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Armed Robbery On Norhill And Woodland St.


fwki

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Time to get a crime thread going again....posted on Nextdoor last night:


"Just to let you know (sadly) - my husband and I were walking home around 10:30 from Fitzgerald's tonight and two african american males with hoodies, and guns, held us up - at Norhill and Woodland.

Luckily they only stole my husband's wallet. But two men on foot, who said, "delicate flower, I will shoot you," is a very scary thing - I screamed, ran, and shouted back as loudly as I could - but my very Zen husband was calm enough to save both of our lives and gave the men what they wanted.

After dialing 911, the police came within a few minutes. Another couple (walking a few minutes behind us) saw the two men run to their car and drive away, eastward towards Michaux and turn left, towards Pecore. They also gave their statement.

Everyone - please be very safe - we did not even see them! They took us completely by surprise, scared us to death, held us both at gun point and demanded money or wallets, etc. And Norhill is very well lit!"

 

This is the first ambush robbery I remember in a long while this deep in the gentrified Heights.  This pair will strike again, maybe a car-exit ambush in a driveway.....be alert and to those who can, lock and load.

 

 

 

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More details:

..."Just thought I should provide a few more details about the incident for anyone interested. First of all, they were in a car waiting for us - according to the couple that was walking home down Euclid. ... View more They ran up behind us, both had revolvers, hoodies and bandanas though my guy pulled his down when he spoke to me. At first they didn't say anything and just pointed the guns at us. They were young, 18-25, 5 foot 2 or 5-5, I'm 5' 7 and they were shorter than me. My husband thought the men were Hispanic, mainly because he actually spoke to one more than I did. I was screaming and yelling because I thought a neighbor might hear us though no one did - even though I could see a tv on in someone's window. My husband asked his robber to keep his ID from his wallet and the guy said yes, then Holger handed over his wallet. I was sort of freaking out and shouting at my guy, telling him I didn't have a wallet, etc. That was when he said he would shoot me.

What's weird is we both had our iPhones on us and I had cash, ID, credit cards etc in my pockets but my guy didn't come near enough to me - maybe because I was screaming at him so much - I don't know?

My husband was so calm that it looked almost like a friendly interaction. He also thought maybe it was a gang initiation type of thing because they seemed so inexperienced and young. And they didn't pat Holger down for his phone, etc.

Anyway, then they ran back to their car and drove off (small red sedan, broken tail light). They were parked at the corner house on Euclid and Norhill Esplanade (north side of the street), facing studewood. It's dark and shady there.

I did get angry and run after them, which in retrospect was the wrong choice. We chose to walk to dinner and Fitzgeralds because it was a beautiful night, we are mindful of our fellow neighbors and frankly, parking is ridiculous over off of White Oak.

It was only 10:30 at night and there were other people out on Studewood - it just seemed so out of place.

Anyway, everyone be mindful of your surroundings and be safe! And thanks for all the emails and thoughts!"

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The wife reports they were African-American males. The husband thinks they were Hispanic little people. Maybe later, they can update it to report that they were Vietnamese gang-bangers in wheel chairs.

 

People who have been the victim of a violent crime are often unsure of the descriptions of suspects and/or vehicles.  It is very understandable and I don't think they should be criticized.  Fortunately they were not harmed.

 

With the exception of the arsons and that string of robberies a few years back, we are lucky that crime in our area is primarly non-violent property crime.  According to the HPD crime stats for March 2013, the beat that includes most of the Heights (2A30) had 3 robberies, 1 aggravated assault, and 116 non-violent property crimes.

 

Compare this to crime-ridden Sunnyside (14D20's beat) which had 1 murder, 16 robberies, 32 aggravated assaults, and 113 property crimes.

 

We should continue to look out for our neighbors and report all suspicious activity to the police.

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Sorry, but if you can't tell the difference between African-American males and short Hispanic males, then maybe you shouldn't give a racial description. Or, at the very least, consult with your husband and get your story straightened out before you send out an alert. 

 

Crime sucks and it's scary as all hell to get held up at gunpoint (I know this personally having had it happen to me 13 years ago) but racial profiling against young black men is a serious problem. 

