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The Mix: Mixed-Use Project Planned For Two Blocks In Midtown


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12 minutes ago, Triton said:

Video was posted in September 2019. The world kinda changed since then. lol But with the economy clearly booming again, I'm willing to bet this isn't the last we've heard of the Mix.

It’s listed here by JLL as “Midtown 41”, the pdf was uploaded this year.

http://houstoninnovation.resource.jll.com/uploads/1/3/3/1/133109397/mixed_use_development_2021.pdf

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2 hours ago, Triton said:

Video was posted in September 2019. The world kinda changed since then. lol But with the economy clearly booming again, I'm willing to bet this isn't the last we've heard of the Mix.

The economy isn't booming. The stock market is going up because the government is printing and giving away money and people are hurrying to put it into something before it devalues, but the economy isn't booming. 

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6 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

The economy isn't booming. The stock market is going up because the government is printing and giving away money and people are hurrying to put it into something before it devalues, but the economy isn't booming. 

Some people have money piling up and are "investing" in stocks because their normal spending habits have been disrupted.  

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8 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

The economy isn't booming. The stock market is going up because the government is printing and giving away money and people are hurrying to put it into something before it devalues, but the economy isn't booming. 

N

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On 4/7/2021 at 4:26 AM, Urbannizer said:

Looks like plans called for this to start October 2020. 

 

 

Interesting, the brand new restaurant and parking lot still hasn't opened. Would they just demo it to start this or has this been scrapped/held off for a few years. Seems like a waste after spending all that money on the restaurant and paving the lot, even though they restaurant kind of looks like it's made of cardboard. 

I just hope those renters on the back of pearl at the mix know what they might have to deal with if construction starts lol

 

On 4/7/2021 at 10:44 PM, Urbannizer said:

It’s listed here by JLL as “Midtown 41”, the pdf was uploaded this year.

http://houstoninnovation.resource.jll.com/uploads/1/3/3/1/133109397/mixed_use_development_2021.pdf

 

Ah I just noticed it says long term proposed. So probably 3+ years until it starts. It just means it has zoning approved which in houston is like instantly (?) haha. 

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23 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

The economy isn't booming. The stock market is going up because the government is printing and giving away money and people are hurrying to put it into something before it devalues, but the economy isn't booming. 

Then you're not reading the numbers. The economy is most definitely booming and most businesses right now can't keep up with the demand... we are seeing a near record number of 7.4 million job openings.  Forget the government's antics of pumping in billions... People are ready to get out and enjoy life post-covid. You saw nearly 1 million jobs added last month. At our start-up, Joyride.com, we are getting an unprecedented amount of trips just in the past month because people are beginning to actually travel again. Look at the price of oil. The economy is taking off whether it stands in line with certain political views or not... it was due to take off because of the pent-up demand, no matter who became president. I seriously see a lot of projects that were postponed during 2020 due to Covid will come back this year or next.

 

Here are some high frequency indicators because facts matter...

 

Hotel occupancy is skyrocketing upwards:

HotelApr82021.PNG

 

Seating at restaurants:

DinersApr42021.PNG

 

Gasoline supplied is coming back up to 2019 levels:

 

GasolineApr32021.PNG

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Triton said:

Then you're not reading the numbers. The economy is most definitely booming and most businesses right now can't keep up with the demand... we are seeing a near record number of 7.4 million job openings.  Forget the government's antics of pumping in billions... People are ready to get out and enjoy life post-covid. You saw nearly 1 million jobs added last month. At our start-up, Joyride.com, we are getting an unprecedented amount of trips just in the past month because people are beginning to actually travel again. Look at the price of oil. The economy is taking off whether it stands in line with certain political views or not... it was due to take off because of the pent-up demand, no matter who became president. I seriously see a lot of projects that were postponed during 2020 due to Covid will come back this year or next.

 

Here are some high frequency indicators because facts matter...

