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Lumen: Apartments At 2400 West Dallas St.


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  • 1 year later...
  • 1 month later...

It is interesting all of the stalled projects in this area (which is my neighborhood): This one, Sunrise MF @ W Clay & Montrose, Regent Square (since 2005!), development planned for site next to Fed (MF/hotel/office).  There is also the site at Allen Parkway & Montrose that seems will never get developed.  I guess the RE is so expensive no one wants to make a mistake.  All the while other projects get started/completed all of the time in what I believe are less interesting locations...

 

Thank goodness Weingarten was able to get moving on their new development at River Oaks SC and Stages was able to break ground on their new theater...

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  • 10 months later...

So weird...i was just thinking about this plot of land this morning on the way to work...i remember driving by when that fire was raging! wow! can't believe it has taken this long to do something with such prime real estate. 

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  • The title was changed to 2400 West Dallas (Formerly Axis Apartments - Burned Down)
  • 3 weeks later...

The HHA has been vague about a specific development site along "West Dallas" (likely for good reason) but the map shown in the latest press release looks to be at this location. The unit count is similar to the one that burned. Again...no idea if this is the site. Anyone know? This looks to be a site they are hoping to add as part of their new, mixed-income approach.

http://www.housingforhouston.com/media/56372/august 2019 board report.pdf (p61-64)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PTjtKsqvkGyv7rgOatspN7VwHzmqgUlF/view

 

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I agree. The red dot on the map on page 2 (located in the first 'o' in 'Houston') aligns exactly with that site.
While a greater number of affordable housing units are desperately needed in Houston, building them in an area where luxury high-rises are springing up like mushrooms seems like an odd choice. 
Surely a less expensive site could be found that's conveniently located (while not in a slum or industrial area), and the money saved applied to the construction of more units.

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11 hours ago, dbigtex56 said:

While a greater number of affordable housing units are desperately needed in Houston, building them in an area where luxury high-rises are springing up like mushrooms seems like an odd choice. 

 

I'm sure all of those luxury highrises need maids, maintenance, valet, lawn crew, etc. Projects like this put the workforce near the work. And if highrise people don't want their maid living in the same neighborhood, they should just clean their own home.

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1 hour ago, phillip_white said:

 

I'm sure all of those luxury highrises need maids, maintenance, valet, lawn crew, etc. Projects like this put the workforce near the work. And if highrise people don't want their maid living in the same neighborhood, they should just clean their own home.

Can you give an example of that here because they can never seem to explain how exactly "local" workforce people are going to be given those units versus people who work in other sides of town. All for putting things in high opportunity zones but claiming it is for local maids and gardeners is a farce. 

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On 5/1/2020 at 9:35 AM, iah77 said:

Can you give an example of that here because they can never seem to explain how exactly "local" workforce people are going to be given those units versus people who work in other sides of town. All for putting things in high opportunity zones but claiming it is for local maids and gardeners is a farce. 

 

I can't give you an example of a project that restricts housing to only those that work nearby (it's probably illegal). But you can imagine that someone who spend an hour or more on the bus to get to work would jump at the opportunity to live closer without paying a rental rate that is a significant portion of their income.

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58 minutes ago, phillip_white said:

 

I can't give you an example of a project that restricts housing to only those that work nearby (it's probably illegal). But you can imagine that someone who spend an hour or more on the bus to get to work would jump at the opportunity to live closer without paying a rental rate that is a significant portion of their income.

It isn't legal which is why the local workforce argument never works lol, and I promise these people won't be taking the bus which is why the project will most likely have the same size garage as any other project would. I think it would be visionary if they didn't have a garage to make this argument stronger so people who actually need to be close and use public transportation would actually live there. 

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On 5/1/2020 at 8:07 AM, phillip_white said:

 

I'm sure all of those luxury highrises need maids, maintenance, valet, lawn crew, etc. Projects like this put the workforce near the work. And if highrise people don't want their maid living in the same neighborhood, they should just clean their own home.

In that case, the logical solution would be to include servants' quarters when planning luxury highrises. However, some workers may question such a paternalistic approach, as it  raises concerns about their employment and housing being so closely tied.
The "highrise people" you describe seem implausible, like characters in some lowbrow sit-com. However, if they existed I'm sure they'd appreciate the advice.
I don't know how to make my point any clearer. I want as much affordable housing as possible, not in an inconveniently located crappy neighborhood, but not wasting money on overly expensive real estate either. 
Seems pretty reasonable to me.

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But there's nothing objective about any of that. What's "overly expensive real estate"? What's "an inconveniently located crappy neighborhood"? 