 

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Sorry, but if you can't tell the difference between African-American males and short Hispanic males, then maybe you shouldn't give a racial description. Or, at the very least, consult with your husband and get your story straightened out before you send out an alert. 

 

Crime sucks and it's scary as all hell to get held up at gunpoint (I know this personally having had it happen to me 13 years ago) but racial profiling against young black men is a serious problem. 

 

Just out of curiosity, is this gentleman African-American or Hispanic?

 

David+Ortiz+Boston+Red+Sox+Photo+Day+TK-

 

 

I might also point out that "racial profiling" is a problem for those of hispanic origin as well. Though many people are unaware of this problem, false identification in criminal cases is a huge problem. Most case where DNA has exonerated innocent men have been cases where eyewitnesses were wrong in their identification. The eyewitnesses were not intentionally trying to misidentify African-Americans. They were simply mistaken. It is a sadly common mistake.

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Sorry, but if you can't tell the difference between African-American males and short Hispanic males, then maybe you shouldn't give a racial description. Or, at the very least, consult with your husband and get your story straightened out before you send out an alert. 

 

Crime sucks and it's scary as all hell to get held up at gunpoint (I know this personally having had it happen to me 13 years ago) but racial profiling against young black men is a serious problem. 

 

don't you just love know-it-all thread jackers?

 

Sorry to hear you guys got robbed....glad it wasn't any worse

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Sorry, but if you can't tell the difference between African-American males and short Hispanic males, then maybe you shouldn't give a racial description. Or, at the very least, consult with your husband and get your story straightened out before you send out an alert.

 

You think witnesses should consult each other to give their eyewitness account? Terrible idea. Eyewitness testimony often has flaws. That doesn't mean it's worthless. Also, Hispanic is not a racial description.

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Sorry, but if you can't tell the difference between African-American males and short Hispanic males, then maybe you shouldn't give a racial description. Or, at the very least, consult with your husband and get your story straightened out before you send out an alert.

Crime sucks and it's scary as all hell to get held up at gunpoint (I know this personally having had it happen to me 13 years ago) but racial profiling against young black men is a serious problem.

I am as liberal as can be, but this just isn't racial profiling. First, racial profiling is the act of law enforcement taking action on the basis of racial bias. Second, even if you are just claiming that this woman has a racial bias in attempting to describe the criminals, she openly admits that she may have been wrong about the description. Third, a basic skin color description plus a description of the vehicle can be an important tool for law enforcement and neighbors who see a similar vehicle acting suspiciously in the area. Whether the suspects are south Asian or Mexican or African American isn't something that reasonable people expect someone with a gun pointed at the face to be able to sort out. But light skinned versus dark skinned is easy to discern under the stress of the moment and is important information to share.

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I hate to admit it, but I agree with s3mh on this point. Citizens do not racially profile. The government does. Further, as my picture of Big Papi illustrates, the woman could see a dark skinned individual and believe him to be African-American, while the man could hear him speak and believe him to be of hispanic origin. Of course, this description points up the problems with eyewitness identifications. They can be incorrect.

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So only law enforcement can racially profile someone?

 

I bet Trayvon Martin's parents would beg to differ. 

 

And no, I don't think witnesses should consult each other before making statements to the police. However, I do think there'd be time to get their stories straight before sending the alert out to the neighborhood board. 

 

Too many vigilantes who shoot first and ask questions later to make such mistakes...especially when the very first post in this thread ended with this gem; "and to those who can; lock and load."

 

 

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So only law enforcement can racially profile someone?

 

I bet Trayvon Martin's parents would beg to differ. 

 

And no, I don't think witnesses should consult each other before making statements to the police. However, I do think there'd be time to get their stories straight before sending the alert out to the neighborhood board. 

 

Too many vigilantes who shoot first and ask questions later to make such mistakes...especially when the very first post in this thread ended with this gem; "and to those who can; lock and load."

 

Is vigilantism an issue in The Heights?  Is there an armed citizen patrol walking the streets?  On the other hand, if someone pulls a gun on you or is breaking into your house then that's a situation where shooting first and asking questions later is prudent.

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So only law enforcement can racially profile someone?

 

I bet Trayvon Martin's parents would beg to differ. 