 

Hotel occupancy is skyrocketing upwards:

HotelApr82021.PNG

 

Seating at restaurants:

DinersApr42021.PNG

 

Gasoline supplied is coming back up to 2019 levels:

 

GasolineApr32021.PNG

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, people are ready to get out and enjoy life. So what? There are still way fewer people than normal out and enjoying life, although Texas is close to normal due to lax restrictions. The fact that the economy is better than it was prior to the pandemic is due to the volume of cash added. You showed me a bunch of graphs that should indicate an economy getting back to where it was, not soaring past it. Certain political views? I don't see this as a political issue. 

 

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In their respective contexts, they're both right. You can say it's "booming," but those numbers are coming from places opening up from the pandemic. That still counts, but to me it comes with a grain of salt. Of course, there's always the whole "booming for who" thing too. Depends on your definition/perspective.

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52 minutes ago, por favor gracias said:

In their respective contexts, they're both right. You can say it's "booming," but those numbers are coming from places opening up from the pandemic. That still counts, but to me it comes with a grain of salt. Of course, there's always the whole "booming for who" thing too. Depends on your definition/perspective.

Yeah it’s a grey area. The economy was roaring in the 20’s but only for a very select few. Things are definitely looking up but but jobs added numbers can be deceiving, a lot of jobs added in recent years have been second and third jobs because peoples primary jobs can’t support them. 

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  • 2 months later...
5 hours ago, arche_757 said:

Oh Midtown… such promise, such disappointment time and again.

I don't understand how midtown isn't crawling with highrises and young professionals. It's right on the metro and in the geographic center of everything important. It seemed like four of five years ago the sky was the limit, but now it seems like developers won't touch midtown with a ten foot poll. 

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8 minutes ago, Valhalla said:

I don't understand how midtown isn't crawling with highrises and young professionals. It's right on the metro and in the geographic center of everything important. It seemed like four of five years ago the sky was the limit, but now it seems like developers won't touch midtown with a ten foot poll. 

It's not the hip cool place anymore, also you'll struggle to got a lot of high earning individuals with the plethora of homeless and that Grey Hound station. 

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Downtown developed a scene for nightlife with the new residential there, so Midtown doesn’t really have that edge on Downtown. Montrose is much better for the restaurant crowd. 
 

The Innovation District should breathe new life into the south end of Midtown.

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1 hour ago, houstontexasjack said:


The Innovation District should breathe new life into the south end of Midtown.

 

I hope so. The Mix has been in the planning stages for more than a decade and the group behind it has decided to give up. It seems like only developers with great knowledge of the Houston market who have been around for some time do well and build here (Hines, Hanover, Mill Creek, Greystar, etc). Nowadays I end up doubting something for Houston- especially when it comes from a new developer because the market is so volatile. The rail line to Midtown/Museum District has so much potential I'm surprised it has not flourished yet.

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I’d say the Greyhound Station plus the inordinate number of homeless/poor outreach organizations plus the high crime rate associated with the nightclub scene all induce a little fear in people when it comes to investing in Midtown.  It’s also not a good look when you’ve regularly got drug pushers setting up shop a block away from Drewery Place.  It dulls the shine of a nice, new development.  All combined, this stunts the growth of the area.

Oh, one more thing:  Midtown has been in the process of upgrading Caroline Street to bolster the east-of-Main part of the neighborhood —for the past FIVE YEARS!  The street is torn up and looks awful.  Time and again this neighborhood has proven it is horrible at executing development/upgrade projects!

Edited by MarathonMan
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Midtown development was really thrown an obstacle when the super block park wasn’t fully realized.  There really isn’t a single cohesive area within Midtown where development could be focused and grown outward.  Perhaps Rice’s ION will fulfill that void?  That said - if you were a developer with financing likely for a large project and Montrose, or “River Oaks” was available... you go where there is money.  

Midtown will come around.  Eventually.    

