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Braun Buys Heights Baptist On 20th St. To Demolish For Retail


s3mh

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This Baptist Temple thing is really kinda tame, small beans.  The real story will be what is Weingarten's long term plan for the block across the street. When they redevelop or sell, will it be retail like the Village Arcade? Will it be apartments? Both?

Edited by JJxvi
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Those stores are there because they make $$$. Even the Label Wharehouse. Why do you hate free market capitalism?

 

I love free market capitalism.  The stores may make money, but I can think of tons of places that would be better.  I would not kick them out if I were the landlord - but as a resident I can sure wish that something that normal folks went to would go in.

 

My evict them statement was more just puffing - I would never tell someone what to do with their own property.  But I can also wish for something that did not suck...I drive by the stores on 19th frequently, and they are always empty.  I really am not sure how they make money b/c they are always empty.  Rent must be dirt cheap.

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This is a laughable claim.  Have you ever been to, say, Rice Village?

 

Apples and oranges.  Rice Village has about 10x the retail sq footage.  A few mall shops mixed in with majority boutique/non-mall retail and restaurants is not the kind of thing that Marksmu is advocating.  He wants to pluck a strip mall from Pearland and slam it on top of 19th street.  Also, 19th street has a small town vibe (art market, festivals, etc.) that is very much a major draw for the Heights.  It has been written up in a number of national publications over the years. 

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The number of people who bought in the Heights because of junk dealers on 19th Street is plus or minus zero. While I am sure that the above poster will claim that this is why he moved here, no one else did. But, hey, it sounded good to him.

 

 

By the way, the number of people who bought in the Heights because of what they read in "national publications" is likewise...zero.

Edited by RedScare
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The number of people who bought in the Heights because of junk dealers on 19th Street is plus or minus zero. While I am sure that the above poster will claim that this is why he moved here, no one else did. But, hey, it sounded good to him.

 

 

By the way, the number of people who bought in the Heights because of what they read in "national publications" is likewise...zero.

 

Yeah, you are right.  Everyone I meet who moved to the Heights thinks that 19th street is a dump and can't wait for it to be demoed and replaced with bars and clubs.  Only when that happens will the neighborhood ever take off. 

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Yeah, you are right.  Everyone I meet who moved to the Heights thinks that 19th street is a dump and can't wait for it to be demoed and replaced with bars and clubs.  Only when that happens will the neighborhood ever take off. 

 

Given your penchant for exaggeration, I'd posit that this number is no more than one or two. Besides, per usual, you are now moving the goalposts. Your initial statement was that everyone moved to the Heights BECAUSE of 19th Street. Now, after the ridiculousness of that statement was exposed, you changed it to people moving here thinking 19th Street is a dump.

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I'm so confused...not sure who wants what anymore.  My retail world is online except for impulse shopping when I travel and want something souvenirish along the tourist strip.  The days of Mayberry shopping are gone, Kaplan's was the last gasp.  Antique stores / art galleries are an exception but they seem to need critical mass for long-term success, like Magazine Street in New Orleans which lost all the Mayberry long ago to be replaced by........restaurants and bars.  Locals who like that sort of thing will go there for antiques and have a nice lunch while there.  But more and more Magazine Street is becoming an eat/drink destination first as the population gets younger.  So I think a successful business model for 19th would follow those lines.

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Yeah, you are right.  Everyone I meet who moved to the Heights thinks that 19th street is a dump and can't wait for it to be demoed and replaced with bars and clubs.  Only when that happens will the neighborhood ever take off. 

 

I for one *like* 19th street, which is why I want to see bars and venues go in to help diversify it. A commercial strip that shuts down at 7 is not sustainable, and the occasional evening artsy events just isnt enough.

 

Adding bars and clubs doesnt usually involve demoing anything; actually they tend to renovate and repurpose historic properties. 

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Given your penchant for exaggeration, I'd posit that this number is no more than one or two. Besides, per usual, you are now moving the goalposts. Your initial statement was that everyone moved to the Heights BECAUSE of 19th Street. Now, after the ridiculousness of that statement was exposed, you changed it to people moving here thinking 19th Street is a dump.