 

And no, I don't think witnesses should consult each other before making statements to the police. However, I do think there'd be time to get their stories straight before sending the alert out to the neighborhood board. 

 

Too many vigilantes who shoot first and ask questions later to make such mistakes...especially when the very first post in this thread ended with this gem; "and to those who can; lock and load."

 

Not only stop the donations but investigate that school for cheating standardized tests if this is a representative sampling.  Thankfully the initial post was made right after the incident to alert the rest of us.  I was out with my vehicle and got the alert on my phone, but often we are on foot coming from the local spots.  You'd have her wait so I could get nailed too, just so she doesn't offend your phony sensitivities.  And wtf does Trayvon Martin have to do with racial profiling?  Racism perhaps, but as any HISD grad would know, racial profiling is a systematic law enforcement tool.  And then to quote a neighbor who started a separate thread the next day?  You got hosed on the tuition.

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I'd be willing to bet that when I agreed with s3mh that racial profiling is a tool of law enforcement, Kinkaid rushed to Google in order to shut us up. Once there, he found that a better tack might be to simply make up a definition of his own and imply that it is correct.

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In the future during a mugging one should inquire with one's mugger as to what racial demographic they belong to as to avoid the crime of offending Kinkaid.

Example:

"Dear sir, might I request a favor from you after I hand over my wallet?"

"Well that all depends on the favor. If I deem it reasonable I might acquiesce to your wishes."

"Oh my good man, you are a gentlemen and a scholar!"

"Yes, yes, yes, spit it out, I've got to catch the 10pm showing of The Great Gatsby"

"Might I inquire what your ethnic background, or national origin is, as I do not wish to offend when I file my report."

"But of course, but I warn you my answer might cause the PC Patrol heads to explode"

"How is that?"

"I am African-American"

"I don't often argue with a man holding a gun, but you are clearly white my good man"

"Yes, but I am from Zimbabwe, which under your current system is factually correct"

"Sir, just how on earth am I supposed to file a report now?"

"Beats me, tell them you don't see color"

Edited by TGM
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In the future during a mugging one should inquire with one's mugger as to what racial demographic they belong to as to avoid the crime of offending Kinkaid.

Example:

"Dear sir, might I request a favor from you after I hand over my wallet?"

"Well that all depends on the favor. If I deem it reasonable I might acquiesce to your wishes."

"Oh my good man, you are a gentlemen and a scholar!"

"Yes, yes, yes, spit it out, I've got to catch the 10pm showing of The Great Gatsby"

"Might I inquire what your ethnic background, or national origin is, as I do not wish to offend when I file my report."

"But of course, but I warn you my answer might cause the PC Patrol heads to explode"

"How is that?"

"I am African-American"

"I don't often argue with a man holding a gun, but you are clearly white my good man"

"Yes, but I am from Zimbabwe, which under your current system is factually correct"

"Sir, just how on earth am I supposed to file a report now?"

"Beats me, tell them you don't see color"

Perhaps it would be quicker just to whip out your iPhone and ask for a photo.

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Perhaps it would be quicker just to whip out your iPhone and ask for a photo.

Good idea, because apparantly iPhones are no longer worthy of theft in Houston.

Heaven help the person who attempts this with a Galaxy S4.

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I am hearing that a similar incident occurred on Harvard and White Oak at 10 pm last night.  Two guys in hoodies came up behind a guy and held him up for his wallet.  Suspects may have been driving a Mercedes with after market hallogen lights (the look blueish).  HPD/Constables are on the look out. 

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Fake xenon bulbs in getaway car, use of revolvers, poetic, floral hold-up language......must resist...must resist...

In all seriousness, this is a dangerous situation and I hope these douchebags get caught before someone is injured. I'm good for a carton of American Spirits for the cellmate who whispers "delicate flower" into the ear of the tried, convicted, and sentenced robber.

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Not only stop the donations but investigate that school for cheating standardized tests if this is a representative sampling.  Thankfully the initial post was made right after the incident to alert the rest of us.  I was out with my vehicle and got the alert on my phone, but often we are on foot coming from the local spots.  You'd have her wait so I could get nailed too, just so she doesn't offend your phony sensitivities.  And wtf does Trayvon Martin have to do with racial profiling?  Racism perhaps, but as any HISD grad would know, racial profiling is a systematic law enforcement tool.  And then to quote a neighbor who started a separate thread the next day?  You got hosed on the tuition.

