]

Not sure how some of these retail experts on here decide on what constitutes "normal people shopping" and "normal person places". Isn't it a little conceited to suggest anything they themselves don't frequent to be abnormal? Likely these experts couldn't afford the Rice Village area, settled on the Heights, and are frustrated when they can't figure out why they still don't have a Starbucks or a GAP down the street?!  

 

Here is a prediction! In 5 years on 19th there will be a few more restaurants, a few more "junk stores", and maybe somehow a Pier 1 slips in for the retail experts. Everybody wins!

 

Heh heh. Yeah, that's it. We're the poors. That's why we are badmouthing a bunch of secondhand stores, because us poors don't like secondhand stuff. Two thumbs up for your logic skills!

[TGM]

They're not hipsters... they're "the kids". I bet the average record purcahser is over 35.

Like things are not already pedantic enough around here...

I guess that all depends on what you consider average. DJ's? Audiophiles? College Students?

Most of the 220 gram vinyl I see these days is the kids/hipster crowd as this is the demographic that has rediscovered vinyl.

The Audiophiles have moved on to SACD, DVD-Audio, Blu-spec CD's and whatever else evolves at that end of things.

DJ'S... I see cheap DJ-targeted CD players with pitch control, etc, but I've never come across a cheap Techniques 1200MK2.

[Montrose1100]

I enjoy my once in a blue moon trips to 19th St. Even though I don't buy clothing from any of the stores, I will buy smaller (overpriced) items that I find charming. Stop and have a cup of coffee and then continue checking out the other stores. Not enough of them to sustain me justifying going before lunch, and staying long enough to eat there.

 

Still have my Jacinto Monument-shaped award for some long forgotten media member. It's the center piece of my bookshelf. Other then those stores I have no reason to venture into the neighborhood.

[TGM]

19th street is one of the few places in Houston where you can find unique gifts, home decor, boutique and resale clothing and other interesting things all in one walkable area. Peolpe come in from the burbs to shop 19th street because it is so unique.

Besides Westheimer, West Gray, University bvld, Kirby, S. Shepherd, etc.

People from the burbs also come to Old Town Spring, which has kept the area alive in the face of declining methamphetamine prices.

I think 19th shop owners should be required to remain in character ala Rennesaince Festival workers while tending their shops.

[RedScare]

19th street is one of the few places in Houston where you can find unique gifts, home decor, boutique and resale clothing and other interesting things all in one walkable area. Peolpe come in from the burbs to shop 19th street because it is so unique.

 

This is the kind of quote that makes those people who never go to 19th Street say, 'Oh, they should keep all of those cute stores', but it makes those of us who live here roll our eyes and gag at the sheer over-exaggeration of it all. 

 

I've noticed that the opposing viewpoint is evolving in his argument. First, he accused us of wanting big niteclubs and wholesale demolitions when no one ever said that. Now, he is actually using our arguments as his own. He claims 19th will evolve (which is what we are saying), and uses Torchy's as an example (which is what we want). Seems the only point left is that he loves the junk dealers (we don't care). He even admits evolution will occur (we said it first).

 

This debate is over. We win.

Edited May 22, 2013 by RedScare

[JJxvi]

Everybody wins except "Heights Baptist" which has been sold and is getting demolished and no part will remain. RIP Heights Baptist. We hardly knew ye.

Edited May 22, 2013 by JJxvi

[RedScare]

They win too. They get millions of dollars to redo their building for the benefit of 300 members.

[TGM]

Good news!

[JJxvi]

They win too. They get millions of dollars to redo their building for the benefit of 300 members.

 

The joke was that they do not exist and have never existed, in addition to the misrepresentation in the OP.

Edited May 22, 2013 by JJxvi