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8 hours ago, Urbannizer said:

 

I hope so. The Mix has been in the planning stages for more than a decade and the group behind it has decided to give up. It seems like only developers with great knowledge of the Houston market who have been around for some time do well and build here (Hines, Hanover, Mill Creek, Greystar, etc). Nowadays I end up doubting something for Houston- especially when it comes from a new developer because the market is so volatile. The rail line to Midtown/Museum District has so much potential I'm surprised it has not flourished yet.

We've had some successful developments from non-Houston developers like the one on Kirby by Thor Equities as well as developments by Trammell Crow, although they're practically a hometown developer. Probably more I'm not thinking of. This is more of a Midtown problem and a Covid problem. When the Pierce Elevated is demolished and the Southwest Freeway is sunk and the Ion is up and running, then we can give it another go. Right now is not the time.

The big test at this point is if something great can be built at Westheimer and Montrose by Skanska. Lease-up and occupancy at Montrose Collective will be the bellwether. That will tell us how bad the damage is.

 

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17 hours ago, arche_757 said:

Midtown development was really thrown an obstacle when the super block park wasn’t fully realized.  There really isn’t a single cohesive area within Midtown where development could be focused and grown outward.  Perhaps Rice’s ION will fulfill that void?  That said - if you were a developer with financing likely for a large project and Montrose, or “River Oaks” was available... you go where there is money.  

Midtown will come around.  Eventually.    

While I agree, I think the bigger issue with Midtown is basic maintenance. We're wanting so much from Midtown but MMD is horrible at doing the very basics. There needs to be a bigger push to clean up the homeless problem, there are trees that need trimming, sidewalks that need repair, vacant lots that need cleaning, traffic signs knocked over from accidents or whatever. It's really the lack of attention to detail. We can want all the high rises and development we want but if the basics aren't taken care of, this area won't take off. I see East End Management District do a better job keeping their neighborhood in order with less to work with. Any time I've complained about something to MMD, they have a hard time figuring out what the issue is, or the location within Midtown. It blows my mind and makes me wonder if any of the people in the district even live in Houston. 

Edited by j_cuevas713
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On 6/25/2021 at 2:01 AM, j_cuevas713 said:

. It blows my mind and makes me wonder if any of the people in the district even live in Houston. 

none of the ERCOT board lives in Texas, so why would the MM people live here...

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On 6/25/2021 at 2:01 AM, j_cuevas713 said:

While I agree, I think the bigger issue with Midtown is basic maintenance. We're wanting so much from Midtown but MMD is horrible at doing the very basics. There needs to be a bigger push to clean up the homeless problem, there are trees that need trimming, sidewalks that need repair, vacant lots that need cleaning, traffic signs knocked over from accidents or whatever. It's really the lack of attention to detail. We can want all the high rises and development we want but if the basics aren't taken care of, this area won't take off. I see East End Management District do a better job keeping their neighborhood in order with less to work with. Any time I've complained about something to MMD, they have a hard time figuring out what the issue is, or the location within Midtown. It blows my mind and makes me wonder if any of the people in the district even live in Houston. 

This is a problem all over Houston. Aside from Main St, Dallas St, Post Oak Blvd and recent landscaping improvements on parts of Richmond Ave, our major thoroughfares are largely neglected. If we just spent the money we wasted repaving roads that haven't had a pothole in decades (like Westheimer and Highway 6 right now around Bellaire/Beechnut) or those giant poles they're putting all over town that hold our traffic signals, our street grid in parts of downtown and midtown could be in much better shape. Just basic on and off road maintenance that is so desperately needed on our streets themselves...all those things you mentioned and lane/crosswalk striping and better signage are glaring needs here. It's like someone in the giant pole industry knows someone who works w/ COH...so this is what we get. I'm sure the tourists are lining up for that experience. SMH...I'm starting to think some of our management districts are run by Oakland A's fans.

Most of the streets in midtown are also too wide and limit options for development and landscaping. 

Not sure what the solution is to the homeless problem in midtown, but I am open to the idea of relocating the concentration of shelters in the area.

