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East River: KBR Site Puchased by Midway

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1 hour ago, Timoric said:

The GDPs are very similar DC and Houston. They can change based on Houston's oil price as well. Sometimes Houston places 4th other times it drops down several slots.

 

GDP per capita is more meaningful, and even that is skewed by a large population of people who do not participate in the DC economy. You have to look at land values, cost of living, median house price, office rent, etc.

 

 

Edited by H-Town Man

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4 hours ago, AnTonY said:


If you are referring to car-centricness, then that will depend very much on how much the people here truly love their cars. Do people here truly like their vehicles and having to use them to go anywhere? Or do they only want them in efforts to compensate for the environment (i.e. need for amenities, peer pressure, etc)?

 

I am not talking about the whole city shifting from a car-based to a walking lifestyle. I am talking about a walking lifestyle taking root somewhere in our city. I'm thinking that between downtown, midtown, EaDo, maybe the Museum District and eventually Washington Avenue, we can have areas where it's possible to do most things without a car. 

 

Chicago, Boston, D.C., Philadelphia, San Francisco, perhaps New Orleans are good examples of hybrid cities where you have a walkable city within a predominantly car-based city. New York being America's one predominantly walking-based city.

 

Edited by H-Town Man
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1 hour ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I am not talking about the whole city shifting from a car-based to a walking lifestyle. I am talking about a walking lifestyle taking root somewhere in our city. I'm thinking that between downtown, midtown, EaDo, maybe the Museum District and eventually Washington Avenue, we can have areas where it's possible to do most things without a car. 

 

Chicago, Boston, D.C., Philadelphia, perhaps New Orleans are good examples of hybrid cities where you have a walkable city within a predominantly car-based city. New York being America's one predominantly walking-based city.

 

I think parts of midtown, museum district, and  rice village area are there, uptown has a ways to go. When I stroll through uptown there are very few pedestrians which is surprising considering all the high rises in the area. If the museum district would get ground level retail and restaurants like the northwest area of midtown it would be almost European in ambiance.

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2 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I am not talking about the whole city shifting from a car-based to a walking lifestyle. I am talking about a walking lifestyle taking root somewhere in our city. I'm thinking that between downtown, midtown, EaDo, maybe the Museum District and eventually Washington Avenue, we can have areas where it's possible to do most things without a car. 

 

Chicago, Boston, D.C., Philadelphia, perhaps New Orleans are good examples of hybrid cities where you have a walkable city within a predominantly car-based city. New York being America's one predominantly walking-based city.

 

 

Partly true. The best we can do, as some other try to do, is make it that kind of lifestyle more accessible to many different kinds of people. Thats the best we can try to produce. Everyone is different and everyone has different needs. If you want to have a walkable lifestyle then you have to first and foremost make that a personal priority. I loved my walkable lifestyle while I was in Germany, and when I moved back here I was determined to make that a priority and act on it. For the past year I have methodically constructed a life where I get to live that walkable lifestyle. I live in Montrose, and work at a firm that is 4 blocks from where I live and I live 4 blocks where a bunch of good restaurants and bars are. I have an HEB close by. I literally walk everywhere I go. I maybe drive my car once a month (in mileage I probably drive 100-200 miles per month where before in the burbs I would drive way more). There are plenty of instances where one can have that life in this city, but you have to make it your own and you have to make it a priority. In cities like Berlin, or other places I was at in Germany, yeah it was easier, and more places to do so, but you still had to construct a life where you could live that lifestyle. Its a two-way street and we sometimes miss that. We also miss the fact that....some people will always love the driving life style and thats fine with me. My gripe has always been that we only design and cater to one lifestyle. Anyway, point being you can do it in this city, but you have to want it. If you want it then make it happen. 

