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METRO Works To Make Bus System Easier To Use


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In a city this size? We should have had the Main st., University, and Uptown built along with quadrupling park&ride and local bus to feed into the light rail. Along with completing I10 and other highways and road projects. But that's in hindsight to adding over a million people between 2000-2010 along with the highly lucrative shale boom. Who wants to wager 2010-2020 will see similar population growth? 

 

I think in most transit systems with rail the the buses feed into the rail stops. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

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I truly say this with full sincerity, but maybe you should just consider moving.  You seem like you are very frustrated that this city isn't what you want it to be, but there are lots of cities that are.  It is well on its way to being a great city, but its not for everybody and it's never going to be San Francisco or New York.

 

I want to see this city aspire to be what it could be. I don't know when it will happen but at some point the good ol boy network will die off and the new blood's ideas will finally take force. 

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I want to see this city aspire to be what it could be. I don't know when it will happen but at some point the good ol boy network will die off and the new blood's ideas will finally take force. 

 

It is a shame that you are so fixated on rail, or else you could see that this is already occurring. 

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In a city this size? We should have had the Main st., University, and Uptown built along with quadrupling park&ride and local bus to feed into the light rail.

OK you said it was a disappointment to feed into the light rail and now you are supporting it. please try and support your argument. as whitney houston said "crack is whack"
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OK you said it was a disappointment to feed into the light rail and now you are supporting it. please try and support your argument. as whitney houston said "crack is whack"

 

Let me clarify Whitney, if you build rail, then you need the appropriate amount of buses to support it. Main St Line was built without the appropriate support. In the Main St. Line case, we should have expanded park &ride, especially in the SW and southern portions because of the TMC; and we should have simultaneously improved the local bus system that serves the downtown and TMC corridors. 

 

I am very much in support of a multmodal SYSTEM that involves many options working together.... 

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It is a shame that you are so fixated on rail, or else you could see that this is already occurring. 

 

Let's not be naive here, we are decade(s) behind on any meaningful investment in mass transit in this city while we are simultaneously trying fiercely to scrape together the money to expand our highways and roads. 

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Let me clarify Whitney, if you build rail, then you need the appropriate amount of buses to support it. Main St Line was built without the appropriate support. In the Main St. Line case, we should have expanded park &ride, especially in the SW and southern portions because of the TMC; and we should have simultaneously improved the local bus system that serves the downtown and TMC corridors. 

 

The entire basis for the original line was that METRO was eliminating parallel bus lines so that riders would be forced to ride the METRO and gain immediate ridership. Main st buses and those parallel were the most dense in the city of houston. METRO has shortened multiple perpendicular lines to also force customers to ride the rail on their last leg of their destination.

Park and ride is not designed to be a system of transfers but rather one ride to your final destination which encourages ridership.

With the north, east and southeast lines coming online in the future, we are talking a completely different beast. There are not as many instant ridership possiblities as there were with the initial line so the expected ridership won't be comparable. This is why METRO was really pushing for the Richmond line to be build simultaneously. I fully suspect that this will be the final nail in the coffin for the Richmond line.

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The entire basis for the original line was that METRO was eliminating parallel bus lines so that riders would be forced to ride the METRO and gain immediate ridership. Main st buses and those parallel were the most dense in the city of houston. METRO has shortened multiple perpendicular lines to also force customers to ride the rail on their last leg of their destination.

Park and ride is not designed to be a system of transfers but rather one ride to your final destination which encourages ridership.

With the north, east and southeast lines coming online in the future, we are talking a completely different beast. There are not as many instant ridership possiblities as there were with the initial line so the expected ridership won't be comparable. This is why METRO was really pushing for the Richmond line to be build simultaneously. I fully suspect that this will be the final nail in the coffin for the Richmond line.

 

Of course you eliminate parallel bus lines, redundancy isn't important here. Where METRO and this city dropped the ball was not providing the right amount of perpendicular lines to feed into the rail. That was my point. 

