Dallas Midtown

[RedScare]

Well, there is that.

[Slick Vik]

Don't forget about the endless acres of run down, decaying apartments, dying malls and ugly strip centers not to mention the pawn shops, check cashing places and dollar stores that stretch every inch of land between the Tollway to Preston and beyond. There is a very good reason that this area has attracted so many of those kinds of businesses. It's called 'Supply and Demand'. Currently there isn't much demand for 4 star restaurants near Valley View Mall. Now THAT'S what I call 'honest'.

Those "hip" areas you speak of that are close by will be a drain to any traction that Midtown Dallas could ever establish. There is not much reason for Midtown Dallas to exist. There are a lot of reasons that this project would be very cool. But it certainly seems like there would be many more things working against it.

The Galleria area of Dallas reminds me of the Greenspoint area in Houston. "Isn't bad" you say? I say "bad" is in the eye of the beholder. Just like Greenspoint, the Dallas Galleria area has its good points too.

Respectfully, I don't believe you can be honest about Dallas. Anyone who says they prefer the Dallas Galleria to the Houston Galleria is either bias or not playing with a full deck. I will give you credit that you ARE playing with a full deck. So that only leaves the question about your 'honesty'.

Ok now you're being an extremist. Dallas galleria area you're comparing to greens point? I've spent many weeks working at the Dallas galleria and have walked around the valley view area day and night and never once felt in danger. This is like comparing Brownsville Brooklyn to the woodlands. And I do prefer the Dallas galleria for the reasons I stayed above: it's cleaner, less crowded, and I like the set up.

[Slick Vik]

The problem with trains is that if they go to places where no one wants to go they end up empty. Dallas took the cheap route and built their light rail down old rail ROWs. But no one lives or works near those old ROWs. So, they ended up with a very expensive empty train.

Pretty useless.

You're right nobody lives in garland, Richardson, Plano, Addison, Rowlett, etc.

And do you know where much of the money that was used to build DART came from? From houston funds that were never used, thanks bob Lanier.

[august948]

It's nicer, cleaner, and less crowded than Houston Galleria. 

Wait, are we talking about the Dallas Galleria or the DART trains?

I shake my head at the defensive attitude of Houstonians when Dallas is doing well in anything. 

We should congratulate DFW on it's extensive highway system. They've got parts or all of 8 named Interstates vs only 4 for Houston and 6 US highways vs 3 for Houston. I haven't found the stats for miles of highways, but the DFW area is so crisscrossed with them that I suspect they've got us beat in total miles as well. We need to build more to catch up. Edited May 6, 2013 by august948

[Mister X]

Ok now you're being an extremist. Dallas galleria area you're comparing to greens point? I've spent many weeks working at the Dallas galleria and have walked around the valley view area day and night and never once felt in danger. This is like comparing Brownsville Brooklyn to the woodlands. And I do prefer the Dallas galleria for the reasons I stayed above: it's cleaner, less crowded, and I like the set up.

 

Not at all. I call 'em as I see 'em. The area immediately surrounding the Dallas Galleria is blighted the same way the Greenspoint area is blighted. Truth hurts.

 

They are VERY comparable. Both made a big splash in their day. Both are surrounded by trashy apartments.  And most people don't walk around the streets that surround them after dark too often. I'm glad you feel safe walking around Valley View. I'm certain there are people out their who feel safe walking around Greenspoint too. More power to y'all.

 

Also, no one is saying you can't prefer the Dallas Galleria to the Houston Galleria either. It's just not a very commonly shared opinion in either Houston or Dallas. Washed up has been reality t.v. stars still have some fans out their too I suppose. It's no crime to embrace mediocrity, knock yourself out. 

Edited May 6, 2013 by Mister X

[Slick Vik]

Valley view is not a dangerous area like greens point. Please stop with the bias.

[scarface]

The Dallas Galleria's redo is nicer than Houston's current Galleria, hands down, but Galleria Dallas is much smaller. I prefer Houston's Galleria by far still because it gives off a vibe as a sense of place. It's immediate surroundings are also far more vibrant and energetic. Restaurants, condos/apartments, the up and coming BLVD place, and West Ave developments add far more to the area. Dallas's Galleria just seems disjointed from everything, almost like an afterthought in the city. Houston's is woven better into the urban fabric.