Edited by Luminare
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1 hour ago, Luminare said:

 

Partly true. The best we can do, as some other try to do, is make it that kind of lifestyle more accessible to many different kinds of people. Thats the best we can try to produce. Everyone is different and everyone has different needs. If you want to have a walkable lifestyle then you have to first and foremost make that a personal priority. I loved my walkable lifestyle while I was in Germany, and when I moved back here I was determined to make that a priority and act on it. For the past year I have methodically constructed a life where I get to live that walkable lifestyle. I live in Montrose, and work at a firm that is 4 blocks from where I live and I live 4 blocks where a bunch of good restaurants and bars are. I have an HEB close by. I literally walk everywhere I go. I maybe drive my car once a month (in mileage I probably drive 100-200 miles per month where before in the burbs I would drive way more). There are plenty of instances where one can have that life in this city, but you have to make it your own and you have to make it a priority. In cities like Berlin, or other places I was at in Germany, yeah it was easier, and more places to do so, but you still had to construct a life where you could live that lifestyle. Its a two-way street and we sometimes miss that. We also miss the fact that....some people will always love the driving life style and thats fine with me. My gripe has always been that we only design and cater to one lifestyle. Anyway, point being you can do it in this city, but you have to want it. If you want it then make it happen. 

 

Well yeah, it's possible in lots of places in Houston. People in Gulfton were walking places back in the 80's, as are some folks in our eastside neighborhoods. When I say "walkable," I mean, "pleasant to walk around." Where life is easy enough on foot that it makes sense to people who aren't determined urban trendsetters. This requires good sidewalks, residences and buildings that are congenial to pedestrian life, abundant shade whether from trees or awnings, most things you need within a 10 block radius (grocer, pharmacy, basic dry goods, some restaurants, laundromat, florist, transit stop, maybe hardware), mixture of uses and fine-grained development to keep it interesting, things to slow down and limit the intrusion of cars (2-3 lane 30 mph max streets, parallel parking as buffer, stops at every intersection), and last but not least, other people walking.

 

Edited by H-Town Man
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@Twinsanity02

It's actually sorting itself out. The types of people that would choose areas in the MSA like Sugar Land and The Woodlands likely wouldn't pick inner city Houston, or vice-versa. And with those large suburbs getting more and more self-contained (i.e. with their own employment centers, town-squares, etc), their auto-centricness will have less and less influence on Houston's development.

 

@H-Town Man

My quote was actually directed at the part where you said that the pedestrian lifestyle in Houston would look "very different" from the "by-the-book" urban cities.

 

@Timoric

When I think of walkable subtropical cities, I think of all those dense mega-cities springing up in Asia.

 

 

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9 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I am not talking about the whole city shifting from a car-based to a walking lifestyle. I am talking about a walking lifestyle taking root somewhere in our city. I'm thinking that between downtown, midtown, EaDo, maybe the Museum District and eventually Washington Avenue, we can have areas where it's possible to do most things without a car. 

 

Chicago, Boston, D.C., Philadelphia, San Francisco, perhaps New Orleans are good examples of hybrid cities where you have a walkable city within a predominantly car-based city. New York being America's one predominantly walking-based city.

 

Just wanted to add an anecdote on the ability of Houston downtown or east side residence to be car-less. One of the guys I work with (work downtown) lives in The Rice and he doesn't own a car. He gets his groceries delivered, walks most places and ubers anywhere outside downtown he needs to go. So its possible in H-Town today.

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On 3/15/2019 at 1:01 PM, AnTonY said:


If you are referring to car-centricness, then that will depend very much on how much the people here truly love their cars. Do people here truly like their vehicles and having to use them to go anywhere? Or do they only want them in efforts to compensate for the environment (i.e. need for amenities, peer pressure, etc)?

 

There ARE people who love cars in and of themselves. But my personal experience, and that of most of the people I've talked to that live in a place where not having a car is a feasible lifestyle, is that you don't really miss it. 

 

First off, any city in which living without a car is feasible is probably dense enough that getting around in a car is kind of a pain, at least during certain times a day, and being able to park near where you're going is neither easy nor cheap (let alone free). Second, it's nice to have the extra money in your bank account rather than sunk into a depreciating asset. You never have to worry about whether to have that extra glass of wine at dinner. You'll never get a speeding ticket, and when you ARE in a car (uber/taxi/etc.) you can use your phone to your heart's content. And while having a car can sometimes save you some time getting places, you never have to spend time pumping gas, washing/cleaning the car, changing oil, getting an annual inspection, etc.

 

Spending more time on the other side of the windshield also gives you an acute sense of just how much urban space we've given over to automobiles, even in relatively walkable cities. I would expect cities to gradually give over street space to non-automobile uses (bikes, scooters, walking) as we'll need to be able to move more people in less space than can be accomplished with cars.