I'd be willing to bet these are the biggest reasons why some of these developers are pulling out of midtown. It has so much potential, but it will only be reached incrementally unless/until this changes. Hopefully, the Pierce Elevated and submerging 59 will also happen sooner than later.

Edited by por favor gracias
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On 6/26/2021 at 5:46 PM, por favor gracias said:

This is a problem all over Houston. Aside from Main St, Dallas St, Post Oak Blvd and recent landscaping improvements on parts of Richmond Ave, our major thoroughfares are largely neglected. If we just spent the money we wasted repaving roads that haven't had a pothole in decades (like Westheimer and Highway 6 right now around Bellaire/Beechnut) or those giant poles they're putting all over town that hold our traffic signals, our street grid in parts of downtown and midtown could be in much better shape. Just basic on and off road maintenance that is so desperately needed on our streets themselves...all those things you mentioned and lane/crosswalk striping and better signage are glaring needs here. It's like someone in the giant pole industry knows someone who works w/ COH...so this is what we get. I'm sure the tourists are lining up for that experience. SMH...I'm starting to think some of our management districts are run by Oakland A's fans.

Most of the streets in midtown are also too wide and limit options for development and landscaping. 

Not sure what the solution is to the homeless problem in midtown, but I am open to the idea of relocating the concentration of shelters in the area.

I'd be willing to bet these are the biggest reasons why some of these developers are pulling out of midtown. It has so much potential, but it will only be reached incrementally unless/until this changes. Hopefully, the Pierce Elevated and submerging 59 will also happen sooner than later.

Bagby is a great example of what to do with the streets in Midtown. Reduce the lanes, expanded sidewalks, street parking, Bagby has it all. 

As for the Homeless, unless we open up rehab or more state mental institutions again, I think they're here to stay. 

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11 hours ago, Montrose1100 said:

Bagby is a great example of what to do with the streets in Midtown. Reduce the lanes, expanded sidewalks, street parking, Bagby has it all. 

As for the Homeless, unless we open up rehab or more state mental institutions again, I think they're here to stay. 

I just got back from San Francisco and we simply need better wider sidewalks across the entire city. SF felt like an urban dream. 

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37 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

I just got back from San Francisco and we simply need better wider sidewalks across the entire city. SF felt like an urban dream. 

"Urban dream?" Yeah, I guess that's why the people who actually live there are leaving. Good grief.

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2 hours ago, arbpro said:

"Urban dream?" Yeah, I guess that's why the people who actually live there are leaving. Good grief.

So what exactly about my comment didn't you seem to understand? Yeah the cost of living is high because SF is literally 49 square miles with limited space. I'm speaking on the density, transit, and pedestrian focus the city has. It's attention to detail and it's ability to efficiently move people. Again we simply need wider sidewalks and more focus on pedestrians. Good grief. 

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San Francisco has grown by about 100,000 people in the last decade. Pretty amazing considering there's nowhere to go but up and SF is full of NIMBYs. 

Now, metro SF did lose population last year (less than .5% loss) but the city itself grew. Very similar to other metro areas in California wherein cities continued to grow but exurbs so  population loss.

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7 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

So what exactly about my comment didn't you seem to understand? Yeah the cost of living is high because SF is literally 49 square miles with limited space. I'm speaking on the density, transit, and pedestrian focus the city has. It's attention to detail and it's ability to efficiently move people. Again we simply need wider sidewalks and more focus on pedestrians. Good grief. 

Wider sidewalks? Nonsense. 

A 2021 poll of Harris County residents found that the issues of concern were crime, flooding, failing public schools, homeless, traffic congestion, access to health care. There was not any mention of the need for wider sidewalks. Well, except from you.  

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11 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

I just got back from San Francisco and we simply need better wider sidewalks across the entire city. SF felt like an urban dream. 