 

Sorry to hear you couldn't get in. 

 

If the initial post was to alert neighbors, then she should have just stuck to what she KNEW, that there were two shortish men in hoodies who robbed them at gunpoint. 

 

And are you really so unaware that minorities feel racially profiled by more than just law enforcement? When Cindy at Banana Republic follows you around the store to make sure you're not shop lifting just because you're black, Cindy is racially profiling. When an air marshall arrests you upon landing just because you're SE Asian and happen to be sitting next to Middle Eastern men who cause "suspicion" because they go to the restroom too many times, then you've been racially profiled. When you're a teenage kid in a hoodie walking home and a neighborhood nutjob kills you simply for being the wrong color in the wrong place, then yeah, you've been racially profiled. If you can't figure out what the Trayvon case and racial profiling have to do with each other, then I am not so sure you should be making fun of others for their lack of education.

 

Now, all let all you white guys and gals go back to lecturing others on racism and racial profiling so that you'll feel better that you're not racist.

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Now, all let all you white guys and gals go back to lecturing others on racism and racial profiling so that you'll feel better that you're not racist.

What do you mean by you white guys?

No need to lecture when I just attended one, Prof.

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When minorities, especially darker ones in hoodies, stop committing the lion share of all violent crimes, profiling will stop on its own.  But the sad reality is that a disproportionately high number of violent crime and murder is committed by minorities with a darker complexion.  If you believe people are racist for being aware of this fact, fine.  Personally, I do not care at all what you, or any other flaming liberal thinks.  Statistics are a valid means of catching more people.  If a person, no matter what color, looks out of place somewhere they get harassed by the HPD.  The HPD may not be polite, but if you are not up to no good, then you will be let go.

 

I was harassed by HPD for being white and out very early back during the Heights arsons.  They suspected it was a white guy setting those fires...I was pulled over by an overly aggressive rude HPD officer doing his job...he harassed me for upwards of 20 minutes.  I was annoyed, but life goes on. 

 

 

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When minorities, especially darker ones in hoodies, stop committing the lion share of all violent crimes, profiling will stop on its own.  But the sad reality is that a disproportionately high number of violent crime and murder is committed by minorities with a darker complexion.  If you believe people are racist for being aware of this fact, fine.  Personally, I do not care at all what you, or any other flaming liberal thinks.  Statistics are a valid means of catching more people.  If a person, no matter what color, looks out of place somewhere they get harassed by the HPD.  The HPD may not be polite, but if you are not up to no good, then you will be let go.

 

I was harassed by HPD for being white and out very early back during the Heights arsons.  They suspected it was a white guy setting those fires...I was pulled over by an overly aggressive rude HPD officer doing his job...he harassed me for upwards of 20 minutes.  I was annoyed, but life goes on. 

 

Sounds like you were detained without probable cause, which is illegal. If someone matches an actual description of a suspected criminal, fine, detain them and determine if they're the person, but there's no need to racial profile just on a general basis.

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Sounds like you were detained without probable cause, which is illegal. If someone matches an actual description of a suspected criminal, fine, detain them and determine if they're the person, but there's no need to racial profile just on a general basis.

 

I've had plenty of time to cool off since the incident.  I was stopped for about 23-25 minutes...It was an inconvenience, but nothing more.  It sucked b/c I left early for a reason, and that was all negated with the lengthy stop, but I don't believe the stop amounted to detainment.

 

Profiling is not a bad policy.  It catches criminals.  Racial, Religious, Crime Specific, etc.  If the person that is being looked for matches a description and there is any pretext for a stop, then its just going to happen.  The cop that pulled me found 2 different reasons to "stop" me (both trivial), but did not cite me for anything.  He just wanted to be a hero.

 

When crimes stop being committed by people who like alike, there will be no need for profiling - but frisking an 80 year old black granny at the airport, while you search for a 23 year middle eastern male is just stupid....it wastes everyone's time.

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... white devil.

 

You must be from Piney Point Village...

