Jump to content
HAIF - Houston's original social media

What are the odds these will all be built?


Downtown Projects  

90 members have voted

  1. 1. Which will get built?

    • 609 Main (Hines)
      79
    • Capitol Tower (Skanska)
      51
    • Linbeck Market Square project
      27
    • New Chevron tower
      73
    • 5 Allen Center (Brookfield)
      16
    • Foley's / Americana blocks (Hilcorp Ventures)
      43
    • 6 Houston Center (Crescent)
      4


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 105
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

the first four wards have their dividing lines at Main and Texas, so that's hy the quadrants are divided there.   why redraw the map....lol

Okay, it's two blocks away, and all over the world there are many large towers that loom over heavily utilized pedestrian areas.  It's all about street level interaction.  No matter how tall the build

I don't really follow your second sentence. As far as treblelino, he wasn't really complaining, and I think his point was legitimate, at least as far as office development - I count four new buildings

Posted Images

I would say the Foley's/Hilcorp project is further along than people think. This has been a rumor for over a year and like Exxon/Chevron, they do not need to wait for pre-leasing. The tenants have been moved out of the Americana Building and of course, out of Foley's. I think we will see the plans by the end of the year and construction in 2014.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say the Foley's/Hilcorp project is further along than people think. This has been a rumor for over a year and like Exxon/Chevron, they do not need to wait for pre-leasing. The tenants have been moved out of the Americana Building and of course, out of Foley's. I think we will see the plans by the end of the year and construction in 2014.

 

You are saying then this a single-tenant project?  Over two blocks?  That would be massive, but I haven't heard anything.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You are saying then this a single-tenant project?  Over two blocks?  That would be massive, but I haven't heard anything.

Not a single tenant project but they obviously already have a lead tenant (Hilcorp) which is why they can move forward. i really don't know the entire scope of the project but i've heard the office building will be around 450K sf.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say the Foley's/Hilcorp project is further along than people think. This has been a rumor for over a year and like Exxon/Chevron, they do not need to wait for pre-leasing. The tenants have been moved out of the Americana Building and of course, out of Foley's. I think we will see the plans by the end of the year and construction in 2014.

 

I'd tend to agree. They've gone to DD on the core and shell once already with the former architect. My understanding is, they're moving forward again with a new architect on the C&S for a 750k sf building.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would anyone devote two downtown blocks to the development of 300,000 square feet of office space, or even 1 block?

 

This is in the heart of downtown, too... 

 

Hopefully, we're going to get a mixed use project. My dream?

 

300,000 -500,000 square feet of office space

50,000 square feet of retail (street and tunnel levels)

150 room ultra high end hotel (Mandarin Oriental?)

80 high end condo units tied to the Mandarin (house keeping, room service, concierge, etc...)

 

Houston has matured enough to land one of these one would think. Hell, i could see corporate entities gobbling up the residential units rather quickly (similar to what happened at Four Seasons and One Park Place).

Edited by KinkaidAlum
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is in the heart of downtown, too... 

 

Hopefully, we're going to get a mixed use project. My dream?

 

300,000 -500,000 square feet of office space

50,000 square feet of retail (street and tunnel levels)

150 room ultra high end hotel (Mandarin Oriental?)

80 high end condo units tied to the Mandarin (house keeping, room service, concierge, etc...)

 

Houston has matured enough to land one of these one would think. Hell, i could see corporate entities gobbling up the residential units rather quickly (similar to what happened at Four Seasons and One Park Place).

 

Are there even Mardarins in the U.S.? I lived in one in Manila for a month and a half while waiting for my furniture to arrive when I moved there back in 1997, and it was nice, if unremarkable. Honestly I'd much prefer a Shangri-La with an attached Chi spa. Definitely the better of the two, and Houston definitely deserves one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dunno... I'm not the developer/owner. I can tell you with all certainty though, it IS what it is.

 

 

Hmmm...Yesterday hoothrewpoo told us that they had a team of architects working on a 750,000 square foot building (post #13).

 

Less than 4 hours later he/she told us that "it's neither [450,000 or 750,000 sq ft]. Less than 450,000 for sure, probably closer to 300k."

