EMES Place- Inner Loop Condos Development On Frasier St.

[SilverJK]

I think the mix up of information here is the Buffalo Bayou would benefit from the removal of concrete sides and being altered back to the more original meandering path. This is all part of the buffalo bayou project (and is explained in their little advertisement documentary). Not all bayous are the same... buffalo bayou needs to be slowed down, white oak is a completely different scenario (size, elevation change, input field, etc.).

[Angostura]

I'd be willing to bet that San Jacinto Stone is not long for this world. The land is appraised at $3.7 million, and the tax bill is $11,000 per year. It is also currently delinquent. Between the stone company and the houses behind it, there is an entire block of 4.5 acres available. San Jacinto could easily sell the land, move the company to Hempstead Highway with the other stone companies, and we'll be discussing the newest shopping center on Yale & Koehler..

Prescient, or insider info?

http://swamplot.com/the-shops-replacing-san-jacinto-stone-just-north-of-the-south-of-the-heights-walmart/2012-09-18/

[RedScare]

Prescient, but damned impressive to predict it just 3 days before it made the news, if I do say so myself! When I saw the tax bill was unpaid, I actually wondered if it was already being sold, and the owners were letting the buyers take care of it. But, in reality, once the land around it began to be developed, the value as a stone yard had to drop in relation to its value for a retail development. This one was too easy to call.

[fwki]

The east side of Heights Blvd is starting to look shabby by comparison.....wonder what the tax bills look like there?

[s3mh]

Prescient, but damned impressive to predict it just 3 days before it made the news, if I do say so myself! When I saw the tax bill was unpaid, I actually wondered if it was already being sold, and the owners were letting the buyers take care of it. But, in reality, once the land around it began to be developed, the value as a stone yard had to drop in relation to its value for a retail development. This one was too easy to call.

Ainbinder was supposed to develop most of that land but backed off when they decided to drop a mixed use development for a big box anchored strip mall. The value of that property as a stone yard began to drop in relation to retail when the I-10 feeder work was announced long ago. I actually think that you may see something go in on the other side of the I-10 feeder before the SJ Stone site gets developed. Many pretty pictures were drawn of the Ainbinder/Orr site before they came up with their strip malls.

[fwki]

Ainbinder was supposed to develop most of that land but backed off when they decided to drop a mixed use development for a big box anchored strip mall.

Wait a second, Ainbinder was supposed to develop SJ Stone? Source please.

The value of that property as a stone yard began to drop in relation to retail when the I-10 feeder work was announced long ago.

Speculation? Source please.

Many pretty pictures were drawn of the Ainbinder/Orr site before they came up with their strip malls.

Wait a second, Orr just does strip malls http://www.orrcommercial.com/development/ ....Do you have a link to the Orr pictures?

[JJxvi]

lmao

[JJxvi]

Prescient, but damned impressive to predict it just 3 days before it made the news, if I do say so myself! When I saw the tax bill was unpaid, I actually wondered if it was already being sold, and the owners were letting the buyers take care of it. But, in reality, once the land around it began to be developed, the value as a stone yard had to drop in relation to its value for a retail development. This one was too easy to call.

I wonder what the potential value of a large off freeway site like the Tommie Vaughn Ford site is right now (or in the near future).

[s3mh]

Wait a second, Ainbinder was supposed to develop SJ Stone? Source please.

Speculation? Source please.

Wait a second, Orr just does strip malls http://www.orrcommer...om/development/ ....Do you have a link to the Orr pictures?

Early submittals to the City from Ainbinder were for a mixed use development and showed parts of the SJ Stone property as part of the development. The impetus for all the development along Yale and Heights has been the new feeder.

Orr had fancy plans that were ditched when the economy went bust. Here is what it could have been:

http://swamplot.com/heights-village-parking-lots-are-the-new-main-street/2007-12-13/

[s3mh]

I wonder what the potential value of a large off freeway site like the Tommie Vaughn Ford site is right now (or in the near future).

It is more value to Tommie Vaughn right now and for the immediate future. They are throwing down some serious money for a new showroom:

http://www.chron.com/business/article/At-dealerships-it-s-not-just-vehicles-that-are-3831978.php

In good times, Ford dealerships print money in Houston.

I do wonder whether any development will go forward north of Tommie Vaughn and take out the tote the note dealerships. There are already a few parcels available.

[fwki]

Early submittals to the City from Ainbinder were for a mixed use development and showed parts of the SJ Stone property as part of the development. The impetus for all the development along Yale and Heights has been the new feeder.

Yes, without the feeder, very difficult to develop to this scale, but somebody had to go first and it wasn't going to be a going-concern like SJ Stone. I bet they really cash-in now.

