East River: Mixed-Use Development By Midway

[samagon]

On 4/26/2019 at 11:11 AM, intencity77 said:

 

Large, yes. Transformative and forward thinking, I think not.  Developments like The Woodlands or Kingwood only furthered sprawl, they are the antithesis of the “forward thinking” projects I believe Arche_757 was referring too.  

 

for their time, they were transformative. sharpstown was another development that happened even earlier that was transformative.

 

these are all master planned communities, they are all iterations of previous MPC, but they were all transformations of the previous. sharpstown added a mall to the suburban MPC, kingwood put the MPC in some trees and added a lot of outdoor activity possibilities, woodlands added some serious outdoor event areas, even gondolas if I am remembering right.

 

these days, we still get master planned communities, we just call them 'city center' instead of suburbs. they are far more dense, but still are iterations of the previous MPCs, and actually the MPC developers use market research to know what people want. in the 60s, 70s, and 80s it was suburban sprawl. in the 00s and 10s it's density closer in.

 

On 5/3/2019 at 8:18 AM, Texasota said:

... gondolas are on neither rails nor water...

 

if gondolas don't go in the water, then what is this hamster driving?

 

[Angostura]

21 hours ago, samagon said:

 

these days, we still get master planned communities, we just call them 'city center' instead of suburbs. they are far more dense, but still are iterations of the previous MPCs, and actually the MPC developers use market research to know what people want. in the 60s, 70s, and 80s it was suburban sprawl. in the 00s and 10s it's density closer in.

 

 

Yes, but these developments (East River, City Centre, Woodlands Town Center, etc.) are closer to traditional development patterns that pre-date the automobile: self-contained dense, walkable places. 

 

When you drive around Europe (and other places developed prior to the 19th c.), you mostly see really dense towns and villages, surrounded by very low-density uses (farms, vineyards, forests, mountains, etc.). Here's Siena, in Italy:

 

 

All mid-rise mixed use surrounded by (basically) farmland. 

 

The places people tend to like to visit are either very high-density (be they big bustling cities or small Italian hill towns) or very low-density (mountains, forests, vineyards, islands), whereas our suburbs tend to be somewhere in that mushy middle no one really finds beautiful. (No one shoots their engagement photos in the suburbs.) Maybe developers have started to figure this out.

 

[H-Town Man]

1 hour ago, Angostura said:

 

The places people tend to like to visit are either very high-density (be they big bustling cities or small Italian hill towns) or very low-density (mountains, forests, vineyards, islands), whereas our suburbs tend to be somewhere in that mushy middle no one really finds beautiful. (No one shoots their engagement photos in the suburbs.) Maybe developers have started to figure this out.

 

 

It is true (and nice picture) that these are the places most people like to visit, but the places most people like to live (including Europeans, when they can afford to and govt. restrictions permit) are something more like our suburbs: a detached dwelling on a piece of land with a place to put a car or two. In Siena, most people live in a flat of under 1,000 SF on a narrow, noisy street with no green in sight and no place for a car. If a relative from out of town comes to visit and wants to drive a car, they must park it on a narrow, steep road outside the city walls and hike in (I've done it). Kind of hard to visit the grandparents with the baby. It would take some remarkable social engineering to force Houstonians other than young singles into this lifestyle.

 

I must also quibble about the engagement photos; in Houston, everybody's favorite spot for engagement or wedding photos is Broadacres, which would technically be considered a suburb. Time and preservation makes even suburbs look beautiful.

 

[Angostura]

On 5/7/2019 at 12:58 PM, H-Town Man said:

 

It is true (and nice picture) that these are the places most people like to visit, but the places most people like to live (including Europeans, when they can afford to and govt. restrictions permit) are something more like our suburbs: a detached dwelling on a piece of land with a place to put a car or two. In Siena, most people live in a flat of under 1,000 SF on a narrow, noisy street with no green in sight and no place for a car. If a relative from out of town comes to visit and wants to drive a car, they must park it on a narrow, steep road outside the city walls and hike in (I've done it). Kind of hard to visit the grandparents with the baby. It would take some remarkable social engineering to force Houstonians other than young singles into this lifestyle.

 

 

 

Last I checked, square footage in European city centers was still a lot more expensive than square footage in suburban areas. 

 

That said, you can do car-compatible without doing car-centric. And if a place isn't car-centric, you can get away without needing a place for a car. And it's perfectly possible to get around with a baby without a car. I know because I've done it. My son's first car ride was coming home from the hospital. His second was 7 months later to go the airport for our flight to Houston.

 

Anyway, not saying that we should re-make Houston into Siena. But it's nice to see at least some developers re-discovering traditional forms of urbanism.

[arche_757]

Hindsight tells us a little bit more open land would be very good... just say’n

[H-Town Man]

8 hours ago, Angostura said:

 

 

Last I checked, square footage in European city centers was still a lot more expensive than square footage in suburban areas. 

 

That said, you can do car-compatible without doing car-centric. And if a place isn't car-centric, you can get away without needing a place for a car. And it's perfectly possible to get around with a baby without a car. I know because I've done it. My son's first car ride was coming home from the hospital. His second was 7 months later to go the airport for our flight to Houston.

