Inner Loop Traffic

[feufoma]

We all realize that IL traffic is getting more congested but today has taken the cake! All Star game aside the overall mobility was a huge issue. I think it's a good representation of what local traffic could be like in, say, 2017. Not good. Not good at all...

[trymahjong]

It doesn't matter which direction I travel on I59 between 288 and 610---------It's always  congested!  Its a bit scarey to see the traffic back up while headed east at the Main street exit!'

[feufoma]

Poor design of the Montrose trench!

[Trae]

This is where a real rail system would have really come in handy for a lot of people.

[samagon]

Traffic on the freeways was horrendous, however, after seeing that it was there at all manner of hour this past weekend, I chose surface streets to bypass the traffic around that area. I'm not sure if it was any faster, but it felt like I was doing something.

 

It's particularly frustrating cause everywhere I went this weekend would have been easily accessible by the planned university line. Granted, if it had gone through, it still wouldn't be done. Ironic still, cause the surface streets I chose to use instead of the freeway were roads the university line would have gone down.

[infinite_jim]

I didn't run into any traffic congestion but everywhere I went I noticed folks driving very aggressively.

 

 

[IHB2]

This is where a real rail system would have really come in handy for a lot of people.

 

Inner Loop traffic was about the same this weekend on surface streets when I went from the Greenway Plaza area to Midtown and the next day to Downtown (not the NBA east side).

 

I didn't use a freeway. 15 minutes max from my door to 3200 Louisiana Saturday and the same the next day to the Market Square area.

 

That's the point of living inside the Loop. Don't get on the damn freeways which are generally packed with outerLoopers.

 

You and a couple of other posters here seem to think the planned 5 line LRT system would remove those freeway drivers. That seems unlikely unless enough of them live within a short distance of the outside the Loop terminus (termini?).

 

The only really horrific Inner Loop traffic is in the Central Market parking lot any time the store is open. Millions of $$$ of German steel competing for any parking space within 100 yds of the door 

[mikehouston]

Inner Loop traffic was about the same this weekend on surface streets when I went from the Greenway Plaza area to Midtown and the next day to Downtown (not the NBA east side).

 

I didn't use a freeway. 15 minutes max from my door to 3200 Louisiana Saturday and the same the next day to the Market Square area.

 

That's the point of living inside the Loop. Don't get on the damn freeways which are generally packed with outerLoopers.

 

You and a couple of other posters here seem to think the planned 5 line LRT system would remove those freeway drivers. That seems unlikely unless enough of them live within a short distance of the outside the Loop terminus (termini?).

 

The only really horrific Inner Loop traffic is in the Central Market parking lot any time the store is open. Millions of $$$ of German steel competing for any parking space within 100 yds of the door 

 

It took me about an hour to get from Beechnut and Chimney Rock to Westheimer and Chimney Rock (a trip that normally takes about 15-20 minutes, even with "rush hour" traffic).  I think there were about 50 concerts scheduled for that night in the Galleria area, and everybody and their grandma was trying to turn into a parking lot somewhere on the Richmond strip.  Even shopping centers in the Galleria are that are normally not crowded like the SW corner of Fountain View and Westheimer were tough to find a parking space in - I'm still not sure why exactly.

 

I used the surface roads thinking they would not be crowded since my wife had told me that 610 was a mess.  Didn't help.

 

They definitely could have been helped by some sort of shuttle down Richmond / Galleria area and some off-site parking.  I don't know that anybody realized it was going to get that bad.  I didn't even realize that area was still that popular .

[ClutchCity]

Just think what the traffic would be like if we got that Super Bowl in 2017. Even if the buses were done by then it would probably be much worse with how much that area will be developed. Hopefully the east side of downtown will attract more people with how much that'll have been developed by then but the Galleria is definitely gonna close again!

[ToryGattis]

According to news reports, what happened was that multiple all-stars tweeted they would be at the Galleria, and so every fan in the city converged on it hoping to meet their favorite celebrity.  Of course that created total gridlock.  I don't think the Super Bowl would create such a scenario.  Super Bowl players are focused on the game, not making celebrity appearances (outside of media day at the stadium - and that's restricted to media).

 

The solution is simple: in the future, the NBA should do a little coordinating to spread the celebrity appearances out around town, rather than concentrated in the Galleria.

[RedScare]

Doesn't sound very free market.

[ToryGattis]

Doesn't sound very free market.

 

Totally free market.  A private organization coordinating its marketing activities.  Non-free-market would be government telling them what to do.

[Trae]

NBA players do what they want outside of their own obligations that they go to during all star weekend. If they want to go to the galleria, then thats where they are going to go.