 

Park and ride can certainly be used to feed into the rail lines, some 25-33% of rail riders got there from P&R. The rail provides the last stop for many suburban commuters. And lastly, the P&R system is currently setup to serve Greenway, Downtown, and the TMC; that is 3 out 4 employment centers alongside the proposed rail lines. 

 

The lines under the construction will be more for the working class and students, no doubt. You are also correct about the ridership. I would imagine that will be used to justify not building the other lines. All the while another decade will be wasted and we will add another million people in the metro..... 

 

Lastly, you asked what option I would do for a city this size and I told you. If you want to move the goal posts, by all means. 

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The entire basis for the original line was that METRO was eliminating parallel bus lines so that riders would be forced to ride the METRO and gain immediate ridership. Main st buses and those parallel were the most dense in the city of houston. METRO has shortened multiple perpendicular lines to also force customers to ride the rail on their last leg of their destination.

Park and ride is not designed to be a system of transfers but rather one ride to your final destination which encourages ridership.

With the north, east and southeast lines coming online in the future, we are talking a completely different beast. There are not as many instant ridership possiblities as there were with the initial line so the expected ridership won't be comparable. This is why METRO was really pushing for the Richmond line to be build simultaneously. I fully suspect that this will be the final nail in the coffin for the Richmond line.

Hahahaha. The new lines are in low income high density areas, in essence, the people that need mass transit the most. Ridership will be very good and with the increasing population and gridlock people will be clamoring for better transit within a decade.

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Hahahaha. The new lines are in low income high density areas, in essence, the people that need mass transit the most. Ridership will be very good and with the increasing population and gridlock people will be clamoring for better transit within a decade.

 

Careful now, the transit will need to take them where they want to go. I doubt too many of them will need to go downtown for work every day.

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Park and ride can certainly be used to feed into the rail lines, some 25-33% of rail riders got there from P&R. The rail provides the last stop for many suburban commuters.

What numbers are you using as a basis? "many suburban commuters" is a vague statement.

And lastly, the P&R system is currently setup to serve Greenway, Downtown, and the TMC; that is 3 out 4 employment centers alongside the proposed rail lines. 

what proposed rail lines are going thru TMC and greenway?

The lines under the construction will be more for the working class and students, no doubt. You are also correct about the ridership. I would imagine that will be used to justify not building the other lines. All the while another decade will be wasted and we will add another million people in the metro..... 

The majority of those coming to houston will not be served by any rail line since the suburbs are were larger increases are happening. luckily the harris and surrounding counties continue to work to improve the remainder of the transporation system.
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What numbers are you using as a basis? "many suburban commuters" is a vague statement.what proposed rail lines are going thru TMC and greenway?The majority of those coming to houston will not be served by any rail line since the suburbs are were larger increases are happening. luckily the harris and surrounding counties continue to work to improve the remainder of the transporation system.

Yes the counties that voted against the GM payments

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Let's not be naive here, we are decade(s) behind on any meaningful investment in mass transit in this city while we are simultaneously trying fiercely to scrape together the money to expand our highways and roads. 

 

I agree, let's not be naive. Why don't you, Slick, mfastx, and a few others take your own advice? I realize that it is more fun...and far easier...to talk smack on Houston and everything about it. Hey, I've lived here longer than most all of you have been alive. I've heard it all. But, here's the deal. None of your Houston smack talk is new, or intelligent or cool. It is the same old tired cliched smack talk that Houston haters have used for decades. 

 

Now, a cool, hip and intelligent poster would respond with ideas that take into account our reality and the TITLE OF THIS THREAD, and make suggestions on how to improve METRO. But, you guys won't do that. You will continue taking the easy way out, the lazy way, by claiming that rail is the only solution. kdog made an attempt at originality my saying we needed to quadruple the park&ride system. But, he needs to look at the numbers and scale back a bit. 42% of downtown workers already commute. There are not enough workers left to quadruple ridership. Sure, we can add destinations, like the Med Center, Greenway, Galleria, etc., but this won't produce 4 times the number of current users. But, it is a start. And, it is a whole lot better than Slick Vic's tired trolling.