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On 3/15/2019 at 11:01 AM, AnTonY said:


If you are referring to car-centricness, then that will depend very much on how much the people here truly love their cars. Do people here truly like their vehicles and having to use them to go anywhere? Or do they only want them in efforts to compensate for the environment (i.e. need for amenities, peer pressure, etc)?

 

I enjoy my car, I enjoy driving my car. Not all the time though.

 

Leaving the car at home provides a different kind of freedom.

 

At the moment, because buses suck, and trains aren't everywhere I am stuck with uber as my alternative to driving... but it is what it is.

 

I do not have to worry about where I am going to park my car when I get to my destination. Are there enough spots? Is some overeager tow truck driver going to decide I'm parked somewhere he thinks I shouldn't be? Is someone going to be an a-hole and smack my car with their car door?

 

Should I buy another drink? Who cares, I'm not driving.

 

Is my car going to be stolen or vandalized? At home in the garage? Not likely.

 

Where did I park my car? Oh yeah, at home. Uber tells me where it's going to pick me up.

 

Not to mention, it's nice to just look out of the side windows every now and again.

 

The most I have to worry about when I'm not driving is being considerate to the Uber driver, and making sure my phone has enough charge when I want to hail the uber.

 

If only there were real alternatives to driving in this town.

Edited by samagon
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@Angostura

@samagon

 

I agree with the sentiments. It's often said that "people love their cars here," but without the opposite experience (especially through visiting a walkable city), there's no way to tell if that love is intrinsic or extrinsic.

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7 hours ago, Timoric said:

 Cars as a service in future - you order an SUV, a convertible, a van based on what you need to do that day and it arrives with precise controls, reduce numbers of cars 25 percent and cars not sitting around unused 23 hours a day

 

I'm somewhat skeptical. By definition, cars as a service (autonomous or not) will necessarily increase vehicle miles traveled (VMT), since they spend a non-zero amount of time moving without a passenger, UNLESS they're accompanied by either changes in behavior (more carpooling, or use mostly as last-mile transportation) or changes in urban planning (higher density, mostly reduced parking).

 

People who live car-free (in cities where you can reasonably live car-free) tend to live most of their lives within walking radius of their home and their workplace, and usually take some kind of transit between the two. Things like scooters and bike-shares increase that radius somewhat, but are mostly used to move within, not between neighborhoods. Someone working downtown and living car-free in, say, EaDo probably wouldn't decide to hit up a restaurant in, say, the Heights unless the restaurant was really good, or that's where their friends (from other parts of town) were meeting up. But in this scenario, there would be 2-3X as many options in EaDo as there are today.

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How far east would you guys wish for Houston to spread? In terms of cohesive urban fabric, I personally can see the city getting at least to present-day Brady's Landing. As time goes on, I'm just growing less and less interested in western/northern areas: it just makes for a scene not much different than Dallas 😜

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South of the bayou, you have real potential to get to Broadway. You already have Lawndale and Eastwood as miniture pockets of REALLY cool homes. Depending on Gus Wortham and Glenbrook, you can find some good value in the area. North of the bayou, you are already seeing the area around East River start to price people out. 5th Ward north of I-10 is going through a a dramatic change and has A LOT of open lots for redevelopment. Its going to take 20+ years for all of this to develop into something but I like the fact that people have planned ahead for it. The east side will hopefully develop better than what we saw out west. 

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I have heard that the industrial complex along the ship channel and the east end, has put a very dirty footprint on many parts of the east end due to manufacturing, shipping and lack of pollution controls until recent years. Can anyone who is in the know go into more detail about these issues.

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https://product.costar.com/home/news/shared/82261314

 

Houston Maritime Museum Director Leslie Bowlin said in an interview the museum is currently in talks to relocate to the waterfront space in Midway’s East River project, but nothing has been finalized. The museum is currently operating in an interim space on Canal Street as it pursues a $45 million capital campaign for the groundbreaking of its new Gensler-designed location, Bowlin said.

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I am skeptical about them achieving the funds given the level of interest in Houston's maritime history, which as far as I know is not very high. We are located 48 miles inland and connected to the sea via a heavily engineered bayou. No three-mast ships ever came to Houston. No brass spyglasses turning up in our antique shops. If an overall Houston history museum had a budget of $45 million, or even a third that much, that would make more sense to me.