Orr had fancy plans that were ditched when the economy went bust. Here is what it could have been:

http://swamplot.com/...eet/2007-12-13/

I remember seeing that mock-up now.....Rice Epicurean was going in there or something...funny though when you look at the plat without the picture, it screams strip mall.

[samagon]

Yes, without the feeder, very difficult to develop to this scale, but somebody had to go first and it wasn't going to be a going-concern like SJ Stone. I bet they really cash-in now.

I remember seeing that mock-up now.....Rice Epicurean was going in there or something...funny though when you look at the plat without the picture, it screams strip mall.

It is a strip mall, just two of them backed up to each other.

the artists renditions aren't anything more than gussied up 2 story strip malls, here's what the real thing probably would have looked like had they gone through with it:

https://maps.google.com/?ll=29.703356,-95.613093&spn=0.000589,0.000817&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=29.703356,-95.613093&panoid=yhh9OvXewloVl6ucEZtjVg&cbp=12,211.68,,0,-0.89

[JJxvi]

That Orr render is on a different piece of property. That strip center that they are building now (or rather, have already built) is on the piece of land where there is a 20,000 SF leased space marked on the map in theswamplot aticle.

The piece with frontage on both Heights and Yale that they planned to build that center on is where apartments are currently under construction south of the strip center site. I dont believe Orr owns or ever owned the plot that had the old apartments on it before which is on the backside (the Heights frontage side) of the strip center that they built. Thus the current srip center location could not have had frontage on Heights like those renderings show.

Frankly that whole site plan on swamplot may have been a bit of a pipedream anyway since they show a center with frontage on both Heights AND Yale just north of the RR tracks but Yale is inaccessible due the underground grade separation thats occuring on the Yale side of that property.

[JJxvi]

I do wonder whether any development will go forward north of Tommie Vaughn and take out the tote the note dealerships. There are already a few parcels available.

Sadly, unlike the TV location there are none with any size to handle my N Shepherd version of West Ave. pipe dream...

[fwki]

Well, the original post states that it was set for final approval yesterday, and I see no posts crowing about defeating the evil developers, so I can only assume that it passed. Can we hope that the opponents have learned from RUDH's spectacular failure, and will engage the developer to design the project to enhance the neighborhood?

Probably not. The art of compromise is a lost one.

I just saw this from last week: http://ataps1.pd.ci....tion Agenda.pdf

Application withdrawn after Planning Commision Set forth the following:

Conditions and requirements for approval

088. Minimum reserve size shall be 5000 square feet having 60' frontage along at least one public street with a

right-of-way not less than 60 feet. (192)

Extend E. 5th Avnue or terminate it with a cul-de-sac.

EDIT: Looks like CoH wants them to mimic the E 4-1/2 St Cul-de-sac for access. Freeland streets will remain barren, but I don't like the chances for the overgrown ditch remaining in its current state.

[Angostura]

Orr had fancy plans that were ditched when the economy went bust. Here is what it could have been:

http://swamplot.com/...eet/2007-12-13/

So..... a strip mall with brick façade and random pedestrians? I guess all those vagrants and panhandlers in the renderings will be in the Walmart parking lot now instead.

[s3mh]

So..... a strip mall with brick façade and random pedestrians? I guess all those vagrants and panhandlers in the renderings will be in the Walmart parking lot now instead.

Did you even look at the renderings in the article? I actually remember when this was first floated. They were going to have residential along the Heights side and retail on the Yale side. If it makes you happy to call that a strip mall when no one else would, then go for it.

[JJxvi]

Did you even look at the renderings in the article? I actually remember when this was first floated. They were going to have residential along the Heights side and retail on the Yale side. If it makes you happy to call that a strip mall when no one else would, then go for it.

If thats true, then its another example of that site plan being a pipe dream. Look at the site on swamplot. The part the says "20,000 SF Leased space" is the tract where the current strip center sits. Orr does not own the Heights frontage there. The parcel that they previously owned where this rendering was supposed to be is bounded by the railroad tracks to the south. THERE IS NO YALE FRONTAGE for your supposed commercial frontage along Yale. Yale is underground at that point. Ainbender has commercial along Yale at that same point and it faces inward toward WalMart because there is no street for it to front at ground level.

Orr sold that piece to Wood who is developing Alta Heights apartments. (ie if you are paying attention, the site talked about in swaplot is currently being developed as mixed use...commercial by Orr and residential by Wood Group.

[RedScare]

Did you even look at the renderings in the article? I actually remember when this was first floated. They were going to have residential along the Heights side and retail on the Yale side. If it makes you happy to call that a strip mall when no one else would, then go for it.