 

I really think the City of Houston cheated itself by delaying/defeating the University Line and Uptown Lines. Those stupid BRT plans seem like it should've gone on the eastside instead of a premier destination in the city.

 

EDIT:  I just thought of something funny.... Galleria Dallas and Houston's Galleria kind of in a way, represent the comparisons of the cities themselves. Dallas is slightly nicer and glitzier of the two, but smaller and more sterile. Houston's Galleria is nice, but bigger, funkier, and more energetic/chaotic, much kind of like the way the cities are. LOL

[dfwcre8tive]

The Dallas Galleria is transitioning to more of a middle-level mall and siphoning remaining stores from Valley View Center (which, in leasable area, was a larger mall). Saks Fifth Avenue will soon be replaced with a flagship Belk, for example. Most of the high-end retailers have moved to NorthPark Center (the largest in the region) or boutiques in smaller retail centers (like Highland Park Village). The consolidation of retail over the past few years has left Valley View Center obsolete.

[livincinco]

I'm not biased, I can see things from a third person perspective because I've lived other places besides Houston and Dallas. They are basically as similar as two cities can get, and seeing petty arguments about the cities is rather hilarious, and sad.

There really aren't a lot of cases where those kind of rivalries don't exist when you have two major cities that are that close to each other. Look at LA-SF, Portland/Seattle, NY/Boston, etc.

A lot of the ways that Houston and Dallas are alike though are the same ways that the other growth cities in the sunbelt are. I grew up in Los Angeles and there's a lot about Houston that reminds me of LA of that time period.

[Houston19514]

I'm not biased, I can see things from a third person perspective because I've lived other places besides Houston and Dallas. They are basically as similar as two cities can get, and seeing petty arguments about the cities is rather hilarious, and sad.

 

I don't understand the constant putting down of Houston.   It's childish.. . .

 

;-)

[Subdude]

To reiterate to the usual suspects:

 

Flame wars aren't tolerated here.

HAIF isn't in the business of running city v city flame wars either. 

 

These are the forum rules - you're going to have to abide by them.

 

 

[livincinco]

Darn - I guess I'll have to call off that Navasota/Montgomery cage match that was about to start.

[Mister X]

I agree with DFW Cre8tive, the Dallas Galleria is becoming the new Valley View mall. And I believe it will share the same future.

[dfwcre8tive]

I agree with DFW Cre8tive, the Dallas Galleria is becoming the new Valley View mall. And I believe it will share the same future.

 

Which is part of the reason for the area plan, I think. There are good older neighborhoods in this area but Valley View's decline has caused the immediate area to spiral downhill. Having a plan in place to encourage smart development and reinvestment may be one way to stabilize the area and protect the Galleria from a similar fate. 

[Mister X]

Plans are great. No one is impugning the plan. It's only the logistics that are in question. Valley View mall and the Galleria are practically across the street from each other. Everything that worked against Valley View is working against the Galleria. An awful lot has to happen to save the Galleria from the same fate as Valley View. I'm not saying that it isn't possible that the Galleria can alter it's destiny and I certainly think it is encouraging that official efforts are being made to change the area for the better. It's a very big and admirable goal, but as you said it will take decades if it happens at all. A lot can go wrong (or right) during the coarse of decades.

 

Greenspoint mall in Houston could come back into relevance in decades too. Anything's possible.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Mister X

[lockmat]

I have a question. Does Dallas have a transient/homeless problem in their downtown/midtown areas like Houston?

[Houston19514]

^  Yes.

[Mister X]

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2012/12/dallas_is_trying_to_get_rid_of.php

 

 

 

 

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/downtown-dallas/headlines/20110708-homeless-man-upset-at-being-called-a-bum-by-council-member-hunt-on-twitter.ece?ssimg=219613

 

 

 

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2009/mar/09/it-time-tent-city-dallas/

 

 

 

http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2011/oct/03/some-dallas-homeless-choose-streets-over-shelters/

 

 

 

http://www.ebonydallas.com/local-article/170

 

 

http://cityhallblog.dallasnews.com/2010/07/advocates-for-housing-for-home.html/

 

 

Edited May 7, 2013 by Mister X

[dfwcre8tive]

I have a question. Does Dallas have a transient/homeless problem in their downtown/midtown areas like Houston?