 

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I share the same concern as H-Town and I am in the Maritime Industry.  Perhaps HMM  expanded their focus to include, Aviation, or Weather/Hurricanes or Rail or...something, it would help.  While there is much maritime history here and the city was built on the bayou because of access to the gulf, Houston doesn't have as much of a sense of it's Maritime Heritage as, many other Port Cities.  Perhaps the existence and future programing will help this.  I hope that it does.  I would love to see a great museum as part of EAST RIVER.  

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16 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

I am skeptical about them achieving the funds given the level of interest in Houston's maritime history, which as far as I know is not very high. We are located 48 miles inland and connected to the sea via a heavily engineered bayou. No three-mast ships ever came to Houston. No brass spyglasses turning up in our antique shops. If an overall Houston history museum had a budget of $45 million, or even a third that much, that would make more sense to me.

 

 

Same here. Probably makes more sense if they were a museum purely dedicated to Buffalo Bayou Industry as a whole. That would cast a wider net for all industries that surround the bayou to give money as it would be good outreach into the community / advertise their continued efforts on the bayou. Then again, them getting this far gives me the impression that there has to be something deeply buried in terms of our maritime history that they want to be resurfaced and focused on. Yeah we haven't had three-mast ships coming into the bayou, but the ship channel/bayou has seen more modern vessels and we have one of the largest ports in the nation today even bigger than cities that boast a long maritime history.

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21 hours ago, Naviguessor said:

I share the same concern as H-Town and I am in the Maritime Industry.  Perhaps HMM  expanded their focus to include, Aviation, or Weather/Hurricanes or Rail or...something, it would help.  While there is much maritime history here and the city was built on the bayou because of access to the gulf, Houston doesn't have as much of a sense of it's Maritime Heritage as, many other Port Cities.  Perhaps the existence and future programing will help this.  I hope that it does.  I would love to see a great museum as part of EAST RIVER.  

 

 

This sounds a lot like a museum in Seattle. The Museum of History and Industry. It focuses on a wide range of rolling exhibits from Seattle industry from lumber mills to Twin Peaks. One of the coolest museums I've visited before and I'd love to see something like that done here one day. 

 

https://mohai.org/

 

Edited by I'm Not a Robot
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13 minutes ago, I'm Not a Robot said:

 

 

This sounds a lot like a museum in Seattle. The Museum of History and Industry. It focuses on a wide range of rolling exhibits from Seattle industry from lumber mills to Twin Peaks. One of the coolest museums I've visited before and I'd love to see something like that done here one day. 

 

https://mohai.org/

 

 

I have not seen the museum in Seattle, but your description reminds me of the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago, which highlights Chicago's own history but does not limit itself to that. Of course, my idea has long been a Museum of Modern Technology in the Astrodome, which would be a wide-ranging science and tech museum with aviation and aerospace exhibits, as well as a focus on Houston's contributions to this history.

 

It is possible this maritime museum is not specifically focused on Houston but just calls itself the Houston Maritime Museum because it is located in Houston. Has anyone been to it?

 

 

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41 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I have not seen the museum in Seattle, but your description reminds me of the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago, which highlights Chicago's own history but does not limit itself to that. Of course, my idea has long been a Museum of Modern Technology in the Astrodome, which would be a wide-ranging science and tech museum with aviation and aerospace exhibits, as well as a focus on Houston's contributions to this history.

 

It is possible this maritime museum is not specifically focused on Houston but just calls itself the Houston Maritime Museum because it is located in Houston. Has anyone been to it?

 

 

 

One, The Astrodome idea is fantastic

 

Two, maybe we should think of it more like how every city has a Holocaust Museum. In this case its a museum to a particular industry. Maybe not specifically to Houston, but to maritime industry in general and how it has affected Houston.

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I have been to HMM, a few times in the past and attended a few lectures.  When I was there (last about 8 years ago), it was focused on Houston but not limited to it.  Lots of models, a good Maritime Library, artifacts, donated exhibits from Oil and Drilling companies, etc...But, all in always what seemed to be a temporary home, limited on space.  Not much in the way of interactive exhibits, which I am sure would be part of a larger and permanent building. 

