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One Market Square: Proposed Office Tower for Block 43

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why are you teasing us in such a profound manner urbannizer?  you know that we are not that strong....why?

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why are you teasing us in such a profound manner urbannizer? you know that we are not that strong....why?

It's like drunk dialing an old flame at this point.

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d4985cc2a2c05772d38c1ef446140486.jpg

Can't help but notice this last rendering with different designs including one that appears to be downsized (upper right). May be because of the perspective though...

What are the chances a downsized (or cheaper design in case of far left) project could get off the ground?

Edited by tigereye
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52a6ab52b533f9b08752387799ff8ded.jpg

One more thing: Bottom right rendering shows the pedestal for Residences at Market Sq - IIRC the first time this project has referenced it's neighbor going up next door.

Is this a new rendering? (likewise for revisions rendering) Im still under the impression this dead...

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Absent strong evidence of this actually going forward, would this topic be more appropriate for a "what if" board? I would also like to dust off discussions of the the old Bank of the Southwest tower in the "Going Up" section, but I just do not think that is in the cards. Of course, I would be delighted to hear indications that this still might actually be going up.

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One more thing: Bottom right rendering shows the pedestal for Residences at Market Sq - IIRC the first time this project has referenced it's neighbor going up next door.

Is this a new rendering? (likewise for revisions rendering) Im still under the impression this dead...

 

I think that's the Chron garage, not the Residences pedestal.  

 

And SOMEONE'S got to do April Fool's.  :lol:

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I think that's the Chron garage, not the Residences pedestal.  

 

And SOMEONE'S got to do April Fool's.  :lol:

 

That's definitely not the Chronicle's garage, which is directly behind this site and would not be rendered from this perspective as International Tower would completely block it from view at Market Square. 

 

Also, note the setback from top of garage to the residential tower above ....no question this is Residences at Mkt Sq rendered.

 

It may be nothing and this may still be dead - but this also seems to suggest that this may be a new rendering. Why would a dead project have updated renderings from Gensler? 

post-709-0-72314200-1427990954.jpg

Edited by tigereye
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Absent strong evidence of this actually going forward, would this topic be more appropriate for a "what if" board? I would also like to dust off discussions of the the old Bank of the Southwest tower in the "Going Up" section, but I just do not think that is in the cards. Of course, I would be delighted to hear indications that this still might actually be going up.

 

 

I only posted the renderings because a few of them are new (to us).  The thread will stay in "Going Up" as this will either come back to life at some point or something else will be proposed for the block.

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I only posted the renderings because a few of them are new (to us).  The thread will stay in "Going Up" as this will either come back to life at some point or something else will be proposed for the block.

 

I agree that it should remain in "Going Up", but I think that there is room for improvement in this forum in how projects are labeled or tagged. Whether it's a separate tag on the side of the thread or expressed in the title some indicators on what stage a project is in (of course to the best of our knowledge) would help a great deal to the curious and general forum lurker. Here are some tags that I would recommend either developed as separate highly visible tags or put in the title of the thread and adjusted as the project evolves.

 

Possible Tags:

 

*Rumored* - since we have so many dedicated HAIFers who like to go above and beyond to find new projects, spy various notice of variance requests around town, or have insider info on potential development I think this should be one of the first tags used on any going up thread as a way to differentiate between a project from word of mouth to one actually announced and on it's way into development.

 

*Announced*  - used as the initial tag for any new thread where a project is first announced either by a architecture firm, developer, real estate firm, city/state/national gov., official organizations, or the press

 

*In Development* - Another term that might fit here is "Design Development", but "In Development" helps keep the entire design process in a more general setting since we aren't privy to information as far as if they are in Schematic Design, or Design Development, or simply planning. This tag would be used after we start getting more info on what the building will be and start seeing site plans, renderings, etc...

 

*Under Construction* - this tag would be used the moment we start seeing soil samples, bulldozers/boots on the ground, or a ground breaking ceremony taking place. This tag means that the project is under construction and is on it's way to being completed.

 

*On Hold* - one of the tags listed here that no one wants to see, but happens because it's the nature of the business. This tag would be used once we have official word a project is on hold or there has been a significant amount of time since original development cycle.

 

*Canceled* - the dreaded tag we hope never graces any thread, Canceled (I also thought about the tag simply saying "Dead" but that might be a little harsh). This tag is for when the project is officially canceled via word from developers, architects, or the press themselves or if someone has reliable info about a projects impending cancellation, but like the announcement tag this one should be limited only if it's from an official source.