 

Yes. The Bridge Homeless Recovery Center (which sees 1,200 people per day), permanent supportive housing programs and anti-panhandling ordinances have made a difference, but it's still an issue.  

[strickn]

I hope it will help this conversation to point out that TheGalleria is 5.5 miles from downtown.  When Gerald Hines went out to Dallas, Ray Nasher already had a mall 5.5 miles from downtown, so he built in an analogous position on the next loop out.

 

CityCentre / once-Town & Country is 11.5 miles from downtown, with Memorial City Mall a mile closer.  The also razed and rebuilt Prestonwood Mall was  12 miles from downtown, with Valley View two miles closer.

[strickn]

North Texas' suburban retrofit continues to progress behind the scenes.

 

http://nctapa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Dallas-Midtown-Plan.pdf has a series of pages that show the patchwork of existing zoning overlays and a thoughtful form-based code to supersede it.  It is encouraging to see small-scale plans undergird the large-scale one.

[D F W]

Dallas Midtown First Phase?

http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2014/11/developer-says-dallas-midtown-will-begin-taking-shape-on-valley-view-center-site-in-2015.html/

Edited November 14, 2014 by D F W

[Sic'EmBears]

FINALLY: $300M FIRST PHASE OF DALLAS MIDTOWN TO START

Tonie Auer

January 13, 2016

 

 

The wait is over: construction on the long-anticipated redevelopment of the old Valley View Mall should kick off by summer.

He’s working with the City of Dallas and councilman Lee Kleinman to finalize the street infrastructure plan; all of the pieces were approved at the end of 2015. The councilman has also been working with the Dallas Midtown Park Foundation to secure the 20-acre Midtown Commons Park Three projects will start simultaneously: a new AMC theater on top of 80k SF of office that sits atop retail, a hotel on top of retail and a new grocery store on top of retail. And, we’ll finally say goodbye to the old mall with its demolition probably between July and October. He expects the first retail and the office space to open at the end of 2017 or beginning of 2018.

Scott says construction plans are being drawn now. Omniplan assisted with master planning and Dallas Midtown is working with WDG, 5G and NY-based Streetworks on the three projects. GCs haven't been selected yet; he expects final pricing to come in around April. He’s hoping to get the ink dried so he can announce the hotel and grocery flag at our State of the Market event.

 

Full Article

[Sic'EmBears]

Construction underway on Scott Beck's $4B Dallas Midtown project

Candace Carlisle

January 28, 2016

 

 

Dallas developer Scott Beck has begun environmental remediation and pre-demolition work on the $4 billion Dallas Midtown mixed-use development in North Dallas that will make way for a new corporate magnet and entertainment destination.

 

Beck's Dallas-based Beck Ventures is overseeing the redevelopment immediately surrounding Valley View Center, which is about 17 blocks within a larger 40-block, 430-acre mixed-use development.

Valley View Center is expected to be taken down brick-by-brick versus an implosion to salvage materials that could ultimately be used in the new development on the site in North Dallas. Beck Ventures also is in the process of creating a tree farm by pruning back the roots of certain trees to ready them for being moved, he said.

 

The pre-demolition work began in earnest in December. By May 1, Beck said he expects to begin demolition on Valley View Center and have the entire site cleared and ready for vertical construction by the end of the year.

Our retail partner Shop Cos. is working on bringing all kinds of interesting retail and restaurant groups to the project.

We plan to be open by December 2017 with some opening the first quarter of 2018.

 

Full Article

[Sic'EmBears]

Edit

Edited February 10, 2016 by Sic'EmBears

[slfunk]

Not Dead Yet. Valley View Center Is Still Open for Business. (Really.) http://centraltrack.com/Culture/8556/Not-Dead-Yet/Valley-View-Center-Is-Still-Open-for-Business-Really

The center is marked for demolition.  The developer is looking at a staging plan, I'm sure as most due.  You have an AMC there, and I think that is just about the only thing that still brings in people to that area for nighttime other than the adjacent mall (Galleria).