[brian0123]

I was trying to get to Home Depot from Braeswood and the loop was even getting clogged down towards Beechnut. The exit ramp to 59 North was also at a standstill. Surface roads were also jammed (as that was the route I took).

 

If anything, I think this highlighted how crappy 610 by the Galleria is. That one clog caused our freeway system to come to a screeching halt (even side roads). Maybe they should double-deck the thing so people that want to avoid the Galleria can just cruise on above it.

[samagon]

You and a couple of other posters here seem to think the planned 5 line LRT system would remove those freeway drivers. That seems unlikely unless enough of them live within a short distance of the outside the Loop terminus (termini?).

 

I can't speak for the motives of others, but for me, the east end transit center is less than a mile from my house. The times I've ridden the mainstreet line it's been very reliable (stopping at each stop, not just parking indiscriminately for random whatever), which I can't say that same for my experience with the buses. The few times I've taken the bus, I've watched the driver skip stops (with people standing there looking at the bus in a perplexed manner) break route, all that stuff. I've not been on a bus when they just stop randomly, but I've observed them doing it.

 

My point is, right now I can walk less than 250 feet and be at a bus stop that connects to other bus routes around town that would likely put me within 200-500 feet of my destination, but I'd rather drive than be on a bus. When/if the University line is built (assuming it terminates at the east end transit center as currently planned), I'd opt to walk less than a mile to get on the train and walk however far it is from the stop to the destination rather than driving, or taking the bus (assuming the destination is less than a mile or two from the train stop).

[ig2ba]

I was trying to get to Home Depot from Braeswood and the loop was even getting clogged down towards Beechnut. The exit ramp to 59 North was also at a standstill. Surface roads were also jammed (as that was the route I took).

 

If anything, I think this highlighted how crappy 610 by the Galleria is. That one clog caused our freeway system to come to a screeching halt (even side roads). Maybe they should double-deck the thing so people that want to avoid the Galleria can just cruise on above it.

 

If by "crappy", you mean operating far above design capacity, I totally agree. TxDOT did about the best they could rebuilding it in 2007 as a no-capacity-added project, but the fact is - the West Loop needed to be improved 20 years ago, like they were planning to do in the 1990s.

 

I think that would make an interesting thread on HAIF: do you support/oppose adding capacity to 610 and why?

[samagon]

I think that would make an interesting thread on HAIF: do you support/oppose adding capacity to 610 and why?

 

The solution is simple, just build a toll road over the top of the railroad track that runs parallel to west 610, it could go from the south loop up to the new toll road that will follow 290.

[brian0123]

The solution is simple, just build a toll road over the top of the railroad track that runs parallel to west 610, it could go from the south loop up to the new toll road that will follow 290.

 

No more toll roads, but interesting idea. I doubt it would happen, though, because it would be fought by Bellaire, West U, Afton Oaks, and lots of other neighborhoods that have lots of money.

[IHB2]

The solution is simple, just build a toll road over the top of the railroad track that runs parallel to west 610, it could go from the south loop up to the new toll road that will follow 290.

 

 

For the same reason the West Loop can never be wider than it is now, Memorial Park makes your toll road impossible, unless you are willing for Memorial Park to be removed from public ownership under terms of the original title transfer:

 

"Originally the site of Camp Logan, a training camp for the soldiers of WWI, the property was purchased by the Hogg family and then conveyed to the city at cost in 1925. Under the transfer agreement, the land must be used for park purposes only." (Memorial Park Conservancy website - my emphasis)

[ToryGattis]

I've thought for a long time a partial solution to taking pressure off the West Loop might be turning Voss/Hillcroft from Westpark/59 to I10 into a grade-separated road like Allen Parkway or Memorial (underpasses at the major intersections).  I think the RoW might be there for a tight 4 lanes.  Hunters Creek Village would probably never approve, so it would probably take TXDoT to force it through.

 

More politically feasible would be elevating 3-4 express lanes down the median of the West Loop.

[OkieEric]

Traffic on the freeways was horrendous, however, after seeing that it was there at all manner of hour this past weekend, I chose surface streets to bypass the traffic around that area. I'm not sure if it was any faster, but it felt like I was doing something.

 

It's particularly frustrating cause everywhere I went this weekend would have been easily accessible by the planned university line. Granted, if it had gone through, it still wouldn't be done. Ironic still, cause the surface streets I chose to use instead of the freeway were roads the university line would have gone down.