 

Anyway, not saying that we should re-make Houston into Siena. But it's nice to see at least some developers re-discovering traditional forms of urbanism.

 

The logic does not work to say "Square footage costs are higher in city centers, therefore more people must want to live in city centers." Square footage costs are higher on beaches than inland, but that does not mean most people want to live on a beach. It just means the available supply is lower. City centers are always expensive because only a limited supply of units can be at the center. It's a matter of geometry; there are more points on the edge of a circle than at its center.

 

I never said it wasn't possible to get around with a baby without a car. I said it was difficult to visit the grandparents if they live in Siena. Not impossible - difficult. Harder to keep the baby asleep. Much harder to bring all the stuff. I know, I know - don't bring all the stuff! Be minimalist! But it's harder, and most people don't want those difficulties.

 

I'm one of the bigger advocates of urbanism on here, despite my view that most people want a suburban living pattern. If 70% of people want suburban and 30% want urban and your city is 98% suburban, you need more urban.

 

[Angostura]

6 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I'm one of the bigger advocates of urbanism on here, despite my view that most people want a suburban living pattern. If 70% of people want suburban and 30% want urban and your city is 98% suburban, you need more urban.

 

 

You're probably right (revealed preference, etc. etc.), but I wonder if it's just a reflection of what's available. I mean, do people really love 3-story townhouses with the 3rd BR on the ground floor, or do people buy them because that's the only layout anyone builds? I've found living without a car (albeit not in Houston) to be great, and it's especially easy now that there's ridesharing and microtransport available, but not many people get an opportunity to experience it.

 

People moved to the suburbs in the 20th century because cities were loud, filthy and dangerous (they've since gotten better), and stayed there because city schools got terrible. Currently, if you want decent schools and enough living space for a family on a middle class income, I'm afraid you don't have a lot of choice with respect to lifestyle. 

 

[Timoric]

-

Edited July 12, 2019 by Timoric

[H-Town Man]

1 hour ago, Timoric said:

My family got a 6 month dose of urban living in East Baltimore right next to Johns Hopkins caring for a sick relative - who made a complete recovery by the way - great doctors.

 

We did a Residence Inn for a while but eventually rented in a new wrap style apartment mid-rise with GFR (CVS, Pizza place, and a Kabob joint) across the street from JHP that looks just like alot of the stuff going up in Houston.

 

I have the following observations:

1. It felt exciting and varied - The nice areas are really great - Little Italy is amazing, old churches, nice stuff near the harbor etc

2. The danger is always there so you have to watch your back - some interesting signs on abandoned buildings like "No Shoot Zone!"

3. The people that stayed there - we did it in shifts coming and going - didn't use a car and did walks to shop and exercise knew where not to walk

4. The wrap apartment hallways were pretty claustrophobic and not well labelled, not sure if that is a thing, there was an inner courtyard and a garage in the middle and and outer hallway that contained units, it took me a while to not get lost

5. You can hear the footsteps in the units above but the noise isn't too bad

6. It was fall/winter so the balconies and common areas were pretty much not used, the gym and tv areas were lightly used but it didn't feel too bad

7. The place was pretty new and probably 60-70 percent leased

8. These places are definitely not as good as having a house and people like me with 25 years before retirement would rather get a beach house say in OBX than one of these - as a second property - I have discovered that is a thing - maybe that will change when all the little people raised

 

 

Yeah, you go a few blocks west of Johns Hopkins and that is definitely a "not to walk" area.

 

[bobruss]

Glad to hear your relative recovered. So I notice on your information you are still in Olney Maryland. Is this a permanent move or are you coming back to Houston?

[Timoric]

-

Edited July 12, 2019 by Timoric

[Angostura]

18 hours ago, Timoric said:

 

8. These places are definitely not as good as having a house and people like me with 25 years before retirement would rather get a beach house say in OBX than one of these - as a second property - I have discovered that is a thing - maybe that will change when all the little people raised

 

 

 

Quality can vary widely. I've lived in large buildings (where you can definitely hear your neighbors) and smaller 4 to 20-unit buildings with only one or two apartments per floor. The latter are a LOT better.  Apartments in them can be quite large (1500 to 4000 s.f.) and you might forget you even HAVE neighbors above and below you. Unfortunately not many of those buildings get built any more.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Angostura

[thedistrict84]

Site work underway today. Several flatbed 18-wheelers were lined up on Jensen dropping off large concrete culverts for drainage. It looks like work digging the trenches where they will be placed has started too.

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by thedistrict84

[Texasota]

East End MMD wants to do a streetcar on Clinton. Pending funding of course. 

[j_cuevas713]

21 hours ago, Texasota said:

East End MMD wants to do a streetcar on Clinton. Pending funding of course. 

I live in the East End and they have to be the best management district out of all the neighborhoods in this city. They act quickly, they fix actual needs in the neighborhood, and most importantly THEY LISTEN. They have my full support for a street car given how much they do for my part of town. I remember talking to one of the directors and the plans they have for Telephone Rd and other streets is amazing. They aren't neglecting any part of the East End when it comes to improvements. 