 

FYI - This area around the Galleria has seen a bit of a shift from the hot bed of activity in the 80's / 90's.  Developers / companies have been concentrating on areas to develop where the young talent is.  These two areas or concentrated in the uptown/downtown area and Frisco / Plano's 5 billion dollar mile where Toyota, Liberty Mutual, Raytheon, Fed ex, etc. are building big new campuses along with private developers expanding multifamily, hotels and retail offers.  This is not to say these are the only big development areas in the metro, but these are the top 2.  The activity up at 121 and the tollway is pretty insane.  They are basically building an area similar to Dallas's uptown all at once at this intersection.

 

In regards to Midtown....  Developers are seeing an area that has more less been in holding pattern for sometime since all the investment previously and now those developers see that the center of the metro's population is somewhere around 635 / 75 or 635/tollway.  The housing in this area is of an older stock mostly with some spots of newer apartments.  They are working to change this, and the speed of gaining interest affects the financing.....  Ironic that Galleria area and Addison where red hot in development in the late 90's (mostly Addison along the Tollway / Beltline).

 

Bottom line - Its an ambitious project and one I hope to continue to develop.   The Galleria area has needed a makeover for a while now to stay competitive with other submarkets.

Edited February 14, 2016 by slfunk

[texan41]

The Dallas galleria area kind of reminds me of Houston. I don't know what it is... Just the whole design of it reminds me of Houston.

[slfunk]

The center is marked for demolition.  The developer is looking at a staging plan, I'm sure as most due.  You have an AMC there, and I think that is just about the only thing that still brings in people to that area for nighttime other than the adjacent mall (Galleria). Not sure what the point of the article is trying to make, but the retail tenants in there are tenants like local mom & pop's / hair salons / dance studio etc. with a large portion of the mall vacant or blocked off.  They basically have a place where they put up storefronts at a low price until the mall closes.  Many of the old stores like the Disney store have not been remodeled for the current tenant.  So you can still make out the old staple tenants when the mall was going strong. Its not the most uplifting place to go.

 

FYI - This area around the Galleria has seen a bit of a shift from the hot bed of activity in the 80's / 90's.  Developers / companies have been concentrating on areas to develop where the young talent is.  These two areas or concentrated in the uptown/downtown area and Frisco / Plano's 5 billion dollar mile where Toyota, Liberty Mutual, Raytheon, Fed ex, etc. are building big new campuses along with private developers expanding multifamily, hotels and retail offers.  This is not to say these are the only big development areas in the metro, but these are the top 2.  The activity up at 121 and the tollway is pretty insane.  They are basically building an area similar to Dallas's uptown all at once at this intersection.

 

In regards to Midtown....  Developers are seeing an area that has more less been in holding pattern for sometime since all the investment previously and now those developers see that the center of the metro's population is somewhere around 635 / 75 or 635/tollway.  The housing in this area is of an older stock mostly with some spots of newer apartments.  They are working to change this, and the speed of gaining interest affects the financing.....  Ironic that Galleria area and Addison where red hot in development in the late 90's (mostly Addison along the Tollway / Beltline).

 

Bottom line - Its an ambitious project and one I hope to continue to develop.   The Galleria area has needed a makeover for a while now to stay competitive with other submarkets.

 

Edited February 14, 2016 by slfunk

[slfunk]

^Wow! Much different impression then I had last October when I was there for a movie.  I would not go back except to see a movie and to be frank its sketchy at best.  The parking lots are dark dark dark at night.  Some parking areas are not lit anymore and the mall......... to each there own :0)

 

 Sears nearest locations are at Collin Creek, Town East and Richardson Sq Mall.  That location works well for them and I'm sure they will stay for as long as they can.  That is what JCP did until they opened their store on NW Highway.

Edited February 14, 2016 by slfunk

[cloud713]

The Dallas galleria area kind of reminds me of Houston. I don't know what it is... Just the whole design of it reminds me of Houston.

Agreed, it's always reminded me a lot of Greenspoint.