 

Here is all I said:

 

"If 19th street was full of stores from the mall, people wouldn't be beating each other over the head to buy a house in the Heights."

 

The obvious point was that if the retail section of 19th street looked like a chunk of Willobrook Mall, the neighborhood would not be getting the huge premium it is getting.  19th st. is a signature section of the Heights that is a major selling point for the neighborhood and sets it off from all other neighborhoods in Houston.  Of course, you cannot argue with that point so you change it in order to suit your needs, as usual.  That is the only thing that is ridiculous.

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Here is all I said:

 

"If 19th street was full of stores from the mall, people wouldn't be beating each other over the head to buy a house in the Heights."

 

The obvious point was that if the retail section of 19th street looked like a chunk of Willobrook Mall, the neighborhood would not be getting the huge premium it is getting......

 

Both of these statements are foolish.  Attributing all of the value and interest in the Heights to 19th Street is asinine.  19th Street was here and a lot nicer long before you and all the other value chasers ever arrived.

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Check out White Oak and Studewood on a Friday or Saturday night.  I cannot think of anyone who wants that for 19th street. 

 

More restaurants would be great.  Everyone wants that.  Another low key bar like Down House would be great.  But some club packing in tons of people to see Sparkle Pony would do nothing for 19th street after 6 pm except to leave a mess to clean up at 6 am the next day.  No one going to a big bar or live music club is going to shop for antiques, boutique clothing, or home decor on 19th street before they go to see Sparkle Pony.  When was the last time you heard someone say "dude, I am so wasted.  Let's go shop for a credenza!!!!".

 

The band is called Sparklehorse.  And its touring days are over.  

 

To address your underlying point, I would go to a show on 19th street, and if I saw a cool piece of furniture in the window of a shop nearby, I would absolutely stop in for a better look.  I'm not in my 20s anymore, but that just means I have money to spend on nice things, like furniture.

 

I think the mistake here is stereotyping people who enjoy live music.  Contrary to the assumption, we're not all drunk kids.

Edited by rental me this
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Here is all I said:

"If 19th street was full of stores from the mall, people wouldn't be beating each other over the head to buy a house in the Heights."

The obvious point was that if the retail section of 19th street looked like a chunk of Willobrook Mall, the neighborhood would not be getting the huge premium it is getting.

Then how is it that homes in Afton Oaks also command huge premiums despite the presence of despicable chain stores in the Highland Village? I hear they even have a corporate coffee chain there. Gasp!

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Ok, so I was bored on a long call and I tried to make a list of the stores on 19th using a map search, starting at Yale and ending at Ashland. There are at least 7 stores selling trinkets, 6 thrift stores, and 4 antique stores. I could be off, but that is at least a rough estimate. The vast majority close at 5 or 6pm on weekdays. The lone standouts are Studio Fitness, which closes at 9pm on weekdays, and Shade, which closes at 10 or 10:30 depending on the night. 

 

 

Trinket stores: 7

Elegant notions - jewelry and trinkets

Casa Ramirez - trinkets

Occasions - trinkets

Erica DelGaedo - trinkets, close at 6pm

Dramatika Custom Framing, cards, chachkies, close at 6pm

Coda - trinkets 

Grace Hart & Co. 

 

Thrift stores/clothing: 6

Sand Dollar - thrift store

Retropolis - thrift store

Jubilee - thrift store, close at 6pm

Thread - close at 5pm

Replay - thrift store

Langford Market - womens clothes

 

Food/Lounge: 5

Juice in the Sky - juices and smoothies  

Heights Cigar Lounge

Shade restaurant

Cricket's Creamery & Caffe - close at 6pm

Carter & Cooley Company Deli - close at 3:30pm

 

Antiques and Furniture: 4

Bliss on 19th - random home decor (candles, etc.)

