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East River: KBR Site Puchased by Midway


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Phase I is underway, here's our first look:       More renderings can be found in the brochure below:   https://images1.loopnet.com/d2/2hO8ds_6cesMWwAvCHKLz8FOD

One of the buildings at KBR that faces downtown. Really visible from afar.   

Finally an update (from HBJ):   A spokeswoman for Midway said in an email that the company is in discussions with the city of Houston about how the project will be delivered over the next se

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18 hours ago, tigereye said:

 

This is what I was thinking when I first read the article today. Coincidental timing of this announcement? 

 

This site is 136 acres, AstroWorld was only 57 acres IIRC. Could work and tie with BBP bayou trail efforts. 

 

keep in mind the 57 acres was all park area, parking wasn't included. to have a decent sized park you'd have to build a parking structure on this much land.

 

If an amusement park, if it were me, I'd give 4 billion to Disney to build a theme park there. Imagine the taxes we'd make on 365 days of car rental tax and hotel guest tax. Not to mention restaurants, etc. I mean, we dumped ~500 million into a football stadium that gets used maybe 45 days a year. Let's spend 8x the money on something that will be used 8x as often. keep in mind, shanghai disney just cost 3.7 billion to build, so it's not like we'd be giving them free money, we'd be giving them the same deal we did with the users of the football stadium.

 

As awesome as an amusement park would be (and good proximity to two airports, and the scenic ship channel), I just don't see that happening. (even without the county giving whoever the same deal they'd give a football owner).

 

The best solution would be to offer all of NRG (parking lots, everything), including the old Astroworld site to Disney along with 4 billion, the only stipulation being that they have to incorporate the astrodome into whatever they build. give the rodeo the KBR site. so many problems solved!

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18 hours ago, tigereye said:

 

This is what I was thinking when I first read the article today. Coincidental timing of this announcement? 

 

This site is 136 acres, AstroWorld was only 57 acres IIRC. Could work and tie with BBP bayou trail efforts. 

 

Astroworld was 104 acres, and as Samagon pointed out above, that was all amusement park; that 104 acres included no parking.

 

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49 minutes ago, samagon said:

 

If an amusement park, if it were me, I'd give 4 billion to Disney to build a theme park there. Imagine the taxes we'd make on 365 days of car rental tax and hotel guest tax. Not to mention restaurants, etc. I mean, we dumped ~500 million into a football stadium that gets used maybe 45 days a year. Let's spend 8x the money on something that will be used 8x as often. keep in mind, shanghai disney just cost 3.7 billion to build, so it's not like we'd be giving them free money, we'd be giving them the same deal we did with the users of the football stadium.

 

As awesome as an amusement park would be (and good proximity to two airports, and the scenic ship channel), I just don't see that happening. (even without the county giving whoever the same deal they'd give a football owner).

 

The best solution would be to offer all of NRG (parking lots, everything), including the old Astroworld site to Disney along with 4 billion, the only stipulation being that they have to incorporate the astrodome into whatever they build. give the rodeo the KBR site. so many problems solved!

 

There is so much wrong with this post... but let's just start here:  Taxpayer portion of NRG Stadium was in the neighborhood of $287 Million, not even close to $500 Million.  (The stadium did not even cost $500 Million).

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1 hour ago, Montrose1100 said:

What kind of tax income would the city get on a theme park versus a mixed use site? Which would raise the property values more? Serious question.

 

Densely developed mixed use generates far more revenue than a theme park. Theme parks generally go for the cheapest land they can find that has good transportation access. Think of Splashtown buying land up in Spring off I-45 in the late 80's, when there was virtually nothing between The Woodlands and 1960.

 

This will not be a theme park. A more plausible idea is that it could be a theme/festival center similar to Faneuil Hall or Navy Pier. But I think it is too far from downtown. Something like that would have to be walking distance. I don't see tourism for this site, with so much more viable land along the bayou downtown and with the possible North Canal.

 

I see this as high quality neighborhood mixed use, not as retail-driven as Regent Square, more quiet with classy residences and modest office space that blend with the bayou park and have a strong nature and eco theme. Maybe instead of GreenStreet, GreenPark. Great place for a romantic date, away from the downtown noise. The new engagement spot after Vargo's.

 

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16 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

 

Densely developed mixed use generates far more revenue than a theme park. Theme parks generally go for the cheapest land they can find that has good transportation access. Think of Splashtown buying land up in Spring off I-45 in the late 80's, when there was virtually nothing between The Woodlands and 1960.