Urban dream? I've heard numerous accounts that SF has in large quantity, fecal matter, urine smell, trash, vagrants, and pick pockets. It has natural beauty and some great architecture but I don't think that's enough to cancel the negatives. It sounds like a disgrace of a city more than an urban dream, especially if your middle class or have children.

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10 hours ago, KinkaidAlum said:

San Francisco has grown by about 100,000 people in the last decade. Pretty amazing considering there's nowhere to go but up and SF is full of NIMBYs. 

Now, metro SF did lose population last year (less than .5% loss) but the city itself grew. Very similar to other metro areas in California wherein cities continued to grow but exurbs so  population loss.

San Francisco grew by 61,000 in the past decade but lost 12,000 from July 1 2019- July 1, 2020.

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2 hours ago, Twinsanity02 said:

Urban dream? I've heard numerous accounts that SF has in large quantity, fecal matter, urine smell, trash, vagrants, and pick pockets. It has natural beauty and some great architecture but I don't think that's enough to cancel the negatives. It sounds like a disgrace of a city more than an urban dream, especially if your middle class or have children.

Not even close to that. I'd heard the same and had to see it for myself. There were very few homeless, very little trash anywhere to be honest. The city was super clean. It has much more than just "some" natural beauty, it's freaking gorgeous. Even the grand entrance on the Golden Gate Bridge made you feel like you were entering a very special place. Literally every building in SF was beautiful. I actually had a hard time finding an ugly building. And the urbanism was great. Easy to catch transit in any direction. Super reliable and frequent. The ONLY negative is it get's cold. Mid day it will get in the 80s but morning and at night it get's pretty damn cold. 

Edited by j_cuevas713
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4 hours ago, arbpro said:

Wider sidewalks? Nonsense. 

A 2021 poll of Harris County residents found that the issues of concern were crime, flooding, failing public schools, homeless, traffic congestion, access to health care. There was not any mention of the need for wider sidewalks. Well, except from you.  

LMAO! You're trying to relate two completely different things. Of course residents in our city want less crime, and less traffic. As far as city infrastructure the residents have already said they want a more walkable Houston. Otherwise they wouldn't have approved a massive transit bill. You're naive to think this city doesn't want to be able to walk more. Why would the city even invest in new sidewalks and infrastructure upgrades if people didn't want it? You think we all just want to be in our cars all day? 

Edited by j_cuevas713
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15 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

I just got back from San Francisco and we simply need better wider sidewalks across the entire city. SF felt like an urban dream. 

Polk St/ The Tenderloin is anything but an urban dream. That’s urban decay. I love SF but like every city, it undeniably has its own issues. 

Sidewalks work there when you have the microclimate to keep things cool and comfortable. Here in Houston, not so much. Also there is the fact that the peninsula is only 49 square miles compared to our sprawling city.

What I would like to take from SF is implementing Muni trains on heavier trafficked thoroughfares inside the loop like Montrose, Westheimer, Shephard/Durham, etc. Not sure how much cost savings there are from repurposing old trains from Eastern Europe but it could be a cheaper way to get more mass transit routes.

Edited by tigereye
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3 minutes ago, tigereye said:

Polk St/ The Tenderloin is anything but an urban dream. That’s urban decay. I love SF but like every city, it undeniably has its own issues. 

Sidewalks work there when you have the microclimate to keep things cool and comfortable. Here in Houston, not so much. Also there is the fact that the peninsula is only 49 square miles compared to our sprawling city.

What I would like to take from SF is implementing Muni trains on heavier trafficked thoroughfares inside the loop like Montrose, Westheimer, Shephard/Durham, etc. Not sure if how much cost savings there are from repurposing old trains from Eastern Europe but it could be a cheaper way to get more mass transit routes.

See I like that input. We can def agree to disagree but we for sure can take some lessons from San Fran. I would love to see that on our busy thoroughfares. I still believe that if you provide good walkability, people will walk. But just imagine a city of our size, fully walkable. Yeah Tenderloin might have been their worst neighborhood. 

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5 hours ago, arbpro said:

Wider sidewalks? Nonsense. 