 

*Completed* - Yaaa the project is finally completed. Congrats, now it can proudly wear this tag with honor.

 

In conclusion I hope that something like this would be something to seriously consider for this forum as it could help clear up a lot of confusion. The majority of people who look into these threads are Lay-people and I know this could help out their understanding a lot about what stage each project is on, but even us who are in the industry would certainly appreciate this kind of organization as well. Just some thoughts especially when you recently posting a lot of these renderings that are, while cool to see, do add a little bit to the confusion on whether a project is actually happening, dead, or in development. It's adds more context to those images posted.

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Man, that's a beautiful building. Wish we would see it rise one day.

Shhh, don't say anything too nice about this building or Luminare will jump down your neck for liking it

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It's so depressing looking at these renderings lol... I mean think about how massive an impact this would have on our skyline... so gorgeous!

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That's definitely not the Chronicle's garage, which is directly behind this site and would not be rendered from this perspective as International Tower would completely block it from view at Market Square. 

 

Also, note the setback from top of garage to the residential tower above ....no question this is Residences at Mkt Sq rendered.

 

It may be nothing and this may still be dead - but this also seems to suggest that this may be a new rendering. Why would a dead project have updated renderings from Gensler? 

 

My mistake, you're right about the Hines project now being in there - I got too hung up on the idea of looking at the bottom right. 

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It's so depressing looking at these renderings lol... I mean think about how massive an impact this would have on our skyline... so gorgeous!

 

I wouldn't worry. We are in Houston.. we'll get plenty more skyscrapers in the decades to come, ones far more impressive than this tower. This city just has so much potential, I think that's why I come to this forum so often... to see the ever growing changes coming our way. Sure, there will be slowdowns as there always have been, but this city just grows more and more impressive all the time.

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honestly this little slow down will be a blessing in disguise. I think we were building a little too quickly and I think this gives the city time to catch up a little bit. There are of course going to be some casualties (namely this tower as well as others), but it just means there will be better ones to follow.

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It's so depressing looking at these renderings lol... I mean think about how massive an impact this would have on our skyline... so gorgeous!

 

 

I wouldn't worry. We are in Houston.. we'll get plenty more skyscrapers in the decades to come, ones far more impressive than this tower. This city just has so much potential, I think that's why I come to this forum so often... to see the ever growing changes coming our way. Sure, there will be slowdowns as there always have been, but this city just grows more and more impressive all the time.

 

I would agree with Triton - DT Houston will be fine. Prime example: 10 years ago, Block 69 was once earmarked for a residential highrise called "Shamrock Tower" by Tracy Suttles. The project eventually stalled and died.

 

Going up here now: Hines' 609 Main - Id say we're all happy with the end result. 

Edited by tigereye
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I hate to be a killjoy... this tower may go up *somewhere* in downtown at some point, but I have on very good authority this won't be happening on this particular lot. 

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Will it become a future addition of Market Rectangle Park? Heh.. I'd like to see a hotel but would be happy with something like the Smith St Whole Foods/residential midrise.

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I hate to be a killjoy... this tower may go up *somewhere* in downtown at some point, but I have on very good authority this won't be happening on this particular lot.

Welcome to the Forum, thank you for the pictures, and care to spill any beans of what might go on this lot if anything?

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If it goes on another lot in downtown then that means it's a lot owned by Linbeck, right?

Do you know why they would build it on another lot as opposed to this one? Gonna build on a cheaper block for bigger returns?

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I'll predict it's going residential. Too much new development here for the developers to miss out. Factor in Mkt Sq and all the bars & restaurants. Once MST & Hines are complete, this could become a trendy area. Residential here just makes too much sense, especially if you can't secure a tenant for a planned commercial space.

Edited by tigereye
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Thank God it won't go on this lot... we need residential and retail here to complete the Market Square nightlife.

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If it goes on another lot in downtown then that means it's a lot owned by Linbeck, right?

Do you know why they would build it on another lot as opposed to this one? Gonna build on a cheaper block for bigger returns?

 

Oh no, that was speculation. They have a concept developed, its pretty, I just hope it won't die and they'll find somewhere to put it. I can damn near guarantee it won't be going on the other lot you refer to either.

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Welcome to the Forum, thank you for the pictures, and care to spill any beans of what might go on this lot if anything?

Thank you, you're welcome, and for the near future its going to still be parking to the best of my knowledge. 