Chippendale Antiques

Aon Antiques

Eclectic Home - home decor, close at 6pm

 

Record store/Studio: 2

226 Recordings - full service recording studio

Vinal Edge Records - record shop, open until 7pm

 

Art gallery: 2

18 Hands Gallery - ceramic art gallery

Gallery M Squared - art gallery, close at 6pm

 

Services: 7

BBVA Compass - bank

Southern Dental

Studio Fitness - gym, close at 9pm

Edward Jones 

Venus Hair

Ping Pokka Dot - party facility for girls

Boot and Shoe Repair

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by barracuda
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Vinal Edge Records - record shop, open until 7pm

 

Vinal Edge doesn't always close at 7. Sometimes they have special events, usually with a live band, that go on until 9-ish. As a matter of fact, there's going to be a book release party there this Friday from 7-9 with several punk bands:

 

http://www.pmpress.org/content/calendar_event.php?eid=20130426101912283

 

Granted, I don't expect the number of people reading this who are actually interested in the history of the Houston punk scene to be greater than you could count on one hand with fingers left over, but I thought it was worth mentioning nevertheless. 

 

I've been saying for years that the Heights is inevitably destined to wind up just like West U, and 19th St. like the Rice Village. It's just a matter of time. Kaldi Cafe being replaced by Shade was an early indicator.

 

That doesn't mean I find that prospect anything less than appalling. I used to frequent the Village before Chuggers became the Gingerman, Poor Man's Country Club was the local option for BBQ instead of Goode Company, and Dan Patrick was still running a sports bar near the intersection of Kirby and Rice. I've known one of the key developers in the area for a number of years, and although I'm sure he'd disagree with me, the development in the Village made a lot of money for a lot of people but didn't make it "better" than it used to be, just different.

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My point about the village has nothing to do with how many SF of retail and all about the fact that shopping centers rich enough to have mall chain stores (Rice Village, Highland Village, River Oaks) are surrounded by some of the richest residential real estate in the city. The idea that that kind of retail development would be bad for home values is astonishingly ludicrous.

Edited by JJxvi
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JJ, the fact that he had absolutely no support for such a wild statement should clue you in to its validity. Not to mention all of us Heights residents posting that we seldom, if ever, even visit 19th Street in its current state. If so many of us never visit it, could it really have any effect on buying preference? Of course not. Hence, the moving of the goalposts by the poster to suggest that we all want huge niteclubs to go in there.

 

This claim  that the junk dealers on 19th are some huge draw is just more of that wish by a few Heights residents that everyone and everything in the Heights should look and act like 1920 for the imagination of those few residents. 

Edited by RedScare
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Then how is it that homes in Afton Oaks also command huge premiums despite the presence of despicable chain stores in the Highland Village? I hear they even have a corporate coffee chain there. Gasp!

 

You know, I heard they have an Apple store there? You know where else there's an Apple store? The mall, yeah, that's right, in a mall! I could barely believe it myself! What's next Banana Republic??? What's that you say? There is a Banana Republic in HV and a Victoria's Secret??? Oh. My. God. Next thing you're going to tell me they have a Sbarro and a Great American Cookies, I can't handle this any longer, sell the house and cancel our membership to the country club, we're moving to the Heights where at least they have 19th street!

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Oh. My. God. Next thing you're going to tell me they have a Sbarro and a Great American Cookies, I can't handle this any longer, sell the house and cancel our membership to the country club, we're moving to the Heights where at least they have 19th street!

I guess the tipping point is when you have more than one store. Sellout. We the elite want you to eek along for years barely getting by, all the while making sure you do not carry a product that consumers would demand so much that you would be required to open a second, or gasp, third location. Because once you get bigger than what we elite feel is best, your product and brand is hopelessly compromised and doomed for sneer and lowered-bi-focal stink-eye.

Besides....

TonightweDineinSBARRO.jpg

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The band is called Sparklehorse.  And its touring days are over.  

 

To address your underlying point, I would go to a show on 19th street, and if I saw a cool piece of furniture in the window of a shop nearby, I would absolutely stop in for a better look.  I'm not in my 20s anymore, but that just means I have money to spend on nice things, like furniture.