 

This will not be a theme park. A more plausible idea is that it could be a theme/festival center similar to Faneuil Hall or Navy Pier. But I think it is too far from downtown. Something like that would have to be walking distance. I don't see tourism for this site, with so much more viable land along the bayou downtown and with the possible North Canal.

 

I see this as high quality neighborhood mixed use, not as retail-driven as Regent Square, more quiet with classy residences and modest office space that blend with the bayou park and have a strong nature and eco theme. Maybe instead of GreenStreet, GreenPark. Great place for a romantic date, away from the downtown noise. The new engagement spot after Vargo's.

 

The views 4 floors and up would be spectacular.

 

I really hope this lot doesn't become a theme park. What a waste of money for the bayou park to be spruced up only to have a barbed wire fence running alongside. 

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I didn't think you could drive personal watercraft through certain parts of the ship channel? If so, it would be an inland marina isolated from open waters.

It would be nice for Midway to work with BBP to get some sort of water taxi/bayou boat service between KBR and Allens Landing though..

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I don't know if they had to get special permission but during the Super Bowl  several fairly large outboards came up from the bay and docked at Allen's Landing. They said they had to work with the tides but mentioned no special permitting. The boaters said they came up to have drinks in Market Square.

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Heh. Maybe they should just use the Hermann Park golf course for an amusement park. It's about 125 acres in a centralized location with great access to transit. ;) Slightly more on topic, the good news for redevelopment of this lot is that Clinton Drive may be repaved to where it doesn't feel like a 4x4 Wrangler is a necessity.

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9 hours ago, The Pragmatist said:

Heh. Maybe they should just use the Hermann Park golf course for an amusement park. It's about 125 acres in a centralized location with great access to transit. ;) Slightly more on topic, the good news for redevelopment of this lot is that Clinton Drive may be repaved to where it doesn't feel like a 4x4 Wrangler is a necessity.

ha, and they don't even need to put in parking, cause there's so much around Hermann park! 

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1 hour ago, Triton said:

The plan is to build an underground parking garage at Hermann Park either way. 

 

About time. Is there anything publicly available with any details on that?

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8 minutes ago, lockmat said:

 

About time. Is there anything publicly available with any details on that?

 

1,200 car underground parking garage. Master plan posted by Mab back in February.

 

 

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1 hour ago, samagon said:

page not found :(

 

are they going to be turning all the surface parking into park with trees and grass and stuff? that will be awesome!

No, it looks like they might be adding even more surface parking, but also, the long term goal (2035) is to build an underground parking garage with trees and grass and stuff on top of it to provide more parking.

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1 hour ago, samagon said:

page not found :(

 

are they going to be turning all the surface parking into park with trees and grass and stuff? that will be awesome!

Yea I posted that in the master plan thread.. was hoping Mab would respond but it looks like Beernut has us.

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  • 2 months later...

they're saying the right things with regards to how it should be developed - historical focus, multi-staged development, mixed income, focus on the bayou. i'd love to finally see something truly innovative for houston on this site. we don't need any highrises here, or at least no more than one or two, and if they do choose that route they better not be beige stucco boxes - they need character. drawing inspiration from dumbo and the meatpacking district is promising.

 

also didn't know harrison stayed on board but that makes sense... he would've lost money on an outright sale and his plan was always long term.

 

here's hoping for the best. midway was a real opportunity to develop a transformative project here.

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31 minutes ago, BTT said:

What part of economic downturn does no one understand?  The developer is actually quoted comparing the site to New York City. 

That's a short term issue. Larger projects such as these usually require long term planning and take many years to unfold. Not too concerned. Besides, unless there's a global recession, chances are 2018 might be the year Houston truly rebounds.

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11 minutes ago, swtsig said:

 

what part of long term, multi-phase development do you not understand? or preliminary stage? or anything else in that entire article?

 

move along.

What part of the costs to carry real estate do you not understand?  Which part of historical amounts of office and multifamily vacancy and supply do you not get?    I would guess your too daft to even understand how much of a failure (economically) City Center was when first developed.  I would also guess you've never left Texas, nor do you understand the impact of land use regulation on the economics of commercial property in this city.  If you believe in this development so much, get out there, start raising money and buy yourself some nice property in the area to benefit from all the value this $3-4 billion project will create.  Or, don't and continue to blog away internet tough guy 

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@BTT what do you propose this site should be used for?  Stating City Center was a failure early on carries little weight when it is repeatedly used as an example of mega successful mixed-use projects.  Several people on this forum are in the industry, so be careful not to lose credibility early on.  There is nothing controversial about this article.