[Mr.Clean19]

On 5/14/2019 at 2:09 PM, Texasota said:

East End MMD wants to do a streetcar on Clinton. Pending funding of course. 

Gondolas 

[cloud713]

On 5/14/2019 at 2:09 PM, Texasota said:

East End MMD wants to do a streetcar on Clinton. Pending funding of course. 

 

Have there actually been any updates about this? I haven’t heard anything since 2012.

[Texasota]

Not that I know of. It would be a pretty big project for East End though and I'm not sure how they'd make it happen financially.

[BeerNut]

Drone overview of the site from a few weeks ago.

 

[Mr.Clean19]

16 hours ago, Texasota said:

Not that I know of. It would be a pretty big project for East End though and I'm not sure how they'd make it happen financially.

Probably a combination of private funds, opportunity zone, affordable housing, TIRZ 23, TIRZ 18, and other city funds. I think that there was an estimate waaay back after the property was purchased from KBR that it would take $1.2 to $1.5 billion to revamp the site 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Mr.Clean19

[Houstonian4Life]

https://www.bisnow.com/houston/news/neighborhood/5-projects-planned-for-eado-and-east-end-98989?&utm_source=outbound_pub_54&utm_campaign=outbound_issue_29053&utm_content=outbound_newsletter1&utm_medium=email

 

There’s some interesting info regarding East River as well as an event on June 4 with developers and investors on the Future of Eado and East End.  

[Texasota]

5 hours ago, Mr.Clean19 said:

Probably a combination of private funds, opportunity zone, affordable housing, TIRZ 23, TIRZ 18, and other city funds. I think that there was an estimate waaay back after the property was purchased from KBR that it would take $1.2 to $1.5 billion to revamp the site 

 

I meant the streetcar. I'm reasonably confident that Midway will make this project work.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Texasota

[Timoric]

-

 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Timoric

[HoustonMidtown]

They are putting this drainage all along the bayou

 

Untitled by Houston Midtown, on Flickr

[I'm Not a Robot]

http://eastriverhtx.com/

 

site has been updated with two brochures

 

https://midwaycompanies.sharepoint.com/sites/Marketing/East River/Forms/AllItems.aspx?id=%2Fsites%2FMarketing%2FEast River%2FCollateral%2FBrochures%2FLeasing%2FOffice%2F190319 EastRiver - Office - CES Folder%2F190319 EastRiver - Office Spreads - CES.pdf&parent=%2Fsites%2FMarketing%2FEast River%2FCollateral%2FBrochures%2FLeasing%2FOffice%2F190319 EastRiver - Office - CES Folder&p=true&cid=9320239a-9036-4f2f-8242-bf35b47ee0be

 

https://midwaycompanies.sharepoint.com/sites/Marketing/East River/Forms/AllItems.aspx?id=%2Fsites%2FMarketing%2FEast River%2FCollateral%2FBrochures%2FLeasing%2FRetail%2F190424 East River Retail - CES Folder%2F190424 East River Retail Spreads - CES.pdf&parent=%2Fsites%2FMarketing%2FEast River%2FCollateral%2FBrochures%2FLeasing%2FRetail%2F190424 East River Retail - CES Folder&p=true&cid=7e5b89a3-aa12-4c86-82ed-217a510eca4d

Edited May 22, 2019 by I'm Not a Robot

[Response]

It's like Houston is being reborn or something. Never thought I'd live to see the day that something this cool would be built east of downtown. Loving it big time.

[Luminare]

10 minutes ago, Response said:

It's like Houston is being reborn or something. Never thought I'd live to see the day that something this cool would be built east of downtown. Loving it big time.

 

I think we have been discussing this on multiple threads, but its been fun seeing this sort of "free-market" urbanism take shape. It certainly hasn't been perfect, and we have had to really be patient while all these different developers tweak and reimagine various urban formulas, but it seems that from here on out things are going to start getting better and more sophisticated like this. Really cool stuff. Again Houston's formula for development can be frustrating, but its also really interesting and unique.

[I'm Not a Robot]

I'm still holding out hope that the movie theater is the first Alamo Drafthouse inside the loop. The Maritime Museum originally planned to break ground in mid 2018 and open in late 2019, so maybe that gives us a timeline of the first phase? With groundbreaking underway maybe we can see some stuff begin to open in late 2020 or early 2021. That's much earlier than I had originally expected. 

[Luminare]

18 minutes ago, CrockpotandGravel said:

Three things that stood out to me from the proposed renderings of the East River development from Midway, Houston:


1. This apartment building called East River or Easter River One Place, and the surrounding town homes (neither are not marked on the phase 1 map)





2. The beautiful design of the Maritime Museum





3.


 

 

3. Profit?

[Mr.Clean19]

This view kind of interests me because they didnt simulate the new 45 reroute. They also showed development on the Pinto Realty lots that will be taken over by the 45 re-route.

 

https://imgur.com/eIoYjh4