 

I think the mistake here is stereotyping people who enjoy live music.  Contrary to the assumption, we're not all drunk kids.

 

Sparke Pony is from the show Portlandia.  It was a fictitious indie band on the show and was a play on Sparklehorse.  Fred Armisen and Carrie Brownstein were indie rockers (Trench Mouth and Sleater-Kinney, respectively) before SNL and Portlandia. 

 

And I am not making a stereotype.  I am simply describing consumer behavior.  When people go to shows, they go out to eat, head over to the show and go to a bar afterwards.  You may be interested in adding shopping for home decor on your list when you go to see the Sparkelhorse reunion tour, but you are very much in the minority.

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Then how is it that homes in Afton Oaks also command huge premiums despite the presence of despicable chain stores in the Highland Village? I hear they even have a corporate coffee chain there. Gasp!

 

Bad comparison.  Afton Oaks has larger lots, bigger houses and is more like a suburban subdivision with curbed and guttered streets throughout.  Better comparison is Eastwood.  Identical housing stock, same distance from downtown, if not closer, and same economic downfall after the original inhabitants moved out.  The Heights came back because it was able to keep 19th street in good condition and full of interesting retail.  Eastwood completely lost its original retail developments and is light years behind the Heights in property values and gentrification.

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It's the lack of curb/gutter streets that keep the heights appreciating! And here I mistakingly thought that curb/gutter was a good thing. I must retreat to the burbs now...

Heirloom/vintage drainage no doubt. Some of us are just a little early on realizing how superior these were back in the day. Waiting on the rest of folks to catch up...

Got to run, my blacksmith is almost finished with my 4-wagon wheel alignment.

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Went into Cricket's the other day, and it's been sold to a group including Scott Tycer from Kraftsmen.  I talked to the new owner/manager and talked for awhile.  He said they were looking into a bigger kitchen, more food options , and possibly staying open later.

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My point about the village has nothing to do with how many SF of retail and all about the fact that shopping centers rich enough to have mall chain stores (Rice Village, Highland Village, River Oaks) are surrounded by some of the richest residential real estate in the city. The idea that that kind of retail development would be bad for home values is astonishingly ludicrous.

 

Never said it would be bad.  My point is that 19th street is a better neighborhood amenity than a strip full of stores from the mall and much better than a bunch of bars and clubs.  And 19th st is what everyone identifies with the Heights.  They do not say it is a "small town in a big city" because many of the streets have open ditch drainage.

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The Heights came back because it was able to keep 19th street in good condition and full of interesting retail. Eastwood completely lost its original retail developments and is light years behind the Heights in property values and gentrification.

I think it is more about being in the "right" quadrant of 610, more than "the magic mile" of 19th street. That and a good portion of the potential Eastwood expansion areas was converted or has always been commercial/Industrial, which means that nothing will change for decades.

The closet comparison to what 19th street should be is South Congress in Austin. The problem is that those that live near 19th might not want the noise and traffic issues associated with expanded growth and hours. I can see both sides of it.

While signature boulevards with quirky stores can be important they still need a significant anchor, often a major brand name to stimulate further development. The Penzy's store is an excellent example of a non-local mom & pop "fitting in" and drawing others in.

Edited by TGM
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Bad comparison.  Afton Oaks has larger lots, bigger houses and is more like a suburban subdivision with curbed and guttered streets throughout.  Better comparison is Eastwood.  Identical housing stock, same distance from downtown, if not closer, and same economic downfall after the original inhabitants moved out.  The Heights came back because it was able to keep 19th street in good condition and full of interesting retail.  Eastwood completely lost its original retail developments and is light years behind the Heights in property values and gentrification.

 

So you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

The industrial nature of the east end, from multiple highly used rail lines cutting through, a switching yard, a locomotive repair facility (taking up a lot of space), huge warehouses, the ship channel and weird glowing at night, to all the industrial stuff, no one went to the east end and said "hmmm, I really like what the east end offers, but the heights has that kitschy retail on 19th street".