 

Are we looking at 300,000 square feet of office space and 450,000 square feet of mixed use (hotel, retail, condos) or is hoothrewpoo throwing poo?  ;-)

 

As an aside, even a 750k project seems awfully small for 2 full blocks in the middle of downtown Houston.  Color me skeptical.  I'm thinking (hoping) the 750k building is for just one of the blocks.  

 

Maybe something like that concept rendering showing a Macy's store that we originally thought was a proposed rehab of the existing building could still happen?

Edited by Houston19514
Link to post
Share on other sites

Are there even Mardarins in the U.S.? I lived in one in Manila for a month and a half while waiting for my furniture to arrive when I moved there back in 1997, and it was nice, if unremarkable. Honestly I'd much prefer a Shangri-La with an attached Chi spa. Definitely the better of the two, and Houston definitely deserves one.

 

Yes, there are Mandarins in the US.  Only a half dozen or so, but they are here.   Would be a great addition for Houston.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone know what that approximates in terms of stories on a downtown block?

 

For a point of reference, according to the Chron, the Foleys/Macys building has 791,000 square feet... 10 floors.

 

So 300,000 square feet filling the block to the sidewalks would be about 4 stories.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm...Yesterday hoothrewpoo told us that they had a team of architects working on a 750,000 square foot building (post #13).

 

Less than 4 hours later he/she told us that "it's neither [450,000 or 750,000 sq ft]. Less than 450,000 for sure, probably closer to 300k."

 

Are we looking at 300,000 square feet of office space and 450,000 square feet of mixed use (hotel, retail, condos) or is hoothrewpoo throwing poo?  ;-)

 

As an aside, even a 750k project seems awfully small for 2 full blocks in the middle of downtown Houston.  Color me skeptical.

 

Fair enough. No reason to spread any more misinformation then. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

I'm assuming that there are known clients looking for a big chunk of space in a new office space downtown and we are simply awaiting their decision on which proposed development they'll choose. Am i incorrect?

Do we know who these clients are and how much space they need?

Edited by lockmat
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm assuming that there are known clients looking for a big chunk of space in a new office space downtown and we are simply awaiting their decision on which proposed development they'll choose. Am i incorrect?

Do we know who these clients are and how much space they need?

From the report you linked earlier it lists two tenants in the market at the end of the leasing activity section: Bechtel Corporation, 630,000 square feet (West Houston) and American Bureau of Shipping, 400,000 square feet (Woodlands).

It goes on to give some interesting information regarding proposed projects and other possible tenants "...18 proposed developments are being marketed for build-to-suit opportunities. Tenants such as Bechtel Corporation and ConocoPhillips are actively canvassing this region for land purchases or build-to-suits."

It makes it sound like there are just multiple tenants in the market and the proposed downtown towers are just showing them what they can have instead of a sprawling suburban campus. Although ConocoPhillips is probably more likely to buy Exxon's property in the Energy Corridor then it is to build a downtown tower it'd still be interesting to see how much space they're looking for. And I'm sure those 3 are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to companies looking to expand in Houston as there are probably companies from out of state looking to relocate.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Stream is a close second to Hines? Or it's a close second to being dead last?

Sorry. It is a close second to hines, in terms of the beauty and uniqueness of the building

Link to post
Share on other sites

even with the full rendering Capitol Tower doesn't get any more impressive... think glass rectangular box.

 

That was my fear after seeing their Waterwall development.

 

What a shame. Was hoping Skanska would bring some European styling to downtown Houston. Instead, we'll lose a historical box (which we don't have many of) to gain a generic glass box (or which we have many)

Link to post
Share on other sites

That was my fear after seeing their Waterwall development.

 

What a shame. Was hoping Skanska would bring some European styling to downtown Houston. Instead, we'll lose a historical box (which we don't have many of) to gain a generic glass box (or which we have many)

 

If the tenant they're all fighting over has any sense, they'll go with HInes or maybe Stream. They're much more dynamic than this one. However, I'm sure there are other factors besides design that weigh into the decision.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If the tenant they're all fighting over has any sense, they'll go with HInes or maybe Stream. They're much more dynamic than this one. However, I'm sure there are other factors besides design that weigh into the decision.

actually if tenant(s) have any real sense design would likely be far, far, FAR down the list of deciding factors. cost (including build out allowances), parking, efficiency, amenities, and location downtown should weigh significantly heavier for most prospective tenants. not all, but definitely most.