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This might be a good site for a mixed use tower wouldn't it?

Right next a park that all three types of patrons would appreciate and benefit from and its on the cusp of the business offices, too. The hotel could be a business/casual one. What brands are those?

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I'd like to see something along the lines of a Ritz Carlton Hotel & Residences. A hotel/residential/boutique office tower like Lockmat said would be amazing though, with that HEB or Whole Foods in the base. Throw in Houstons first automated parking garage for icing on the cake. Heh

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I'd like to see something along the lines of a Ritz Carlton Hotel & Residences. A hotel/residential/boutique office tower like Lockmat said would be amazing though, with that HEB or Whole Foods in the base. Throw in Houstons first automated parking garage for icing on the cake. Heh

What an odd combination. Like ordering sword fish with chocolate sauce. Doesn't make sense.

Ritz Carlton Hotel, grocery store, and an automatic garage. What kind of automatic garage? Like the big cylinder ones in Japan and Germany? Or the vending machines with the belt kind of one?

I agree about seeing something residential/hotel or mixed use. This block, along with the chronicle building block, and the theater district (bayou place), redo could potentially yield some awesome towers and reshape the area.

Fingers crossed.

Edited by Montrose1100
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What an odd combination. Like ordering sword fish with chocolate sauce. Doesn't make sense.

Ritz Carlton Hotel, grocery store, and an automatic garage. What kind of automatic garage? Like the big cylinder ones in Japan and Germany? Or the vending machines with the belt kind of one?

I agree about seeing something residential/hotel or mixed use. This block, along with the chronicle building block, and the theater district (bayou place), redo could potentially yield some awesome towers and reshape the area.

Fingers crossed.

huh? i agree, that would be a really odd combination. sorry if my post was confusing.. but i meant a standalone Ritz & Residences tower (with appropriate GFR), OR a mixed use grocer/automated garage/boutique office/hotel/residential tower combination... the latter obviously being a very far fetched urbanist fantasy. lol.

im not sure the difference in the two automated garages you described besides the shape. but yeah, the car elevators that move up and down between floors and then side to side once it gets to the right floor and inserts your car into a slip.

Edited by cloud713

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huh? i agree, that would be a really odd combination. sorry if my post was confusing.. but i meant a standalone Ritz & Residences tower (with appropriate GFR), OR a mixed use grocer/automated garage/boutique office/hotel/residential tower combination... the latter obviously being a very far fetched urbanist fantasy. lol.

im not sure the difference in the two automated garages you described besides the shape. but yeah, the car elevators that move up and down between floors and then side to side once it gets to the right floor and inserts your car into a slip.

You should feel sorry ;)

I get it now. But I don't get wanting to put a big garage outside of the parking district on prime real estate. I also think since this is borderline skyline district it should be something spectacular since it will have a strong western view presence. Haven't seen any grand additions since Enron (unless you count the peaking top of BG Group Place every so often).

A big grocery store would be nice, but hopefully done right, with some parking above and then whatever else, office/hotel/residential above.

Could you imagine a ritz Carlton above an HEB? Kinda funny.

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It wouldn't be a "big garage", but a streamlined garage above the grocer/below the boutique offices, suited for the number of people of the particular development, with a few extra spots to spare for Market Square visitors. You have to remember automated garages park about twice as many cars per area as regular garages, so if anything it would just reduce the overall size of whatever garage component is sure to be needed to support this development.

Lol nah, a Ritz with an HEB as GFR? That would be.. interesting..

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I think the area is not awesome but not ritzy enough for a ritzy. In my opinion Man street square on Dallas is a better location for the Ritz. Or on Dallas near Discovery Green.

The area is also not slow paced enough for an HEB. I think the HEB would be better suited in SE downtown. Market square is more of a multi use urban quarter. While the SE part is more laid back residential.

As for the garage, nix that idea totally, and while you are at it get rid of the other two at Marker square.

Ritz, HEB or garages doesn't really fit in to what I think of Market Square. It seems old school, well suited to pedestrian per suits and the potential to be be very fast paced.

A nice brick building with bars, restaurants, and smaller Gen purpose stores would fit best in my opinion

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I think the area is not awesome but not ritzy enough for a ritzy. In my opinion Man street square on Dallas is a better location for the Ritz. Or on Dallas near Discovery Green.

The area is also not slow paced enough for an HEB. I think the HEB would be better suited in SE downtown. Market square is more of a multi use urban quarter. While the SE part is more laid back residential.