 

There is a lot to be said for the Maritime community in Houston.  Several Large Tanker companies and Barge companies have HQ's here, we are the largest Breakbulk Port in the country, #1 in foreign tonnage and there more vessel arrivals and departures daily than any other US port.  The American Bureau of Shipping (ABS), the United States' Classification Society, is based here. 

 

I imagine that there would be no shortage of Corporate Sponsorship with an ambitious and professional Museum plan.  I also think that acquiring some historic vessels (of limited size)that could be placed on the grounds would be possible, since the bayou is deep and navigable up to the East River Location.   

 

This all being said...and expanded mission still seems as though the concept would be more viable and sustainable.  Some good ideas have been discussed on this forum.   

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13 minutes ago, Naviguessor said:

I have been to HMM, a few times in the past and attended a few lectures.  When I was there (last about 8 years ago), it was focused on Houston but not limited to it.  Lots of models, a good Maritime Library, artifacts, donated exhibits from Oil and Drilling companies, etc...But, all in always what seemed to be a temporary home, limited on space.  Not much in the way of interactive exhibits, which I am sure would be part of a larger and permanent building. 

 

There is a lot to be said for the Maritime community in Houston.  Several Large Tanker companies and Barge companies have HQ's here, we are the largest Breakbulk Port in the country, #1 in foreign tonnage and there more vessel arrivals and departures daily than any other US port.  The American Bureau of Shipping (ABS), the United States' Classification Society, is based here. 

 

I imagine that there would be no shortage of Corporate Sponsorship with an ambitious and professional Museum plan.  I also think that acquiring some historic vessels (of limited size)that could be placed on the grounds would be possible, since the bayou is deep and navigable up to the East River Location.   

 

This all being said...and expanded mission still seems as though the concept would be more viable and sustainable.  Some good ideas have been discussed on this forum.   

 

Don't forget we have one of the largest Maritime schools in the country in A&M Galveston. I wouldn't be surprised if A&M helped sponsor this at some point or did recruitment from this location.

 

I think the site plan for this museum will need some major updating. The building looks great, but if its getting moved to this site its going to have to be tailored a bit for this new location. What would be a great idea is to morph the site a bit to look like a maritime port. Here is an image from a project in China where they did something like this:

 

5O8ng8T.jpg

 

They could do something like this and then dock a bunch of ships.

 

Would be cool if East River really embraced the bayou as a whole in this way. Where there are multiple moments where the city interacts with the waterway. We have very very few moments like these. This Museum and this developments are opportunities for this city to really embrace the Bayou

Edited by Luminare
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Be assured that I didn't forget about Texas A&M at Galveston...I am a graduate.   Certainly TAMUG would contribute and enjoy some benefits from HHM.  But, I didn't want to take ownership away from Galveston.  Also, San Jacinto College has an excellent new facility in La Porte.   There is a huge number of Mariners and Maritime professional who live in Houston.  I would even say that it is probably among the largest regional concentrations of Mariners anywhere in the country.  Again, a good museum, and the maritime community would be mutually enhanced.  It is just a pity that you can't even see the port from this location. 

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Wow, wild idea, but I wonder if they could somehow bring a batteship or something into this portion of the bayou to dock up against the banks. It is definitely wide enough. They would have to dis-assemble portions to fit under bridgest but it would definitely be a cool addition. 

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2 minutes ago, Mr.Clean19 said:

Wow, wild idea, but I wonder if they could somehow bring a batteship or something into this portion of the bayou to dock up against the banks. It is definitely wide enough. They would have to dis-assemble portions to fit under bridgest but it would definitely be a cool addition. 

 

I don't think it is deep enough though. And we have the Battleship Texas out by the San Jacinto monument, which is an appropriate location for it.

 

I like the idea of docking a boat here for tourism, but I'm not sure what we could get here that could handle the shallow water, and aren't there some bridges in the way? The one boat that is historically appropriate and also interesting to tourists would be a riverboat steamer. Of course the M/V Sam Houston has been the Port of Houston's public tour vessel since 1958 (I just read on their website). There might be some elbowing from the other boat tours in the area. Isn't the BBP trying to make this area canoe-friendly?

 

 

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On 3/6/2016 at 12:31 PM, Timoric said:

Wonder if the technology will ever get rid of the Stinkadena smell. My old trumpet teacher was from Pasadena, California and told a story of driving to Pasadena when he got here and well...you can figure what he thought.