 

No, they look at the railroad tracks, and the dairy plant, the coffee roaster, finally they see super happy fun land (kicked out of the heights) relocated over here, and they say "nope, not for me" and they run away to the safety of the heights and the west side of town.

 

I like it that way though.

Edited by samagon
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I probably used to serve you drinks in the Village, mk.     :)

 

Wouldn't be surprised. There were a lot fewer bars in the Village back in the day, and I had at least a passing familiarity with those that I wasn't already a regular at.  ;)

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Went into Cricket's the other day, and it's been sold to a group including Scott Tycer from Kraftsmen.  I talked to the new owner/manager and talked for awhile.  He said they were looking into a bigger kitchen, more food options , and possibly staying open later.

 

Was wondering if something had happened - noticed while walking by there the other night that all of the artwork that had been on the walls was gone. I was afraid they might be going out of business, but this is much better news. 

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Was wondering if something had happened - noticed while walking by there the other night that all of the artwork that had been on the walls was gone. I was afraid they might be going out of business, but this is much better news.

I stopped going there when they refused to do anything about the chronic panhandler who lives there.

My guess is that he is about to get a rude awakening from the new owners.

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So you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

The industrial nature of the east end, from multiple highly used rail lines cutting through, a switching yard, a locomotive repair facility (taking up a lot of space), huge warehouses, the ship channel and weird glowing at night, to all the industrial stuff, no one went to the east end and said "hmmm, I really like what the east end offers, but the heights has that kitschy retail on 19th street".

 

No, they look at the railroad tracks, and the dairy plant, the coffee roaster, finally they see super happy fun land (kicked out of the heights) relocated over here, and they say "nope, not for me" and they run away to the safety of the heights and the west side of town.

 

I like it that way though.

 

There is plenty of industry and trains in the Heights.  There is a chicken plant and two large warehouses on my side of the Heights.  There is also the Shepherd tote-the-note automile.  And we have major highways on three sides of the neighborhood. 

 

There are no big petrochem plants near Eastwood.  You cannot see any of them from Eastwood at night. 

 

The Heights was held together through the bad times and pushed in the direction of redevelopment by many of the artists who kept 19th street going through the years.  None of that happened in Eastwood.

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There is plenty of industry and trains in the Heights. There is a chicken plant and two large warehouses on my side of the Heights. There is also the Shepherd tote-the-note automile. And we have major highways on three sides of the neighborhood.

There are no big petrochem plants near Eastwood. You cannot see any of them from Eastwood at night.

The Heights was held together through the bad times and pushed in the direction of redevelopment by many of the artists who kept 19th street going through the years. None of that happened in Eastwood.

Apples and Oranges. The spatterings of industrial complexes in the Heights pales to that in the Eastend. Changes in industry over the years has impacted the Eastend more than industry changes in the Heights. But if you beg to differ on that view, I'll counter that the chicken plant had a greater impact in saving the Heights than the artist collectives on 19th.

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There is plenty of industry and trains in the Heights.  There is a chicken plant and two large warehouses on my side of the Heights.  There is also the Shepherd tote-the-note automile.  And we have major highways on three sides of the neighborhood. 

 

There are no big petrochem plants near Eastwood.  You cannot see any of them from Eastwood at night. 

 

The Heights was held together through the bad times and pushed in the direction of redevelopment by many of the artists who kept 19th street going through the years.  None of that happened in Eastwood.

 

that's news to me, where are the railroad tracks through the heights?

 

There was a track, but now it's a bike trail.

 

Meanwhile, there's 3 railroad tracks that are immediately bounding eastwood. just east of the lawndale/telephone/broadmoor intersection, just west of leeland/cullen intersection, and of course, the one that runs parallel to harrisburg.

 

None of these tracks are designated as 'quiet zones' so you can sit on your porch at 3 am and listen to the trains.

 

There is a 'superblock' sized parcel that is nothing but railworks bounded by polk/york/milby/texas.