 

According to the 2010 census for Piney Point Village there were 3,125 people, 1,064 households and 945 families. 377 families had children under 18 in their household. Whites compromise 85.1% of the population, 11.0% are Asian, 4.5% Hispanic, and 1.7% African American.

 

And also home of The Kincaid School for the Color Blind.

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... white devil.

You must be from Piney Point Village...

Whites compromise 85.1% of the population, 11.0% are Asian, 4.5% Hispanic, and 1.7% African American.

The 11.0% Asians are probably married to white males, the 4.5% Hispanics are actually Spaniards, or Catalans, and the 1.7% African-Americans are actually old white refugee farmers that still talk about the good old days back in Rhodesia.

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Sounds like you were detained without probable cause, which is illegal. If someone matches an actual description of a suspected criminal, fine, detain them and determine if they're the person, but there's no need to racial profile just on a general basis.

 

I thought the police could detain you for up to 48 hours without arrest while they are reasonably investigating a crime, if they believe you are involved or have information. He seemed to match the description of a white guy burning down houses in the early morning. IANAL though, so correct me if I am wrong.

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Which is why everyone, even those who ride in the back of chaffeur-driven embassy limos should know their rights, and appropriate demeanor for situations such as these. My guess is the Constitutional scholar or holier than thou taxpayer approaches don't help matters.

I always found this video funny and disturbing at the same time.

http://youtu.be/eDJrQBwJpqk

Edited by TGM
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I thought the police could detain you for up to 48 hours without arrest while they are reasonably investigating a crime, if they believe you are involved or have information. He seemed to match the description of a white guy burning down houses in the early morning. IANAL though, so correct me if I am wrong.

 

With probable cause to believe you committed a crime, they can detain you. Matching a description may be enough for probable cause. What he described seemed to be matching a race, not matching a particular description, but it is moot as MarkSMU said the cop had other legitimate reasons to stop him (broken taillight or whatever).

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With probable cause to believe you committed a crime, they can detain you. Matching a description may be enough for probable cause. What he described seemed to be matching a race, not matching a particular description, but it is moot as MarkSMU said the cop had other legitimate reasons to stop him (broken taillight or whatever).

 

You may be detained by police based on reasonable suspicion, which is a lesser burden of proof than probable cause.  An officer acting on reasonable suspicion does not have to allege that you have have actually committed some crime.   If you are simply being detained, you need not answer any questions or provide any information.  If MarkSMU was driving around in the area at a very early hour and matched the description of the arson suspect, that would probably be sufficient reasonable suspicion to justify a detention (traffic stop).

 

Probable cause is the burden of proof required for an arrest.  If MarkMSU had no front license plate, failed to signal a turn, or committed some other traffic violation, then that is probable cause for the officer to make an arrest.  Most traffic stops are based on probable cause, and they may result in a citation (arrest and release with promise to appear in court) or a trip to jail (custodial arrest).  The Supreme Court has ruled that if an officer feels that a person's actions are suspicious, the officer may follow the person until the person commits some sort of traffic violation thereby giving probable cause for a traffic stop.  This is called a "pretext" stop.

 

Even though a traffic stop is really just a detention, which only requires that an officer have reasonable suspicion, most officers will wait until they observe some sort of violation so that they have met the probable cause burden.  It's a little bit easier to explain probable cause than it is reasonable suspicion. 

 

Another reason they will usually wait to develop probable cause it that if you are stopped for some violation / probable cause, then you are technically "lawfully arrested" and you must provide your name, date of birth, and residence address.

 

Red, does that sound about right?

Edited by heights
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That sounds pretty good. The part about MarkSMU driving around at an early hour matching the description of the suspect being eligible for a detention stop is a bit shaky. If he REALLY fit the description, this may be OK. However, a generalized description of a "white male", or even a "white male in a pickup" is not really specific enough to justify a stop. A safer practice, as you noted, is to simply wait for the person to commit a traffic violation before stopping them.

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Any updates on our pearl-handled revolver packing, Mercedes driving robbers?

I have a feeling this is going to end up with a duel in the Spaghetti Western parking lot.

Edited by TGM
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  • The title was changed to Armed Robbery On Norhill And Woodland St.

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