So do you  still play your trumpet? 

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On 3/6/2016 at 12:31 PM, Timoric said:

Wonder if the technology will ever get rid of the Stinkadena smell. My old trumpet teacher was from Pasadena, California and told a story of driving to Pasadena when he got here and well...you can figure what he thought.

 

The fact that he drove to Pasadena was made possible by Pasadena and the gasoline that it produces. Tell him next time he can walk to Pasadena. 

 

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You should get it out if you still have it and let them work on their embrouchures. 

It's a great instrument.

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1 hour ago, Mr.Clean19 said:

Wow, wild idea, but I wonder if they could somehow bring a batteship or something into this portion of the bayou to dock up against the banks. It is definitely wide enough. They would have to dis-assemble portions to fit under bridgest but it would definitely be a cool addition. 

It sure would be something to get the Battleship Texas moved here. Hasn't it been in the works for a good number of years to potentially get it dry docked? Having it closer to Downtown would be much more of a tourist draw as opposed to out East amongst all of Houston's industrial uses. Aside from the financial expense of getting it to this location, could it even be physically done with its condition? 

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Think, Tugboats, Lightships, supply boats, small Coast Guard vessels, River going pushboats, Riverboats, small military vessels…  Anything you might call a 'Ship' could never make it past the turning basin. 

Barges can make it up this far, so anything that you could set on a deck-barge or in a hopper barge and still make it under bridges could be a candidate as well.  Anything permanently  moored in the River/Bayou would be tricky and cause issues during flood events and also leads to expensive maintenance issues for the museum (like USS TEXAS is having).  So, more than likely, any vessels displayed by the museum, at East River, would have to be placed on shore...like at Seawolf Park. 

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5 hours ago, Mr.Clean19 said:

Wow, wild idea, but I wonder if they could somehow bring a batteship or something into this portion of the bayou to dock up against the banks. It is definitely wide enough. They would have to dis-assemble portions to fit under bridgest but it would definitely be a cool addition. 

How about a replica of the Laura, the first steam ship to navigate Buffalo Bayou to Houston in January of 1837?

 

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Several months ago Paul (owner of TNP) showed me the plans. TNP will have a new home within this development. All going well. 

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Word on the street is that these visuals of Section 1 were leaked by a vendor and that Midway did not intend on the public seeing them.... Please disregard the photos and pretend that you did see anything

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31 minutes ago, Luminare said:

 

Who publishes an entire brochure of a major development on Loopnet by accident? I'm a bit skeptical.

 

 

I think they underestimated people's ability to find documents like this without specifically having it labeled under East River. Probably part of their direct to retailers marketing materials but as indicated by their lack of updates on their website and social media, not quite intended for public consumption. They have been mostly silent since the bid for Amazon. Even when they added new renderings, it was simply added into the brochure without any announcement.  I'd imagine they wanted to wait until a few retailers were committed to share this. 

 

Every morning I drive past the lot and there are definitely construction workers moving dirt around. 

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Just now, I'm Not a Robot said:

 

 

I think they underestimated people's ability to find documents like this without specifically having it labeled under East River. Probably part of their direct to retailers marketing materials but as indicated by their lack of updates on their website and social media, not quite intended for public consumption. They have been mostly silent since the bid for Amazon. Even when they added new renderings, it was simply added into the brochure without any announcement.  I'd imagine they wanted to wait until a few retailers were committed to share this. 

 

Every morning I drive past the lot and there are definitely construction workers moving dirt around. 

 

Thats exactly why I'm skepical of the prior post. Boots are on the ground and moving dirt. You aren't moving dirt unless the project is permitted, approved, and out the door. Do accidents happen? Sure. But this notion that nobody is ever competent in these positions, ever, is just wrong, dead wrong. The odds of it being that kind of accident are slim to none. Your line of reasoning is definitely more rational. That they probably wanted to lock down a few more tenants in areas before a grand promotion, but we also haven't had Midway deny the renderings either. Its more likely that this "word on the street" is just someone being a little pissy in a meeting with Midway. With dirt moving lets avoid this speculation telephone game and only let actual sources, that aren't anonymous, make that shift in conversation. That post was the equivalent to yelling fire in a crowded theater.

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