As for the garage, nix that idea totally, and while you are at it get rid of the other two at Marker square.

Ritz, HEB or garages doesn't really fit in to what I think of Market Square. It seems old school, well suited to pedestrian per suits and the potential to be be very fast paced.

A nice brick building with bars, restaurants, and smaller Gen purpose stores would fit best in my opinion

You have a very unique perception on things..

Market Square Park is one of the best areas of downtown, but you'd rather a Ritz go in the middle of hobo central at the corner of Main/Dallas? Besides, there are way too many hotels in that area. I'd rather that half block go residential. I like a bit of diversity, not segregation.

Market Square is quickly turning into an urban/pedestrian paradise. Over 800 new units are under construction fronting the park. Seems like an obvious location choice for an urban format grocer.

Yeah.. Screw the residents of Market Square Tower. And whatever office tenant wants to take over the Chron building. Office workers don't need parking. While we're at it lets take out the garage in the base of the Residences at Market Square. They don't need parking either.

Heh. Obviously parking is a necessity in Houston. Why you are so against the most urban/small format version of a parking garage being implemented into the bottom of a mixed use development I have no idea.. Better that than the mega standalone conventional garages around downtown.

Sounds like you want Market Square to stay in the 1800's..

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In Boston, the new Ritz-Carlton towers rose in the Combat Zone. A place where hookers and hustlers worked their blocks next to porn theaters and tittle bars.

 

The two towers house a condo portion, a hotel portion, a huge Sports Club LA gym, and a multi-plex movie theatre. 

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In Boston, the new Ritz-Carlton towers rose in the Combat Zone. A place where hookers and hustlers worked their blocks next to porn theaters and tittle bars.

The two towers house a condo portion, a hotel portion, a huge Sports Club LA gym, and a multi-plex movie theatre.

Multimillion dollar question : how's that working out for them?

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Really, really well. Sold out fairly quickly at very high prices, although surpassed by the newish Mandarin Oriental Hotel and Condos in the Back Bay.

 

However, the area has completely transformed and the copy-cat towers have followed, including a W-Hotel and condos and a Loews Hotel and Condos. 

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You have a very unique perception on things..

Market Square Park is one of the best areas of downtown, but you'd rather a Ritz go in the middle of hobo central at the corner of Main/Dallas? Besides, there are way too many hotels in that area. I'd rather that half block go residential. I like a bit of diversity, not segregation.

Market Square is quickly turning into an urban/pedestrian paradise. Over 800 new units are under construction fronting the park. Seems like an obvious location choice for an urban format grocer.

Yeah.. Screw the residents of Market Square Tower. And whatever office tenant wants to take over the Chron building. Office workers don't need parking. While we're at it lets take out the garage in the base of the Residences at Market Square. They don't need parking either.

Heh. Obviously parking is a necessity in Houston. Why you are so against the most urban/small format version of a parking garage being implemented into the bottom of a mixed use development I have no idea.. Better that than the mega standalone conventional garages around downtown.

Sounds like you want Market Square to stay in the 1800's..

I agree that market square is one of the best, but again I don't see it as being Ritzy. And I want a modern version of the 1800s. The vibe with modern buildings. A building can be modern without it being ritzy.

And no, I feel a large grocer right of the square does not fit in in my opinion. Even in an urban format, It just doesn't fit my image of the historic district. An HEB is better suited down in that new residential district around leeland and Austin.

As for parking, yes I was gonna suggest taking out the ones in the residences at market square too, but I got lazy.

I don't have anything against parking. I want the city to build loads of them in different clusters on the peripheral borders of downtown. It just that it's my fantasy image of a nice pedestrian area and the garages do not fit in in that fantasy.

Parking is a necessity but it doesn't have to be on every block downtown. Parking will always be by far the more common means of transport into downtown but as more people chose to live in and around downtown, parking will be less of a big deal.

As the downtown work force increase, i do not believe there will a proportional increase in the need for spots.

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I agree that market square is one of the best, but again I don't see it as being Ritzy. And I want a modern version of the 1800s. The vibe with modern buildings. A building can be modern without it being ritzy.

And no, I feel a large grocer right of the square does not fit in in my opinion. Even in an urban format, It just doesn't fit my image of the historic district. An HEB is better suited down in that new residential district around leeland and Austin.

As for parking, yes I was gonna suggest taking out the ones in the residences at market square too, but I got lazy.