 

 

your argument is silly. oh, give this a read:

 

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/East-End-shopping-center-evolves-with-its-environs-4507457.php

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that's news to me, where are the railroad tracks through the heights?

 

There was a track, but now it's a bike trail.

 

Meanwhile, there's 3 railroad tracks that are immediately bounding eastwood. just east of the lawndale/telephone/broadmoor intersection, just west of leeland/cullen intersection, and of course, the one that runs parallel to harrisburg.

 

None of these tracks are designated as 'quiet zones' so you can sit on your porch at 3 am and listen to the trains.

 

There is a 'superblock' sized parcel that is nothing but railworks bounded by polk/york/milby/texas.

 

 

your argument is silly. oh, give this a read:

 

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/East-End-shopping-center-evolves-with-its-environs-4507457.php

 

The Heights is bounded by railroad tracks to the north and south.  I can hear the trains up north and outside of the quiet zone in the south at 3 am.  There is a rail yard just next to the TX Jester bridge.  Everything between White Oak Bayou and the bike trail is warehouse/industrial. The First Ward is just on the other side of I-10 and is almost all industrial.  Eastwood has seen industry expand while the Heights saw it contract.  But that is because the neighborhood kept areas like 19th street, which attracted redevelopment.  I am not saying that 19th st is the only reason the Heights redeveloped or that everyone came to the Heights because of 19th st.  I am saying that it is a major factor in the redevelopment of the Heights and a major reason that the area is seen as desireable and worth the high premium.  According to people on his board, 19th st. is some sort of liability that people tolerate when they move to the neighborhood.  That is completely off the wall wrong. 

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If you replaced your old windows with new energy effecient insulated windows you probably wouldn't hear those trains anymore...

 

 

Red maybe you'll know this better than me... (i've only been around for 7 years), but wasn't white linen nights started because 19th street was on the verge of drying up and dying (despite the turnaround the neighborhood was making).  WLN is my favorite heights event... because everything on 19th (as well as other streets) stays open late.

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There is plenty of industry and trains in the Heights.  There is a chicken plant and two large warehouses on my side of the Heights.  There is also the Shepherd tote-the-note automile.  And we have major highways on three sides of the neighborhood. 

 

There are no big petrochem plants near Eastwood.  You cannot see any of them from Eastwood at night. 

 

The Heights was held together through the bad times and pushed in the direction of redevelopment by many of the artists who kept 19th street going through the years.  None of that happened in Eastwood.

 

Without addressing the veracity of your statement, I will just say that even if 19th street and its eclectic thrift stores was the binding that held the heights together through the rough times (and I am not conceding that it did) the Heights is now significantly gentrified to the point that we no longer need these stores and old fashioned binding.

 

I am not advocating that we go out to the mall and see if we cant get us a cell phone stores, another GNC, or a sbarros, but I am advocating stores that dont suck.  Nearly every place on 19th sucks, and is useless for most day to day people.  Sure, they are serving a niche, but that niche population has mostly moved on, and whats left probably wont be able to afford their taxes in the next few years.... Now the Heights is now full of normal people who actually want places that they can goto  more than once a year. 

 

Im not saying bars, Im not saying clubs, Im saying restaurants - maybe even chef driven - a couple of patios a wine bar maybe - Heck, I don't know but we sure as heck don't need what is there currently.  The only thing worth going to on 19th is Collinas and Thai Spice, Penzys, Menchis and...maybe a bank....everything else is dead to 90% of the Heights population.  Look at the success of Menchi's if you are looking for an example of what the majority of the population of the Heights wants.  Drive by Menchis at any open hour of the day and I bet 10:1 that it has three times more customers than any thrift or other heights store.

Edited by Marksmu
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The Heights is bounded by railroad tracks to the north and south.  I can hear the trains up north and outside of the quiet zone in the south at 3 am.  There is a rail yard just next to the TX Jester bridge.  Everything between White Oak Bayou and the bike trail is warehouse/industrial. The First Ward is just on the other side of I-10 and is almost all industrial.  Eastwood has seen industry expand while the Heights saw it contract.  But that is because the neighborhood kept areas like 19th street, which attracted redevelopment.  I am not saying that 19th st is the only reason the Heights redeveloped or that everyone came to the Heights because of 19th st.  I am saying that it is a major factor in the redevelopment of the Heights and a major reason that the area is seen as desireable and worth the high premium.  According to people on his board, 19th st. is some sort of liability that people tolerate when they move to the neighborhood.  That is completely off the wall wrong. 