 

This property is undoubtedly expensive, but I'm also pretty confident that it's cheaper than a comparable amount of land downtown. Cost of land *cannot* be the only determinant, or you're just replicating market forces and ending up with "affordable" housing in increasingly marginalized areas with worse and more expensive commutes. 

 

This lot actually seems like a perfect compromise: it's close enough to downtown and the service rich Montrose to be convenient, but it's not right in the middle so it's likely a bit cheaper. It's close enough to Buffalo Bayou to be convenient for recreation and exercise, but it's separated from it by a cemetery so there should be a bit less of a premium. There are multiple non-car transportation options nearby: buses and planned bike lanes on W Dallas, trails along the bayou.

 

If this lot doesn't meet your criteria, then where would?

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1 hour ago, Texasota said:

What's "overly expensive real estate"? What's "an inconveniently located crappy neighborhood"? 

 

1. Montrose, the Heights

2. Cloverleaf, Galena Park

 

1 hour ago, Texasota said:

Cost of land *cannot* be the only determinant, or you're just replicating market forces and ending up with "affordable" housing in increasingly marginalized areas with worse and more expensive commutes. 

 


Did I say that cost of land should be the only determinant? Did I even suggest that? No. I took pains to explain that's NOT what I meant.
Your remarks are appropriate and applicable to places such as Vail, or Aspen, or even San Francisco, where there is  a real shortage of affordable housing within commuting distance for those in the service industries. Houston? Not so much.
"If this lot doesn't meet your criteria, then where would?" 
There's property on the East Side, and in the Astrodome/610 area that is not what I'd call "increasingly marginalized". I'm betting that the land goes for less than it does in the 77019 zip code. Further,  the potential for development adjacent to the Light Rail lines has not been fully realized. These areas would take advantage of efficient transportation while also boosting ridership numbers.
I think I understand your concerns. We don't want to repeat the public housing mistakes that were made in the 1950's and 60's that have had such long-term bad effects on our society. Nor do I.
So let me say it one more time. We need to build affordable housing, and much more of it.
It should be built in places where people would actually like to live.
And it's preferable to build a greater number of units in a moderately priced area than fewer units in an expensive area. 

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2 hours ago, Texasota said:

But there's nothing objective about any of that. What's "overly expensive real estate"? What's "an inconveniently located crappy neighborhood"? 

 

This property is undoubtedly expensive, but I'm also pretty confident that it's cheaper than a comparable amount of land downtown. Cost of land *cannot* be the only determinant, or you're just replicating market forces and ending up with "affordable" housing in increasingly marginalized areas with worse and more expensive commutes. 

 

This lot actually seems like a perfect compromise: it's close enough to downtown and the service rich Montrose to be convenient, but it's not right in the middle so it's likely a bit cheaper. It's close enough to Buffalo Bayou to be convenient for recreation and exercise, but it's separated from it by a cemetery so there should be a bit less of a premium. There are multiple non-car transportation options nearby: buses and planned bike lanes on W Dallas, trails along the bayou.

 

If this lot doesn't meet your criteria, then where would?

You realize that land by the bayou is worth about twice as much as land less than a mile away right? They could put affordable housing by the lower heights district for land about 40% less than this site.

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46 minutes ago, SMU1213 said:

You realize that land by the bayou is worth about twice as much as land less than a mile away right? They could put affordable housing by the lower heights district for land about 40% less than this site.

 

They are putting affordable senior housing along the bayou near Old Sixth Ward... that is some expensive real estate. Lower heights / First Ward / Old Sixth Ward will definitely have new affordable options.

 

Perhaps they choose location based the diversification of housing options in an area, as opposed to strictly land price / cheapest options.

Edited by Avossos
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1 hour ago, dbigtex56 said:

1. Montrose, the Heights

2. Cloverleaf, Galena Park

 


Did I say that cost of land should be the only determinant? Did I even suggest that? No. I took pains to explain that's NOT what I meant.
 

 

You cannot just exclude Montrose and the Heights entirely from affordable housing placement, and if you're starting with that assumption then you must be doing do entirely due to the relative cost of land in those neighborhoods. 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Avossos said:

 

They are putting affordable senior housing along the bayou near Old Sixth Ward... that is some expensive real estate. Lower heights / First Ward / Old Sixth Ward will definitely have new affordable options.

 

Perhaps they choose location based the diversification of housing options in an area, as opposed to strictly land price / cheapest options.

Lower Heights District is less than a mile away and you could build an additional 50 affordable units for the increase in land cost. Hopefully the city would rather have 50 additional units than build at a spot with some of the highest land values in the city less than a mile away. 

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