 

So, how about we get back to the thread topic? Hasn't Slick Vic derailed (pun intended) enough transit topics with his tired rhetoric already?

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I agree, let's not be naive. Why don't you, Slick, mfastx, and a few others take your own advice? I realize that it is more fun...and far easier...to talk smack on Houston and everything about it. Hey, I've lived here longer than most all of you have been alive. I've heard it all. But, here's the deal. None of your Houston smack talk is new, or intelligent or cool. It is the same old tired cliched smack talk that Houston haters have used for decades.

Now, a cool, hip and intelligent poster would respond with ideas that take into account our reality and the TITLE OF THIS THREAD, and make suggestions on how to improve METRO. But, you guys won't do that. You will continue taking the easy way out, the lazy way, by claiming that rail is the only solution. kdog made an attempt at originality my saying we needed to quadruple the park&ride system. But, he needs to look at the numbers and scale back a bit. 42% of downtown workers already commute. There are not enough workers left to quadruple ridership. Sure, we can add destinations, like the Med Center, Greenway, Galleria, etc., but this won't produce 4 times the number of current users. But, it is a start. And, it is a whole lot better than Slick Vic's tired trolling.

So, how about we get back to the thread topic? Hasn't Slick Vic derailed (pun intended) enough transit topics with his tired rhetoric already?

I'm not okay with the status quo, I want better for the city. Every world class city in the world has a good rail system, that is the reality. There are cities in third world countries building rail systems but houston the 4th largest city in the world's superpower can't have one. It's a total embarrassment.

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Careful now, the transit will need to take them where they want to go. I doubt too many of them will need to go downtown for work every day.

 

Downtown is the hub for most bus routes. So yeah, many of them do need to go Downtown on their way to work.

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The entire basis for the original line was that METRO was eliminating parallel bus lines so that riders would be forced to ride the METRO and gain immediate ridership. Main st buses and those parallel were the most dense in the city of houston. METRO has shortened multiple perpendicular lines to also force customers to ride the rail on their last leg of their destination.

 

I think it was more about eliminating redundant bus routes that carry the same people but at a less efficient rate than rail. 

 

And Red, why the shot at me?  I don't bash Houston. 

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I agree, let's not be naive. Why don't you, Slick, mfastx, and a few others take your own advice? I realize that it is more fun...and far easier...to talk smack on Houston and everything about it. Hey, I've lived here longer than most all of you have been alive. I've heard it all. But, here's the deal. None of your Houston smack talk is new, or intelligent or cool. It is the same old tired cliched smack talk that Houston haters have used for decades. 

 

Houston smack? Please.... Sometimes you just have to step back and realize your city is hot mess when it comes to METRO and planning for the future in this city. Maybe you don't get outside of the city, state, and national boundaries but there is a whole world out there.....

 

At some point when you continue to grow by a million people per decade, maybe you'll realize that "being cheap" (cost of living, housing, infrastructure, etc) can turn in turn into negative. 

 

 

Now, a cool, hip and intelligent poster would respond with ideas that take into account our reality and the TITLE OF THIS THREAD, and make suggestions on how to improve METRO. But, you guys won't do that. You will continue taking the easy way out, the lazy way, by claiming that rail is the only solution.

kdog made an attempt at originality my saying we needed to quadruple the park&ride system. But, he needs to look at the numbers and scale back a bit. 42% of downtown workers already commute. There are not enough workers left to quadruple ridership. Sure, we can add destinations, like the Med Center, Greenway, Galleria, etc., but this won't produce 4 times the number of current users. But, it is a start. And, it is a whole lot better than Slick Vic's tired trolling.

 

MOST major cities around the world do have rail in its core, not because it is cool or hip, because it is useful and is part of building a system for growing metro. You people here act like Houston couldn't support rail which is either just LAZY thinking or ignorant thinking. 