 

You still have no idea what you're talking about regarding Eastwood.

 

Regarding the 19th street retail....

 

"the retail on 19th street is the cultural epicenter of the resurgence of the heights" - said no one ever

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Red maybe you'll know this better than me... (i've only been around for 7 years), but wasn't white linen nights started because 19th street was on the verge of drying up and dying (despite the turnaround the neighborhood was making).  WLN is my favorite heights event... because everything on 19th (as well as other streets) stays open late.

 

I don't think so, WLN is a good idea but I think it started because all the Katrina refugees brought the idea over from NO.  Seems like the Heights Street Festival was just as big, though my memory may be playing tricks.  Totally different crowd, of course.  The "old" part of 19th seems to have been relatively stable over the years with most of the growth coming from the "new" part west of Ashland.

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If you replaced your old windows with new energy effecient insulated windows you probably wouldn't hear those trains anymore...

 

 

Red maybe you'll know this better than me... (i've only been around for 7 years), but wasn't white linen nights started because 19th street was on the verge of drying up and dying (despite the turnaround the neighborhood was making).  WLN is my favorite heights event... because everything on 19th (as well as other streets) stays open late.

 

White Linen Nights has always been a Heights-wide celebration that had 19th st. as a focal point.  Katrina relocated artists from New Orleans worked with Heights artists to recreate the New Orleans event in the Heights.  19th st has seen some turnover but has always had good success in leasing.  It has never been anywhere close to "drying up and dying".  It has just improved steadily over the years and is almost 100% leased. 

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White Linen Nights has always been a Heights-wide celebration that had 19th st. as a focal point.  Katrina relocated artists from New Orleans worked with Heights artists to recreate the New Orleans event in the Heights.  19th st has seen some turnover but has always had good success in leasing.  It has never been anywhere close to "drying up and dying".  It has just improved steadily over the years and is almost 100% leased. 

 

Weird... I thought the whole purpose of the 19th street businesses supporting WLN was to help drive their businesses which need more people.  You are so out of touch with reality it is amazing.  If what 19th street was was so successful, then why did its most iconic store (Harrold's) have to close down?  I know a few places on 19th street are only open because the owners don't care about money.  One person I spoke with several years ago (who's shop has since closed) told me they had actually operated at a loss for the past year, but kept the store open because it gave them something to do.  I have a feeling some of the other places are in a similar situation, eventually they will be priced out.  I'm curious about the new "Green Painter" store.  Their other store (New Living) does pretty well over near Rice Village...  I think what we are seeing on 19th street is just a prolonged death of several stores and the eventual phasing in of new desirable stores/restaurants/bars/etc.  Torchy's replacing Harrolds is a great example.

 

I guess your still new here,   there has been a ton of turnover on 19th, and at least 3-4 places had going out of business signs up in their windows for the longest time.  (they eventually did go out of business). 

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Weird... I thought the whole purpose of the 19th street businesses supporting WLN was to help drive their businesses which need more people.  You are so out of touch with reality it is amazing.  If what 19th street was was so successful, then why did its most iconic store (Harrold's) have to close down?  I know a few places on 19th street are only open because the owners don't care about money.  One person I spoke with several years ago (who's shop has since closed) told me they had actually operated at a loss for the past year, but kept the store open because it gave them something to do.  I have a feeling some of the other places are in a similar situation, eventually they will be priced out.  I'm curious about the new "Green Painter" store.  Their other store (New Living) does pretty well over near Rice Village...  I think what we are seeing on 19th street is just a prolonged death of several stores and the eventual phasing in of new desirable stores/restaurants/bars/etc.  Torchy's replacing Harrolds is a great example.