Orr sold that piece to Wood who is developing Alta Heights apartments. (ie if you are paying attention, the site talked about in swaplot is currently being developed as mixed use...commercial by Orr and residential by Wood Group.

So, if I understand s3mh correctly, he was for residential facings Heights with retail facing Yale before he was against it.

[JJxvi]

I do like how RUDH has been pushed and prodded back to where their stated goals no longer reflect their ridiculous "mixed use, pedestrian, blah blah" stuff and now shows them for who we knew they were all along...

"We are a community organization devoted to preserving the character, traditions, and appearance of the Heights and West End neighborhoods in Houston."

[JJxvi]

This very thread is in opposition to a higher density residential tract within walking distance of commercial at Sawyer Heights and directly oriented along a pedestrian pathway.

[s3mh]

Orr sold that piece to Wood who is developing Alta Heights apartments. (ie if you are paying attention, the site talked about in swaplot is currently being developed as mixed use...commercial by Orr and residential by Wood Group.

A strip mall next to an apartment box may count as mixed use in Houston, but everywhere else in the development world would laugh at that statement. The fact is that the Ainbider/Orr/Wood/yale market developments will take up almost 40 acres inside the loop in a prime location and will offer no commercial space and will result in just about no net gain in residential housing (Heights Plaza had @200+ units, the new apartments will have 280). That kind of land use is just fine for the burbs where there are acres and acres of cheap land for housing. But, inside the loop, that is a major waste of space to tie up almost 40 acres with single story strip malls and big boxes. The result is that developers will be forced to try to shoe horn apartment complexes into single family residential neighborhoods like they are doing with Emes Place.

[Heightsite]

Dear _______,

The applicant has withdrawn their application from the Planning Commission’s agenda. They intend to file a new application October 1^st to be placed on the October 11^th agenda. The new application will request to take access from 5^th street and include the following variances from Chapter 42.

1. To allow a reserve to have less than 60 feet of frontage on a public street.

2. To allow a private street to be a direct extension of a public street.

3. Not to extend or provide a cul-de-sac for 5^th street.

In consideration of granting the variances, staff will have limited flexibility to recommend to the Planning Commission conditions on the variance, i.e. maximum number of units, maximum height, speed cushion on 5^th street. Property owners within 250 feet of the project and 500 feet along 5^th Street will receive written notice and a sign will be posted on 5^th Street.

Sincerely,

Suzy Hartgrove, Public Affairs Manager, CPM

City of Houston Planning & Development Department

611 Walker, 6th Floor, Houston TX 77002, 713-837-7719

www.houstonplanning.com

Suzy.Hartgrove@houstontx.gov

[fwki]

I do like how RUDH has been pushed and prodded back to where their stated goals no longer reflect their ridiculous "mixed use, pedestrian, blah blah" stuff and now shows them for who we knew they were all along...

Yeah, impotent and now irrelevant. That's the inevitable result of duplicity and hidden agendas. HAHC take note.

[JJxvi]

That kind of land use is just fine for the burbs where there are acres and acres of cheap land for housing.

The problem is this land isnt as valuable as you think it is (or certainly not yet) or else you would be right (for once). If the land was not cheap enough to build this kind of development, then this kind of development wouldnt be built, if it was expensive enough to support extremely high mixed use density (and if the site was conducive, which it isnt) then that would have been built. Land values and desirability is higher around the high end residential areas, ergo developers want to build high density along the major streets in those areas. Developers do not need to waste money trying to fill up high density commercial and residential on 40 acres of bombed out industrial and empty brownfield when they can buy the whiole site for cheap and develop it all.

[SilverJK]

But, inside the loop, that is a major waste of space to tie up almost 40 acres with single story strip malls and big boxes. The result is that developers will be forced to try to shoe horn apartment complexes into single family residential neighborhoods like they are doing with Emes Place.

So it is too spread out... forcing other areas to shoe horn (be more dense) and you don't want either?? Emes Place is like shoehorning a size 5 shoe into a canoe. It is barely even near single family residential, next to other multifamily residential, and a lumber yard. Yet again you simply ignore the truth, and try to pass your opinions as the gospel truth. In my opinion, Emes Place is simply put, one of the best locations in the entire city to build a multi family. Great views or the city that most likely will never be blocked due to parks and highways, ease of access (close to I-10) and if they go from 5 1/2 street even FreeLand Historically Whiny Neighborhood won't be bothered by a few hundred more cars passing per day, and being right on an excellent walk/bike path that connects to downtown (eventually most of town). Sounds great to me.

Calling the almost 40 acres a major waste of space is also just your distorted utopian neighborhood view again...