 

Rail is just ONE SOLUTION among many to build a SYSTEM. Do y'all know what a system is? It contains different types of buses working with different types of rail to move people, Houston doesn't need a system the includes heavy rail or subway, but putting light rail in the core is a pretty good next evolution for this blossoming metro of 6.3 million and growing.

 

And about that core. Hmmm, let's see.... our proposed light rail would have connected Houston's 4 largest AND densest employment centers, it's major educational centers, 4 professional sports stadiums, ballparks, arenas, several major parks, and it's major cultural offerings. Those things listed are the anti-thesis of what good systems would want..... 

 

And back to the P&R ride, while it may not produce 4X the ridership it could certainly double if down properly. The buses ALL don't have to occupy the grade separated lanes, the ones that don't get in those lanes could have their price reduced as an example. Furthermore, I've always wondered why a "private" solution hasn't become commonplace among the larger and more successful MPCs. For example  Sienna Plantation could run private buses during rush hour to the Med Center (Downtown and Uptown if its feasible). Maybe they do and I'm just unaware. 

 

So, how about we get back to the thread topic? Hasn't Slick Vic derailed (pun intended) enough transit topics with his tired rhetoric already?

 

I think based on our realities "rebuilding our bus system" is a good place to start. If we can't get support in the Houston metro for expanding our road and mass transit infrastructure then we should seriously look at more BRT, P&R, and better local bus service. However, realize it is akin to putting a bandaid over a major gash along a major artery. 

Downtown is the hub for most bus routes. So yeah, many of them do need to go Downtown on their way to work.

 

Well then the ridership should be higher than I initially believe. 

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Careful now, the transit will need to take them where they want to go. I doubt too many of them will need to go downtown for work every day.

 

Just because that's where the line terminates, that doesn't mean it's the destination.

 

By this logic, everyone riding on the current red line had a final destination of UHD.

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Part of the point of the original post was that the bus system connected well with downtown and TMC, but not so well with the other parts of Houston. They're looking for a new paradigm, and I salute them for that. We've got a lot of people who need to go to a lot of different places and the bus system doesn't serve them well enough to get them out of their cars. I know from my experience that going anywhere on Metro takes 2 to 3 times longer than it would if I just hopped in the car and drove.

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MOST major cities around the world do have rail in its core, not because it is cool or hip, because it is useful and is part of building a system for growing metro. You people here act like Houston couldn't support rail which is either just LAZY thinking or ignorant thinking. 

 

Rail is just ONE SOLUTION among many to build a SYSTEM. Do y'all know what a system is? It contains different types of buses working with different types of rail to move people, Houston doesn't need a system the includes heavy rail or subway, but putting light rail in the core is a pretty good next evolution for this blossoming metro of 6.3 million and growing.

 

I disagree with your premise.  Most US cities that have built transit systems post WWII have done so exactly because it's cool and hip.  The thought is that cities won't attract the "creative class" without rail and the stigma that buses are for poor people.

 

If you want to understand the concerns that some Houstonians have about rail, look at Dallas.  They've spent a huge amount of money putting in an 85 mile light rail system that has a daily ridership of 109,511 as of Oct 2012.  And what has the impact of that system been?  They are doing massive amounts of highway improvement and construction so it doesn't seem to have alleviated that need.  They're needing to provide financial incentives to developers to get them to build next to the rail stations.  It hasn't created urbanization or density in the areas serviced by rail and it hasn't reduced sprawl.

 

If you would like to have a discussion about how Dallas' light rail has been useful and why you feel a comparable system would have different results in Houston, I would be happy to create a thread to have that conversation.

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I disagree with your premise.  Most US cities that have built transit systems post WWII have done so exactly because it's cool and hip.  The thought is that cities won't attract the "creative class" without rail and the stigma that buses are for poor people.

 

Any evidence to back up this claim?  Considering the fact that most rail systems in the US attract more riders, carry them at a more efficient rate, and just generally make the area a better place to live, I have a hard time believe that all major metropolitan areas spend billions on something just because it's "hip."