A 2021 poll of Harris County residents found that the issues of concern were crime, flooding, failing public schools, homeless, traffic congestion, access to health care. There was not any mention of the need for wider sidewalks. Well, except from you.  

The concerns of Harris County are not necessarily the same among all of its residents. People who live in Champion Forest are probably less likely to put a high priority on sidewalks and the homeless, whereas people living in Midtown and Montrose may be indifferent to traffic congestion on freeways. 
To suggest that a poll of Harris County residents is representative of all of them, or that @j_cuevas713is alone in desiring a livable urban environment (including wider sidewalks) is absurd.

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20 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

I still believe that if you provide good walkability, people will walk. 

This has pretty much been proven in areas of our city like Rice Village, downtown. City Centre, and parts of Midtown, the Heights, etc. Also the popularity of Buffalo Bayou park has shown that people like walking in Houston, even in its most humid spot.

 

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3 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

This has pretty much been proven in areas of our city like Rice Village, downtown. City Centre, and parts of Midtown, the Heights, etc. Also the popularity of Buffalo Bayou park has shown that people like walking in Houston, even in its most humid spot.

 

Exactly. 

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3 hours ago, arche_757 said:

The argument that it’s hot so we cannot walk here must somehow not apply to: Jakarta, Bangkok, Beijing, Shanghai, Mumbai, Cairo, Lagos etc.  Yes, I realize our style of living here in America is different, but I’ve really grown weary of the absurd “its  too hot to walk in Houston” argument.  No hotter than New Orleans, or Miami or Atlanta… we are cooler than Phoenix, and Vegas (and Portland right now 😬)!   
 

Much of China has incredibly hot summers.  Shanghai (for instance) right now has pretty much the exact same weather we’re having.  Down to the dew point!

The argument usually goes that Houstonians are accustomed to a certain standard of living that is different than other cities. Although the example of New Orleans probably sufficiently beats this argument. I've heard it said, "Well, New Orleans is just uniquely special" in a way that Houston cannot replicate, but this was basically a white flag - obviously if Houston designed public spaces better, it could be "special" too. Tory Gattis was pushing these arguments for awhile, although I think he has backed off since the success of downtown as a walking neighborhood.

 

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I think there is merit to the idea that “if you build it, they will come”, at least in the sense that providing BETTER walking areas = higher usage potential.  If our sidewalks were better - more people would feel inclined to use them.  Sadly, I’ve driven my family (young kids) around what I otherwise would have traversed by foot because the sidewalks were either absent, or looked a hot mess.  I’m glad we are evolving!  It has been long overdue.

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totally interesting article that is completely unrelated to having a car centric society...

https://www.everydayhealth.com/news/are-we-fat-think/

I wonder if anything has changed in 7 years?

I will say that tolerating the heat has a lot to do with acclimation. I can't expect to decide to start walking at 5 pm on August 1st. if I've been walking every day from April through July, my body will probably be accustomed to that, but it's a mighty shock to the system to just decide to go for a walk on the hottest days of summer.

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According to US Census, SF had 805,150 residents in April 2010. Current estimates for 2021 by world population stats lists SF with 893,589 residents. It's a shame 2020 numbers will be so off with an administration that ended the Census early and took no effort in accommodating the pandemic in trying to get an accurate numbers. Cities will suffer big time over the next decade with massive undercounts. 

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8 hours ago, KinkaidAlum said:

According to US Census, SF had 805,150 residents in April 2010. Current estimates for 2021 by world population stats lists SF with 893,589 residents. It's a shame 2020 numbers will be so off with an administration that ended the Census early and took no effort in accommodating the pandemic in trying to get an accurate numbers. Cities will suffer big time over the next decade with massive undercounts. 

FWIW, without a link to see the "world population stats" you are quoting, they are almost certainly based on a projection of (now outdated) census estimates.  According to the US Census, July 1 estimated population of San Francisco was 866,606.

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