[TMoore]

Emes Place has withdrawn their request for access on Frasier/Granberry and now trying yet again to enter/exit on 5th Street after being denied several years ago as they were unable to meet conditions required. So we should ask, what has changed since? If Chapter 42 is our guide for land use in our city why should they receive variances?

Below is a letter from Suzy Hartgrove, Public Affairs Manager:

The applicant has withdrawn their application from the Planning Commission’s agenda. They intend to file a new application October 1^st to be placed on the October 11^th agenda. The new application will request to take access from 5^th street and include the following variances from Chapter 42.

1. To allow a reserve to have less than 60 feet of frontage on a public street.

2. To allow a private street to be a direct extension of a public street.

3. Not to extend or provide a cul-de-sac for 5^th street.

In consideration of granting the variances, staff will have limited flexibility to recommend to the Planning Commission conditions on the variance, i.e. maximum number of units, maximum height, speed cushion on 5^th street. Property owners within 250 feet of the project and 500 feet along 5^th Street will receive written notice and a sign will be posted on 5^th Street.

Sincerely,

Suzy Hartgrove, Public Affairs Manager, CPM

[s3mh]

So it is too spread out... forcing other areas to shoe horn (be more dense) and you don't want either?? Emes Place is like shoehorning a size 5 shoe into a canoe. It is barely even near single family residential, next to other multifamily residential, and a lumber yard. Yet again you simply ignore the truth, and try to pass your opinions as the gospel truth. In my opinion, Emes Place is simply put, one of the best locations in the entire city to build a multi family. Great views or the city that most likely will never be blocked due to parks and highways, ease of access (close to I-10) and if they go from 5 1/2 street even FreeLand Historically Whiny Neighborhood won't be bothered by a few hundred more cars passing per day, and being right on an excellent walk/bike path that connects to downtown (eventually most of town). Sounds great to me.

Calling the almost 40 acres a major waste of space is also just your distorted utopian neighborhood view again...

Rents in Houston have climbed rapidly over the past few years as demand for apartments have outstripped new units coming on line. Rents are starting to reach a threshold that takes Houston to a level of cost of living that is more in line with big cities in the East and West. Sure, Houston has great restaurants, mild winters, and so on and so forth. But Houston's real edge in competing against other cities for big employers is Houston's low cost of living. A large mixed use development over almost 40 acres could have easily provided 800-1500 additional rental housing units or condos while still providing the same amount of retail space. The current building boom in multi-family housing is not sufficient to meet the growing demand. And there is a rapidly diminishing supply of available land inside the loop west of downtown that could make up for the housing that is lost by strip malling up almost 40 acres of prime real estate. The distorted utopian view is the idea that the magical market fairy will make everything right and that there are no consequences and externalities in land use decisions.

[samagon]

Emes Place has withdrawn their request for access on Frasier/Granberry and now trying yet again to enter/exit on 5th Street after being denied several years ago as they were unable to meet conditions required. So we should ask, what has changed since?

Just a wild guess, but there's a lot more demand in the area for housing, so they can easily sell the added investment requirement since they'll get it back with higher rents on the other side?

Rents in Houston have climbed rapidly over the past few years as demand for apartments have outstripped new units coming on line. Rents are starting to reach a threshold that takes Houston to a level of cost of living that is more in line with big cities in the East and West.

Not. even. close.

I'm not even sure how you can possibly even believe this. You've got to be trolling.

http://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-houston-rent-trends/

As of August, 2012, average apartment rent within 10 miles of Houston, TX is $1236.

One bedroom apartments in Houston rent for $1176 a month on average and two bedroom apartment rents average $1406.

http://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-los-angeles-rent-trends/

As of August, 2012, average apartment rent within 10 miles of Los Angeles, CA is $1552.

One bedroom apartments in Los Angeles rent for $1346 a month on average and two bedroom apartment rents average $1808.

http://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-san-francisco-rent-trends/

As of August, 2012, average apartment rent within 10 miles of San Francisco, CA is $2106.

One bedroom apartments in San Francisco rent for $1845 a month on average and two bedroom apartment rents average $2364.

http://www.rentjungle.com/average-rent-in-new-york-rent-trends/

As of August, 2012, average apartment rent within 10 miles of New York, NY is $2953.

One bedroom apartments in New York rent for $2568 a month on average and two bedroom apartment rents average $3187.

hell, even if $1200 a month was even comparable to $1550 ($350 a month is a nice chunk of spare change), it certainly isn't comparable with $2100 or even $2950. but besides all that, gasoline, groceries, taxes, they are all SIGNIFICANTLY less in Houston compared to other locations, and even if the rent was comparable, this would be enough to keep Houston cost of living low.

[JJxvi]

I think 800-1500 high density apartment units would change the character, traditions and appareance of the Heights.[/smirk]