 

If you want to understand the concerns that some Houstonians have about rail, look at Dallas.  They've spent a huge amount of money putting in an 85 mile light rail system that has a daily ridership of 109,511 as of Oct 2012.  And what has the impact of that system been?  They are doing massive amounts of highway improvement and construction so it doesn't seem to have alleviated that need.  They're needing to provide financial incentives to developers to get them to build next to the rail stations.  It hasn't created urbanization or density in the areas serviced by rail and it hasn't reduced sprawl.

 

If you would like to have a discussion about how Dallas' light rail has been useful and why you feel a comparable system would have different results in Houston, I would be happy to create a thread to have that conversation.

 

How long has it been since their first line opened, 20 years or so?  Even less?  Give it some time, jeez.  The benefits of rail will really start to show 50-75 years from now. 

 

Dallas is happy with their investment, and their transit ridership is growing.  It will continue to grow into the future. 

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I disagree with your premise.  Most US cities that have built transit systems post WWII have done so exactly because it's cool and hip.  The thought is that cities won't attract the "creative class" without rail and the stigma that buses are for poor people.

 

No, Richard Florida is the only guy I know saying that.

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I disagree with your premise. Most US cities that have built transit systems post WWII have done so exactly because it's cool and hip. The thought is that cities won't attract the "creative class" without rail and the stigma that buses are for poor people.

If you want to understand the concerns that some Houstonians have about rail, look at Dallas. They've spent a huge amount of money putting in an 85 mile light rail system that has a daily ridership of 109,511 as of Oct 2012. And what has the impact of that system been? They are doing massive amounts of highway improvement and construction so it doesn't seem to have alleviated that need. They're needing to provide financial incentives to developers to get them to build next to the rail stations. It hasn't created urbanization or density in the areas serviced by rail and it hasn't reduced sprawl.

If you would like to have a discussion about how Dallas' light rail has been useful and why you feel a comparable system would have different results in Houston, I would be happy to create a thread to have that conversation.

Look at Seattle, Minneapolis, Denver, Phoenix, Orlando, who are all undergoing rail expansions. There must be something to it.

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I have an idea: why not discuss ways of improving Metro's bus service? I think that's the topic.

 

For example, does Metro have an app so that smartphone users can easily access bus schedules (I don't have one, so I really don't know.)

 

A more exciting app would tell the user the way to the closest bus line, and/or the bus arriving soonest. Also, with GPS tracking, buses could be monitored in real time, so one would know if he had time for that refill, or to make tracks to the nearest stop. (And I hope I didn't offend opponents of rail by using the term 'make tracks'.)

 

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I tried to suggest such, but was ignored. It seems that some of our posters would rather complain about trains that are 10-20 years away than buses that are here today. I shudder to think that Vik will be complaining about our trains for the next 20 years.

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I have an idea: why not discuss ways of improving Metro's bus service? I think that's the topic.

 

For example, does Metro have an app so that smartphone users can easily access bus schedules (I don't have one, so I really don't know.)

 

A more exciting app would tell the user the way to the closest bus line, and/or the bus arriving soonest. Also, with GPS tracking, buses could be monitored in real time, so one would know if he had time for that refill, or to make tracks to the nearest stop. (And I hope I didn't offend opponents of rail by using the term 'make tracks'.)

 

All this territory is covered by the Google Maps app. We need real-time tracking of buses, though.

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I have an idea: why not discuss ways of improving Metro's bus service? I think that's the topic.

 

For example, does Metro have an app so that smartphone users can easily access bus schedules (I don't have one, so I really don't know.)

 

A more exciting app would tell the user the way to the closest bus line, and/or the bus arriving soonest. Also, with GPS tracking, buses could be monitored in real time, so one would know if he had time for that refill, or to make tracks to the nearest stop. (And I hope I didn't offend opponents of rail by using the term 'make tracks'.)

I recall some time ago they were talking about having light timings change as a bus approached to reduce the time buses sit at a red light and reduce overall transit time. They were also talking about displaying real-time information on bus arrivals at stops so you would know when the next bus was due to arrive.

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