 

I don't know...after switching my Montrose to downtown commute out to Med Center area to downtown, I'm really starting to think rail down Richmond is just a bad idea.  At least with that design.  Rail down Richmond = horrendous traffic on Richmond and every street that crosses it.  I've sat at a red light that's somehow stayed red for 5 min.  Imagine something like that on Montrose, Shepherd, etc?  Suddenly any people using sidestreets to try to get around are forced onto the major roads to cross the rail line, creating even more congestion.  Not worth it.  You could say just take the rail but the stops along a few straight lines aren't all that accessible to most of the population

[Slick Vik]

I don't know...after switching my Montrose to downtown commute out to Med Center area to downtown, I'm really starting to think rail down Richmond is just a bad idea. At least with that design. Rail down Richmond = horrendous traffic on Richmond and every street that crosses it. I've sat at a red light that's somehow stayed red for 5 min. Imagine something like that on Montrose, Shepherd, etc? Suddenly any people using sidestreets to try to get around are forced onto the major roads to cross the rail line, creating even more congestion. Not worth it. You could say just take the rail but the stops along a few straight lines aren't all that accessible to most of the population

Do you take the rail?

[KinkaidAlum]

I don't know...after switching my Montrose to downtown commute out to Med Center area to downtown, I'm really starting to think rail down Richmond is just a bad idea.  At least with that design.  Rail down Richmond = horrendous traffic on Richmond and every street that crosses it.  I've sat at a red light that's somehow stayed red for 5 min.  Imagine something like that on Montrose, Shepherd, etc?  Suddenly any people using sidestreets to try to get around are forced onto the major roads to cross the rail line, creating even more congestion.  Not worth it.  You could say just take the rail but the stops along a few straight lines aren't all that accessible to most of the population

 

If you are driving between Med Center area and Downtown and are waiting 5 minutes at a red light because of the light rail, then you're doing it wrong. There are a handful of ways to get between those two area that never cross the tracks... not to mention, you could ride the train.

[Subdude]

The solution is simple, just build a toll road over the top of the railroad track that runs parallel to west 610, it could go from the south loop up to the new toll road that will follow 290.

 

HCTRA floated that idea a few years back but it was quickly shot down. 

 

 

 

"Originally the site of Camp Logan, a training camp for the soldiers of WWI, the property was purchased by the Hogg family and then conveyed to the city at cost in 1925. Under the transfer agreement, the land must be used for park purposes only."

 

That is interesting, but one wonders then how the West Loop got built through part of the park.  If I'm not mistaken, a sliver of land west of the West Loop is technically still part of Memorial Park. 

[samagon]

HCTRA floated that idea a few years back but it was quickly shot down. 

 

heh, well, the iron is hot for striking now, as it were.

 

They (HCTRA) should have plans sitting in attache cases ready to roll after gridlock events like this last weekend to start getting community support. Have everyone say "yes, this is a terrific idea!" then in 2 years when construction starts and they all complain, they'll be reminded that they liked the idea.

[Subdude]

I tend to question whether it's worth doing anything.  Road capacity can only be expanded so much at a reasonable cost, and it might not make sense to design with a view to the occasional gridlock event such as this.  After all, drivers should reasonably expect that the West Loop will be clogged most of the time, and plan routes (the beltway is often a good alternative) and drive times accordingly.  It's painful, but there probably just isn't that much extra capacity to be had in the area.   

[Slick Vik]

I don't know...after switching my Montrose to downtown commute out to Med Center area to downtown, I'm really starting to think rail down Richmond is just a bad idea. At least with that design. Rail down Richmond = horrendous traffic on Richmond and every street that crosses it. I've sat at a red light that's somehow stayed red for 5 min. Imagine something like that on Montrose, Shepherd, etc? Suddenly any people using sidestreets to try to get around are forced onto the major roads to cross the rail line, creating even more congestion. Not worth it. You could say just take the rail but the stops along a few straight lines aren't all that accessible to most of the population

As I've said before some of the most congested areas in the world have light rail, Richmond avenue is not even in the same league.

[musicman]

Why are people still discussing the Richmond Rail?  The METRO board pushed that out so far (past 2024 I think) because of funding issues. Sounding more like it won't happen period.

 

I saw a few weeks ago that the Uptown Mgmt Dist is now actively pursuing bus rapid transit in the Galleria area because METRO dropped the ball there as well.  They are going to use tax reinvestment zone funding for a majority of the project.

[Slick Vik]

Mostly because Slick can't give it up.

I have to admit it is rather amazing that metro was unable to even get started on uptown and university lines since the referendum nearly 10 years ago.

[musicman]

I have to admit it is rather amazing that metro was unable to even get started on uptown and university lines since the referendum nearly 10 years ago.

 

what's worse is that they've spent about 45 million on design and various studies for the galleria line and even more for the richmond line.   all down the drain.