Link to post
Share on other sites

actually if tenant(s) have any real sense design would likely be far, far, FAR down the list of deciding factors. cost (including build out allowances), parking, efficiency, amenities, and location downtown should weigh significantly heavier for most prospective tenants. not all, but definitely most.

Touché.

However, how much of a difference is there really among those things?

How would you rank the locations?

Link to post
Share on other sites

actually if tenant(s) have any real sense design would likely be far, far, FAR down the list of deciding factors. cost (including build out allowances), parking, efficiency, amenities, and location downtown should weigh significantly heavier for most prospective tenants. not all, but definitely most.

 

As somebody who has been through a couple office moves downtown, I think you're overstating your point.  Yes, there's a threshold that needs to be met on parking, amenities, location, etc, but there is certainly consideration to "the buzz" of being in a nice looking building.  When you move offices you want the employees to be excited about where they're heading to next, especially if you're willing to pay for A+ space, which our company was. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

As somebody who has been through a couple office moves downtown, I think you're overstating your point.  Yes, there's a threshold that needs to be met on parking, amenities, location, etc, but there is certainly consideration to "the buzz" of being in a nice looking building.  When you move offices you want the employees to be excited about where they're heading to next, especially if you're willing to pay for A+ space, which our company was. 

which is why i said "not all but definitely most." most companies factor cost well above "buzz".

Link to post
Share on other sites

Touché.

However, how much of a difference is there really among those things?

How would you rank the locations?

As for location Skanska wins in my book.  They will have five tunnel connections when they are complete.  Right next to the tallest building in Houston and easy walking distance to the theater district.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

Well this bisnow article has some great news for Hines' 609 Main, but I also think it bodes well for the other prospective buildings because it talks about for the need for more state of the art facilities and how they are good for recruiting.

http://www.bisnow.com/commercial-real-estate/houston/greg-and-chip-to-head-hendricks-berkadia/

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

So obviously Chevron is official now. the good news is the tower already has its own tenant, so it wont be taking away from any of the other downtown developments. maybe we will see a mini boom happen over the next few years.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

I added 6 Houston Center to the poll since the project has been resurrected.

Based off the info we know now about these office towers, which ones do you all think has the most likely to least likely chance of getting off the ground?

From most likely to least:

Hilcorp Energy Tower - Tenant secured, demolition of Macy's building on-going.

1600 Louisiana - Tenant secured as well, but Chevron still has to make its final decision.

609 Main - Moving forward w/o tenant, construction date set and because the developer is Hines. ;)

Capitol Tower - No construction date set yet, but the Houston Club building is being gutted out; because the developer is Skanska, highly likely as well.

Six Houston Center - Construction date given, official announcement coming soon.

Five Allen Center - This one will be built eventually, but more likely later rather than sooner.

International Tower - Soil testing done back in July, they hope to make an official announcement this year. As time goes on it looks like International Tower will be the last one to start construction, if at all.

It seems all are moving forward behind the scenes though.

Edited by Urbannizer
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Are there any renderings off the Hilcorp Tower?

No renderings yet. More info should be revealed once the Macy's building comes down next Sunday. What we know so far, from the Macy's Redevelopment Thread:

  • Believed to begin construction the end of this year or ealry next year
  • 23-Stories, said to look like an elliptical prism
  • Developer: Hines
  • Park like area on the roof top floor
  • Does not take up the entire block
  • Retail included
  • December 2015 completion date
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not new construction, so not on the list, but I think the project that is potentially most at risk is the redevelopment of the Exxon Building.  The location is suboptimal, tunnel connections would be expensive to build, there will be no lead tenant, and the structure may need some (very expensive) asbestos remediation.  On top of all that, Exxon won't fully vacate until starting in 2015, by which time a lot of these other Class A buildings would have come online.  All it takes is one downturn and this can become a huge white elephant.  It is easy to see a scenario where it remains vacant for decades, like its neighbor the Heaven on Earth Inn. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...



×
×
  • Create New...