 

I guess your still new here,   there has been a ton of turnover on 19th, and at least 3-4 places had going out of business signs up in their windows for the longest time.  (they eventually did go out of business). 

 

WLN was marketed to 19th st businesses as a way to promote their businesses, but was not started by 19th street businesses as a way to keep 19th st from "drying up and dying out".  19th street's success is that it has been able to quickly replace outgoing businesses with new ones.  The polar opposite of drying up and dying out.  If 19th was drying up and dying out, it would have been emptied out, sold and demoed.  Instead, it is attracting more and more interest.  If all those awful nick nack shops were such a pox on the neighborhood, you would not see 19th street just one shop short of being fully leased. 

 

Harold's closed because Harold Weisenthal retired and merged the store with Norton Ditto.  Harold's son managed the store, but eventually left.  The Norton Ditto folks had no interest in investing in the store to update it and make it competitive and closed it.  Harold's simply had run its course. 

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 The polar opposite of drying up and dying out.  If 19th was drying up and dying out, it would have been emptied out, sold and demoed.

 

 

Norton Ditto folks had no interest in investing in the store to update it and make it competitive and closed it.  Harold's simply had run its course.

 

 As the Heights turns younger...if in fact it is turning younger...those junk stores will fade away. If the Heights fills up with retiring Baby Boomers, those old farts will keep the junk stores open. Pretty simple, really.

 

On another tangent, as if to prove that restauranteurs don't like dry areas, Ruds is opening up nearby. Not quite 19th Street, but they can get a liquor license here.

 

 http://blog.chron.com/29-95/2013/05/rudyards-british-pub-owner-opening-up-bar-music-venue-in-the-heights/?cmpid=hpfsln

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 As the Heights turns younger...if in fact it is turning younger...those junk stores will fade away. If the Heights fills up with retiring Baby Boomers, those old farts will keep the junk stores open. Pretty simple, really.

 

On another tangent, as if to prove that restauranteurs don't like dry areas, Ruds is opening up nearby. Not quite 19th Street, but they can get a liquor license here.

 

 http://blog.chron.com/29-95/2013/05/rudyards-british-pub-owner-opening-up-bar-music-venue-in-the-heights/?cmpid=hpfsln

In the old KMart building? Competition for the Corkscrew.

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Look at the success of Menchi's if you are looking for an example of what the majority of the population of the Heights wants. Drive by Menchis at any open hour of the day and I bet 10:1 that it has three times more customers than any thrift or other heights store.

According to Mint.com Menchis received $450 of our targeted Heights expenditures. Can't seem to locate any money spent at the bohemian trinket shop. Penzy's took in around $300 for gifts and whatnot. Again, can't seem to locate any for musty antique stores. Rather odd... Then again these businesses do stay open later to accommodate demand, rather than shutting down at 420.

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According to Mint.com Menchis received $450 of our targeted Heights expenditures. Can't seem to locate any money spent at the bohemian trinket shop. Penzy's took in around $300 for gifts and whatnot. Again, can't seem to locate any for musty antique stores. Rather odd... Then again these businesses do stay open later to accommodate demand, rather than shutting down at 420.

There is no question that Menchi's is decimating all the silly niche shops. The bigger question is how everyone on this thread sees the exact same thing except for one person who apparently only is capable of seeing what they want to see.

19th IS in a steady state of decline when compared to the constantly improving demographics of the area. Success for these stores would mean improving sales, not stagnant just enough to get by sales.

Stores like Menchi's will take over, it's not a matter of if, but rather just when.

Edited by Marksmu
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19th Street is a relic of another time. This is why some residents like it. They can take friends or relatives to look at it from time to time. It is a museum, not a retail area. As such, it has no real use in its current state. Progress will eventually steamroll the old 19th Street in favor of something useful. Its supporters will be left to lament its decline and fall, likely blaming other Heights residents and "big box" stores for its demise.

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  • The title was changed to Braun Buys Heights Baptist On 20th St. To Demolish For Retail

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