I don't have anything against parking. I want the city to build loads of them in different clusters on the peripheral borders of downtown. It just that it's my fantasy image of a nice pedestrian area and the garages do not fit in in that fantasy.

Parking is a necessity but it doesn't have to be on every block downtown. Parking will always be by far the more common means of transport into downtown but as more people chose to live in and around downtown, parking will be less of a big deal.

As the downtown work force increase, i do not believe there will a proportional increase in the need for spots.

While I agree about Market Square being one of, if not the most lively area Downtown.

But... It is becoming a new residential area. The Lancaster and few other nice....er hotels are in the area. While I'd prefer more residents, a swanky hotel would also do some good.

Edited by Montrose1100
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I agree that market square is one of the best, but again I don't see it as being Ritzy. And I want a modern version of the 1800s. The vibe with modern buildings. A building can be modern without it being ritzy.

And no, I feel a large grocer right of the square does not fit in in my opinion. Even in an urban format, It just doesn't fit my image of the historic district. An HEB is better suited down in that new residential district around leeland and Austin.

As for parking, yes I was gonna suggest taking out the ones in the residences at market square too, but I got lazy.

I don't have anything against parking. I want the city to build loads of them in different clusters on the peripheral borders of downtown. It just that it's my fantasy image of a nice pedestrian area and the garages do not fit in in that fantasy.

Parking is a necessity but it doesn't have to be on every block downtown. Parking will always be by far the more common means of transport into downtown but as more people chose to live in and around downtown, parking will be less of a big deal.

As the downtown work force increase, i do not believe there will a proportional increase in the need for spots.

id say any chance of retaining that 1800s feel went out the window as soon as a 400 footer and a 500 footer sprouted up fronting the park. i agree we should try to keep some of the original vibe/cohesive feel, probably by means of heavier brick usage on the lower floors, of course with store fronts.

ahh.. i see the problem. you think the International Tower block is in the "Historic District".. well its not. yeah a suburban format HEB might do okay in about 10 years over near that area you are talking about. I was talking more about changes that could happen sooner rather than later.

so long as we continue having a downtown workforce population of 150,000+ people, and a downtown residential population of 5-10,000 people (the pop will probably be getting close to 10,000 people when all 5,000 residential units in the DLI are built) you're going to have a major need to parking garages. assuming all the downtown residents work in downtown, you're looking at 14 of every 15 workers needing to take some form of transportation into the office from outside of downtown, and unfortunately our mass transit system isn't good enough to do that for everyone, so we will need to continue building garages with our new developments. but hopefully we can start building them smarter and start getting automated garages to reduce the overall size of them.

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Naw, I don't want the 1800 feel. I said a modern version. The old market square had tightly packed handsome buildings, very walkable, friendly business owners. A welcoming area. There is no reason why a modern version can't be built. What I would prefer not to see is walls of featureless concrete.

So Market square is not considered in the historic district? I do apologize, I thought it was.

Why would there be a greater need for parking as each new construction creates more parking than was originally there?

Our mass transit system is constantly in transition and major changes are coming in august. It will adjust accordingly.

But my point remains. I don't think we need garages on the blocks fronting market square. I'm buying all of Haif a round if that one attached to the 40 story market square residential ever gets blown up and replaced with something more aesthetically pleasing

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I may be misguided as well, I thought Market Square is in the Historic District.

 

The podium/ garage on the Hines job aesthetically fits. I mean, it had to go through the historic planning commish for approval to keep from the generic ugly precast garages we usually see (this is why I am confused as to how this isn't in a historic district). What's wrong with a garage if it fits in? 

 

As for the current lot - would something like a Whole Foods or Central Market not be a good fit? They'd be utilized by the surrounding area at lunch and if they (WF) upped their bar area knowing where its going, why not? 

 

 

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Market Square is of course in the historic district, but if you look at the historic district map this particular block is a little notch removed from the district, hence the International Tower design that would of bastardized market square. There are no guidelines (not historic at least, afaik) restricting the development for this block.

Imagine if the Whole Foods had the mini brewery like the one on Post Oak, with a separate entrance fronting the park. I assume it has a little bar/hangout area with it. If it didn't take up too much space or they could put it up in a loft area above the store with a balcony overlooking Market Square it would be awesome.

Edited by cloud713
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^ Interesting on the notch. 

 

And exactly what I was thinking about the one on Post Oak! Just tailor the store to the area's vibe & needs - they've done it before, as witnessed other places.

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