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this property like many others around the downtown freeways (59 and Pierce Elevated) are all in a holding pattern waiting on txDOT to move forward on its downtown freeway circulation plan.  This site is less affected than sites like the post office, but it will still play a major impact on the traffic studies and feasibility for different use cases.

 

Like the article said, this is a fantastic property and we will see development happen.  When that development comes to fruition is contingent on so many external factors that even the developers involved would be stupid to throw out delivery dates.  Now all we need is for someone to sneak into Gensler's or HOK's office and find one of their site massing models for the site.  You know an intern spent their summer on one...... 

 

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3 minutes ago, tangledwoods said:

this property like many others around the downtown freeways (59 and Pierce Elevated) are all in a holding pattern waiting on txDOT to move forward on its downtown freeway circulation plan.  This site is less affected than sites like the post office, but it will still play a major impact on the traffic studies and feasibility for different use cases.

 

Like the article said, this is a fantastic property and we will see development happen.  When that development comes to fruition is contingent on so many external factors that even the developers involved would be stupid to throw out delivery dates.  Now all we need is for someone to sneak into Gensler's or HOK's office and find one of their site massing models for the site.  You know an intern spent their summer on one...... 

 

 

This. 2017 is going to be a big year where we get a lot of news on these kinds of projects since next year is when they will supposedly have the alignment set and ready to bid and move forward. They did say that they were going to do the downtown section first and would start 2017 or 2018 if I remember correctly.

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CC has the advantage of being an an already affluent area next to nice roads and is on two major highways.

this site is in the hood with crappy roads, limited access, to freeways, no bus service to speak of, and may or may not still have an active rail line or two next to it.

 

They way want to wait for outside infrastructure improvements first.

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1 hour ago, monarch said:

Keep-Calm-Its-the-Silly-Season.png

^^^ what on earth is with this EAST RIVER moniker?  "river?" a mile away from downtown houston is simply ridiculous!  what not just go with BAYOU EAST?

silly season indeed......

 

Admittedly i dont understand the "east river" moniker either. A ) it's not a "river". b ) it sounds too much like an NYC rip off.

 

2 hours ago, EllenOlenska said:

...He's more robot than human now....

But more on the subject of KBR. Well, tangentially related to KBR. I was under the layman's impression the realignment would 1) double up the roads along where 69 is, thus further obstructing the KBR site, and was 2) not a done deal? Anyone?

 

True. Last I heard the realignment was still up in the air, though it seemed like txdot was leaning heavily towards the realignment. I'm not sure "obstruction" would be much of an issue though?

On a somewhat related side note, I had mentioned in the past that I hoped whoever developed this property would implement some sort of bayou transportation connecting the site with Allens Landing/downtown. They could be a midpoint stop between Allens Landing and the proposed Maritime museum at the turning basin.

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3 hours ago, monarch said:

Keep-Calm-Its-the-Silly-Season.png

^^^ what on earth is with this EAST RIVER moniker?  "river?" a mile away from downtown houston is simply ridiculous!  what not just go with BAYOU EAST?

silly season indeed......

I agree. It is unimaginative to be always imitating NYC places ( midtown,uptown,avenida de las Americas etc which are at least tolerable) but now to extend this illusion to renaming a bayou after one of their rivers. This is too much. Even in an ad. Are we going to rename the Astros "Houston Yankees Jr" ?

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11 minutes ago, Twinsanity02 said:

I agree. It is unimaginative to be always imitating NYC places ( midtown,uptown,avenida de las Americas etc which are at least tolerable) but now to extend this illusion to renaming a bayou after one of their rivers. This is too much. Even in an ad. Are we going to rename the Astros "Houston Yankees Jr" ?

 

Oh for the love of god, get hold of yourself.  Nobody is renaming the bayou.

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6 hours ago, Triton said:

Thank God they didn't explain to us what "east" meant. I think they're concerned people are going to ask "Why use River instead of Bayou?" Think East River just sounds more marketable than East Bayou.

 

They may think that there are people who are not aware that bayous are rivers.  And judging by the reaction of some on this board, they are apparently correct.

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I hope to God you are correct. With this renaming of everything in the last 20 years to sound like New York Junior I wouldn't be so sure. Just look at how many places have been given illusionary New York names. In addition to the previous list East side is now called "Eado" or something similar. It all lacks originality.

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  • Highrise Tower changed the title to East River: KBR Site Puchased by Midway

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